Input lag wars!, post your input lag results of your LCD display here for reference - Page 143 - AVS Forum
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post #4261 of 4271 Old 09-21-2014, 03:04 PM
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Here is a link to get you started: http://www.testufo.com/#test=frameskipping In order to properly perform this test, you will need a high speed camera.
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post #4262 of 4271 Old 09-21-2014, 03:20 PM
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It is a well established fact that the outputs of most (if not all) video cards are NOT synchronized. In other words, they are out of phase and this alone can introduce what appears like a difference in lag that simply is not there. In the worst case, you may even see a CRT lag an LCD on some frames. You would need to split the signal coming out of the same port of the video card to remove this error. But then you run into analog/digital conversion lag since CRT can't do digital and LCD can't do analog.

See here for a detailed explanation why camera testing vs. CRT is flawed:

http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/speci.../inputlag.html
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post #4263 of 4271 Old 09-21-2014, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wizziwig View Post
It is a well established fact that the outputs of most (if not all) video cards are NOT synchronized. In other words, they are out of phase and this alone can introduce what appears like a difference in lag that simply is not there. In the worst case, you may even see a CRT lag an LCD on some frames. You would need to split the signal coming out of the same port of the video card to remove this error. But then you run into analog/digital conversion lag since CRT can't do digital and LCD can't do analog.

See here for a detailed explanation why camera testing vs. CRT is flawed:

http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/speci.../inputlag.html

I already said earlier but I guess UFO wasn't reading that yes the seiki frame skips but oddly (I wouldn't have expected it either) there is less inpu lag @ 240Hz then there is at 120Hz even though the display is still only physically outputting @ 120Hz.

Like I really need a link to the browser based skip test (which doesn't even work on a lot of browsers OS) LOL, comeon dude. Yeah I know nothing about displays. Been using 4k since 2006, wrote my own EDID and custom firmware for seiki SE50UY04/SE39UY04 but yup, I must be completely clueless when it comes to displays.

Unfortunately there is no other way than the CRT method to test the input lag with any kind of repeatable test when you are doing what I am doing and testing things like 120Hz plus as hardware doesn't exist (AFAIK) to do it.

Also I 100% know what your talking about displays being synchronized. For most of the tests (until i exceeded with the CRT would take) each display was using exact timings.

On the old VP2290b/T221s which I had to drive via multiple outputs with nvidia/linux (I wont make comments about other OSs and hardware) the outputs were always genlocked and I got no tearing between the outputs which is the only way to get no tearing on those displays.

It amazes me that you wouldn't consider that some scalers can be behind a specific number of frames (and not just time) and that increasing the refresh rate (and decreasing the time between frames) can lower the input lag.
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post #4264 of 4271 Old 09-21-2014, 04:36 PM
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So who thinks we'll get a large HDTV in 2015 that rates down at 10ms!? Crossing my fingers! So far that 2014 Sony is the lowest 65" TV @ 17ms, is that correct?

I bought a 55" Panasonic UT50 Plasma a few years back in hope that it would be good enough for my sensitive gaming needs, but it didn't - so it's just remained my Blu Ray/TV watching set. Supposedly on my Leo Bodnar device the UT50 is rated at 40ms, I suppose that's accurate as it's a night and day difference coming off my 27" Samsung LCD Monitor that I continue to game on, which rates at 10ms (top: 3ms middle: 10ms bottom: 17ms - so average, 10ms, correct?). Been playing on this monitor for years and have gotten so accustomed to it but so badly want to hop back on a large TV like I used to play on years and years ago. So I'm hoping in 2015 a set comes out that knocks down to atleast what I'm currently playing on, 10ms. But if not, will an added 7ms be noticed even with the most sensitive of sensitive? So going from 10ms to 17ms?
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post #4265 of 4271 Old 09-21-2014, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Dizzy714 View Post
So who thinks we'll get a large HDTV in 2015 that rates down at 10ms!? Crossing my fingers! So far that 2014 Sony is the lowest 65" TV @ 17ms, is that correct?

I bought a 55" Panasonic UT50 Plasma a few years back in hope that it would be good enough for my sensitive gaming needs, but it didn't - so it's just remained my Blu Ray/TV watching set. Supposedly on my Leo Bodnar device the UT50 is rated at 40ms, I suppose that's accurate as it's a night and day difference coming off my 27" Samsung LCD Monitor that I continue to game on, which rates at 10ms (top: 3ms middle: 10ms bottom: 17ms - so average, 10ms, correct?). Been playing on this monitor for years and have gotten so accustomed to it but so badly want to hop back on a large TV like I used to play on years and years ago. So I'm hoping in 2015 a set comes out that knocks down to atleast what I'm currently playing on, 10ms. But if not, will an added 7ms be noticed even with the most sensitive of sensitive? So going from 10ms to 17ms?
I am extremely sensitive to input lag, and I can tell you that anything under 30ms will be unnoticeable. If you can, find a U50 (UT50 minus the 3d), which has 27ms of input lag. I use that along with a 27xi (10ms), and the difference between 10ms and 27ms is hard to notice unless you compare it side by side. I still prefer the plasma because the motion resolution is much higher, and that plays a bigger roll in FPS games because targets don't blur when moving.
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post #4266 of 4271 Old 09-21-2014, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by *UFO* View Post
I am extremely sensitive to input lag, and I can tell you that anything under 30ms will be unnoticeable. If you can, find a U50 (UT50 minus the 3d), which has 27ms of input lag. I use that along with a 27xi (10ms), and the difference between 10ms and 27ms is hard to notice unless you compare it side by side. I still prefer the plasma because the motion resolution is much higher, and that plays a bigger roll in FPS games because targets don't blur when moving.
Did that number come off the Leo Bodnar or CRT method? I could of sworn the numbers were all supposed to be the same on the ST, GT, UT, and the U50's but I guess not. I've got a question regarding the Leo Bodnar in general actually. Will the bottom bar always be at least 16ms on an LCD/LED as that's one complete frame, and on an LCD/LED a frame is generated from top to bottom - making the bottom impossible to be anything under 16ms? Or do I have this wrong? Lol. Also read something about Plasma's an the Leo Bodnar not being so accurate in results, article said a plasma and an LCD with the same number rating felt very different. I just want something that feels like this monitor I've got!
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post #4267 of 4271 Old 09-21-2014, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Dizzy714 View Post
Did that number come off the Leo Bodnar or CRT method? I could of sworn the numbers were all supposed to be the same on the ST, GT, UT, and the U50's but I guess not. I've got a question regarding the Leo Bodnar in general actually. Will the bottom bar always be at least 16ms on an LCD/LED as that's one complete frame, and on an LCD/LED a frame is generated from top to bottom - making the bottom impossible to be anything under 16ms? Or do I have this wrong? Lol. Also read something about Plasma's an the Leo Bodnar not being so accurate in results, article said a plasma and an LCD with the same number rating felt very different. I just want something that feels like this monitor I've got!
Yes it is from the LB input lag tester (I have one). The U50 in all sizes reads 27ms. For a 60hz LCD the lowest bar will read at least 16.7ms. For a plasma it could be much lower because the entire screen is refreshed at the same time. I have tested many plasmas and LCD's with my LB input lag tester, and I can attest to the fact that if a plasma was to read as 30ms, and an LCD was to read at 30ms, the plasma would feel considerably more responsive/smooth.
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post #4268 of 4271 Old 09-24-2014, 12:52 PM
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I think I'm dead out of luck based on BB and future shop carrying the 55" Vizio E in canada, my only other option is the 50"(60" is too big for my space)....But i need to know if it can deliver the same low 27ms of lag as the 55" when turning off local smart dimming/active LED lights. eek, help! :P
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post #4269 of 4271 Old 09-28-2014, 06:59 PM
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Here are some CRT results where I tested both the seiki as well as the 70 inch Vizio P series. This time I used a good camera where you can actually make out the results.

Anyway I tested both the seiki and the Vizio at various resolutions/refresh rates. All Vizio tests were on HDMI 5 with game-mode turned on.

Here are my results (with pictures to verify):

Vizio 2160p@30Hz:
.666 - 611 = 55ms


(Slight advantage to the vizio on the test as the CRT was also at 120Hz where it was @ 180Hz for the other tests)
Vizio 1080p@120Hz:
.593 -.586 = 7ms


Vizio 1080p@60Hz (two results)

882 - 850 = 32ms
044 - 014 = 30ms




Seiki 2160p@30Hz:
Unfortunately none of the pictures came out well enough to get results. We all know input lag is bad @ 30Hz on the seiki though.

Seiki 1080p@60Hz (two results):
948 - 902 = 46 Ms
120 - 064 = 56 Ms




Seiki 1080p@120Hz (two results):
431 - 392 = 39ms
125 - 084 = 41ms




Seiki 720p@240Hz (three results):
699 - 686 = 13ms
643 - 626 = 17ms
093 - 076 = 17ms



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post #4270 of 4271 Old 09-29-2014, 02:04 PM
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This thread needs to be closed -.-
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post #4271 of 4271 Old 09-30-2014, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by *UFO* View Post
Yes it is from the LB input lag tester (I have one). The U50 in all sizes reads 27ms. For a 60hz LCD the lowest bar will read at least 16.7ms. For a plasma it could be much lower because the entire screen is refreshed at the same time. I have tested many plasmas and LCD's with my LB input lag tester, and I can attest to the fact that if a plasma was to read as 30ms, and an LCD was to read at 30ms, the plasma would feel considerably more responsive/smooth.
Hdtvtest.co.uk actually confirmed this and explained why plasmas typically report a slower Leo Bodnar speed vs the 'CRT timer' method and it has to do with the plasma's impulse drive method.

I find plasma's superior motion handling to be a big benefit too. Everytime I go from my admittedly excellent BenQ gaming monitor to my 50" S30 I'm always struck by how much more naturaly the motion is. Too bad I won't play Cod or Titanfall for hours on the plasma for fear of IR...

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