Official Samsung LNXXB650 Thread - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 2343 Old 03-20-2009, 01:47 PM - Thread Starter
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I just picked up the Samsung LN46B650. Great so far. More to come!
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post #2 of 2343 Old 03-20-2009, 01:49 PM
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Nice, I saw it at best buy, and it looked very similiar to the A650, but the blacks were clearly better.

How is the AMP function? Does it work better now?
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post #3 of 2343 Old 03-20-2009, 02:11 PM
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Awesome! Are you able to some input lag testing with it? Specifically while in Game Mode?

http://tft.vanity.dk/

Oh yeah, any flash-lights?
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post #4 of 2343 Old 03-20-2009, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vincevega44 View Post

How is the AMP function? Does it work better now?

That's what I want to know. I know the PQ is gunna be outstand, even if it has the same PQ of 2008. Is AMP any better though?

Your LCD lags. Learn about input lag and be disenchanted by your expensive LCD set.

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post #5 of 2343 Old 03-20-2009, 03:19 PM
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No point in the "XX" in the thread title if you put the size in there anyway haah, take out the 46 part my friend.

I work at BestBuy out in NewYork and the new 650 seems to have a nice picture on dynamic/vivid mode in the store, but of course thats no test to how it will hold up at home in standard mode or while calibrated. I would like to see it ISF calibrated first to really compair...The new 650 has an ugly V shape bottom to it, it looks kinda goofy in my opinion. I have the a650 and I love it, id say pick that up for the cheeper price tag if you still can whether than paying 2x for the B model...That is unless you wana goto the Luxia [led backlit] models..those are sexyyy
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post #6 of 2343 Old 03-20-2009, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by KVW View Post

That's what I want to know. I know the PQ is gunna be outstand, even if it has the same PQ of 2008. Is AMP any better though?

What was wrong with the AMP on the A650? Mine had no problems with it at all.
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post #7 of 2343 Old 03-20-2009, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d34dl1n3r View Post

Awesome! Are you able to some input lag testing with it? Specifically while in Game Mode?

http://tft.vanity.dk/

Oh yeah, any flash-lights?



Tons....I bought a 46 B650 and kept it for a couple of hours till it got dark and I could test it.Great picture till the Clouds roll in all over the place and flashlights on all 4 corners. Plus the new wiggelets suck. Very slow. I was hoping you could watch internet video like sonys internetlink. No such luck.
I took it back that day and got another XBR6. Thats a great set. No defects or worries.
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post #8 of 2343 Old 03-20-2009, 04:48 PM
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Shouldn't this just be the B650 thread? Anyways, I'll be getting my set Tuesday now, after some shipping problems.
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post #9 of 2343 Old 03-20-2009, 06:17 PM
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Just picked up the LN-40B650. I had a LN40A750 (Which I am giving to my sister). I'll give you my honest opinion right after I get it calibrated tomorrow. I am also getting my Pioneer Elite 111fd Calibrated as well, so I hope there is no Plasma vs. LCD war in here. I'll post the results here for the LCD after calibration. I have not had a chance to mess around with the settings, but so far, no halo effect (which I had like crazy on the A750!). However, the viewing angle is still horrible Just a few degrees off from center and it starts to get washed out. Ah well.. Also, I noticed that the black levels are a little better than the A series. To be continued......
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post #10 of 2343 Old 03-20-2009, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d34dl1n3r View Post

What was wrong with the AMP on the A650? Mine had no problems with it at all.


There is nothing wrong with auto motion plus on your TV but keep in mind AMP was improved on the 2008 A650 series over the 2007 71F series....

The B series of 120/240Hz sammies are supposed to have 4 AMP settings instead of just 3 and setting #4 is supposedly a custom(izable) setting.....naturally, there is mucho excitement and curiosity concerning this fact
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post #11 of 2343 Old 03-20-2009, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by d34dl1n3r View Post

What was wrong with the AMP on the A650? Mine had no problems with it at all.

I see tons of artifacting (halo, triple ball, etc) which is just errors in it's frame interpolation method. I dunno why but more so than general PQ, my eye catches this stuff and it bothers me to no end. It's getting better every year and this will be samsung's 3rd generation of doing frame interpolation and I'm hoping they've cleaned it up even more...

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post #12 of 2343 Old 03-20-2009, 06:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KLee View Post

There is nothing wrong with auto motion plus on your TV but keep in mind AMP was improved on the 2008 A650 series over the 2007 71F series....

The B series of 120/240Hz sammies are supposed to have 4 AMP settings instead of just 3 and setting #4 is supposedly a custom(izable) setting.....naturally, there is mucho excitement and curiosity concerning this fact

Yes, there is a custom AMP setting where you can adjust both the level of motion blur and judder reduction. You adjust on a sliding scale from 0-10.
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post #13 of 2343 Old 03-20-2009, 07:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff909 View Post

Tons....I bought a 46 B650 and kept it for a couple of hours till it got dark and I could test it.Great picture till the Clouds roll in all over the place and flashlights on all 4 corners. Plus the new wiggelets suck. Very slow. I was hoping you could watch internet video like sonys internetlink. No such luck.
I took it back that day and got another XBR6. Thats a great set. No defects or worries.

Thanks. The flashlights & clouding was the exact reason why I returned my 46A650. Guess I'm still stuck with my old 27" tube crt until the Vizio 551 comes out. That is, if the Vizio even gets good ratings.
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post #14 of 2343 Old 03-20-2009, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Wonderful View Post

Shouldn't this just be the B650 thread? Anyways, I'll be getting my set Tuesday now, after some shipping problems.

Well, it should be the LNXXB650 thread.
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post #15 of 2343 Old 03-23-2009, 10:42 AM
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Hi all...

Just got my LN-40B650 as well as my LN40A750 calibrated by Kevin Miller (Who was great, BTW). Initial impressions...

LN40B650 color temps were way too high out of the box. The readings were all around 11K and Kevin had to adjust them down to 6500. Comparing the post calibrated TVs, the B650 had better black levels, less clouding and blooming than the A750 (not by much though). Also, the B650 had no halo effect (around the outer rims of the tv). On the A750, it was horrible!! Picture quality on the B650 was a little better, probably due to the higher contrast ratio. Motion wise, both were about the same, and they both still suffer from the LCD viewing angle problem. Cosmetically, I hate the fact that the B650 has the "chin" again. The A750 looks better in my opinion. Also, the speakers are still better on the A750.

Conclusion,
The B650 is a great TV. However, is it worth the extra $$ over the A750? I'm not too sure. Picture-wise, they are pretty similar, but if better black levels and slightly better PQ are important to you, then get the B650. Otherwise, stay with the A series until you can get something considerably better.

Let me know if you have any other questions about the B650. I'll be happy to answer them.
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post #16 of 2343 Old 03-23-2009, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by drool6 View Post

Hi all...

Just got my LN-40B650 as well as my LN40A750 calibrated by Kevin Miller (Who was great, BTW). Initial impressions...

LN40B650 color temps were way too high out of the box. The readings were all around 11K and Kevin had to adjust them down to 6500. Comparing the post calibrated TVs, the B650 had better black levels, less clouding and blooming than the A750 (not by much though). Also, the B650 had no halo effect (around the outer rims of the tv). On the A750, it was horrible!! Picture quality on the B650 was a little better, probably due to the higher contrast ratio. Motion wise, both were about the same, and they both still suffer from the LCD viewing angle problem. Cosmetically, I hate the fact that the B650 has the "chin" again. The A750 looks better in my opinion. Also, the speakers are still better on the A750.

Conclusion,
The B650 is a great TV. However, is it worth the extra $$ over the A750? I'm not too sure. Picture-wise, they are pretty similar, but if better black levels and slightly better PQ are important to you, then get the B650. Otherwise, stay with the A series until you can get something considerably better.

Let me know if you have any other questions about the B650. I'll be happy to answer them.

Amount of flash-lighting on your B650?
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post #17 of 2343 Old 03-23-2009, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by drool6 View Post

Hi all...

Just got my LN-40B650 as well as my LN40A750 calibrated by Kevin Miller (Who was great, BTW). Initial impressions...

LN40B650 color temps were way too high out of the box. The readings were all around 11K and Kevin had to adjust them down to 6500. Comparing the post calibrated TVs, the B650 had better black levels, less clouding and blooming than the A750 (not by much though). Also, the B650 had no halo effect (around the outer rims of the tv). On the A750, it was horrible!! Picture quality on the B650 was a little better, probably due to the higher contrast ratio. Motion wise, both were about the same, and they both still suffer from the LCD viewing angle problem. Cosmetically, I hate the fact that the B650 has the "chin" again. The A750 looks better in my opinion. Also, the speakers are still better on the A750.

Conclusion,
The B650 is a great TV. However, is it worth the extra $$ over the A750? I'm not too sure. Picture-wise, they are pretty similar, but if better black levels and slightly better PQ are important to you, then get the B650. Otherwise, stay with the A series until you can get something considerably better.

Let me know if you have any other questions about the B650. I'll be happy to answer them.

Could you post some pics of your set? Im curious of the off angle wash out.
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post #18 of 2343 Old 03-23-2009, 11:26 AM
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Could you post some pics of your set? Im curious of the off angle wash out.

Off angle washout is still as bad as my A750, unfortunately....
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post #19 of 2343 Old 03-23-2009, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by d34dl1n3r View Post

Amount of flash-lighting on your B650?

I'll have to look at that one more carefully, but inital impressions are that they seem to suffer the same amount as the A series... i'll confirm once I get the proper test source material....
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post #20 of 2343 Old 03-23-2009, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff909 View Post

Tons....I bought a 46 B650 and kept it for a couple of hours till it got dark and I could test it.Great picture till the Clouds roll in all over the place and flashlights on all 4 corners. Plus the new wiggelets suck. Very slow. I was hoping you could watch internet video like sonys internetlink. No such luck.
I took it back that day and got another XBR6. Thats a great set. No defects or worries.

Why didn't you bring it back and try a different set?? Maybe it was a bad one...
Does the KDL-46XBR6 have internet linking like the B650??
Also how is the off angle viewing compare between the two??
Is there as much control over Motion settings with the XBR6??(the B650 has a AMP Slider control in increments 1-10)

Come one Jeff you had the two in your house, give us some details lol
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post #21 of 2343 Old 03-23-2009, 05:25 PM
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Unfortunately there is a little flashlighting in the four corners of the B650. However, they are not noticeable at all unless I take my DSLR and take a picture of it. I'll try to post pics of it later on once I figure out how to use the DSLR more... My eye-analysis shows no noticeable clouding. On the A750, all of the problems I mentioned were way worse and noticeable to the eye... the B650... not so much.
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post #22 of 2343 Old 03-24-2009, 09:04 AM
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Went back to Sears to look the B650 over good again today(Our local Best Buy still does not have any LN46B650 TVs and when I asked the salesman about it he checked the computer, there were 530 in the warehouse but NONE scheduled to be shipped to our local store, not even for next week.. He was kind of peeved, he said how the hell do they expect us to sell them if they won't even ship us one for display).
Back to Sears, the B650 looked even better this time, it was next to a Sony XBR6, Sony V5100 and a A650. I tinkered with all the controls on the XBR6 and B650, I was very impressed with the AMP options on the B650, two sliders in increments of 0-10, one slider for Blur the other for Judder. Picture difference I give the nod to the B650 but the XBR and A650 was very very close, just the WOW factor was a tad greater on the B650 ALTHOUGH there was an instance where the programming display show a bright yellow caution sign and it was much brighter on the XBR, practically jumped out at you where on the A650 and B650 it did not, found that strange seeing the B650 colors in general were brighter, Blacks edge also goes to the B650. Side note, the more I see the "chin" design on the B650 the less it bothers me, I might even be getting to like it with the clear pedestal post on the base.
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post #23 of 2343 Old 03-24-2009, 10:57 AM
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A Leno B650?
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post #24 of 2343 Old 03-24-2009, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Beeper View Post

A Leno B650?

Didn't you know that's what the LN is for? Le-No!
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post #25 of 2343 Old 03-24-2009, 12:28 PM
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Unfortunately there is a little flashlighting in the four corners of the B650. However, they are not noticeable at all unless I take my DSLR and take a picture of it. I'll try to post pics of it later on once I figure out how to use the DSLR more... My eye-analysis shows no noticeable clouding. On the A750, all of the problems I mentioned were way worse and noticeable to the eye... the B650... not so much.

I just picked up a B650 last night. I too see a slight flashlighting in all four corners. It's very slight, but obviously there in a pitch black room.

I only had 30 mins to play with it (it was late) but I would say the AMP *IS* better than previous generations, at least over my a750. Other first impressions is it is an overall brighter screen. Also, without tweaking much outta the box, default settings, it seems as though the sharpness is VERY high (while being only at 50). Everything is a bit more jaggie in windows and pictures look over sharpened. Especially compared to the a750 at the same sharpness level.

I'll be doing a lag comparison between my a750 as well. Not sure which one I'll keep, the b650 did cost me 150 bucks more. At least the menu doesn't lag like hell like the a750.

To be continued...

Your LCD lags. Learn about input lag and be disenchanted by your expensive LCD set.

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post #26 of 2343 Old 03-24-2009, 01:13 PM
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I just got my 40B650 in finally today, and while I haven't done any extensive tweaking, I do have some initial impressions.

First off would have to be just the wow factor as to how much LCDs have improved in the last two or three years since I bought my LC26D40U. The black levels were just OMG when I first turned it on, completely uncalibrated in comparison to the old Sharp. My one concern in the painless setup experience is that the power cord doesn't exactly fit very snugly into the back of the TV, to the point where it was knocked out once while I was moving it around connecting all my devices.

One complaint is that the menus are a little slow. It's kind of weird to have menus on the TV having speed/lag issues, but seeing how complicated sets have gotten these days, the minor annoyance is not surprising.

The first thing I tested out after the set up was WipeoutHD for the PS3. WipeoutHD, for those of you who do not know, is an extremely fast racing game that requires twitch reflexes, which I thought would be a perfect test to find out how susceptible to input lag I am. The game was also a great choice because it runs at 1080p natively at 60 frames per second, so it would really demonstrate the capabilities of the set. Jumping from 720p on my old set or even the 1080i on my Toshiba to 1080p on the 650 alone seemed to give me a new edge in the racing. I didn't notice any lag with Game Mode off, though I'm sure it is there, given the UK review of the set. All in all, WipeoutHD was a great and very enjoyable experience on the set.

Next, I tried out a PS2 game that I was currently playing, which was being upscaled by the PS3, Persona 3 FES. Compared to on both the Sharp and the Toshiba, the image seemed to show absolutely every single flaw in the polygons, with lots of aliasing. I already had one sharpening setting off, but I'll have to look to see if there are any other ones that might help to hide the jaggies. Here, however, is the first place where I noticed the Auto Motion Plus in action. The jaggies may have been slightly worse, but the movement was soo smooth. It felt weird, but good/beautiful.

And that's where I stopped playing around with the set. I did turn on Discovery HD for a little bit to see what the HD Feeds look like, but that wasn't anything more than expected. My cable source likes to compress the hell out of the digital channels.

Like I said, no real tests or calibration at this point, but so far, a beautiful set.
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post #27 of 2343 Old 03-24-2009, 08:41 PM
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Any more reviews on B650? The price on the River is now only $300 more than the A650. Worth spending extra $300?
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Great posts Mr. Wonderful and KVW,
KVW is the addition of the two sliders for Blur and Judder a BIG help vs the old AMP system of low, med High?? I would think you can tweak the crap out of it now with these two sliders..
KVW I am very interested to hear more on your observations seeing you have a A750 to compare it with. It's one thing to compare them in a store but a completely different comparison at home, much more accurate I would say.
The flashlighting concerns me a bit being in all four corners, is it a problem and/or really distracting??
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post #29 of 2343 Old 03-25-2009, 07:37 AM
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Great posts Mr. Wonderful and KVW,
KVW is the addition of the two sliders for Blur and Judder a BIG help vs the old AMP system of low, med High?? I would think you can tweak the crap out of it now with these two sliders..
KVW I am very interested to hear more on your observations seeing you have a A750 to compare it with. It's one thing to compare them in a store but a completely different comparison at home, much more accurate I would say.
The flashlighting concerns me a bit being in all four corners, is it a problem and/or really distracting??

I looked at my TV in not complete darkness, but rainy day curtain closed darkness, and I could see some very faint flashlighting around the bottom edge of the screen. It was hardly noticeable however, and most definitely not a reason to not get the set. I'll have to look at the set again in pitch-black darkness tonight.

Concerning the AMP tweaking, according to the UK review, the custom settings basically allows you to keep the motion resolution while minimizing the false off-putting motion smoothness.

And two pictures of the set off, in case somebody hasn't seen the set in person yet:


You can see the ToC more than you do in real life in the first pic. In reality it is much more like the second picture.


I thought the Touch of Color and the "chin" on the set might have bothered me, judging by the pictures on the website, but it turns out that like last year's ToC sets, the red is hardly noticeable, and the chin isn't really exactly a Jay Leno.

My roommate watched some SD TV last night, and while of course I didn't get to play with the settings during that time, the picture was much better than my Sharp's, but there were some very apparent artifacts, double clear lines of sorts (from sharpness settings?) throughout the picture that were a little annoying close to the screen. Also, there was some noise around the text. Like I said, I'll have to play around with those settings.
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post #30 of 2343 Old 03-25-2009, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by KVW View Post

I just picked up a B650 last night. I too see a slight flashlighting in all four corners. It's very slight, but obviously there in a pitch black room.

I only had 30 mins to play with it (it was late) but I would say the AMP *IS* better than previous generations, at least over my a750. Other first impressions is it is an overall brighter screen. Also, without tweaking much outta the box, default settings, it seems as though the sharpness is VERY high (while being only at 50). Everything is a bit more jaggie in windows and pictures look over sharpened. Especially compared to the a750 at the same sharpness level.

I'll be doing a lag comparison between my a750 as well. Not sure which one I'll keep, the b650 did cost me 150 bucks more. At least the menu doesn't lag like hell like the a750.

To be continued...

I too have no lag...so far.. on my B650 menus. After about 5 days with both calibrated sets, I certainly am liking the B650 a lot better than the A750.. My calibrater also mentioned that the PQ and black levels were better on the B650 as well...
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