Input lag wars!, post your input lag results of your LCD display here for reference - Page 116 - AVS Forum
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post #3451 of 4253 Old 02-08-2012, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by thepoohcontinuum View Post

Good grief man, calm down. You don't have to take everything as a personal attack (which I wasn't even going for).

Can I get an Amen?
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post #3452 of 4253 Old 02-08-2012, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Guibs View Post

I've read good things about the ex720 and input lag. My only issue with the set which makes me hesitate is coulding which, like all edge led without local dimming, can be a hit or miss depending if you're lucky with the panel you get.

Apparently the 3D is just plain bad on this TV so make you 3D is not a main feature for you. If it wasn't for clouding, I'd settle for the ex720 myself. I don't want to take the chance and have to return a tv a few times. I already did last year and abandoned with Sony's hx701 (it wasn't even a LED, it was an LCD).

Yeah 3d is not a problem for me, I want it for my secondary visual display behind my projector screen so I can save lamp life when I can not be bothered using the projector and when I just want to do a recording haha.

My main issue is the differences in the input lag tests between the one stated in this forum and the UK test. I am from Australia so technically we should have this "22ms" version (if indeed they are different panels), but my main concern is if the displays are indeed the same then there was an error in someones testing. Is this TV infact 2 frames of lag or just 1.4 frames of lag.

Either way it is still very good, but a confirmation would be ideal.
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post #3453 of 4253 Old 02-08-2012, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Hi Def Fan View Post

Yeah I actually considered the 37" version, but when I finally managed to find a store with pristine video feed (Video Only), I noticed the distance I had planed to view it from for net and game use looked too close, so I went with the 32". The 37" size was really only a consideration to avoid the dreaded feel of the picture looking too small (esp in letterbox AR) when seated at movie watching distance, but even the 7.5' I view it from for movies is plenty good, without closeups looking too big as they can on larger sets.

On price, I couldn't have timed my purchase better. I was insisting on Best Buy or Amazon, since both allow free 30 day returns for any reason. I worried I'd missed the peak holiday price drop when I passed on it for $350 at Amazon before Xmas, only to see it shoot back up, then not be available direct through them at all for some time.

Low and behold as the Superbowl neared, Amazon got them back in stock in good numbers and kept dropping it's price incrementally from $400. When it got down to $355 about a week before the Superbowl, I sprung for it. They're only supposed to honor their low price guarantee once within 14 days after shipping, but since I noticed it drop to $349 just before it shipped, they adjusted it and still allowed the 14 day price protection.

The Fri before the Superbowl it dropped to $330. I knew since the lowest I'd ever seen it over the holidays was $327 at Provantage, I better use my one time price protection adjustment. Sure enough the very next day it shot back up. It's currently at $398, but through a sub vendor, so you don't get free shipping and free 30 day returns, but no tax if there's no Amazon in your state.

I learned last model year not to wait past the Superbowl, or even too close to it on Panasonics, esp popular models. Panasonic doesn't make mass quantities of sets like LG does. They've gotten good at metering production to sales, and reduce their overhead by it. So you can get a pretty decent quality set from them at a good price if you time it right, without any crazy panel lottery. That said, I'm actually glad I didn't spend nearly twice as much on their D2 37" I was looking at last year. This is a better set overall IMO, and more appropriate sizing for my needs.

One last thing Fusion, it's not really a mistake to have waited as long as you have to switch over to LCD, esp if you're on a budget like I am. Many a LCD set has come and gone in the 4 years I had my CRT HDTV, and pretty much ALL in an affordable price range had unacceptable tradeoffs. The affordable LCDs really are getting better. The Panny S1 and G1 were great, but even they had worse black crushing than this set, which is something that is very noticeable if you're used to CRT.

Interesting take on your size decision. I'm only going to be sitting around 6 feet away from this set for watching tv, movies, and games; when I'm not laying in my bed. Maybe 32" might be OK for me then, as I also feared on purchasing a set that might be too small for my room.

As far as price, Amazon doesn't have the 32U3 in stock right now and Best Buy has only a handful in my nearby stores last I checked. I will pay tax though. Plus, Provantage seems to charge a lot for shipping to the state of IL for some reason.

You're right about the differences in blacks between LCD's and CRT's. I will keep a keen eye for this when I finally decide on a set that I want. It may just be me though, but all of the flat panel sets I've seen thus far (whether LCD, LED, or Plasma) don't seem to have that smooth, glossy look to the picture that my CRT exhibits. Tradeoffs from going analog to digital I guess.

The main reason I'm also considering the LG is that their LK450 comes with more video inputs and a USB port with a pretty good built-in Media Player that plays most of my video files from a flash drive. There is no video support on the Panasonic U3, only photos via an SD card slot on the side. But like countless others have stated, I'd have to deal with LG's dreaded panel lottery and I'd have to make damn sure that I get one with an S-IPS panel!
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post #3454 of 4253 Old 02-08-2012, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Fusion View Post

Interesting take on your size decision. I'm only going to be sitting around 6 feet away from this set for watching tv, movies, and games; when I'm not laying in my bed. Maybe 32" might be OK for me then, as I also feared on purchasing a set that might be too small for my room.

As far as price, Amazon doesn't have the 32U3 in stock right now and Best Buy has only a handful in my nearby stores last I checked. I will pay tax though. Plus, Provantage seems to charge a lot for shipping to the state of IL for some reason.

You're right about the differences in blacks between LCD's and CRT's. I will keep a keen eye for this when I finally decide on a set that I want. It may just be me though, but all of the flat panel sets I've seen thus far (whether LCD, LED, or Plasma) don't seem to have that smooth, glossy look to the picture that my CRT exhibits. Tradeoffs from going analog to digital I guess.

The main reason I'm also considering the LG is that their LK450 comes with more video inputs and a USB port with a pretty good built-in Media Player that plays most of my video files from a flash drive. There is no video support on the Panasonic U3, only photos via an SD card slot on the side. But like countless others have stated, I'd have to deal with LG's dreaded panel lottery and I'd have to make damn sure that I get one with an S-IPS panel!

Seating distance for me is around 5' when on the net and gaming. A 37" set IMO would be fine at 7+ feet. Whether it's fine at 6' for you would take an in-store test I think. Just make sure you do it in a store that has a clean video feed, because that can definitely affect your decision.

Yeah Provantage used to charge 20 something for shipping, and price finding services still show it at that, but they had problems with the shipping service they were using, and now it's sky high after changing it.

I did a quick check via PriceGrabber which shows PC Connection Express selling it for $373 with free shipping, but the PCCE site shows it as $350, though "on order" vs in stock. DataVision has it in small quantities for $357 with a little over $20 for shipping.

On black levels, let me know if you need help adjusting it if you get this set. I have found using "Light" Black Level with low Back Light setting and medium Brightness works quite well.
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post #3455 of 4253 Old 02-09-2012, 12:15 AM
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Thanks for the info Hi Def! I'll definitely keep your suggestions in mind when I'm back out in the TV battlefield.
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post #3456 of 4253 Old 02-11-2012, 08:08 PM
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LG LK450 vs the 'LG LED 60hz 42LV3500'

Does the LV3500 have the same input lag results as the LK450?
The only reason I would want to switch over is because of the fact that LED backlights contain 'zero' mercury.
But I don't want to sacrifice any amount of input lag. XP

The LK450 and LV3500 are both 60hz(Which boasts less lag than 120hz & 240hz sets)
and are the the lowest entry level sets for both LG's 1080p LCD's and LED's, so I'm guessing 'differen't' back light aside that
they're basically identicle sets and rock the same picture controls and the like?

And too bad LG didn't give either sets a higher size than 47".....Because I really want a 55" set. But it seems once you step up with the
higher models which boast more videoprocessing/120hz and the like there's more input lag. I'd be better off getting a Panasonic S30 or ST30 plasma, but at the same
time i much prefer the brighter, crisper/cleaner, more vivid and pure whites than at LCD/LED produces for videogames. Buying an HDTV for gaming is bloody tricky.
For movies, I'd get a 50"-56" Panasonic ST30 plasma and be done with it.
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post #3457 of 4253 Old 02-13-2012, 07:37 PM
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not sure if I did this right.



Samsung LN32B550, game mode off. I'm reading a lag of 32ms? What do you guys make of this?
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post #3458 of 4253 Old 02-14-2012, 07:22 AM
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are there 'any' 55" 1080p '3D' LED's on the market with low input lag?
Also when turning 'True Motion' off on the LG LK520 does it perform as well as the 'LK450' in the input lag department. Just curious considering the 520 comes in 55"...Although it's not 3D.
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post #3459 of 4253 Old 02-14-2012, 02:10 PM
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iirc the Sony EX720 series has roughly 2 frames of lag. Do some research on it, I am sure you will find the figures in here somewhere.

I have seen on a UK test that they got 22ms when compared to a crt. But a member here has tested it to be 2 frames, roughly 32ms. I do not know if there are different panels between the ntsc and pal versions or if there was an error in testing. Either way, it is probably the best LED of that size, but the 3d is never very flashy on smallish displays to begin with.
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post #3460 of 4253 Old 02-15-2012, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bboy_jonno View Post

iirc the Sony EX720 series has roughly 2 frames of lag. Do some research on it, I am sure you will find the figures in here somewhere.

I have seen on a UK test that they got 22ms when compared to a crt. But a member here has tested it to be 2 frames, roughly 32ms. I do not know if there are different panels between the ntsc and pal versions or if there was an error in testing. Either way, it is probably the best LED of that size, but the 3d is never very flashy on smallish displays to begin with.

I checked out CNET's review and they said the black levels are pretty weak and the screen uniformity isn't so great. HDTV Test UK.com said '33ms' so it's a definit pass....You know, why can't somebody just create a freakin device that hooks up to your Console + TV that basically gets rid of input lag? I hate being completely limmited when buying an HDTV because of how lousy most of them are for gaming.

X3, S30 and ST30 Panasonic 2011 plasma's apperantly boast 16ms each on HDTV Test UK.com but like you said the Pal versions might be yielding different results. i wish somebody could confirm this...
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post #3461 of 4253 Old 02-15-2012, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by WaveBoy View Post

I checked out CNET's review and they said the black levels are pretty weak and the screen uniformity isn't so great. HDTV Test UK.com said '33ms' so it's a definit pass....You know, why can't somebody just create a freakin device that hooks up to your Console + TV that basically gets rid of input lag? I hate being completely limmited when buying an HDTV because of how lousy most of them are for gaming.

X3, S30 and ST30 Panasonic 2011 plasma's apperantly boast 16ms each on HDTV Test UK.com but like you said the Pal versions might be yielding different results. i wish somebody could confirm this...

Yeah I am aware of the panasonics, but like you asked, the LED from Sony seems to be the best in regard to input lag that is above 40" in size. I have one on order, but still, I would really like better. After all, Sony promote thier TVs for 3d gaming, yet most of em suck. It is unfortianate that as digital picture advances I see the input lag getting worse due to all the processing going on.

All I want is a TV that is bigger then 50" that is a LED or OLED that has lag under 20ms. Some day I hope
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post #3462 of 4253 Old 02-16-2012, 02:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Bboy_jonno View Post

Yeah I am aware of the panasonics, but like you asked, the LED from Sony seems to be the best in regard to input lag that is above 40" in size. I have one on order, but still, I would really like better. After all, Sony promote thier TVs for 3d gaming, yet most of em suck. It is unfortianate that as digital picture advances I see the input lag getting worse due to all the processing going on.

All I want is a TV that is bigger then 50" that is a LED or OLED that has lag under 20ms. Some day I hope

I gaurantee those 2012 55" $10,000 Super OLED/OLED's from Samsung and LG will rock some nasty input lag due to all of the crazy processing.

As it is, i'm still unsatisfyed with both LCD/LED and Plasma...LCD & LED's motion handeling drives me nuts half the time when watching movies,
but they're absolutely amazing at producing a bright, super vivid & colorful, clean and crisp picture for gaming.
If i were just a movie dude i wouldn't even Bother with an LCD or LED in the first place.OLED will be the perfect tech, solving LCD/LED's motion handeling problem,
while boasting ridiculous contrast levels, fantastic brightness, colors, the works.

Anyways! I wonder if HDTV Test UK's X3 input lag results are actuallly the same as the NTSC release. 16ms seems to be as good as it gets...
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post #3463 of 4253 Old 02-16-2012, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brenda666 View Post

lcds sux. lets all go back to our crappy ol sd crts n pwnz teh laggy hdtv noobz!

lol LCD's do 'suck' in the Motion department and they let off such a pissy hazy dead gloomy dark lifeless dismal glow with their UV back lighting when watching a movie or gaming in the dark.
While plasma's retain that CRT glow, and their motion smokes any LCD/LED although it's not perfect. Dithering can be a nasty effect when gaming, and the motion still quite as good as CRT...

two things i adore about CRT technology is that they retain every single little detail when in motion, it's flawless. Perfect motion handeling in my eyes coupled with ZERO lag. But lets get real, outside of Retro gaming and the Wii the majority of people with a Wii/PS3/XBOX 360 want to get an HDTV, and for Bluray. We want Progressive scan, Widescreen, HD, HDMI and a large flat screen.
So for now, plasma, led and lcd are our only flawed gaming options. :P If a Plasma could produce the brightness and pure whites of an LCD for gaming, and produce colors that are as vivid then i'd be on board for gaming and ditch LED/LCD all together.

I'm still torn if i should replace my current LK450 and get the Panasonic X3 720p plasma instead(Hell, the X3 would be miles better for movies.....)that is if it really does boast 'low' input lag....16ms for the PAL release, but what does that translate for the NTSC release?
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post #3464 of 4253 Old 02-16-2012, 09:02 PM
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I heard OLED manufacturing is going to a process where the'y'll use a black and white screen along with a color filter much like DLP to avoid the short life span of the blue spectrum diodes.

If they could only get the price down on them and start mass producing bigger ones. OLED screens look very nice. Every time I see my neighbor's phone that has one I can't help but notice the deep blacks and gradients with zero compromises.

That said, why Cavendish Labs can't get more manufacturer's interested in their PLED tech is beyond me. All the benefits of OLED without the tradeoffs. Clearly it's only due to it being discovered by college students vs a big name like Kodak, which ironically is filing for bankruptcy now.

At any rate, these kind of looming technologies in the background is one of the biggest reasons I went for a low priced, no frills set. In a few years we could see something drastically different come along.
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post #3465 of 4253 Old 02-17-2012, 07:37 AM
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Using white OLED's with a color filter might also overcome the possible issues with image persistence on traditional OLEDs:

Wikipedia:
"Unlike displays with a common light source, the brightness of each OLED pixel fades depending on the content displayed. The varied lifespan of the organic dyes can cause a discrepancy between red, green, and blue intensity. This leads to image persistence, also known as burn-in."

But then it's not really a true OLED tv. It's more of an OLED-backlit LCD. There would still be advantages over other backlight sources, but I don't know why lag would be dramatically different.

http://www.oled-info.com/lgs-8-gen-l...-true-oled-tvs
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post #3466 of 4253 Old 02-17-2012, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Viche View Post

But then it's not really a true OLED tv. It's more of an OLED-backlit LCD. There would still be advantages over other backlight sources, but I don't know why lag would be dramatically different.

You can have an LCD screen without the typical tradeoffs associated with LCD sets that use the actual Liquid Crystals to change pixels. DLP TVs for instance use LCD screens and suffer no issues with black levels and gradients. As always though, lag is going to depend on processing used, even in a plasma display.

The first DLP TVs were very low in input lag, around 16 microseconds. As far as I know it wasn't until they changed how the color filtering was implemented that they shot up in input lag. The point being, LCD screens can be used to display an image onto without high input lag.

To say an LCD-OLED TV is not a true OLED is like saying a DLP set is not a projection CRT TV. It's rather redundant to point out having dropped the undesirable traits of the tech as if it's a tradeoff.

I'm not a big fan of LG, mainly due to their panel lotteries and for personal preference reasons regarding their LCDs and misleading LED wording, but I applaud their taking a step in this direction. Clearly Liquid Crystal as an image source is becoming outdated tech.
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post #3467 of 4253 Old 02-17-2012, 12:35 PM
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Anything at all happening with those laser sets?

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Keeping the world safe from the evil antics of Bernie Tanaka and Mel Fujitsu since 1986

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post #3468 of 4253 Old 02-18-2012, 12:58 AM
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Hey all!

I'm a noob to HDTVs, I bought a Vizio E470VL a year or so ago, it's been a great tv for everything...except for what I bought it for....PS3 Gaming (FPS) that is.

I've read through the AVS forum, and found that said HDTV is not good for gaming (the input lag drove me to find this forum), so it's time to upgrade.

Help me understand a few technical things:

1. Input lag: plasma vs. LCD; when looking at price, plasma sets typically have lower input lag values. True?

2. The "burn in" issue, once prevelant in plasmas, is no longer an issue. True? (if true, is this at most/all price ranges?

3. Most LCD sets with minimal input lag (due to "game mode" or due to the settings requiired to achieve minimal input lag rates) also end up with compromised picture quality. True? (if true, is this in regards to hues/color? My tv set is right next to a terribly large window, and sunlight/glare ruins the picture as is).

4. I've seen that most LCDs with minimal input lag <10ms are around 37inches or less. Are there any sets (LCD or Plasma) that are in the near 50's, and still at the same minimal input lag?

5. Details about room/use/environment of new desired set

Distance: Couch is 7ft away, gaming chair is 4-5 feet
Use: gaming, Hulu, net flix. Don't really prefer blue ray, but also ok. (NFL when the season returns)
Price: up to 750$
Lighting: the tv will be right next to a large window, with the worst blinds ever.

Help? I honestly don't care if it's a plasma 720p, or an LCD 1080p. I'm desperate for a tv that supports low input lag for FPS gaming (ps3).

Thanks for any help and comments.
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post #3469 of 4253 Old 02-18-2012, 06:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hi Def Fan View Post

You can have an LCD screen without the typical tradeoffs associated with LCD sets that use the actual Liquid Crystals to change pixels. DLP TVs for instance use LCD screens and suffer no issues with black levels and gradients. As always though, lag is going to depend on processing used, even in a plasma display.

The first DLP TVs were very low in input lag, around 16 microseconds. As far as I know it wasn't until they changed how the color filtering was implemented that they shot up in input lag. The point being, LCD screens can be used to display an image onto without high input lag.

To say an LCD-OLED TV is not a true OLED is like saying a DLP set is not a projection CRT TV. It's rather redundant to point out having dropped the undesirable traits of the tech as if it's a tradeoff.

I'm not a big fan of LG, mainly due to their panel lotteries and for personal preference reasons regarding their LCDs and misleading LED wording, but I applaud their taking a step in this direction. Clearly Liquid Crystal as an image source is becoming outdated tech.

My points stand. And OLED-Info disagrees with you.
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post #3470 of 4253 Old 02-18-2012, 10:47 AM
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My only 2 options right now for a temporary HDTV display to replace my current one are either....


LG 42" 1080p LV3500 LED
Panasonic 42" X3 720p Plasma

It seems that a couple of people on here have praised the LV3500 for having very low input lag, but is that low input lag in the same range as the LG LK450? As for the X3, there's absolutely zero info on this site about it....Aside from it having 16ms for the PAL model.
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post #3471 of 4253 Old 02-18-2012, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viche View Post

My points stand. And OLED-Info disagrees with you.

I didn't see anything in that article you linked to proving that using an LCD screen as a display medium with another tech as an image source, be it OLED or DLP, causes as much lag as using the LCD itself as the image source.

What I just said above is a good example of how LCD screens when projected on via another image source can in fact be very low in lag. You may not recall how low in lag the first DLPs were, but I do.

This tech LG is using is still in it's infancy, and it's not like it can't be improved upon by themselves or someone else. There's not even any credibility to suggest at all that it would be better or more practical than PLED for that matter, which is a tech that suffers from no diode degradation, even lasting upwards 200,000 hours.

If you take away the color filtering process and any lag associated with it, you get back to the very low lag inherent with this tech, and without lifespan compromises where PLED is concerned. There's lots of articles flooding the net that at first look seem as if scientific studies that are in fact reports biased toward or against the manufacturers they target.

I don't think you know enough about this to be objectionable. It's obvious by your merely linking to one early "report", as if it's the only info on the subject, that you have not really gleaned much about it. It's also WAY too early to say one way or another what lag levels will be like IF this product comes to market. There hasn't even been much pre production development and testing, let alone product improvement. It has to actually BE a product before that can happen.
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post #3472 of 4253 Old 02-19-2012, 07:53 PM
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It seems that Plasma's will never get lower than 16ms for input lag and the same deal I'm guessing goes for LCD and LED. It's dissapointing because for motion/pointer based titles on the Wii you really do NEED every single MS because the movements are fluid 1:1for titles such as Metroid Prime 3 for ex.

I've done comparisons between my LK450(which boasts 16ms for gaming which is the lowest it can get, which is the same as my previous LG LH model from a couple years back) and my Samsung CRT. And while 16ms is absolutely fantastic for tradition playing games, motion controlled however i can still feel the difference and to me it's almost night and day. And I can still feel the difference with traditional controlled games as well but it's so bloody good to the point where it doesn't even matter. Motion controlled titles however, yes it does...

I need to get used to the fact that this input lag epidemic is not going away, at least for now until somebody invents some brilliant device that destroys it all together. :P I'm basically done with LCD/LED due to the inherent awful motion handeling, so i'm strictly sticking with Plasma & CRT....Even though i'll miss my LCD's insanely bright picture, super clear image and vivd color gamut! XP
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post #3473 of 4253 Old 02-20-2012, 02:10 AM
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There's not likely going to be any device or firmware come along to radically reduce or remove input lag. We'd have seen it by now. You can only really compare plasma and LCD tech for now, because expecting them to be like CRT is a lost cause. Hopefully better tech altogether will replace them soon, that's your only hope for the input lag cure I think.
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post #3474 of 4253 Old 02-20-2012, 01:28 PM
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There's not likely going to be any device or firmware come along to radically reduce or remove input lag. We'd have seen it by now. You can only really compare plasma and LCD tech for now, because expecting them to be like CRT is a lost cause. Hopefully better tech altogether will replace them soon, that's your only hope for the input lag cure I think.

And the answer will hopefully be OLED..'Super' OLED. Not too sure about input lag, but i think it's safe to say that it is basically the perfect TV technology. retaining LCD/LED brightness Levels and super crisp/clean resolution while delivering ridiculous contrast ratio's, no back light, amazing color, BUT with superior motion handeling. All that has been stated is 'Super OLED has virtually no motion blur" i wonder if that means Plasma-good or CRT good? Either way it's a given that it will pummel LCD/LED in that department.

If LCD's or LED's had CRT or even plasma-like 'motion' I'd stick with either technology. but as it is, for me watching movies for example on any LCD/LED kind of destroys the experience. Too each their own, but i'm just really sensitive to LCD motion. It's bad enough in gaming that it destroys all motion detail when zipping the camera around for example....It gives off a smearish/blur infested VHS quality like effect....While CRT retains every single detail when in motion perfectly which makes it look amazing in the process. I'm sooo used to CRT, since the 80's. It's a deal breaker for me, especially for movies. I'll be getting a plasma instead, but for now I'm replacing my LCD with my other 32" CRT in the time being once i get the cash. :P

Also somebody stated that '16ms' is thee' lowest amount of input lag you'll ever get on an HDTV regarding plasma/LCD and LED(if you're insanely lucky). I guess that's something i need to get over. 16ms is fantastic for tradional controlled games, while still slightly off but most people would never even know it. However, step into 'Wii' Motion controlled/Wii pointer/Tilt territory and ZERO LAG Vs 16ms provides quite the bloody difference. I've done comparisons on my LK450(16ms set) and my CRT and it's quite obvious. After all, these are 1:1 fluid movements so you'll need every little MS you can get. Otherwise, 16ms kicks ass for none-motion controlled based tiles and it's absolutely good enough for me.
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post #3475 of 4253 Old 02-20-2012, 02:15 PM
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Also much better black gradients without having to turn up brightness and get that charcoal grey effect LCDs have. OLEDs do everything well EXCEPT lifespan, and that's a big concern. The blue color spectrum degrades horribly in OLED. Sony claimed 30,000 hrs life on their production OLED TVS, but as Sharp wisely implied when refuting it, lab tests are closer to 10,000 hours. The last thing a consumer wants is an ultra expensive disposable TV. The tech should be affordable to produce once factories are built and the demand is high enough to mass produce them though, because the screens can literally be made via an ink jet process.

I still argue the sanity of mass OLED production though when PLED has been proven to far outlast it in diode lifespan. I'm talking around 200,000 hours vs 10,000 when tested in labs. The main difference is PLED uses polymers vs an organic substance. The organic substance in OLED leaves the diodes susceptible to corrosion from humidity. So people in very arid climes would have longer lasting TVs than those in humid ones, which just isn't fair or good business. As we stated above they're working on making OLED sets with a black and white picture and imparting color filtering like DLP tech, but why bother with the expense and likely added lag of that when PLED doesn't even require it.

The problem is, these kind of industries are controlled by the corporate minded that would rather take advantage of Kodak's financial troubles, allowing them to use their OLED patented tech affordably, even if they have to add on color filtering and jack up the lag to what current LCDs have. I guess they figure most are used to lag in LCDs by now. I'm rooting for the college grads at Cambridge that discovered PLED to whip their arses (now known as Cavendish Labs), but in the back of my mind, I know the big corporations usually win. Last I checked Philips was the only big name backing PLED. I gained a lot of respect for Philips when I saw that.
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post #3476 of 4253 Old 02-20-2012, 07:24 PM
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iirc the Sony EX720 series has roughly 2 frames of lag. Do some research on it, I am sure you will find the figures in here somewhere.

I have seen on a UK test that they got 22ms when compared to a crt. But a member here has tested it to be 2 frames, roughly 32ms. I do not know if there are different panels between the ntsc and pal versions or if there was an error in testing. Either way, it is probably the best LED of that size, but the 3d is never very flashy on smallish displays to begin with.

Has anyone done a lag test on the Sony ex720 for this site? I have compared a 42" Panasonic gt25, a 37" Panasonic DT37 LED, and the 40" Sony ex 720. After comparing the other sets I just went with what "seemed" to work the best with the least input lag media gaming media used was call of duty. Pure coincidence. I offered to test the tv....but didn't yield results. In light of I am not about to buy test equipment to get results for a tv that I am only going to need test once... My initial situation was I wanted the biggest tv I could get that would have the lowest input lag when playing shooter video games. If there is anything I could offer about the tv within means I would happy to volunteer it. I am not even sure what type of panel it is on the EX 720. I am an avid gamer. I have been playing online shooters for gaming consoles since 2004. I have a gaming router, accompanied by a fairly high MBPS for upload and download. I just initially set out on a mission to get the biggest screen I could find with minimal inut lag... The tv is an ok performer as far as movies and cable in light of picture. The blacks do tend to drown out the picture in dark scenes, but overall I am definitely satisfied. I do not utilize the tv at all for 3D games or movies...
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post #3477 of 4253 Old 02-20-2012, 08:38 PM
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Has anyone done a lag test on the Sony ex720 for this site? I have compared a 42" Panasonic gt25, a 37" Panasonic DT37 LED, and the 40" Sony ex 720. After comparing the other sets I just went with what "seemed" to work the best with the least input lag media gaming media used was call of duty. Pure coincidence. I offered to test the tv....but didn't yield results. In light of I am not about to buy test equipment to get results for a tv that I am only going to need test once... My initial situation was I wanted the biggest tv I could get that would have the lowest input lag when playing shooter video games. If there is anything I could offer about the tv within means I would happy to volunteer it. I am not even sure what type of panel it is on the EX 720. I am an avid gamer. I have been playing online shooters for gaming consoles since 2004. I have a gaming router, accompanied by a fairly high MBPS for upload and download. I just initially set out on a mission to get the biggest screen I could find with minimal inut lag... The tv is an ok performer as far as movies and cable in light of picture. The blacks do tend to drown out the picture in dark scenes, but overall I am definitely satisfied. I do not utilize the tv at all for 3D games or movies...

If you do a search in this thread, you will find multiple results about the EX720. I also posted a link to a review on this tv from a UK tester who rated it at 22ms while in game mode. so the difference between tests on this forum and the UK test is yielding a difference of 8-10ms, still 32ms is very good.

I am a hardcore FPS and fighting gamer, on a national level here in Aus. I only rarely notice lag playing Tekken and SF games, seeing that I need to input harder juggles earlier on console as opposed to arcade, but only marginally. But playing games like COD I notice nothing. If a TV has lag less then a quarter of a punch in tekken (8frames) there really shouldn't be any issue with any of the TVs you have mentioned if you are a fps gamer.
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post #3478 of 4253 Old 02-22-2012, 02:05 AM
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MY set has got to be 16ms(which is the lowest it can get) or it's no dice for me. So which 2011 models boast 16ms be it LED or plasma?
I'm torn between getting the LG LV3500 42" 1080p LED or the Panasonic X3 720p 42" plasma. But i need to know the input lag measurements.
these 2 particular models are lacking in a great deal of lag-info, aside from the X3 getting a 16ms reward on HDTV UK Test.Com but that's the PAL version if that makes any difference.
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post #3479 of 4253 Old 02-22-2012, 05:59 AM
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Waveboy the Panasonic X3 plasma has an off resolution and pixel shape which doesn't lend itself particularly well to anything except movies and TV watching. It has a 4:3 resolution: 1024x768, but with rectangular shaped pixels to achieve a widescreen 16:9 format. It will accept higher resolutions at it's input but everything is downscaled to 1024x768. Since you seem to be a little more discriminating in what you want, i don't think you'll have much fun with that

And by the way, weren't the Panasonic LCD's tested to have the lowest input lag for 2011/2012 ? It's their E3 and U3 models i'm referring to. I would definitely research them and verify first but i think it's between 1 to 1-1/2 frames of lag if i'm not mistaken. And as usual, always purchase from a decent merchant with a good return/exchange policy, unfortunately there's always the chance you'll need to take advantage of it.
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post #3480 of 4253 Old 02-22-2012, 08:53 AM
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I didn't see anything in that article you linked to proving that using an LCD screen as a display medium with another tech as an image source, be it OLED or DLP, causes as much lag as using the LCD itself as the image source.

What I just said above is a good example of how LCD screens when projected on via another image source can in fact be very low in lag. You may not recall how low in lag the first DLPs were, but I do.

This tech LG is using is still in it's infancy, and it's not like it can't be improved upon by themselves or someone else. There's not even any credibility to suggest at all that it would be better or more practical than PLED for that matter, which is a tech that suffers from no diode degradation, even lasting upwards 200,000 hours.

If you take away the color filtering process and any lag associated with it, you get back to the very low lag inherent with this tech, and without lifespan compromises where PLED is concerned. There's lots of articles flooding the net that at first look seem as if scientific studies that are in fact reports biased toward or against the manufacturers they target.

I don't think you know enough about this to be objectionable. It's obvious by your merely linking to one early "report", as if it's the only info on the subject, that you have not really gleaned much about it. It's also WAY too early to say one way or another what lag levels will be like IF this product comes to market. There hasn't even been much pre production development and testing, let alone product improvement. It has to actually BE a product before that can happen.

I never said the article talked about lag. I simply stated that using OLED tech doesn't necessarily equal lower lag (the focus of this thread). As you said:

"lag is going to depend on processing used, even in a plasma display."
and
"It's also WAY too early to say one way or another what lag levels will be like IF this product comes to market."

I agree with you.

I also stand by my statement that:

"Using white OLED's with a color filter might also overcome the possible issues with image persistence on traditional OLEDs."

So...yes. I stand by my points. Not much to argue about here.
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