Samsung UN55B7100 VS Panasonic TH-50PZ800U VS Panasonic TC-P50G10 (Fully Calibrated) - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 520 Old 03-21-2009, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bpmurr View Post

Who watches TV from that angle?

I don't know, but mgon154 stated that plasma and lcd viewing angles were now equal, which is incorrect. The picture shows what a current generation lcd looks like off angle.
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post #362 of 520 Old 03-21-2009, 02:29 PM
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My friends don`t worry about it when the OLEDS kick in,in 2012,both lcd and plasmas will be obsolete anyway,so cool it folks.Who would want a chunky plasma then,when you can have a 55" 6mm frame hanging on your wall weighing only 25lbs and using 50watts only.:-)
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post #363 of 520 Old 03-21-2009, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Taskmaxter View Post

So true - I learned this from experience. The in store feeds are terrible at most places.

I never been to a store where the feeds were not the same! rather crappy are not there all the same. use to love my CC and I will miss it =( best dam store as far as feeds go, they looped blu-rays on the major tv's to make a fair comparison, it was so awesome I will miss it.
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post #364 of 520 Old 03-21-2009, 05:47 PM
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Actually my Best Buy has some pretty good feeds going to all the tvs. At least you can make a fair comparison since they are all using the same 1080i/720p source.
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post #365 of 520 Old 03-21-2009, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motogp View Post

obviously you'er not really concerned about everyone's perspective, friends, family, you know the people who love you.

your comments are distastefull to say the least and apparently hold no water at all. good viewing angles, are a must! you no this. and it seems that your putting it out there you have a very nice setup! cool but some people don't have the option to change there setup, but they don't need to change there setup ! all they need is a tv with perfect viewing angles! I mean seriously in today's world it shouldn't be a problem! and it isn't as long as you by the best tv for what you need! example my 92u strictly gaming. my panasonic strictly movies my RCA is to laugh at just by what works.


And this is why I never listen to you, Moto. You have no reading comprehension skills whatsoever.

Now, THINK about it for a sec... I said that if you have a bad setup that forces ppl to view extremely off-angle, that it should be re-thought, i.e. CHANGED.

Here's what you got out of that:

Moto: "obviously you'er not really concerned about everyone's perspective, friends, family, you know the people who love you. your comments are distastefull to say the least and apparently hold no water at all. good viewing angles, are a must!"

If I was not concerned about everyone's perspective, then WHY would I say a bad set-up should be changed? If I didn't think that viewing angles were important, then WHY would I say a bad set-up should be re-thought?

Sorry, not trying to be mean, but.... duhhhhh.

Next time, READ THE POST before responding. And don't tell me I don't care about the ppl who love me. That's a lame cheapshot, at best.

Finally, and for godsakes, it's "You know this", NOT "you no this". And it's "buy", not "by". The 'Hooked on Phonics' kids spell better, yeeesh.
.

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post #366 of 520 Old 03-22-2009, 01:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StinDaWg View Post

I don't know, but mgon154 stated that plasma and lcd viewing angles were now equal, which is incorrect. The picture shows what a current generation lcd looks like off angle.

lol you sound so confident. I'm not stupid at all, I'm looking at them both side by side right now truthfully. If you were here, I know you would agree wiht me, because I can't see any difference right now... maybe I'm blind? I'm talking about the LED's and Plasma's... yes the samsung 6000,7000 have just as good of a viewing angle nuff said. I may be able to take some pictures for you once we're done rearanging. That should give you confidence
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post #367 of 520 Old 03-22-2009, 01:33 AM
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Originally Posted by motogp View Post

I never been to a store where the feeds were not the same! rather crappy are not there all the same. use to love my CC and I will miss it =( best dam store as far as feeds go, they looped blu-rays on the major tv's to make a fair comparison, it was so awesome I will miss it.

That's the feed I use to compare! With 24k HDMI cables. Not monster HDMI certified though.
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post #368 of 520 Old 03-22-2009, 01:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgon154 View Post

lol you sound so confident. I'm not stupid at all, I'm looking at them both side by side right now truthfully. If you were here, I know you would agree wiht me, because I can't see any difference right now... maybe I'm blind? I'm talking about the LED's and Plasma's... yes the samsung 6000,7000 have just as good of a viewing angle nuff said. I may be able to take some pictures for you once we're done rearanging. That should give you confidence

Listen guys whats with the ruddy viewing angle.Who on earth is going to sit in front of the TV at a 160deg angle and look at the bloody screen for god sakes,so who cares,not like you can see alot from the side anyway even if you could,you know what i mean.If perhaps it was a 3d TV that might be a different story lol:-)heheheh ,then you might get to see his back side and not just side:-),from the side.
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post #369 of 520 Old 03-22-2009, 01:51 AM
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Originally Posted by funkyman View Post



Listen guys whats with the ruddy viewing angle.Who on earth is going to sit in front of the TV at a 160deg angle and look at the bloody screen for god sakes,so who cares,not like you can see alot from the side anyway even if you could,you know what i mean.If perhaps it was a 3d TV that might be a different story lol:-)heheheh ,then you might get to see his back side and not just side:-),from the side.

I actually agree with you, and i've said that before. I'm just trying to help someone understand something pretty obvious. Maybe I need my eyes checked? I can't imagine watching any of these at a 178 degree viewing angle, it's just unrealistic. Samsungs have the swivle base, so why care about angles too much. If you have family over, then sit further back... there's no need to be way on the sides unless you're in a showroom with a crowd watching an introduction of some sort.
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post #370 of 520 Old 03-22-2009, 07:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgon154 View Post

lol you sound so confident. I'm not stupid at all, I'm looking at them both side by side right now truthfully. If you were here, I know you would agree wiht me, because I can't see any difference right now... maybe I'm blind? I'm talking about the LED's and Plasma's... yes the samsung 6000,7000 have just as good of a viewing angle nuff said. I may be able to take some pictures for you once we're done rearanging. That should give you confidence

I've had 4 lcds and 4 plasmas over the past few years, spent plenty of time looking at them in stores, and I don't need your opinion to tell me what my eyes see.

You obviously don't know anything about lcds if you think the led sets have a good viewing angle. The Samsung 950 series has some of the poorest viewing angles on a lcd is awhile. This is clearly stated in reviews and from first hand experience.

Blacks look especially bad and washed out from side angles on lcds.

Yes, you must be blind.
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post #371 of 520 Old 03-23-2009, 08:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgon154 View Post

I actually agree with you, and i've said that before. I'm just trying to help someone understand something pretty obvious. Maybe I need my eyes checked? I can't imagine watching any of these at a 178 degree viewing angle, it's just unrealistic. Samsungs have the swivle base, so why care about angles too much. If you have family over, then sit further back... there's no need to be way on the sides unless you're in a showroom with a crowd watching an introduction of some sort.

I went from LCD to Plamsa and said I would never go back to LCD. I sold my pioneer 5080 recently and was looking to get teh 60inch version. I saw the samsung 7100 and thought it looked impressive. with LED, i figured it would retain deep black levels in all lighting conditions. see my review

the bad
I have really flashlight issues on the bottom left hand corner and a slight one onthe bottom left hand corner. Another issue I have is the viewing angle, it seems worse than regular LCDs. If I am not dead center, the picture degrades considerably. Also, motion for movies is great, and with AMP being customizable now I can greatly reduce judder without giving the fake soap opera look. Artifacts are minimal now. But with games, only FPS ones, motion needs help has their is major flicker and motion blur. Blacks are deep, but still flat in comparison to best plasmas. I also see the blacks adjusting when a scene goes from bright to dark, which is distracting. Sometimes in really dark scenes like in Dark knight, the light shuts off too much resulting in black crush. I feel like LED while produces deeper blacks than conventional LCD, is a cheating way to produce deep blacks which like anti judder processing, has its issues.

good
Colors are spot on, picture is highly detailed and picture quality especially in bright scenes looks amazing. Deep blacks for LCD when working right. Compared to my 720p pioneer which was half the price, the LCD has more detail and is sharper, but that is because its 5 inches bigger (55") and 1080p mostly. The Kuro has more contrast and depth when comparing dark scenes.

conclusion
without dissing anyones set, in my eyes, LCDs still have a long way to reach the overall well rounded picture quality that plasmas produce. LED is a flawed technology with more room to improve, but shows promise. If this LCD has significantly better viewing angles, solid uniformity, better motion with video games, and more consistent blacks, I would probably be singing a different tune. In bright scenes this set could hang with the best, but everything else needs some work. At the end of the day, this set has me more excited to get a 60" Kuro.



flashlight issue in bottom right, hard to see in pic


viewing angle comparison with same camera settings. You need to be viewing these pics on a monitor with high contrast ratio to see true difference.

front

side-worse in person


looking good and even better in person




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post #372 of 520 Old 03-23-2009, 09:14 AM
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mrTAPOUT, great pics! The set looks phenomenal, but your pics really make your case. The flashlighting in the lower right corner is terrible, and you're right that the drop off in picture contrast from an angle is quite severe. Regarding flicker and motion blur in games, play around with the amp settings and see if you can't resolve it; you'll probably need to use different settings than you use for watching films.

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post #373 of 520 Old 03-23-2009, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spanbauer View Post

mrTAPOUT, great pics! The set looks phenomenal, but your pics really make your case. The flashlighting in the lower right corner is terrible, and you're right that the drop off in picture contrast from an angle is quite severe. Regarding flicker and motion blur in games, play around with the amp settings and see if you can't resolve it; you'll probably need to use different settings than you use for watching films.

The 46 inch I looked at yesterday had flights like that in the bottom corner as well. Looks like Samsung needs to loosen up on the screws!

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post #374 of 520 Old 03-23-2009, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrTAPOUT View Post

I went from LCD to Plamsa and said I would never go back to LCD. I sold my pioneer 5080 recently and was looking to get teh 60inch version. I saw the samsung 7100 and thought it looked impressive. with LED, i figured it would retain deep black levels in all lighting conditions. see my review

the bad
I have really flashlight issues on the bottom left hand corner and a slight one onthe bottom left hand corner. Another issue I have is the viewing angle, it seems worse than regular LCDs. If I am not dead center, the picture degrades considerably. Also, motion for movies is great, and with AMP being customizable now I can greatly reduce judder without giving the fake soap opera look. Artifacts are minimal now. But with games, only FPS ones, motion needs help has their is major flicker and motion blur. Blacks are deep, but still flat in comparison to best plasmas. I also see the blacks adjusting when a scene goes from bright to dark, which is distracting. Sometimes in really dark scenes like in Dark knight, the light shuts off too much resulting in black crush. I feel like LED while produces deeper blacks than conventional LCD, is a cheating way to produce deep blacks which like anti judder processing, has its issues.

good
Colors are spot on, picture is highly detailed and picture quality especially in bright scenes looks amazing. Deep blacks for LCD when working right. Compared to my 720p pioneer which was half the price, the LCD has more detail and is sharper, but that is because its 5 inches bigger (55") and 1080p mostly. The Kuro has more contrast and depth when comparing dark scenes.

conclusion
without dissing anyones set, in my eyes, LCDs still have a long way to reach the overall well rounded picture quality that plasmas produce. LED is a flawed technology with more room to improve, but shows promise. If this LCD has significantly better viewing angles, solid uniformity, better motion with video games, and more consistent blacks, I would probably be singing a different tune. In bright scenes this set could hang with the best, but everything else needs some work. At the end of the day, this set has me more excited to get a 60" Kuro.



flashlight issue in bottom right, hard to see in pic


viewing angle comparison with same camera settings. You need to be viewing these pics on a monitor with high contrast ratio to see true difference.

front

side-worse in person


looking good and even better in person





I'll trade you straight up for my week old 111FD!

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post #375 of 520 Old 03-23-2009, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by bpmurr View Post

I'll trade you straight up for my week old 111FD!

you are insane my friend. I guarentee you would miss your Kuro as I have since I sold my 5080 and tried out the 7100.
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post #376 of 520 Old 03-23-2009, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrTAPOUT View Post

you are insane my friend. I guarentee you would miss your Kuro as I have since I sold my 5080 and tried out the 7100.

Really? How does the 7100 handle motion compared to the Kuro?
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post #377 of 520 Old 03-23-2009, 10:55 AM
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Thanks TAPOUT, your pics reaffirm the Indy Jones off angle pics that were posted earlier. Blacks get way worse and the whole picture washes out. The flashlighting is also something I could never live with. If the MSRP was less than 2 grand for the 55" I might be able to live with it but not at double that price.





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post #378 of 520 Old 03-23-2009, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrTAPOUT View Post

you are insane my friend. I guarentee you would miss your Kuro as I have since I sold my 5080 and tried out the 7100.

Nah, I miss my 52A650. I'll take the viewing angle trade off for the dirty screen effect of the Pioneer.

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post #379 of 520 Old 03-23-2009, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StinDaWg View Post

Thanks TAPOUT, your pics reaffirm the Indy Jones off angle pics that were posted earlier. Blacks get way worse and the whole picture washes out. The flashlighting is also something I could never live with. If the MSRP was less than 2 grand for the 55" I might be able to live with it but not at double that price.






Who watches their TV from that angle? I could understand if you had to view it that way most of the time. However, if you a straight on most of the time why does it matter?

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post #380 of 520 Old 03-23-2009, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iatacs19 View Post

Really? How does the 7100 handle motion compared to the Kuro?

Well from what I could tell the 7100 I looked at is more blury in motion then the Pioneer but not off by much. I was very impressed by the motion.

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post #381 of 520 Old 03-23-2009, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motogp View Post

bpmurr you'er a ******

Come look at my 111 and you might change your statement.

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post #382 of 520 Old 03-23-2009, 12:07 PM
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why dont you post some pictures of your crappy elite for me.
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post #383 of 520 Old 03-23-2009, 01:43 PM
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That is a pretty big off angle view. You must be either punished or a guest in your own home.
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post #384 of 520 Old 03-23-2009, 02:49 PM
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that is a pretty big off angle view. You must be either punished or a guest in your own home. :d

:d:d:d:d
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post #385 of 520 Old 03-23-2009, 04:11 PM
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Well, It seems that Samsung hasn't learned anything from their 750/850 lines. I wouldn't accept flashlighting like that from a $1k set. So far every 7000 set I have seen reviewed had uneven backlighting and/or flashlighting. Well that does it for me. I will not do any mailorder with this set. Not worth me paying return postage on 10 sets trying to get one which is tollerable.

They want a permium price and they put these together blindly... screw um... I'm sick of waiting for them.
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post #386 of 520 Old 03-23-2009, 04:20 PM
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Hey mrTapout, I'm curious which settings you use to play your 360. I would love to know what you have amp set at as I can't get anything good out of it short of leaving it off.

I have bleeding in all four corners of my set, but it's extremely minimal. Can you really reduce this by loosening the screws on the tv?
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post #387 of 520 Old 03-23-2009, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrTAPOUT View Post

flashlight issue in bottom right, hard to see in pic

I'm sorry, but why is this an issue? As you obviously cranked brightness waay up for that one picture? I can't see a hint of backlight bleed on those other pictures.
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post #388 of 520 Old 03-23-2009, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Italiano86 View Post

I have bleeding in all four corners of my set, but it's extremely minimal. Can you really reduce this by loosening the screws on the tv?

Hi there,

I am from a German AV-forum and would like to ask you, if you could really try loosening the screws at all four corners and observe if this does have any positive effect on the slight bleeding you have noticed with your set.

Since this is the first set of TV's from Samsung built with Edge-LED's in a slim design like this, it could surely be a possibillity that they've simply tightened the screws to much with some of the sets, resulting in the TV's bezel putting too much pressure on the edges of the display.

This could lead to spotlights in the observed areas of the screen and I can remember a few people here in Germany who could reduce slight clouding in the edges on some of the A-Series TV's by just loosening those screws and reducing the bezel's pressure onto the display!

I would highly appreciate if you or someone else could give it a try even if it sounds strange or silly.

Besides that:

What do you guys think could possibly cause this behaviour with some of the sets since the Edge-LED's are not really placed in the edges of the TV, but from top to bottom on the sides? Shouldn't there be a noticeable refulgence along the whole side instead of the corners then? It seems kind of strange to me blaming this on Edge LED's since there are some CCFL-LCD's having the same issue with spotlights and bleeding too!

Regards and thanks for your help in advance, DH
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post #389 of 520 Old 03-23-2009, 08:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motogp View Post

why dont you post some pictures of your crappy elite for me.


Here you go

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...3#post16092563

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post #390 of 520 Old 03-23-2009, 08:45 PM
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Poor Manufacturing and/or design

Some of the cheapest LCD panels out there don't suffer from uneven backlighting and flashlighting . Samsungs last few lines have has nothing but problems in this area. The 650, 750, 850 series (more so on the 850) suffered greatly from this.

Samsung is obviously aware of the problems due to the amount of returns and service calls .

The fact that they still have not addresed / solved this issue in the Luxia line means they simply don't care. I think Samsung can now officially be called the new "Sony"

Quote:
Originally Posted by darkest hour View Post


What do you guys think could possibly cause this behaviour with some of the sets since the Edge-LED's are not really placed in the edges of the TV, but from top to bottom on the sides? Shouldn't there be a noticeable refulgence along the whole side instead of the corners then? It seems kind of strange to me blaming this on Edge LED's since there are some CCFL-LCD's having the same issue with spotlights and bleeding too!

Regards and thanks for your help in advance, DH

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