Input lag wars!, post your input lag results of your LCD display here for reference - Page 143 - AVS Forum
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post #4261 of 4289 Old 09-21-2014, 04:04 PM
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Here is a link to get you started: http://www.testufo.com/#test=frameskipping In order to properly perform this test, you will need a high speed camera.
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post #4262 of 4289 Old 09-21-2014, 04:20 PM
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It is a well established fact that the outputs of most (if not all) video cards are NOT synchronized. In other words, they are out of phase and this alone can introduce what appears like a difference in lag that simply is not there. In the worst case, you may even see a CRT lag an LCD on some frames. You would need to split the signal coming out of the same port of the video card to remove this error. But then you run into analog/digital conversion lag since CRT can't do digital and LCD can't do analog.

See here for a detailed explanation why camera testing vs. CRT is flawed:

http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/speci.../inputlag.html
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post #4263 of 4289 Old 09-21-2014, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wizziwig View Post
It is a well established fact that the outputs of most (if not all) video cards are NOT synchronized. In other words, they are out of phase and this alone can introduce what appears like a difference in lag that simply is not there. In the worst case, you may even see a CRT lag an LCD on some frames. You would need to split the signal coming out of the same port of the video card to remove this error. But then you run into analog/digital conversion lag since CRT can't do digital and LCD can't do analog.

See here for a detailed explanation why camera testing vs. CRT is flawed:

http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/speci.../inputlag.html

I already said earlier but I guess UFO wasn't reading that yes the seiki frame skips but oddly (I wouldn't have expected it either) there is less inpu lag @ 240Hz then there is at 120Hz even though the display is still only physically outputting @ 120Hz.

Like I really need a link to the browser based skip test (which doesn't even work on a lot of browsers OS) LOL, comeon dude. Yeah I know nothing about displays. Been using 4k since 2006, wrote my own EDID and custom firmware for seiki SE50UY04/SE39UY04 but yup, I must be completely clueless when it comes to displays.

Unfortunately there is no other way than the CRT method to test the input lag with any kind of repeatable test when you are doing what I am doing and testing things like 120Hz plus as hardware doesn't exist (AFAIK) to do it.

Also I 100% know what your talking about displays being synchronized. For most of the tests (until i exceeded with the CRT would take) each display was using exact timings.

On the old VP2290b/T221s which I had to drive via multiple outputs with nvidia/linux (I wont make comments about other OSs and hardware) the outputs were always genlocked and I got no tearing between the outputs which is the only way to get no tearing on those displays.

It amazes me that you wouldn't consider that some scalers can be behind a specific number of frames (and not just time) and that increasing the refresh rate (and decreasing the time between frames) can lower the input lag.
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post #4264 of 4289 Old 09-21-2014, 05:36 PM
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So who thinks we'll get a large HDTV in 2015 that rates down at 10ms!? Crossing my fingers! So far that 2014 Sony is the lowest 65" TV @ 17ms, is that correct?

I bought a 55" Panasonic UT50 Plasma a few years back in hope that it would be good enough for my sensitive gaming needs, but it didn't - so it's just remained my Blu Ray/TV watching set. Supposedly on my Leo Bodnar device the UT50 is rated at 40ms, I suppose that's accurate as it's a night and day difference coming off my 27" Samsung LCD Monitor that I continue to game on, which rates at 10ms (top: 3ms middle: 10ms bottom: 17ms - so average, 10ms, correct?). Been playing on this monitor for years and have gotten so accustomed to it but so badly want to hop back on a large TV like I used to play on years and years ago. So I'm hoping in 2015 a set comes out that knocks down to atleast what I'm currently playing on, 10ms. But if not, will an added 7ms be noticed even with the most sensitive of sensitive? So going from 10ms to 17ms?
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post #4265 of 4289 Old 09-21-2014, 05:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizzy714 View Post
So who thinks we'll get a large HDTV in 2015 that rates down at 10ms!? Crossing my fingers! So far that 2014 Sony is the lowest 65" TV @ 17ms, is that correct?

I bought a 55" Panasonic UT50 Plasma a few years back in hope that it would be good enough for my sensitive gaming needs, but it didn't - so it's just remained my Blu Ray/TV watching set. Supposedly on my Leo Bodnar device the UT50 is rated at 40ms, I suppose that's accurate as it's a night and day difference coming off my 27" Samsung LCD Monitor that I continue to game on, which rates at 10ms (top: 3ms middle: 10ms bottom: 17ms - so average, 10ms, correct?). Been playing on this monitor for years and have gotten so accustomed to it but so badly want to hop back on a large TV like I used to play on years and years ago. So I'm hoping in 2015 a set comes out that knocks down to atleast what I'm currently playing on, 10ms. But if not, will an added 7ms be noticed even with the most sensitive of sensitive? So going from 10ms to 17ms?
I am extremely sensitive to input lag, and I can tell you that anything under 30ms will be unnoticeable. If you can, find a U50 (UT50 minus the 3d), which has 27ms of input lag. I use that along with a 27xi (10ms), and the difference between 10ms and 27ms is hard to notice unless you compare it side by side. I still prefer the plasma because the motion resolution is much higher, and that plays a bigger roll in FPS games because targets don't blur when moving.
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post #4266 of 4289 Old 09-21-2014, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by *UFO* View Post
I am extremely sensitive to input lag, and I can tell you that anything under 30ms will be unnoticeable. If you can, find a U50 (UT50 minus the 3d), which has 27ms of input lag. I use that along with a 27xi (10ms), and the difference between 10ms and 27ms is hard to notice unless you compare it side by side. I still prefer the plasma because the motion resolution is much higher, and that plays a bigger roll in FPS games because targets don't blur when moving.
Did that number come off the Leo Bodnar or CRT method? I could of sworn the numbers were all supposed to be the same on the ST, GT, UT, and the U50's but I guess not. I've got a question regarding the Leo Bodnar in general actually. Will the bottom bar always be at least 16ms on an LCD/LED as that's one complete frame, and on an LCD/LED a frame is generated from top to bottom - making the bottom impossible to be anything under 16ms? Or do I have this wrong? Lol. Also read something about Plasma's an the Leo Bodnar not being so accurate in results, article said a plasma and an LCD with the same number rating felt very different. I just want something that feels like this monitor I've got!
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post #4267 of 4289 Old 09-21-2014, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizzy714 View Post
Did that number come off the Leo Bodnar or CRT method? I could of sworn the numbers were all supposed to be the same on the ST, GT, UT, and the U50's but I guess not. I've got a question regarding the Leo Bodnar in general actually. Will the bottom bar always be at least 16ms on an LCD/LED as that's one complete frame, and on an LCD/LED a frame is generated from top to bottom - making the bottom impossible to be anything under 16ms? Or do I have this wrong? Lol. Also read something about Plasma's an the Leo Bodnar not being so accurate in results, article said a plasma and an LCD with the same number rating felt very different. I just want something that feels like this monitor I've got!
Yes it is from the LB input lag tester (I have one). The U50 in all sizes reads 27ms. For a 60hz LCD the lowest bar will read at least 16.7ms. For a plasma it could be much lower because the entire screen is refreshed at the same time. I have tested many plasmas and LCD's with my LB input lag tester, and I can attest to the fact that if a plasma was to read as 30ms, and an LCD was to read at 30ms, the plasma would feel considerably more responsive/smooth.
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post #4268 of 4289 Old 09-24-2014, 01:52 PM
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I think I'm dead out of luck based on BB and future shop carrying the 55" Vizio E in canada, my only other option is the 50"(60" is too big for my space)....But i need to know if it can deliver the same low 27ms of lag as the 55" when turning off local smart dimming/active LED lights. eek, help! :P
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post #4269 of 4289 Old 09-28-2014, 07:59 PM
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Here are some CRT results where I tested both the seiki as well as the 70 inch Vizio P series. This time I used a good camera where you can actually make out the results.

Anyway I tested both the seiki and the Vizio at various resolutions/refresh rates. All Vizio tests were on HDMI 5 with game-mode turned on.

Here are my results (with pictures to verify):

Vizio 2160p@30Hz:
.666 - 611 = 55ms


(Slight advantage to the vizio on the test as the CRT was also at 120Hz where it was @ 180Hz for the other tests)
Vizio 1080p@120Hz:
.593 -.586 = 7ms


Vizio 1080p@60Hz (two results)

882 - 850 = 32ms
044 - 014 = 30ms




Seiki 2160p@30Hz:
Unfortunately none of the pictures came out well enough to get results. We all know input lag is bad @ 30Hz on the seiki though.

Seiki 1080p@60Hz (two results):
948 - 902 = 46 Ms
120 - 064 = 56 Ms




Seiki 1080p@120Hz (two results):
431 - 392 = 39ms
125 - 084 = 41ms




Seiki 720p@240Hz (three results):
699 - 686 = 13ms
643 - 626 = 17ms
093 - 076 = 17ms



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post #4270 of 4289 Old 09-29-2014, 03:04 PM
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This thread needs to be closed -.-
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post #4271 of 4289 Old 09-30-2014, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by *UFO* View Post
Yes it is from the LB input lag tester (I have one). The U50 in all sizes reads 27ms. For a 60hz LCD the lowest bar will read at least 16.7ms. For a plasma it could be much lower because the entire screen is refreshed at the same time. I have tested many plasmas and LCD's with my LB input lag tester, and I can attest to the fact that if a plasma was to read as 30ms, and an LCD was to read at 30ms, the plasma would feel considerably more responsive/smooth.
Hdtvtest.co.uk actually confirmed this and explained why plasmas typically report a slower Leo Bodnar speed vs the 'CRT timer' method and it has to do with the plasma's impulse drive method.

I find plasma's superior motion handling to be a big benefit too. Everytime I go from my admittedly excellent BenQ gaming monitor to my 50" S30 I'm always struck by how much more naturaly the motion is. Too bad I won't play Cod or Titanfall for hours on the plasma for fear of IR...

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post #4272 of 4289 Old 10-10-2014, 12:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sage11x View Post

I find plasma's superior motion handling to be a big benefit too. Everytime I go from my admittedly excellent BenQ gaming monitor to my 50" S30 I'm always struck by how much more naturaly the motion is. .
You should really test that plasma with the ufo website linked above. it will be a reality check on the motion handling of plasma vs lcd.
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post #4273 of 4289 Old 10-10-2014, 12:38 PM
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hi, someone have the input lag of LG 42LB6500?
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post #4274 of 4289 Old 10-10-2014, 01:24 PM
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You should really test that plasma with the ufo website linked above. it will be a reality check on the motion handling of plasma vs lcd.
Um... I have. Looks fantastic! Much, much better than my 1ms gtg dedicated BenQ gaming monitor with all the motion enhancements turned on.

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post #4275 of 4289 Old 10-17-2014, 02:52 PM
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So is the Sony W800B the one to get? It gets around ~22ms and a 55" is $1100. My other options seem to be the LG LB6300, but Rtings puts the input lag at 30-40ms (display lag says 24ms) and it has a glossy finish so reflections are bad.

I can't find something with better motion blur and lower input lag than the Sony W800B. My budget is around $1200 max
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post #4276 of 4289 Old 10-21-2014, 08:54 PM
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Just posted this over in the official thread for the 2014 Vizio E-Series, but thought it might be helpful here as well. I ended up with both a Vizio E480i-B2 and Vizio E500i-B1 simultaneously while deciding on a new TV. The E480i-B2 has some documented input lag measurements (around 40ms), but the E500i-B1 unfortunately has not. It has been suspected that the E500i-B1 uses the same/similar panel to that of the E550i-B2 (27ms), but it's never been confirmed best I can tell. Using some reference displays with known input lag results, I believe I've been able to accurately measure the input lag of the E500i-B1.

Test Display
Vizio E500i-B1 --> Input Lag unknown prior to testing

Reference Displays
Vizio E480i-B2 --> Reported/measured input lag of 40ms (Source)
LG 32LD450 --> Reported/measured input lag of 16ms (Source 1, Source 2)
Dell 2209WA --> Reported/measured input lag of 2-3ms (Source 1, Source 2)

Testing Methodology
Each reference display was connected simultaneously to the same graphics card (MSI Nvidia GTX 970) via the same output method (DVI to HDMI cable for the Vizio E480i-B2 and LG 32LD450; straight DVI cable for the Dell 2209WA) as the display being tested (Vizio E500i-B1). The displays were then cloned so that they displayed the same content on both screens. Refresh rate was set to 60Hz across the board.

Once the displays were cloned, the Input Lag Test counter was then run. While this counter was running, I snapped a photo using a Nikon D3100 in shutter priority mode with a shutter speed of 1/2000. The difference between the two times, based on the known input lag of the reference display, should provide the input lag of the test display. Multiple shots were taken, and measurements were very consistent. I've included representative images in the results section below.

Results
Measured input lag for E500i-B1 with Vizio E480i-B2 (40ms) reference = 20ms


Measured input lag for E500i-B1 with LG 32LD450 (16ms) reference = 16ms


Measured input lag for E500i-B1 with Dell 2209WA (3ms) reference = 33ms
NOTE: The Dell 2209WA has a native resolution of 1680 x 1050, forcing the E500i-B1 to have to scale the image. This almost certainly introduced additional lag into the test. I'd argue this is the least reliable result of the three tested and only include it for the sake of having an additional data point.


Conclusion
Based on these observed measurements, I'd suggest that the E500i-B1 has an input lag of approximately 16-20ms. I think it's clear that the E500i-B1 performs very well with regards to input lag. The LG 32LD450 was one of the best performing HDTV's on the market with regards to input lag for quite a while (which coincidentally I ended up with entirely by accident), and the E500i-B1 appears to match it exactly. The E550i-B2 measures in at 27ms based on CNET's testing. I'm assuming they used the Leo Bodnar Input Lag tester (which always measures a little higher than the picture method), which suggests to me that its very likely that the 50" model uses a panel similar to that of the 55" model.
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post #4277 of 4289 Old 10-25-2014, 07:02 AM
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Conclusion
Based on these observed measurements, I'd suggest that the E500i-B1 has an input lag of approximately 16-20ms. I think it's clear that the E500i-B1 performs very well with regards to input lag. The LG 32LD450 was one of the best performing HDTV's on the market with regards to input lag for quite a while (which coincidentally I ended up with entirely by accident), and the E500i-B1 appears to match it exactly. The E550i-B2 measures in at 27ms based on CNET's testing. I'm assuming they used the Leo Bodnar Input Lag tester (which always measures a little higher than the picture method), which suggests to me that its very likely that the 50" model uses a panel similar to that of the 55" model.
I saw it was reviewed on rtings, they said it was 30ms input lag - http://www.rtings.com/reviews/tv/lcd-led/vizio/e-series . Cnet puts it at 27ms - http://www.cnet.com/products/vizio-e500i-b1/2/

I thought 16-20ms was too low, I think your testing method introduces room for error, hence your results. I only looked into it because you posted low results, I'm looking at a new TV right now and I'm very focused on input lag. I thought 30ms was a little high for me, but the price is unbelivable for a 60 inch, $800.
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post #4278 of 4289 Old 11-14-2014, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Nemix77 View Post
If anyone who cars about input lag and want a 32" LED should look into the LG 32LS3400. I had time to test it and it's a sub 1 frame input lag panel with HDMI as PC and Game mode. I'm unsure if the panel is IPS however viewing angles were about 45+ degrees. Color is not perfect like the LK450 or EH5000 however the model itself is very cheap for gamers that are about input lag. Motion blur is also really good, none detected by my eyes. Google review 42LS3400, it's about the same all over. I'm unsure if this low input lag carries over to the 32LS3450 (Direct-Lit) or 32LS3500 (Edge-Lit, higher probability cause same resolution).

greetings

would that TV ,good for text reading...lite photoshop? what about black level?
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post #4279 of 4289 Old 11-15-2014, 10:43 AM
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Wish I knew the numbers for the 50" Vizio M series. Every other M scored over 40ms which is terrible imo. But the 50"/Panel is using the same processor as the P series AND it has GLL, plus gamma presets.
if it can get under 20ms of input lag than I'm in, if not, i'll just go for either the Vizio P or sony 850b
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post #4280 of 4289 Old 11-25-2014, 08:47 PM
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Hey everyone, it's been a while since I posted in here. Just wanted to let you guys know that I updated the database just in time for Black Friday. Unfortunately, I still haven't been able to test Vizio's new sets just yet (though several of you have beat me to the punch on that), but I did test several 4K sets from LG, Samsung, and Sony. One thing to note, several 4K Samsung sets received a firmware update that cut input lag by nearly half. One of those sets is the HU9000 series. You can compare these sets to other sets in my input lag database: http://www.displaylag.com/display-database/

New additions:

LG

32″ LG 32LB560B 720p 60hz LED HDTV

42″ LG 42LB5600 1080p 60hz LED HDTV

55″ LG 55UB8200 4K 120hz LED HDTV

55″ LG 55UB8500 4K 120hz 3D LED HDTV

55″ LG 55EC9300 1080p 240hz 3D OLED HDTV

65″ LG 65UB9200 4K 120hz LED HDTV

65″ LG 65UB9500 4K 120hz 3D LED HDTV

79″ LG 79UB9800 4K 120hz 3D LED HDTV



Samsung

55″ Samsung UN55HU7250 4K 120hz LED HDTV

55″ Samsung UN55HU6950 4K 60hz LED HDTV

55″ Samsung UN55HU9000 4K 120hz 3D LED HDTV

60″ Samsung UN60H7150 1080p 240hz 3D LED HDTV

65″ Samsung UN65HU7250 4K 120hz LED HDTV

65″ Samsung UN65HU8550 4K 120hz 3D LED HDTV

75″ Samsung UN75H6350 1080p 120hz LED HDTV

75″ Samsung UN75H7150 1080p 240hz 3D LED HDTV

78″ Samsung UN78HU9000 4K 120hz 3D LED HDTV



Sony

55″ Sony XBR-55X850B 4K 120hz 3D LED HDTV

60″ Sony KDL-60W630B 1080p 120hz LED HDTV

65″ Sony XBR-65X850B 4K 120hz 3D LED HDTV

65″ Sony XBR-65X900B 4K 120hz 3D LED HDTV
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post #4281 of 4289 Old 11-26-2014, 05:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FourWude View Post
Hey everyone, it's been a while since I posted in here. Just wanted to let you guys know that I updated the database just in time for Black Friday. Unfortunately, I still haven't been able to test Vizio's new sets just yet (though several of you have beat me to the punch on that), but I did test several 4K sets from LG, Samsung, and Sony. One thing to note, several 4K Samsung sets received a firmware update that cut input lag by nearly half. One of those sets is the HU9000 series. You can compare these sets to other sets in my input lag database: http://www.displaylag.com/display-database/
Great news and thanks! Have you been able to test the 2013-model F9000 with the 2014 evolution kit? It should presumably perform as the HU9000 considering the hardware should be the same, but it would be nice to get a confirmation. Hmm, I have the Leo Bodnar kit, I could test it myself.
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post #4282 of 4289 Old 11-29-2014, 07:08 PM
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does the samsung LN55C650 have any issues with retro gaming like working right and input lag including current games? please answer both questions.
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post #4283 of 4289 Old 11-30-2014, 09:42 AM
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I was using a Seiki with a custom resolution of 1920x1080@120hz for PC gaming for the last year. It is kind of a crappy TV but it makes for a decent monitor. I recently picked up a 42in M series Visio with a native 120hz panel. Tested it with UFO and it passed all the tests, also comes up as native 120hz in my Catylst Control Centre. Really loving it for FPS gaming on my PC, super smooth, I am on it typing now and it is not bad as a monitor Desktop. But the gaming is where it shines. Have had several monitors over the years and really digging this Visio TV. I imagine you have to have it hooked up to a PC to take advantage of the 120hz.

James Reid:D
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post #4284 of 4289 Old 12-01-2014, 06:00 PM
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Hey could you please test this model ? I just ordered it today I am hoping that it is near 27 ms or so. LG LB5550 49" 1080p 60Hz Class LED HDTV Thanks in advance.
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post #4285 of 4289 Old 12-01-2014, 08:31 PM
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It would be greatly appreciated if you could.
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post #4286 of 4289 Old 12-08-2014, 10:39 AM
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Tested some of my displays.


BenQ 24" XL2420T 9.6ms
BenQ 24" XL2420Z 9.6-9.8ms oscillating
Asus 24" VW246H 9.7-9.8ms oscillating
Samsung 40" LNT40601FX 42.8-46ms kept spiking then gradual drop back down to 42.8.
Samsung 46" Smart TV UN46D6000SFXZA Game mode off. 82.1ms
Samsung 46" Smart TV UN46D6000SFXZA Game mode on. 52.8ms
LG 47" 47LH30 Game mode on. 26.6ms
Sharp 70" Sharp LC-70LE650U 154.8ms Game mode off
Sharp 70" Sharp LC-70LE650U 59.9ms Game mode on
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post #4287 of 4289 Old 12-09-2014, 01:40 PM
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I have read, and experienced, some interesting developments into the "digital signage" line of LCD for gaming purposes. With digital signage (LCD tech without bells and post processing CPU's), as compared to current TV tech, there is (until very recently) NO post-processing of the signals... so you get a consistent 6-10ms lag or less, on any signal thru any input. So, my suggestion is, start looking into "dedicated" digital signage LCD (seen at airports, hospitals, stock market and businesses) for gaming purposes. As, remember, these are to be used in applications (like stock market) where it is updating and posting images second to second and need NO lag from signal to display on the monitor for people to see.
To me, this is the ONLY current Gen imaging option we have as compared to (consumer LCD, LED, PLASMA, DLP...LCoS and OLED)... where your going to get much more lag in those models, due to the "post-processing" that all those aforementioned technologies need to perform... vs the near 0 lag from source to display on screen using digital signage. And, the $ per " is relative and sometimes cheaper compared to consumer models of LCD vs digital signage. What say you all? Check it out... cause for me, the "pop" or screen colors and "immersion" of dark/light areas aren't AS important as a VERY consistent and responsive lag-less set. To me, LAG is much more an issue than contrast and color... IMO....
What do you all think?
Can we get someone with technical knowledge to address this?
Can and/or should we start using digital signage LCD for gaming... I have seen 42-47" digital signage from viewsonic/samsung/NEC for LESS than $600... NOT bad for 6-10ms lag
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post #4288 of 4289 Old 12-10-2014, 07:20 PM
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The issue is that these displays are made for static images, not moving pictures. Because of this, they use slow panels and ghosting is a big issue.
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post #4289 of 4289 Unread Today, 06:39 AM
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can some answer my questions about my samsung LN55C650.
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Reply LCD Flat Panel Displays

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Lcd Hdtv , Displays , Plasma Hdtv , Sony Bravia Kdl 55ex500 Series 55 Inch Lcd Tv Black
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