Official Sony KDL-xxV5100 Thread - Page 11 - AVS Forum
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post #301 of 4672 Old 05-07-2009, 03:42 AM
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Originally Posted by pseudonym View Post

so i updated my 40v5100 and set my settings back to the way they were with my ACE set to off. watched a bit of HD HBO (uverse, component 1080i) with the movie predator playing and while the auto dim wasnt nearly as apparent as it had been in the past, it was still there, just smaller increments. im gonna keep an eye on this.

Just so I understand completely...You're saying that even with ACE off, you still see evidence of auto dimming that is perceptible? I gotta tell you, even with ACE set to low and putting the display through torturous test patterns and program material, I cannot see it. That doesn't mean that it is not there, imo, AD is now functioning as the Sony engineers originally intended.

I'm pretty sure that neither Sony nor anyone on this thread has said it would be completely eliminated, just that it can't be seen with normal viewing. This 'feature' is similar to my XBR2's 'auto iris' and those two features do serve the purpose of achieving fantastic contrast ratios. On the XBR2, it was much more subtle and after a couple of weeks, you don't even notice it.

IMO, I would rather have enough auto dimming that 1) I didn't notice it and 2) It's better than having a super low contrast ratio, which is an issue inherent to LCD technology.

Please let us know the specifics and if you could throw in your picture settings as well, one of us may spot something that is causing you grief.

Best of luck...Will

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post #302 of 4672 Old 05-07-2009, 05:04 AM
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ALL and I mean ALL even mighty samsunbgs Dim and brighten by scene.

The purpose as will said is to enhance and adjust contrast ration to rpovde the highest possible thru scenes.

This is how sets samsung in the real of 3000:1 and this v5100 4000:1 natural contrast ration end up with 50000:1 dynamic contrast ratio.

Thats why its called dynamic. The point is now the scene is always viewable with no missing detail.
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post #303 of 4672 Old 05-07-2009, 05:32 AM
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I was under the impression that dymanic contrast ratios were measured with features like ACE enabled (or whatever the specific company calls their proprietary image enhancements), and that standard contrast ratios were measured without any enhancements on.

Even if there is still dimming after the firmware update, I did not notice it when I displayed a black screen & mouse pointer. The black did not seem to dim, nor did the mouse pointer transition from white to grey (as it does with ACE on).

My Old Setup
...new pics on the way...
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post #304 of 4672 Old 05-07-2009, 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Jamfan16 View Post

I was under the impression that dymanic contrast ratios were measured with features like ACE enabled (or whatever the specific company calls their proprietary image enhancements), and that standard contrast ratios were measured without any enhancements on.

Even if there is still dimming after the firmware update, I did not notice it when I displayed a black screen & mouse pointer. The black did not seem to dim, nor did the mouse pointer transition from white to grey (as it does with ACE on).


hmm to tell ya the truth I didn't really think of that. I dont watch any LCD i have had without those features on in some level. The black is way way to low for me. I wont, no no I Cant watch a set with the black level that light

In any case that just means 2 things. One if your watching a sammy and a sony without the auto contrast in effect than the sony is 25 percent better black level as thier natural contrast level is 1000 better

And if you are watching with these auto contrast on its a non issue as there is no scene light or dark where you cannot see ALL of the intended scene because of a dimming issue.
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post #305 of 4672 Old 05-07-2009, 05:37 PM
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Watching the price of this set, it dawned on me. Getting this set at $1800 will be impossible once word of the firmware update spreads...

So here we are guys, I have a day off tomorrow and will be heading to Best Buy to check it out one more time. Questions:

1. Is the Motionflow setting customizeable at all? Or is it the standard low medium high?

2. How are the aesthetics? Would someone mind sharing pictures?

3. How are the blacks? I returned a 46B550 (70,000:1 dynamic) and was just utterly blown away by its black level...is the V5100 good in the black department?

4. I read a post earlier about this set struggling with 5.1 through a receiver? Does anybody have it hooked up to a 5.1 system/receiver via HDMI? I just want it to work lol.

5. For serialmike, SD Noise? I'm familiar with that (my old Westinghouse TX-42F430S that this set is replacing had it sometimes) I'm curious if anybody else has noticed it.

6. Glossy or matte screen?

I'd be going after the 52". Hopefully someone can enlighten.
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post #306 of 4672 Old 05-07-2009, 05:43 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serialmike View Post

hmm to tell ya the truth I didn't really think of that. I dont watch any LCD i have had without those features on in some level. The black is way way to low for me. I wont, no no I Cant watch a set with the black level that light [IMG]http://www.entertainment-place.info/smile/img/2659/*************************[/IMG]

I completely agree with you.
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post #307 of 4672 Old 05-07-2009, 05:53 PM
 
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Originally Posted by TLS49 View Post

Watching the price of this set, it dawned on me. Getting this set at $1800 will be impossible once word of the firmware update spreads...

So here we are guys, I have a day off tomorrow and will be heading to Best Buy to check it out one more time. Questions:

1. Is the Motionflow setting customizeable at all? Or is it the standard low medium high?

2. How are the aesthetics? Would someone mind sharing pictures?

3. How are the blacks? I returned a 46B550 (70,000:1 dynamic) and was just utterly blown away by its black level...is the V5100 good in the black department?

4. I read a post earlier about this set struggling with 5.1 through a receiver? Does anybody have it hooked up to a 5.1 system/receiver via HDMI? I just want it to work lol.

5. For serialmike, SD Noise? I'm familiar with that (my old Westinghouse TX-42F430S that this set is replacing had it sometimes) I'm curious if anybody else has noticed it.

6. Glossy or matte screen?

I'd be going after the 52". Hopefully someone can enlighten.


1) MotionFlow has the option of being turned off, to low, medium, or high.
2) It looks alright - I think it looks nicer than the 08' models.
3) The black levels are really good on these Sony tv's
4) No Idea
5) Hmmm... I guess you'll expect some noise on standard definition... maybe the Noise Reduction could help combat that issue for SD.
6) Semi-matte
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post #308 of 4672 Old 05-07-2009, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by bk.secret23 View Post

1) MotionFlow has the option of being turned off, to low, medium, or high.
2) It looks alright - I think it looks nicer than the 08' models.
3) The black levels are really good on these Sony tv's
4) No Idea
5) Hmmm... I guess you'll expect some noise on standard definition... maybe the Noise Reduction could help combat that issue for SD.
6) Semi-matte

Very nice I appreciate the quick response.
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post #309 of 4672 Old 05-07-2009, 08:11 PM
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Wasnt me that said noise in SD. But at least on Fios the only noise there is, Is in the original signal.

On a channel with noise I can go to my little girls CRT TV's and see the same lousy image Mind you this is extremely rare on Fios.

There is no noise that I can speak of on a SD or any image. This is by FAR the cleanest Image I have seen on any set I have ever owned.

Look back a few posts. I have owned some of the highest picture quality sets of the last few years and this set shreds em. SHREDS EM.
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post #310 of 4672 Old 05-08-2009, 05:28 AM
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Originally Posted by serialmike View Post

Wasnt me that said noise in SD. But at least on Fios the only noise there is, Is in the original signal.

On a channel with noise I can go to my little girls CRT TV's and see the same lousy image Mind you this is extremely rare on Fios.

There is no noise that I can speak of on a SD or any image. This is by FAR the cleanest Image I have seen on any set I have ever owned.

Look back a few posts. I have owned some of the highest picture quality sets of the last few years and this set shreds em. SHREDS EM.

I like to hear it. I was worried about an 8 bit panel until I realized I don't know what an 8 bit panel is...and that the Westinghouse I had and loved for 2 years probably had all of a 4 or 6 bit panel and a 1,000:1 dynamic contrast ratio.

I think I will be blown away to be sure.
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post #311 of 4672 Old 05-08-2009, 07:53 AM
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Has anyone noticed the BE2 blur in these sets? How does the sharpness of video, photo, and game mode compared?
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post #312 of 4672 Old 05-08-2009, 08:05 AM
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It is a lot less blur, judder, and a whole ton sharper than any of my SXRD sets which btw CNET still uses as a reference set.

You people are really really being to worrisome over a tv set.

All you need to know is that the picture on the set is one of the best you can get today.

Then goto the store and see if you like it. If you do buy it.

Im not sure how much more people like Will and I can say.
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post #313 of 4672 Old 05-08-2009, 08:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TLS49 View Post


4. I read a post earlier about this set struggling with 5.1 through a receiver? Does anybody have it hooked up to a 5.1 system/receiver via HDMI? I just want it to work lol.


I'd be going after the 52". Hopefully someone can enlighten.

I don't think many tvs pass 5.1 out to a receiver, just from over the air signals. This one passes 2 channel pcm from all other sources. Of course, like we've all done for years, just connect a digital cable (either coaxial or optical) from your source directly to your receiver.
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post #314 of 4672 Old 05-08-2009, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serialmike View Post

It is a lot less blur, judder, and a whole ton sharper than any of my SXRD sets which btw CNET still uses as a reference set.

You people are really really being to worrisome over a tv set.

All you need to know is that the picture on the set is one of the best you can get today.

Then goto the store and see if you like it. If you do buy it.

Im not sure how much more people like Will and I can say.

a little less hyperbole might help: one should take into account that the sony V line is at the low end (one up from the lowest S) of the sony lineup.

iirc afaik fwiw imo
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post #315 of 4672 Old 05-08-2009, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by TVbc View Post

a little less hyperbole might help: one should take into account that the sony V line is at the low end (one up from the lowest S) of the sony lineup.

Yep, thats true. But it is the highest in the line that isnt LED which at this point is a technology I do not like. Due to haloing effects in dark scenes.

So when considering that. This is the best LCD on the market for picture for its type of set. Imo

Also taking into account reviews the picture is flat out one of the best pictures you can purchase with your money. So I really dont see any hyperbole there. My opinion is my opinion and I may express that as I please.
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post #316 of 4672 Old 05-08-2009, 08:59 AM
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What is BE2?

I have never bought a HDTV before and this is my first set. So if you all say its good, I have never seen a bad one before. I check my last TV and it was a 31" and I bought it in 1996 and its still working. I almost break my back moving it.

I still try to get away from the fact I have one dead pixel. Its on the lower left and at the bottom. I cant see it unless I get near and only on all black I can.
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post #317 of 4672 Old 05-08-2009, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by serialmike View Post

It is a lot less blur, judder, and a whole ton sharper than any of my SXRD sets which btw CNET still uses as a reference set.

You people are really really being to worrisome over a tv set.

All you need to know is that the picture on the set is one of the best you can get today.

Then goto the store and see if you like it. If you do buy it.

Im not sure how much more people like Will and I can say.

You've said quite enough for me. As of 11:00 today I became the proud new owner of a 52V5100 from Best Buy (Price matched from Big River).

I went to HHGregg one more time to check out the picture (BB didn't have a display) and loved it. It must have been OTA HD because...wow...maybe this is the difference of 1080p at 52" over 42" and 46" but I really loved it in a store setting.

Its being delivered tomorrow. I'll post some opinions to add to the list when they have left.

One thing I did notice at HHGregg, when your input has nothing on it a purple background a la the PS3 comes on. Is this to hide clouding/deformity? Must find a way around that to test the set for problems...
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post #318 of 4672 Old 05-08-2009, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chong67 View Post

What is BE2?

I have never bought a HDTV before and this is my first set. So if you all say its good, I have never seen a bad one before. I check my last TV and it was a 31" and I bought it in 1996 and its still working. I almost break my back moving it.

I still try to get away from the fact I have one dead pixel. Its on the lower left and at the bottom. I cant see it unless I get near and only on all black I can.

BE2 stands for Bravia Engine 2. Its the video processing of the V5100. Basically, what allows it to display crisp HD images and passable SD images.
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post #319 of 4672 Old 05-08-2009, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serialmike View Post

Yep, thats true. But it is the highest in the line that isnt LED which at this point is a technology I do not like. Due to haloing effects in dark scenes.

So when considering that. This is the best LCD on the market for picture for its type of set. Imo

Also taking into account reviews the picture is flat out one of the best pictures you can purchase with your money. So I really dont see any hyperbole there. My opinion is my opinion and I may express that as I please.

the hyperbole is: creating the impression that a low(er) end sony hdtv lives up to the high(er) expectatins expressed.

your expressed opinion is based on a misconception.

the sony v5100 is NOT "...the highest in the line that isnt LED ...". this misconception does explain perhaps the overblown elevation of the sony 2009 V line.

the 2009 sony lineup is only starting to be introduced. it will be, order lower to higher:

S5100
V5100

W5100
Z5100
XBR9
XBR10(presumably successor to xbr7)
XBR11 (presumably successor to xbr8) .

the boldfaced models are introduced and on sale. the W5100 has been announced and expected shortly. the XBR10 and XBR11 are not announced yet. the XBR11 is definitely expected to be an array LED backlight locally dimming model. the xbr10, if there is actually going to be one, has no active speculation afaik. sony has not officially announced any LED sets for 2009 and no edge-mounted LED bacligith LCDs for 2009 to compete with the samsung luxia line (and may not, since samsung may have the supply of that tech tied up).

of course your opinion is your opinion. my response was generated by your "...what more can i say..." line. now that i see that you erroneously think the V5100 is sony's top ccfl backlight model, it's more understandable, but still not credible.

to get more perspective, more information on the active 2009 models can be had at
www.sonystyle.com

more information on the announced models can be had at the sony press room.
http://news.sel.sony.com/en
sony CES 2009 site
http://www.sony.com/ces/flash.html
sony 2009 open house
http://news.sel.sony.com/assets/Open...009/index.html




TVbc

iirc afaik fwiw imo
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post #320 of 4672 Old 05-08-2009, 10:50 AM
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I'm not bummed with it being the mid-level Sony. The A650 was the mid-level Samsung and it became the standard to which price/picture were measured. The picture I saw on the wall today (right next to a Samsung B650 mind you) was as good, if not better, than everything around it.

Add to that fact that I'm 21 and an undergraduate in college and you have what my dad calls an, "extremely extravagent luxury that both your mom and I can't imagine having in our house."

Let's all enjoy our sets. In a year they will all be crap anyway :P
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post #321 of 4672 Old 05-08-2009, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TVbc View Post

the hyperbole is: creating the impression that a low(er) end sony hdtv lives up to the high(er) expectatins expressed.

your expressed opinion is based on a misconception.

the sony v5100 is NOT "...the highest in the line that isnt LED ...". this misconception does explain perhaps the overblown elevation of the sony 2009 V line.

the 2009 sony lineup is only starting to be introduced. it will be, order lower to higher:

S5100
V5100

W5100
Z5100
XBR9
XBR10(presumably successor to xbr7)
XBR11 (presumably successor to xbr8) .

the boldfaced models are introduced and on sale. the W5100 has been announced and expected shortly. the XBR10 and XBR11 are not announced yet. the XBR11 is definitely expected to be an array LED backlight locally dimming model. the xbr10, if there is actually going to be one, has no active speculation afaik. sony has not officially announced any LED sets for 2009 and no edge-mounted LED bacligith LCDs for 2009 to compete with the samsung luxia line (and may not, since samsung may have the supply of that tech tied up).

of course your opinion is your opinion. my response was generated by your "...what more can i say..." line. now that i see that you erroneously think the V5100 is sony's top ccfl backlight model, it's more understandable, but still not credible.

to get more perspective, more information on the active 2009 models can be had at
www.sonystyle.com

more information on the announced models can be had at the sony press room.
http://news.sel.sony.com/en
sony CES 2009 site
http://www.sony.com/ces/flash.html
sony 2009 open house
http://news.sel.sony.com/assets/Open...009/index.html




TVbc

I had not realized those two models were released. I hadn't seen em in store yet.

With that said. I at this point would love to see em first. They are claiming a high dynamic contrast which really does not do that much for me. Believe it or not the static contrast ratio of these 2 "higher" model sets is 3800:1 From what Ive learned looking at these sets. The Static is much much more important than the dynamic again. IMO

The v5100 is 5000:1 This could very well be a big big difference. It is just about 25 percent higher contrast ratio than the higher models in the line. Keep in mind that many many of the people here do not even use the dynamic contrast ratio because they turn off the features that give the crazy 100,000 to one. But again the Base contrast ratio of this set is 25 percent lower. I wouldnt think Sony would rate each of thier own sets using different methods.

Now going back to defending my points. I have had the set a few weeks and the only reviews as per real sets you could get your hands on till I guess this Tuesday were this set. Then the LCD backlight sonys and the Sammies. And of thiose reviews this set was rated equal or better on some.

this along with testing and spending time with most of these sets and owning a sammy and this sony I reached a decision Thats where my remarks of my opinion the best set image quality of the "available" bunch.

I cannot speak for these 2 other sets as ,well I haven't been to best buy this week. But I can tell you that the native contrast ratio of the set has me skeptical that the set produces an image that I would call more satisfactory. But hey maybe it is. To this point my opinion still stands.

Really, there is always a new set coming in another week month whatever so really all you did was come in this thread to start a fight.
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post #322 of 4672 Old 05-08-2009, 11:29 AM
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serialmike...fine. i'm not disputing that it's a fine set or your assesment of it per se, only it's extent as compared to the full sony line ... and wanting to give it some perspective.



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post #323 of 4672 Old 05-08-2009, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TVbc View Post

serialmike...fine. i'm not disputing that it's a fine set or your assesment of it per se, only it's extent as compared to the full sony line ... and wanting to give it some perspective.



TVbc

I apologize, It seemed as though you just wanted to contradict. Since that is not the case. again I apologize.
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post #324 of 4672 Old 05-08-2009, 11:41 AM
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I bought this excellent piece of equipment a week ago and after 35 years of SDTV, let me tell you this is a huge difference, so for those who haven't jumped into the HDTV just yet, one thing is for certain you'll be amazed. I spent quite sometime looking at specs of different HDTVs and reviews and like many of my purchase I went for the Sony because I got a good deal, and I had good experiences with that brand in the past. I haven't set it up properly yet, but it still looks great so when I realize what I'm supposed to look for, then I'll probably mess with the settings, if not I'll leave it alone. I've been watching "Planet Earth" lately and I don't know if it gets any better than this.
My opinion is that you won't go wrong with this HDTV, unless it's flawed, but as long as it's under warranty, you'll be fine.
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post #325 of 4672 Old 05-08-2009, 11:53 AM
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I bought this excellent piece of equipment a week ago and after 35 years of SDTV, let me tell you this is a huge difference, so for those who haven't jumped into the HDTV just yet, one thing is for certain you'll be amazed. I spent quite sometime looking at specs of different HDTVs and reviews and like many of my purchase I went for the Sony because I got a good deal, and I had good experiences with that brand in the past. I haven't set it up properly yet, but it still looks great so when I realize what I'm supposed to look for, then I'll probably mess with the settings, if not I'll leave it alone. I've been watching "Planet Earth" lately and I don't know if it gets any better than this.
My opinion is that you won't go wrong with this HDTV, unless it's flawed, but as long as it's under warranty, you'll be fine.

Its the one thing that keeps me buying from Best Buy. In that 30 day return period you can conceivably take 15 different TV's. Every single one of my return appointments has been next day, at the LATEST the following morning bright and early around 8 - 9.

You just can't beat that.
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post #326 of 4672 Old 05-08-2009, 02:18 PM
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I'm having mine exchanged for another of the same model. It may be this TV or it may be my cable box but whatever it is there's an annoying problem with a popping sound when changing channels between HD and non-HD channels. It's an electrical "pop" sound that is kind of scary sounding...especially if the volume happens to be turned up.

Also, sometimes when changing channels the new channel's sound will come on but no picture. You have to flip back and forth a couple of times to make it appear. Not good.

The cable company came out yesterday and exchanged boxes. Unfortunately, that didn't help. The guy also tried a different HDMI cable and a different HDMI port. Neither of those things helped.

So, I contacted the electronics store where I bought the TV and told them all this and asked if they could send someone out to check it out. They said they'd rather just exchange sets. Okay....but if it's the cable box or the cable signal a new TV isn't likely to help.

Have any of you experienced anything like this?

And I was sorry to read the notes above that this isn't one of Sony's better models. Shoot. I thought I was getting a really good TV and now I'm wondering if I am...especially with the problems I'm having. Not to be a downer about this TV because the HD channels really look great.
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post #327 of 4672 Old 05-08-2009, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolowl View Post

I'm having mine exchanged for another of the same model. It may be this TV or it may be my cable box but whatever it is there's an annoying problem with a popping sound when changing channels between HD and non-HD channels. It's an electrical "pop" sound that is kind of scary sounding...especially if the volume happens to be turned up.

Also, sometimes when changing channels the new channel's sound will come on but no picture. You have to flip back and forth a couple of times to make it appear. Not good.

The cable company came out yesterday and exchanged boxes. Unfortunately, that didn't help. The guy also tried a different HDMI cable and a different HDMI port. Neither of those things helped.

So, I contacted the electronics store where I bought the TV and told them all this and asked if they could send someone out to check it out. They said they'd rather just exchange sets. Okay....but if it's the cable box or the cable signal a new TV isn't likely to help.

Have any of you experienced anything like this?

And I was sorry to read the notes above that this isn't one of Sony's better models. Shoot. I thought I was getting a really good TV and now I'm wondering if I am...especially with the problems I'm having. Not to be a downer about this TV because the HD channels really look great.

Try the replacement first.

If it makes you feel better I compared the 52XBR6 and the 52V5100 side by side in a semi-dark setting.

The most obvious difference is the MotionFlow of the XBR6 being way, way worse than the V5100. Even though this was in HHGregg and I couldn't tell how many times the signal had been split the XBR6 had baaaad haloing and what looked like water all around people as they moved with MotionFlow on high. With the same setting the V5100 exhibited no haloing and only trace amounts of judder. A split second max. These were showing the same images at the same time.

The picture is otherwise indiscernible. The one they had on their wall had the ACE on and yet I still felt myself blown away by the image.

For the price I paid, I'll take XBR6-esque performance any day of the week.

You will find that as you look at LCDTV's there is always something bigger/better/a few hundred dollars more. The fact of the matter is that the more LCD's you buy the more you become tired of the whole process. This is my 3rd LCD (Westinghouse TX-42F430S, Samsung LN-46B550, and now KDL52V5100) and I haaaate looking for problems, finding them, reading about new problems and all of a sudden noticing them on my set, returning the set, wondering if I shouldn't have spent $500 more, realizing how much money $500 is, hating myself for being so ungrateful.

This forum can be poison. It can be a great help but man, it can be poison.

Just be happy you have a 120hz LCD from probably the best LCD maker in the business right now. Unless you are an extreme videophile, you probably won't be able to justify another $1000 - $1500 for an XBR of the same size.
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post #328 of 4672 Old 05-08-2009, 03:05 PM
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My 46V5100 makes some popping noise when I change channel the first few minutes of it. After that, it change channel without any noise.

I am using Dish Receiver DVR 611.

Try any dish feeds and see.
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post #329 of 4672 Old 05-08-2009, 03:59 PM
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I do not have any noise whatso ever. The update did make the switch between inputs much much faster.

I am connected from the motorola hd box to the denon reciever.

I never ever watch the tv without surround sound.
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post #330 of 4672 Old 05-08-2009, 04:05 PM
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I used to have a popping noise on my Westinghouse TV. It usually happened when the TV shut off after watching for a few hours.

The plastic was expanding. Perhaps in the downtime between channels the Sony is cooling in some way? If Serialmike does not have the issue than a replacement should take care of that.
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