Official Sony KDL-xxV5100 Thread - Page 28 - AVS Forum
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post #811 of 4672 Old 06-23-2009, 02:40 PM
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I've never seen flashlighting on my Sony so it's certainly not all of them so that's good.
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post #812 of 4672 Old 06-23-2009, 02:55 PM
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So I guess the question is: with the color "flickering" problem that appears to not have been addressed up to this point, is the V5100 series TV worth the Sony price premium? I really had my mind made up to get the Sharp 52E77U, but I made the mistake of seeing a 52V5100 today and I have to admit the picture was amazing, even with the store settings enabled. I'm colorblind, so chances are I won't notice the red flickering, but I can imagine my wife will give me all kinds of grief if I drop the extra cash on a TV with a known issue.

-Dave
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post #813 of 4672 Old 06-23-2009, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yukon Trooper View Post

It's light leakage that shows up as lighter areas on the screen. It's usually only viewable on a dark screen in a dark room, but some units are worse than others and some units have very minimal flashlighting.

is this something i should live with or have remedied??? i don't know if calling customer support will help any.......this is my 3rd attempt at this t.v.- talk abou bad luck!!

thx
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post #814 of 4672 Old 06-23-2009, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveStl View Post

So I guess the question is: with the color "flickering" problem that appears to not have been addressed up to this point, is the V5100 series TV worth the Sony price premium? I really had my mind made up to get the Sharp 52E77U, but I made the mistake of seeing a 52V5100 today and I have to admit the picture was amazing, even with the store settings enabled. I'm colorblind, so chances are I won't notice the red flickering, but I can imagine my wife will give me all kinds of grief if I drop the extra cash on a TV with a known issue.

-Dave

Sharp hasn't made the greatest TV's in the last couple of years. Also, is the color flickering on all connections and all settings, or is it just one input or a combination of settings that is exhibiting the issue?

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Originally Posted by jay2boo View Post

is this something i should live with or have remedied??? i don't know if calling customer support will help any.......this is my 3rd attempt at this t.v.- talk abou bad luck!!

thx

Well, the only remedy is a panel replacement, but there's no guarantee that the replacement panel won't have any flashlighting. It's also up to Sony to decide whether you get a replacement or not. If you've purchased the TV from a brick and mortar store, it's advised you deal with them as much as you can, as they're usually hassle free with returning stuff within 30 days. Constantly returning the TV for a replacement is up to you, but all LCD's from all LCD manufacturers have screen defects, so you may get a TV with uniformity issues from a different company. It's hit and miss if you'll get a good unit that has very minimal screen uniformity issues. Honestly, I hate screen uniformity issues, but if they were minor enough that I didn't notice them under any normal viewing situations, I'd just keep the set.

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post #815 of 4672 Old 06-23-2009, 05:09 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolowl View Post

I've never seen flashlighting on my Sony so it's certainly not all of them so that's good.[IMG]http://***************/9/P/i.jpg[/IMG]

Yeah what if the flashlighting is a good thing then..
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post #816 of 4672 Old 06-23-2009, 06:02 PM
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Dave, I don't even see the color flickering that some have talked about so it must not be that much. I would think that by now I would have seen it and since I haven't I either am lucky to have gotten a set without it or it's just not that big of a deal with me.

I have a feeling some of the writers/viewers in this forum are...more keenly aware of these issues than some of people. Perhaps they are more sensitive to some of these issues because they've dealt with them on past models and know what to look for. For example, I never even heard of flashlights until I read this forum. I still have never seen them and I've had mine for two months now.

This is my first HD TV and I'm just blown away by how good it looks. The HD channels are GREAT. For the past couple of years I've seen my sister's Samsung every time I visited and thought it was amazing. But my Sony is way better than hers. I mean WAY better!

Some (but not all) of the SD channels are also excellent. In fact, they are so good I have to remind myself that they are only 480. Some of them aren't so good and at first that really disappointed me. I thought something was wrong. Doing the calibration helped but I didn't understand why some channels looked so poor. All I can figure out is that it must not be the TV. Since some SD channels are so good, the ones that aren't as good must be because of the signal sent out because the TV can certainly show an excellent SD image.

I'm sure no one wants to say or admit that they wasted their money or bought an inferior TV. But I'm genuinely pleased with this TV and I'm a guy that once bought 3 TV's in the same day (kept returning them because I wasn't satisifed). This Sony TV is the same one that was here 2 months ago and I bet it'll be here for many years. Gosh, I sound like a salesman. Don't mean to do that. Just trying to give my honest opinion. If you live near Lexington, KY you can come by and see it if you want.
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post #817 of 4672 Old 06-23-2009, 06:12 PM
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Nicely said coolowl. I guess I should thank you, but it appears you have just made my decision much harder once again! I sure looks like a great TV to me, and knowing the SD picture is good as well might just be the topper for me.

-Dave
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post #818 of 4672 Old 06-23-2009, 06:52 PM
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Remember...it's good (real good) on some SD channels but not good on others. I think my local cable company just must not be sending out as good a picture as they could...or they don't receive it correctly. I don't know. The FX channel for SD is outstanding. Most of the ESPN SD shows are excellent. WGN is not so good. Hallmark is excellent. The Discovery Channel not so good. It's like hit and miss. Fortunately, I get the Discovery Channel in HD so that's where I watch it. But I don't get WGN and a few others in HD so I still need the SD signal for those.

Good advice would be to make sure of the return policy from where you buy it and if you're not happy take it back. For me, that meant buying local (because I was too unsure about sending a TV back any other way). I spent more but it was worth it for free delivery and the assurance of the local store to come pick it up if I were unhappy.
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post #819 of 4672 Old 06-24-2009, 01:37 AM
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I've had my eye on this V series since February. It's completely bang for buck with CFL. Bought two 52V5100's from crutchfield. Delivery was free with their own freight services. Great experience with them as usual. Parents say it's amazing life like watching HD content. Girlfriend loves it also with PS3 content.

Thanks to serialmike for the settings.

"I should really see what dB levels I'm pushing. Long as it can't foam my beer during a movie we are ok "
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post #820 of 4672 Old 06-24-2009, 01:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joakley007 View Post

I tried using Guitar Hero to measure input lag, but I think it really just measures the difference between video/audio sync. In my case, I've adjusted my TV and audio system so that they are in sync - thus Guitar Hero gives 0 ms for me.

However, I have a very good feeling for lag since I play a lot of Smash Bros. (Melee and Brawl). I can detect an input lag of even 1 or 2 frames (17 to 33 ms) at 60 frames per second when trying to perform advanced techniques. My best guess is that the input lag is somewhere around 20 to 30 ms for this TV using component video cables from a Wii and Game Mode ON for the TV. It's not so bad that I cannot use it to play Smash Bros., but it is slightly noticeable and definitely feels different than a CRT.

As for Motion Flow, I cannot comment on how this works since I always keep it off. I'm not sure where you got the numbers 900 lines and 400 lines, but I don't think that has anything to do with Motion Flow. The resolution you have is dependent on the source material, but the TV will always up-convert lower resolutions to its native 1920x1080 (this and other video processing are the reasons for input lag). The closer your source is to the native resolution of the TV, the less input lag you should experience.

Thanks a lot for the reply. I hadn't even noticed it at first, even though it was the first reply after my post.

I take it you got that 17-33ms number from the UK Sony W series review? I'm trying to understand if he meant 17-33ms, or if he meant 17-33ms on top of the 30ms the F96 reference set has. He says:

Quote:


By activating [Game Mode] through the [Scene Select] submenu, input lag can be brought down to 17-33ms vs. the Samsung F96

I think he means on top of the 30ms the F96 has, but if so, he didn't word it very well.

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post #821 of 4672 Old 06-24-2009, 07:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yukon Trooper View Post

I take it you got that 17-33ms number from the UK Sony W series review?

I came up with those numbers myself since 1 frame at 60 Hz is about 17 ms, and 2 frames at 60 Hz is about 33 ms (just doing a little math). My "feel" for the game of Smash Bros. tells me that the input lag is there, but not more than 1 or 2 frames since I can still perform techniques that require frame perfect precision without too much adaptation required.

By the way, when I played around with the Guitar Hero calibration more, I got varied numbers from 0 ms to 30 ms - usually around 8 ms to 17 ms.

Keep in mind that this lag is for the Wii with component video cables. If you use composite video, you'll definitely notice the lag more.


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post #822 of 4672 Old 06-24-2009, 10:53 AM
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I have some new settings.


EDIT-These are now my new settings and are no longer my beta.

I think the hardcode on the HDMI might be the same if not very very similar to the HDMI color
Settings for HDMI input (Im still using these for non HDMI also.)

User Menu Setting
Picture Mode : Standard
Backlight : 4
Picture : 80
Brightness : 46
Color : 47
Hue : 0
Color Temperature : Warm
Sharpness : 8
Noise Reduction : Off
Advanced Contrast Enhancer : Low
Gamma : Off
Clear White : Off
Live Color : Off

Advanced Settings
White Balance :
Rgain-1
Ggain Max
Bgain Max
Rbias -4
Gbias +5
Bbias 0


Motion Enhancer : Standard
Cinemotion : Auto 2
Game Mode : Off

Eco (In setup section)
Backlight-On
Pc Power Management-Off
Light Sensor-Off

Screen settings
Full
Vertical -4 and Horizontal size -4 (If you see the edge of the screen you may need to use a higher number)

If you are going to use Cinemotion Use Auto 2 If you use the motion enhancer. If you do not use motion enchancement(interpolation) Use Auto 2
(Edit- I have recently found a real liking for Motion Flow when combined with Auto2(3:2) Pulldown only mode. It seems to smooth image out with no real soap opera effect.

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post #823 of 4672 Old 06-24-2009, 11:09 AM
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I have the kdl-V5100 and the red color flashing is extremely noticable, especially with ace set at medium or high. An obvious way to see it on my set is by hitting info on my direct tv remote which drops the info banner down and triggers the color flashing almost everytime. It shows up almost everytime when I do this with closeups on faces, especially white or tan faces. I prefer to have ace set at medium as the detail is incredible but the flashing can become unbearable so I pust it at low. I really hope a firmware update comes out to fix this.
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post #824 of 4672 Old 06-24-2009, 12:39 PM
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Is there much of an improvement from the V4100 in terms of pq? Most stores in my area have them for about the same price..
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post #825 of 4672 Old 06-25-2009, 05:55 AM
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Originally Posted by ntrisKKT View Post

Is there much of an improvement from the V4100 in terms of pq? Most stores in my area have them for about the same price..

From what I observed in the store there was a noticeable difference in the On-Screen Contrast Ratio : 5,000:1 on the v5100 compared to the On-Screen Contrast Ratio : 2,500:1 on the v4100. It was significant enough to my eye to cause me not to look any farther than that.
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post #826 of 4672 Old 06-25-2009, 06:02 AM
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The new settings are now my settings. They are just much more natural. The red flash is gone as far as I can tell with these settings woot

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post #827 of 4672 Old 06-25-2009, 12:13 PM
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Ok all, Here it is straight from Sony tier2 tech.

Luke called me just a moment ago. IIIIIIII Know! Score 1 for sony tech.

He talked with engineering. They are now aware of my flash red color complaint. He stated I am the first one to get a complaint up to engineering level about this. He stated they keep a file. Call, get to tech level 2 reference Luke. They are listening (they await our calls). They will need more than just me to look at this.

He also stated that yes there is a newer firmware than the one posted just as our 2 people here have on their new sets. He said this will be available there is no date when.

Again, I seem to have fixed the color flashing with a new calibration adjustment of my set. I did let Luke know that if i set the set with certain settings there was flashing and that a new calibration of my set seemed to certainly diminish the effect. He said he will update them with the new information.

There you have it help the cause It's up to us now.

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post #828 of 4672 Old 06-25-2009, 12:45 PM
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Good for you.

A separate issue for me is sound. Am I the only one having this trouble? Sometimes when I go to a different channel the sound is garbled - like there's a little echo. The only way to clear it is to leave the channel and then return. Is anyone else having this?
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post #829 of 4672 Old 06-25-2009, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serialmike View Post

He also stated that yes there is a newer firmware than the one posted just as our 2 people here have on their new sets. He said this will be available there is no date when.

Mike,

Is there any way to download the firmware from the set?

Still waiting - Sony said about two more weeks.
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post #830 of 4672 Old 06-25-2009, 12:53 PM
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Sorry if I missed this above...

I'm wondering if there is a setting on the TV that will help aleviate a loud sound POP when changing DVT channels on the TV (using TV tuner)?

It happens once in a while when changing channels, but is quite loud.

Thanks
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post #831 of 4672 Old 06-25-2009, 02:13 PM
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Cuc TV, yes there is a change you can make to rid yourself of that pop sound when changing channels. It's likely occurring when you go from a SD channel to an HD and visa versa (at least that's when it happened for me). Here are some previous notes about it.

If you have Direct TV:
"Mine pops also, but only if my Direct tv box is set to "native resolution". So the pop happens when the box changes from say 1080i to 720 etc. Turning off native resolution took care of it."

If you have a Motorola cable box:
"Turn off the power to the box with the tv on. Press menu and you will be brought to a menu for the boxes options."
"...change the SD override from 480i to off".
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post #832 of 4672 Old 06-25-2009, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolowl View Post

Cuc TV, yes there is a change you can make in your cable box. See previous notes about it. I'll see if I can find it quickly for you and post it.

If you have Direct TV:
"Mine pops also, but only if my Direct tv box is set to "native resolution". So the pop happens when the box changes from say 1080i to 720 etc. Turning off native resolution took care of it."

If you have a Motorola cable box:
"Turn off the power to the box with the tv on. Press menu and you will be brought to a menu for the boxes options."
Then,



No cable box. I'm using antenna and TV tuner, and it pops when changing channels on the TV.
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post #833 of 4672 Old 06-25-2009, 02:49 PM
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Maybe the guys with the new firmware cam chime in. I would be willing to be that the pop sound is is fixed in new version of firmware.

Just a guess mind you but id bet

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post #834 of 4672 Old 06-25-2009, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serialmike View Post

The new settings are now my settings. They are just much more natural. The red flash is gone as far as I can tell with these settings woot

Where did the Rgain,Ggain,Bgain,Rbias,Gbias,Bbias settings disappear to?
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post #835 of 4672 Old 06-25-2009, 07:34 PM
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239-768-7547
Hours: Mon-Fri 8:00AM-12:00AM (Midnight) / Sat-Sun 9:00AM-8:00PM ET

Just the standard sony support number for TV on thier site.
Then I kept escalating the call till i got to tier2.

The agent I spoke with was Luke in tier2.

I removed the white balance as I find that default was just plain better

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post #836 of 4672 Old 06-26-2009, 08:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serialmike View Post

Maybe the guys with the new firmware cam chime in. I would be willing to be that the pop sound is is fixed in new version of firmware.

Just a guess mind you but id bet

Unfortunately it is not fixed in the newest firmware release 4.01. I am going to try disabling dynamic compression for audio this weekend on my cable box and see if that makes a difference. I can confirm though that the pop only seems to happen when the TV is changing resolution modes.
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post #837 of 4672 Old 06-26-2009, 08:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xchair View Post

Serialmike

I'll try to give SONY a call tomorrow. Too bad there is not a email address. I'm much better at describing and communicating thru an email than playing the game of kick me up the phone ladder.

On another note. I can't go with your current screen set up.
For me the backlighting number of 4 is too low. Its just a bit too dull at that setting for my taste. 4 seems to give everything a veil that cuts down on the contrast ratio. One thing I love about this SONY is its contrast ratio.
Also I find the HUE G2 setting to add too much green to the matrix. It feels as if skin tones are being infringed with a very subtle green at times. Skin tones are still warmish but somehow the more contrasty areas feel as if green wants to infringe.

Perhaps my tastes are too pedestrian but I find the standard settings at reset to be pretty good. For a while I went between Neutral and Warm but I found myself going back to neutral because the Warm setting was somehow muting and negating the blues of the image. Particularly scenes that show the blue sky. Again I wish the Things like color temperature had a more adjustable numerical slider rather than the 3 settings of Cool, Neutral, and Warm.

I agree with you on the warm settings. The picture simply has too much of an umber color cast imho. Also I do see the same green push to shadow areas around faces, hair etc. I have been able to adjust this out mostly by going with a hue value of R5 and then changing the red and green gain and bias values in the advanced color settings, white balance area. Still fiddling with it though. (so I haven't posted anything) I will when I come up with something I think is worthy of being shared.
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post #838 of 4672 Old 06-26-2009, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xchair View Post

Serialmike

I'll try to give SONY a call tomorrow. Too bad there is not a email address. I'm much better at describing and communicating thru an email than playing the game of kick me up the phone ladder.

On another note. I can't go with your current screen set up.
For me the backlighting number of 4 is too low. Its just a bit too dull at that setting for my taste. 4 seems to give everything a veil that cuts down on the contrast ratio. One thing I love about this SONY is its contrast ratio.
Also I find the HUE G2 setting to add too much green to the matrix. It feels as if skin tones are being infringed with a very subtle green at times. Skin tones are still warmish but somehow the more contrasty areas feel as if green wants to infringe.

Perhaps my tastes are too pedestrian but I find the standard settings at reset to be pretty good. For a while I went between Neutral and Warm but I found myself going back to neutral because the Warm setting was somehow muting and negating the blues of the image. Particularly scenes that show the blue sky. Again I wish the Things like color temperature had a more adjustable numerical slider rather than the 3 settings of Cool, Neutral, and Warm.

Still tweaking the new style settings

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post #839 of 4672 Old 06-26-2009, 10:13 AM
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I prefer the nuetral setting as well. I like the warm setting for cinema mode though as it seems to hide the color flashing a bit since the picture is already pushing the red it becomes less noticable.
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post #840 of 4672 Old 06-26-2009, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serialmike View Post

239-768-7547
Hours: Mon-Fri 8:00AM-12:00AM (Midnight) / Sat-Sun 9:00AM-8:00PM ET

Just the standard sony support number for TV on thier site.
Then I kept escalating the call till i got to tier2.

The agent I spoke with was Luke in tier2.

I removed the white balance as I find that default was just plain better

I'll try to give them a call soon since I've also noticed the red flashing on skin tones from time to time. Perhaps they'll fix it, but even if they don't, it doesn't happen enough to bother me a lot. All in all, I'm very impressed with the quality of this TV.


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