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post #4591 of 4672 Old 04-07-2012, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by lou99 View Post

Modem7890 : Calibration settings that produce a accurate picture do not fall in line with what your trying to achieve. Aint nothing wrong with that. Set it vivid and forget it.

I too started off on Vivid (like most of us) back in the 90's.

There is a learning curve involved when understanding TV levels (ie: color/brightness/contract/etc). [b]However, when you take the time to learn appreciate, and get used to a properly calibrated set - there ain't no turning back![b/] Every other TV's settings will look like Nikki Minaj.

I second this...once you see things how they are meant to be seen, factory settings will become an eyesore.

Btw, I recalibrated my tv with some different suggestions from one of the devs of calMAN and it changed my picture significantly. I ended up with these settings if anyone wants to test them out and see if they like them:

Everything else is default or off unless otherwise stated.

Pic 82
Bright 47
Hue R1
Color 50
Gamma low

White balance
Red gain -6
Green gain -16
Blue gain max
Red bias +7
Green bias +7
Blue bias -2

This put the the color luminance for RGBat 100 where they should be on my set. Unfortunately there is no way to adjust the luminance on this set as its an entry level tv.
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post #4592 of 4672 Old 04-07-2012, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by dunan View Post

I second this...once you see things how they are meant to be seen, factory settings will become an eyesore.

Btw, I recalibrated my tv with some different suggestions from one of the devs of calMAN and it changed my picture significantly. I ended up with these settings if anyone wants to test them out and see if they like them:

Everything else is default or off unless otherwise stated.

Pic 82
Bright 47
Hue R1
Color 50
Gamma low

White balance
Red gain -6
Green gain -16
Blue gain max
Red bias +7
Green bias +7
Blue bias -2

This put the the color luminance for RGBat 100 where they should be on my set. Unfortunately there is no way to adjust the luminance on this set as its an entry level tv.

pls fill out the complete settings. cinema, etc..

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post #4593 of 4672 Old 04-07-2012, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by caloyzki View Post


pls fill out the complete settings. cinema, etc..

Here you go

Picture mode: Cinema
Backlight: min
Picture: 82
Brightness: 47
Color: 50
Hue: R1
Color temp: warm
Sharp: user preference
Noise reduction: off
Adv. contrast enhancer: off
Gamma: low
clear white: off
live color: off
cinemotion: auto 1
motionflow: off (on for live sports)

White balance:
R-gain: -6
G-gain: -16
B-gain: max
R-bias: +7
G-bias: -+7
B-bias: -2
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post #4594 of 4672 Old 04-08-2012, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by caloyzki View Post

pls fill out the complete settings. cinema, etc..

Hey cal I thought you were going to stay with the settings I suggested? If not no big deal. Let me know how dunans setting look and maybe I will give them a try again.
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post #4595 of 4672 Old 04-08-2012, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by steve1971 View Post

Hey cal I thought you were going to stay with the settings I suggested? If not no big deal. Let me know how dunans setting look and maybe I will give them a try again.

yes i am still gonna stick on tom's settings. i havent tried dunan settings yet.

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post #4596 of 4672 Old 04-09-2012, 06:43 AM
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Originally Posted by steve1971 View Post

Hey caloyzki,

Try dunans settings, I did and they are better then Tom's. You will see a difference. Theres a huge difference in PQ and for the better I believe. Let me know what you think when you try them.

hey are you sure? did u try it already? is it better than toms?how did u say so? what is dunan mean on the r bias is that -7 or +7?

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post #4597 of 4672 Old 04-09-2012, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by caloyzki View Post

hey are you sure? did u try it already? is it better than toms?how did u say so? what is dunan mean on the r bias is that -7 or +7?



Hey cal,

I tried dunans settings yes but I have now switched back to Tom's and heres why. My fiance came home from work and and I am sitting here watching ESPN First Take and she says "What did you do to the tv? Why does the colors look flat? Change them back to where you had them!" She also said that the faces of Skip Bayliss and the other commentator looked to red. Then we watched Planet Green and she said the colors looked too flat. I had to agree so it was back to the settings Tom Norton gave me and from now on thats where they will stay. Dunans settings looked good but didnt have that pop that my fiance and I enjoy so I tried his settings but went back to Toms. As for dunans r bias setting? Its +7. But again cal I am staying with Toms settings. You may like giving dunans setting a try and who knows you may like them. As I say tvs do vary from set to set. Let me know what you do buddy.
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post #4598 of 4672 Old 04-09-2012, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by steve1971 View Post

Hey cal,

I tried dunans settings yes but I have now switched back to Tom's and heres why. My fiance came home from work and and I am sitting here watching ESPN First Take and she says "What did you do to the tv? Why does the colors look flat? Change them back to where you had them!" She also said that the faces of Skip Bayliss and the other commentator looked to red. Then we watched Planet Green and she said the colors looked too flat. I had to agree so it was back to the settings Tom Norton gave me and from now on thats where they will stay. Dunans settings looked good but didnt have that pop that my fiance and I enjoy so I tried his settings but went back to Toms. As for dunans r bias setting? Its +7. But again cal I am staying with Toms settings. You may like giving dunans setting a try and who knows you may like them. As I say tvs do vary from set to set. Let me know what you do buddy.

ok my friend i will try it later and figure it how it looks like. anyway dunan put ti to cinema. is is possible if i will get his to standard so that i will leave tpms settings to cinema so that i can compare it from that.

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post #4599 of 4672 Old 04-09-2012, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by steve1971 View Post


Hey cal,

I tried dunans settings yes but I have now switched back to Tom's and heres why. My fiance came home from work and and I am sitting here watching ESPN First Take and she says "What did you do to the tv? Why does the colors look flat? Change them back to where you had them!" She also said that the faces of Skip Bayliss and the other commentator looked to red. Then we watched Planet Green and she said the colors looked too flat. I had to agree so it was back to the settings Tom Norton gave me and from now on thats where they will stay. Dunans settings looked good but didnt have that pop that my fiance and I enjoy so I tried his settings but went back to Toms. As for dunans r bias setting? Its +7. But again cal I am staying with Toms settings. You may like giving dunans setting a try and who knows you may like them. As I say tvs do vary from set to set. Let me know what you do buddy.

This is interesting because I thought toms settings looked acceptable, but not great on this tv. I used them for some time, but always thought they could be better. Also, thats an indication that our tvs aren't that different when it comes to settings and PQ if even a few people think the same settings are acceptable on different sets of the same model.

When you calibrate, you're calibrating to match DVD/blu ray content, not cable tv, as the content fluctuates too much from channel to channel. One station will look great and the next station will look horrible. Cable TV is not a good way to gauge a calibration by, and unfortunately the ESPN channel blows out their reds unlike any other, so the reds look incredibly over saturated on that station. This is why you say it looks too red and planet green looks too flat. So, the last thing you want to do is gauge how your whole TV looks as a whole by cable tv. For example, ESPN looks good with toms settings, but with other channels, people look pale and the colors look under saturated and too flat.

When you put toms settings into calMAN, the grey balance is way off center and far into the green, so the grays have a green tint to them. That's why people look pale. The G5 hue that tom has does even out the greens a little but the fact of the matter is that the greens on this set are over the top and he tried getting the green luminance down by setting a G5 hue which deadens the reds but does help the blues. The goal is to get the white balance dead center so there is as little color as possible in the grayscale. You want the RGB balance in the grays to be as flat as possible. This is why you think the colors look 'flat' because you are removing the color content from the grays, but technically, this is how the picture is supposed to look. This also gets the colors as even as possible so one color isn't standing out over the others.

The technical aspects of the settings are this:

The cinema and warm settings gave this tv a 64xx hundred white point. If you change it to any other setting (standard, vivid, etc.) it will be too blue. You don't want that.

The picture setting of 82 gave a 35 luminance setting, right in the middle, where you want it for movie watching. To get a brighter picture (luminance), bump up the backlight, not the contrast.
Brightness of 47 gave a black reference cutoff of 16, right where it should be for blu ray reference after setting the white balance.
Contrast is more of a user setting but 82 on this set gave the best white to dark ratio.
Color at 50/hue R1 gave the most even color balance on the calMAN scale. If you do a blue filter test with this set, the color/hue settings would be color 48/hue R8. This threw the secondary colors into disarray, making the yellow and magenta too red, cyan too blue and the picture looks far too unnatural with the secondary colors (CMY) having far too much luminance over the primarys (RGB).
Gamma at low gave the best average gamma point at between 2.1 and 2.4. The goal is 2.2 and setting the gamma to 'off 'put the gamma point between 1.8 and 2.3, too low of an average.

The trick to the white balance is to get the colors in the grayscale to 100 on the RGB chart. These settings do not go over 100 or under 99 so they are as close as they are going to get, giving a virtually even white balance, almost dead center. Anything that is supposed to look grey will look grey, and color tint within the grayscale is as little as it gets on this set because there's no way to get it perfect.
Unfortunately there is no way to adjust luminance of colors on this set (boldness of the colors) as this set uses a 2 point white balance instead of a 10, so as I've said earlier, cable tv will not look as good as a DVD or blu ray with calibrated settings. ESPN does look over saturated on my set (reds) but that is not a fault of the set, it's how ESPN has the color balance set on their channel. This is verified because the series 'frozen planet' in HD looks absolutely wonderful with this set, with people and landscape looking as they should, not under or over saturated - the complete opposite of ESPN. Skin tones look natural and everything has an even color balance. Better yet, throw in a DVD/blu ray and look at skin tones or something you know to be gray or silver (skin tones/streets/roads/meat slicer). They will look as they are supposed to with a proper calibration.

As stated in previous posts, the colors are supposed to look flat because the grayscale would now be correct and it's being see the way the producer intended it to be seen. This is the whole point of calibration - to see it the way it's meant to be seen, not how we want it to look, since everyone perceives color differently. You also have to give your eyes time to adjust to the difference, especially if you're used to watching tv with certain settings. Hoped this helped or cleared some things up regarding calibration and settings.
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post #4600 of 4672 Old 04-09-2012, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by dunan View Post

This is interesting because I thought toms settings looked acceptable, but not great on this tv. I used them for some time, but always thought they could be better. Also, thats an indication that our tvs aren't that different when it comes to settings and PQ if even a few people think the same settings are acceptable on different sets of the same model.

When you calibrate, you're calibrating to match DVD/blu ray content, not cable tv, as the content fluctuates too much from channel to channel. One station will look great and the next station will look horrible. Cable TV is not a good way to gauge a calibration by, and unfortunately the ESPN channel blows out their reds unlike any other, so the reds look incredibly over saturated on that station. This is why you say it looks too red and planet green looks too flat. So, the last thing you want to do is gauge how your whole TV looks as a whole by cable tv. For example, ESPN looks good with toms settings, but with other channels, people look pale and the colors look under saturated and too flat.

When you put toms settings into calMAN, the grey balance is way off center and far into the green, so the grays have a green tint to them. That's why people look pale. The G5 hue that tom has does even out the greens a little but the fact of the matter is that the greens on this set are over the top and he tried getting the green luminance down by setting a G5 hue which deadens the reds but does help the blues. The goal is to get the white balance dead center so there is as little color as possible in the grayscale. You want the RGB balance in the grays to be as flat as possible. This is why you think the colors look 'flat' because you are removing the color content from the grays, but technically, this is how the picture is supposed to look. This also gets the colors as even as possible so one color isn't standing out over the others.

The technical aspects of the settings are this:

The cinema and warm settings gave this tv a 64xx hundred white point. If you change it to any other setting (standard, vivid, etc.) it will be too blue. You don't want that.

The picture setting of 82 gave a 35 luminance setting, right in the middle, where you want it for movie watching. To get a brighter picture (luminance), bump up the backlight, not the contrast.
Brightness of 47 gave a black reference cutoff of 16, right where it should be for blu ray reference after setting the white balance.
Contrast is more of a user setting but 82 on this set gave the best white to dark ratio.
Color at 50/hue R1 gave the most even color balance on the calMAN scale. If you do a blue filter test with this set, the color/hue settings would be color 48/hue R8. This threw the secondary colors into disarray, making the yellow and magenta too red, cyan too blue and the picture looks far too unnatural with the secondary colors (CMY) having far too much luminance over the primarys (RGB).
Gamma at low gave the best average gamma point at between 2.1 and 2.4. The goal is 2.2 and setting the gamma to 'off 'put the gamma point between 1.8 and 2.3, too low of an average.

The trick to the white balance is to get the colors in the grayscale to 100 on the RGB chart. These settings do not go over 100 or under 99 so they are as close as they are going to get, giving a virtually even white balance, almost dead center. Anything that is supposed to look grey will look grey, and color tint within the grayscale is as little as it gets on this set because there's no way to get it perfect.
Unfortunately there is no way to adjust luminance of colors on this set (boldness of the colors) as this set uses a 2 point white balance instead of a 10, so as I've said earlier, cable tv will not look as good as a DVD or blu ray with calibrated settings. ESPN does look over saturated on my set (reds) but that is not a fault of the set, it's how ESPN has the color balance set on their channel. This is verified because the series 'frozen planet' in HD looks absolutely wonderful with this set, with people and landscape looking as they should, not under or over saturated - the complete opposite of ESPN. Skin tones look natural and everything has an even color balance. Better yet, throw in a DVD/blu ray and look at skin tones or something you know to be gray or silver (skin tones/streets/roads/meat slicer). They will look as they are supposed to with a proper calibration.

As stated in previous posts, the colors are supposed to look flat because the grayscale would now be correct and it's being see the way the producer intended it to be seen. This is the whole point of calibration - to see it the way it's meant to be seen, not how we want it to look, since everyone perceives color differently. You also have to give your eyes time to adjust to the difference, especially if you're used to watching tv with certain settings. Hoped this helped or cleared some things up regarding calibration and settings.


Holy crap dunan. This is one of the best PQ settings expanation I have ever read, you know your stuff buddy and you know our tv's very well. So after reading all this I am going to go back to your settings and try and see if I can at least give them a try and get used to them. Maybe I am just to used to Toms settings but I am going to try yours because of all that you explained. Give my eyes time to adjust to the right settings as you said. If your settings bring out the best PQ my tv can offer then thats all I am looking for and its you I have to thank for it. You werent a pro calibrater by any chance were you dunan? Because you know your stuff like I said.
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post #4601 of 4672 Old 04-09-2012, 06:15 PM
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As stated in previous posts, the colors are supposed to look flat because the grayscale would now be correct and it's being see the way the producer intended it to be seen. This is the whole point of calibration - to see it the way it's meant to be seen, not how we want it to look, since everyone perceives color differently.

I like the technical accuracy behind the calibration. If I watch a movie that was intended to look "dark/grainy/dull" (ie: American History-X) it will look the way it was intended. If I watch a movie with wonderful colors (ie: Avatar) it will look exactly the way the producer intended. I dont want American History X to look as saturated as Avatar. :P

Unfortunately years of watching improperly calibrated sets have created improperly calibrated eyes.
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post #4602 of 4672 Old 04-10-2012, 10:00 AM
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Well had some time to watch my tv with dunans reccomended settings and all I can say is I think that finally I have my tv right where I want it PQ wise. Excellent PQ while watching Directv HD and spectacular while watching Blu rays. Thanks a million dunan, I owe ya one buddy.


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post #4603 of 4672 Old 04-10-2012, 10:36 AM
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Well had some time to watch my tv with dunans reccomended settings and all I can say is I think that finally I have my tv right where I want it PQ wise. Excellent PQ while watching Directv HD and spectacular while watching Blu rays. Thanks a million dunan, I owe ya one buddy.



are we all in to dunan's settings mate? im in!

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post #4604 of 4672 Old 04-10-2012, 07:50 PM
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are we all in to dunan's settings mate? im in!

Yep cal I am all in buddy. To bad I didnt have his settings before I got Tom's because now I know what my tv is supposed to look like. Dunans settings are here to stay on my tv for as long as it lasts and I hope that will be for some time to come.
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post #4605 of 4672 Old 04-12-2012, 02:20 PM
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Yep cal I am all in buddy. To bad I didnt have his settings before I got Tom's because now I know what my tv is supposed to look like. Dunans settings are here to stay on my tv for as long as it lasts and I hope that will be for some time to come.

how much sharpness you using steve? from dunan settings,

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post #4606 of 4672 Old 04-12-2012, 05:39 PM
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Holy crap dunan. This is one of the best PQ settings expanation I have ever read, you know your stuff buddy and you know our tv's very well. So after reading all this I am going to go back to your settings and try and see if I can at least give them a try and get used to them. Maybe I am just to used to Toms settings but I am going to try yours because of all that you explained. Give my eyes time to adjust to the right settings as you said. If your settings bring out the best PQ my tv can offer then thats all I am looking for and its you I have to thank for it. You werent a pro calibrater by any chance were you dunan? Because you know your stuff like I said.

No I'm not a pro calibrator, I just have a knack for this sort of thing I guess but I did get a lot of help from the guys over at home theater shack. Slow moving forum but those guys really know their stuff when it comes to calibration and I have them to thank be sure it's their tips that got me these results. They showed me a different way to calibrate and I guess from the responses it worked
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post #4607 of 4672 Old 04-12-2012, 05:42 PM
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how much sharpness you using steve? from dunan settings,

I'm using number 3 as it was the best setting using the AVS calibration DVD that didn't give any artifacts but didn't make the picture too soft.
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I like the technical accuracy behind the calibration. If I watch a movie that was intended to look "dark/grainy/dull" (ie: American History-X) it will look the way it was intended. If I watch a movie with wonderful colors (ie: Avatar) it will look exactly the way the producer intended. I dont want American History X to look as saturated as Avatar. :P

Unfortunately years of watching improperly calibrated sets have created improperly calibrated eyes.

I hear ya. Avatar is a tricky one though because it uses a lot of colors not normally seen in 95% of movies. That movie is a true test for any tv's color accuracy.
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post #4609 of 4672 Old 04-13-2012, 06:37 AM
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how much sharpness you using steve? from dunan settings,

I am useing a level 3 sharpness cal.
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post #4610 of 4672 Old 04-13-2012, 08:22 AM
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sir dunan and sir steve, anyone of you have any idea on how to calibrate home theater surround sound system? i bought sound system its only philips, but i dont know if there is also a way how the sounds can be set up? thanks mate.

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post #4611 of 4672 Old 04-13-2012, 09:44 AM
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sir dunan and sir steve, anyone of you have any idea on how to calibrate home theater surround sound system? i bought sound system its only philips, but i dont know if there is also a way how the sounds can be set up? thanks mate.

You would do that with an AVR and a mic that has audyssey or similar built into the unit.

If it doesn't have an audio calibrator of that sort then unfortunately you would be unable to do that without a sound meter, and even then you'd need to be able to set the volume on each channel.
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post #4612 of 4672 Old 04-13-2012, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dunan View Post

You would do that with an AVR and a mic that has audyssey or similar built into the unit.

If it doesn't have an audio calibrator of that sort then unfortunately you would be unable to do that without a sound meter, and even then you'd need to be able to set the volume on each channel.

i think my avr doesnt have that kind of features. but it has adjusted volume on each speakers. like -0db - +9db. thats the only way i can adjust right?

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post #4613 of 4672 Old 04-13-2012, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by caloyzki View Post


i think my avr doesnt have that kind of features. but it has adjusted volume on each speakers. like -0db - +9db. thats the only way i can adjust right?

I havent heard of Philips receivers having any calibration offerings, so I'd say room calibration is out of the question unless you got a receiver like a denon, Yamaha, pioneer, etc.
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post #4614 of 4672 Old 04-13-2012, 08:46 PM
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I havent heard of Philips receivers having any calibration offerings, so I'd say room calibration is out of the question unless you got a receiver like a denon, Yamaha, pioneer, etc.

I agree with you dunan. I havent heard of any Phillips AVRs having calibration settings. I know my Denon does.
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post #4615 of 4672 Old 04-14-2012, 07:37 PM
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Damn the PQ my tv is putting out is off the wall! Simply beautiful. Thanks a million once again dunan.



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post #4616 of 4672 Old 04-14-2012, 09:37 PM
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Damn the PQ my tv is putting out is off the wall! Simply beautiful. Thanks a million once again dunan.


Not too shabby, aye? There's a chance it could be better because I was using an older colorimeter that has a tendency to 'drift' but aren't sure how much better because of the 2 point white balance settings. It's my assumption it won't get that much better than this if at all but I'm satisfied with these settings to be honest, my PQ is quite good as well
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post #4617 of 4672 Old 04-15-2012, 06:15 AM
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Not too shabby, aye? There's a chance it could be better because I was using an older colorimeter that has a tendency to 'drift' but aren't sure how much better because of the 2 point white balance settings. It's my assumption it won't get that much better than this if at all but I'm satisfied with these settings to be honest, my PQ is quite good as well

I think dunan this is the best our tv's can produce PQ wise and cant get any better unless you get a professional calibrater to do it. But I found something interesting last night. I found out that Home Theater Mag uses the Calman setup as well now and thats strange because they never mentioned that before. That being said your settings are a winner. Hey before I sign off I also saw on ShopNBC that there is a box that can convert your current non 3-D tv into a 3-D tv if your into that. I am not all that shocked but its something I would look into for my tv.
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post #4618 of 4672 Old 06-26-2012, 03:00 PM
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A few months ago I upgraded the firmware on my KDL-52V5100 and I've been having issues with my cable PVR's HDMI connection (black/green screen, noise, completely unwatchable, fixed after many many reboots, same problem every day). I'm wondering if anyone could send me the old firmware so I can downgrade and get rid of these issues?

Thank you!
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post #4619 of 4672 Old 06-28-2012, 10:33 AM
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A few months ago I upgraded the firmware on my KDL-52V5100 and I've been having issues with my cable PVR's HDMI connection (black/green screen, noise, completely unwatchable, fixed after many many reboots, same problem every day). I'm wondering if anyone could send me the old firmware so I can downgrade and get rid of these issues?
Thank you!


What firmware did you use to update your tv to? I ask because the last firmware Sony sent only messed up the control for HDMI function, which I turned off. It seems you have a more serious issue then a firmware update. I hope thats not the case.
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post #4620 of 4672 Old 07-13-2012, 09:44 PM
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I am an owner of a KDL-40V5100 LCD TV and a BDP-S360 Blu-ray player. I just installed firmware v.:

KDL-40V5100_ER412_E327_M046.zip

This has essentially bricked my Sony Blu-ray player. At least in the context of attempting to use it via HDMI with my KDL-40V5100.

I've read many previous posts and know this has to do with the Control for HDMI. So I heeded peoples advice and turned this off under:

Menu->Channel->Control for HDMI = OFF

This failed. It reports: NO SIGNAL

I've tried re-seating the HDMI cable, I've tried other known working HDMI cables. I've tried ALL 4 HDMI ports. I've also tried my cable box in all 4 HDMI ports. The cable box works in all 4. However the BDP-S360 does not.

The software version as it appears under:

Menu->Setup->Product Support = ER4.12-E327

Does anyone have a firmware version for the KDL-40V5100 that will restore my ability to watch Blu-ray disks on my BDP-S360 like I was able to do just a few short hours ago before I installed this firmware?

If so please PM me.

Thank you very much!
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