Input lag wars!, post your input lag results of your LCD display here for reference - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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post #631 of 4288 Old 03-22-2010, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharky974 View Post

Do I just take the highest clear value on the right side regardless of row (probably 10.625, though a bit blurry), and compare it to the highest clear value on the left side (probably 10.676, though also blurry) even though they're on different rows?

I've come to the conclusion that this is actually a rather complicated issue with no clear answer. What do we consider a "real" lag value to be? How do we normalize values across the multitude of test methods, so we're comparing meaningful values? With the data we have now, I think some TVs appear better or worse than they really are, depending on the test methods that were used.

For example, SMTT is so precise that it allows you to distinguish input lag from pixel lag. With other timer tests, it's not clear which is which. You usually end up reading partially visible values on a single timer.

In my SMTT tests of my LH20, if I consider only the input lag (using the highest barely visible number), I get 21ms. This is lower than the usual timer tests, which average somewhere around 25ms. If I consider the time to a fully fired pixel (using the highest fully visible number), I end up with 30ms. What is the real, meaningful value to put on the list of TV models?

It's really hard to think every time I look at some numbers on the model list about the test differences, guess about their effects, then do the mental math to compare results . If there was at least some "standard" to reference, it would help a lot.

Naturally, I've got ideas about it, but I'd rather hear what other people think before I blather on further...
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post #632 of 4288 Old 03-22-2010, 01:03 PM
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Are there any tests for the l37g1? Here they don't have the l37s1 which is reported to be a very good TV for gaming but they do have the l37g1.
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post #633 of 4288 Old 03-22-2010, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viche View Post

But don't the LG and Sony lag a lot with 100/200 hz engaged? You could turn auto motion plus on on the Samsung and get smooth motion as well I'd assume. Neither solves your problem.

I've heard that Z4500 doesn't lag much. Same with LGs even with 100/200hz on. At least I couldn't notice it at all.

Actually I'm worried about this problem since everyone say how it makes games unplayable but looking at the video in the first post of this thread (ex500 vs some other display) I can't really see any lag there in that Counter-strike video despite Sony having a 100ms lag. I mean at the very beginning looking at the screen as a whole I can see some minor differences but it's almost unnoticeable even with 2 screens close to each other. I have no idea how can people notice it in normal use.
Then again I can see it getting annoying when dragging that window on a PC.


So I'm a bit stuck whether should I buy a Samsung TV for gaming because I love their image quality or Panny just for lower input lag. Ehh
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post #634 of 4288 Old 03-22-2010, 01:51 PM
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Here is my report for LG 42SL8500, let me me know what you think...

LG 42SL8500 (same as SL8000)

Input lag: 40 - 50 ms (2.5 - 3 frames)

Hardware used for the test:

ATI Radeon 9700 Pro, with dual display (VGA + DVI)

Display 1: on VGA-port, LCD Monitor, Acer AL 1751 (measured at 12 ms)
Display 2: on HDMI-port, LCD HDTV, LG 42SL8500

Resolution: 1280 x 960 (was the only resolution monitor supported and did not upscale on TV, it also kept PC mode)
Refresh rate: 60Hz
Input: HDMI1
Mode/label: PC (almost all display options were grayed out)
Profile: Game

To show that the control display had an average of 12 ms of delay I tested it against a CRT:



Results: 11, 13 and 10 ms
Average: 12 ms (I will add 10 ms to all results)

Here are some of the results using both SMTT and the timer at lagom.nl which I found more consistent than flatpanels.dk. Remember to add 10 ms to all results.

lagom.nl


Results: 40,41 and 42 ms
Average using all samples (12): 37 ms (on several pictures I took I could see next number appearing so I used the highest number)
Average after adding TFT delay: 47 ms

SMTT


Results: 45,39 and 37 ms
Average using all samples (13): 39 ms
Average after adding TFT delay: 49 ms


As a side note: I also measured CRT vs the TV att full 1080p resolution and got a little lower average, 42 ms. Don't know if the difference had to do with scaling after all, but at 1280 x 960 the image on the TV looked crisp and left black bars around the image. Doesn't matter much, as lag is still 40 - 50 ms and not 10 - 30 ms as reported elsewhere.

-swex
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post #635 of 4288 Old 03-22-2010, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swexican View Post

Here is my report for LG 42SL8500, let me me know what you think...

...

As a side note: I also measured CRT vs the TV att full 1080p resolution and got a little lower average, 42 ms. Don't know if the difference had to do with scaling after all, but at 1280 x 960 the image on the TV looked crisp and left black bars around the image.

Very nice work!

I suspect that the difference of 42 vs 49ms has more to do with accounting for the lag of the Acer LCD than the non-native resolution. I'd lean more towards the CRT test, since it eliminates both of these variables. It's not a big difference, anyway.

It's interesting that several of us have now seen similar results between SMTT and the Flash-based flatpanels.dk/lagom.nl timer tests. I guess under the right conditions the Flash tests can be reasonably accurate. The problem is that you can't always tell if you have the right conditions, so SMTT is still the gold standard IMO.
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post #636 of 4288 Old 03-22-2010, 03:38 PM - Thread Starter
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the flash timers can be quite inaccurate at times, if you weed our the abnormal ones or average them then you usually end up with the same result as SMTT or very close.

here is a few tests i did back when i had the 32XBR6 and i ran multiple timers on the PC and they almost always had results varied by +/- 16ms


47,47,31


47,47,27(this figure is questionable though)

and lastly here is a real gem

46,31,16!!!!!

btw this TV always averaged around the low to mid 40ms range in all tests i ever did to it and there was many

If you're a gamer or interested in using an LCD TV as a primary monitor take a look at my thread on Input Lag
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post #637 of 4288 Old 03-22-2010, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swexican View Post

Here is my report for LG 42SL8500

Thanks, I was thinking about returning my lh7020 and getting a sl8000 for the supposedly lower input lag but your results match with my tv. I would wager that all 2009 LG TVs with trumotion will perform similar.

@frito The OP claims that the lh90 (2 frames delayed) was tested vs a CRT, but the tester clearly stated that he used a (fairly old) AOpen F2705 for compairson.
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post #638 of 4288 Old 03-22-2010, 08:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swexican View Post

Here is my report for LG 42SL8500, let me me know what you think...

-swex

Nice job!

In real life, have this amount of lag really affected your video game playing?
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post #639 of 4288 Old 03-22-2010, 08:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AABBCCAA View Post

Thanks, I was thinking about returning my lh7020 and getting a sl8000 for the supposedly lower input lag but your results match with my tv. I would wager that all 2009 LG TVs with trumotion will perform similar.

@frito The OP claims that the lh90 (2 frames delayed) was tested vs a CRT, but the tester clearly stated that he used a (fairly old) AOpen F2705 for compairson.

ah ok i'll get that corrected thanks for pointing that out

If you're a gamer or interested in using an LCD TV as a primary monitor take a look at my thread on Input Lag
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post #640 of 4288 Old 03-22-2010, 11:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by szymon247 View Post

I've heard that Z4500 doesn't lag much. Same with LGs even with 100/200hz on. At least I couldn't notice it at all.

Actually I'm worried about this problem since everyone say how it makes games unplayable but looking at the video in the first post of this thread (ex500 vs some other display) I can't really see any lag there in that Counter-strike video despite Sony having a 100ms lag. I mean at the very beginning looking at the screen as a whole I can see some minor differences but it's almost unnoticeable even with 2 screens close to each other. I have no idea how can people notice it in normal use.
Then again I can see it getting annoying when dragging that window on a PC.


So I'm a bit stuck whether should I buy a Samsung TV for gaming because I love their image quality or Panny just for lower input lag. Ehh

I would stay away from Samsung if you are at all serious about online gaming. I have a 750 and will never buy another Samsung tv again the input lag is so bad. From what I hear the large LG tvs are better input lag wise than a Samsung, and obviously a Panny is the best but they only go up to like 37 inches I believe.

Input lag test results on the 52A750

"Maybe the input lag on this set matches the lag in your head therefore you don't perceive it".
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post #641 of 4288 Old 03-22-2010, 11:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aquastorm View Post

I would stay away from Samsung if you are at all serious about online gaming. I have a 750 and will never buy another Samsung tv again the input lag is so bad. From what I hear the large LG tvs are better input lag wise than a Samsung, and obviously a Panny is the best but they only go up to like 37 inches I believe.

42" now in LCD but they are laggier than the 32/37" models with the IPS-Alpha panels but still acceptable to most users and on par with LG IPS TV's (because they are using the same panel of course)

Panasonic Plasma's and Sharp LCD's are the best TV's for very low input lag in a display larger than 37-42"

If you're a gamer or interested in using an LCD TV as a primary monitor take a look at my thread on Input Lag
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post #642 of 4288 Old 03-23-2010, 03:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToiletSiphon View Post

Nice job!

In real life, have this amount of lag really affected your video game playing?

Yes, in my case it has. And not because it makes me a worse player (I'm already a horrible player at FPS ), but because it distracts me from the in game experience. And that's all that matters to me, to enjoy the game, not to be the best. I can probably get used to it, but why should I? =/ The only reason I might keep this TV is because I love every other aspect of it...
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post #643 of 4288 Old 03-23-2010, 04:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wondras View Post

Very nice work!

I suspect that the difference of 42 vs 49ms has more to do with accounting for the lag of the Acer LCD than the non-native resolution. I'd lean more towards the CRT test, since it eliminates both of these variables. It's not a big difference, anyway.

Maybe, but I already added 10 ms of delay to compensate for that, but I only took 3 pictures of that tests so the difference could be higher in theory. I can add the pictures from my CRT vs HDTV tests to the report if you think they are more accurate

Quote:


It's interesting that several of us have now seen similar results between SMTT and the Flash-based flatpanels.dk/lagom.nl timer tests. I guess under the right conditions the Flash tests can be reasonably accurate. The problem is that you can't always tell if you have the right conditions, so SMTT is still the gold standard IMO.

The problem with flash is that it's quite resource intensive even for the simplest of animations, and thats why I think we get hiccups every now and then (you can see them if you just stare for a while). On my Macbook I got them all the time. The timer at lagom.nl on the other hand, is made in JavaScript and it looks more fluid to me. It also shows the difference in frames which is a help.
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post #644 of 4288 Old 03-23-2010, 06:34 AM
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Hi,

First of all, forgive me my bad english... i live in europe

Because i'm buying a new TV (LED 46"), soon, i have been reading this (great) thread, to help me choose the best one (less input lag).

So yesterday, i decided to test my 3 years old SAMSUNG 40F86BDX (it's an european model, i thing there are an equivalent model in the US).

Using the FlatPanels.dk tool, against a Samsung CRT, in clone mode at 1920x1080 60Hz, with ATI 5970:
- HDMI 2 on LCD (DVI-HDMI adapter used on ATI 5970)
- VGA on CRT (DVI-VGA adapter used on ATI 5970)
* I used a camera with 800/1600 ISO, and set to 1/60.

The results give me always a constant 50-60 ms of delay.

It didn't change the result, turning GAME Mode ON, or renaming the HDMI2 to PC.
I use the LCD always in Movie Mode (Motion and DNIe off),
when i'm gaming or see movies.

Because i wanted to know if this result is accurate, i tried to
use the SMTT tool (win7 x64).

But, maybe because this tool, runs in directx mode, when i run the tool in clone mode, i only see the tool running, in the display that is defined as Primary Display, not in the other display (stays black)

I am doing anything wrong, or is a limitation of ATI Card ?

Ah, i'm searching for a 46" PHILIPS LED - 46PFL9704H.
It's seems that have a low input lag (10ms) with game mode.
Need more info to confirm that.

Thanks again for the great work.
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post #645 of 4288 Old 03-23-2010, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frito View Post

42" now in LCD but they are laggier than the 32/37" models with the IPS-Alpha panels but still acceptable to most users and on par with LG IPS TV's (because they are using the same panel of course)

Panasonic Plasma's and Sharp LCD's are the best TV's for very low input lag in a display larger than 37-42"

Oh ok, so I assume then that the smaller Sharp TV's (32-37 etc) are the fastest input lag wise aside from Panasonic? What I'm thinking about doing is going today to pick up a smaller LCD from a manufacturer that also makes larger LCDs for one of my guest bed rooms to see what that brands/panels lag is like to help me make my decision for the large tv in the living room.

If I understand correctly this is how the brands in question rank in order of least to most amount of lag?

Panasonic (although no sizes larger than 42 for LCD, not an option for me)
Sharp
LG

correct?

Input lag test results on the 52A750

"Maybe the input lag on this set matches the lag in your head therefore you don't perceive it".
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post #646 of 4288 Old 03-23-2010, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aquastorm View Post

What I'm thinking about doing is going today to pick up a smaller LCD from a manufacturer that also makes larger LCDs for one of my guest bed rooms to see what that brands/panels lag is like to help me make my decision for the large tv in the living room.

You can't really assume that one size has anything in common with the other. If the panel type is known to be the same, and the feature sets are similar, then perhaps it's a fair indicator, but this isn't very common.

Quote:
If I understand correctly this is how the brands in question rank in order of least to most amount of lag?

Panasonic (although no sizes larger than 42 for LCD, not an option for me)
Sharp
LG

correct?

That's about right, but again, models (and even panels for a particular model) will vary.
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post #647 of 4288 Old 03-23-2010, 11:20 AM
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Speaking of panel types, I found a thread on that "other" forum that has closeup pics of the pixel structure for most types of LCDs.

http://www.avforums.com/forums/lcd-led-lcd-tvs/1113353-lcd-matrices-differences-what-models-placed.html
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post #648 of 4288 Old 03-23-2010, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wondras View Post

You can't really assume that one size has anything in common with the other. If the panel type is known to be the same, and the feature sets are similar, then perhaps it's a fair indicator, but this isn't very common.



That's about right, but again, models (and even panels for a particular model) will vary.

Does anyone have any info on this 32 inch Sharp input lag wise? Which technologies/panels should one stay away from in the Sharp line?

Input lag test results on the 52A750

"Maybe the input lag on this set matches the lag in your head therefore you don't perceive it".
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post #649 of 4288 Old 03-23-2010, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aquastorm View Post

I would stay away from Samsung if you are at all serious about online gaming. I have a 750 and will never buy another Samsung tv again the input lag is so bad. From what I hear the large LG tvs are better input lag wise than a Samsung, and obviously a Panny is the best but they only go up to like 37 inches I believe.

I'm not really playing online. I'd love to hook my TV up with Xbox360 to play offline though. Not games where lag is extremely important - more of the likes of GTA, Assassins creed and sometimes shooters or sports. I don't know how it would affect me but when I played on my friend's TV I was too busy playing to notice any lags, even though we had 200hz on.

I've heard about new Panasonics and new gen IPS-alpha panels with deep black levels and really pop colors. If that's true and comes in a cheaper price then it'd be a Samsung killer for me because Panny's older models just couldn't compete in anything except of input lag.
I guess I really love Samsung TVs too much - I guess it's their image processing that makes the image quality so nice to me. No other TV I have seen has these colors.
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post #650 of 4288 Old 03-23-2010, 06:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by szymon247 View Post

I'm not really playing online. I'd love to hook my TV up with Xbox360 to play offline though. Not games where lag is extremely important - more of the likes of GTA, Assassins creed and sometimes shooters or sports. I don't know how it would affect me but when I played on my friend's TV I was too busy playing to notice any lags, even though we had 200hz on.

I've heard about new Panasonics and new gen IPS-alpha panels with deep black levels and really pop colors. If that's true and comes in a cheaper price then it'd be a Samsung killer for me because Panny's older models just couldn't compete in anything except of input lag.
I guess I really love Samsung TVs too much - I guess it's their image processing that makes the image quality so nice to me. No other TV I have seen has these colors.

In the end it's your choice but I'm warning you that input lag will make playing games less enjoyable even offline ones. High input lag just makes the controls feel unresponsive and slippery don't know how else to put it. I don't care how great the picture looks if it virtually ruins the experience of playing a game. Samsung has a major problem balancing PQ with performance. I'm sure many manufacturers could create a near perfect picture if they over processed the image like Samsungs do.. hence the high amount of input lag.

Input lag test results on the 52A750

"Maybe the input lag on this set matches the lag in your head therefore you don't perceive it".
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post #651 of 4288 Old 03-23-2010, 07:10 PM
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Is there any difference in lag between the L32X1 and L37X1?
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post #652 of 4288 Old 03-23-2010, 07:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theslug View Post

Is there any difference in lag between the L32X1 and L37X1?

no there should not be any difference because they both use IPS-Alpha 720p panels

32/37X1 are 720p IPS-Alpha
32/37S1 are 1080p IPS-Alpha
32G1 is 720p IPS-Alpha
37G1 is 1080p IPS-Alpha

If you're a gamer or interested in using an LCD TV as a primary monitor take a look at my thread on Input Lag
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post #653 of 4288 Old 03-23-2010, 08:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aquastorm View Post

Does anyone have any info on this 32 inch Sharp 700UN input lag wise? Which technologies/panels should one stay away from in the Sharp line?

Do not purchase one based upon what i have read, but i've read a couple of people claiming the Sharp 700UN has low input lag, but i never recall seeing any actual tests, so their judgment is suspect in my book.

Perhaps try some google searches for "700UN input lag" or "LE700 input lag" and see if anyone has performed any tests? Of course if you find any actual tests, please post a link here for Frito to check out

The Big Sharp 700UN thread may have more info, but i haven't seen any tests yet, i haven't searched that thread too well though.
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post #654 of 4288 Old 03-23-2010, 08:51 PM
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These manufacturers need to be nudged into advertising the input lag on these sets like they do response times as this factors into many peoples decision. I'm guessing they don't really like these input lag numbers being known and or advertised...

Input lag test results on the 52A750

"Maybe the input lag on this set matches the lag in your head therefore you don't perceive it".
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post #655 of 4288 Old 03-23-2010, 08:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjetski71 View Post

Do not purchase one based upon what i have read, but i've read a couple of people claiming the Sharp 700UN has low input lag, but i never recall seeing any actual tests, so their judgment is suspect in my book.

Perhaps try some google searches for "700UN input lag" or "LE700 input lag" and see if anyone has performed any tests? Of course if you find any actual tests, please post a link here for Frito to check out

The Big Sharp 700UN thread may have more info, but i haven't seen any tests yet, i haven't searched that thread too well though.

Yah I googled it and most of what I came up with is a consensus that it has a very low amount of input lag BUT I can remember back to when my tv first came out and all the morons in the thread for it were saying there wasn't any input lag.

Input lag test results on the 52A750

"Maybe the input lag on this set matches the lag in your head therefore you don't perceive it".
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post #656 of 4288 Old 03-23-2010, 10:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aquastorm View Post

These manufacturers need to be nudged into advertising the input lag on these sets like they do response times as this factors into many peoples decision. I'm guessing they don't really like these input lag numbers being known and or advertised...

you are correct, manufactures DO know about input lag very much so.

this is evidenced in the PC display market, when they first introduced RTC (overdrive) on LCD monitor shortly there after there was an uproar of reports of input lag and review sites documenting the problems it caused and not one single manufacture would admit to RTC being the cause of them even though it was 100% the case.

same thing happened in that market when they tried to push *VA into it. manufactures would not comment on the problem and the end result today is that the vast majority of PC LCD's are still TN panels because they are superior in ever aspect for that use except color range (not by that much though) and viewing angles and that has been improved on TN panels to the point that they hold decent pictures at horizontal off angles and only invert on vertical angles.

the TN panels made today that have RTC to bring response times down >= 2ms almost always have the option in their menu to turn off RTC to remove its side effects mainly input lag.

I've actually came across one review site that had a person that worked for a major display manufacture reply to them about the problem and bring much insight into the whole issue but he specifically wanted it to be anonymous who he was and who he worked for because the manufactures obviously do not want this stuff to be well known publicly

here is the quote

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anandtech View Post

Update: What Causes Display Lag?

After the initial article went live, one of our readers who works in the display industry sent me an email. He provides some interesting information about the causes of image lag. Below is an (edited) excerpt from his email. (He wished to remain anonymous.)

PVA and MVA have inherent drawbacks with respect to LCD response time, especially gray-to-gray. To address this shortcoming, companies have invested in ASICs that perform a trick generically referred to as "overshoot." The liquid crystal (LC) material in *VA responds sluggishly to small voltage changes (a change from one gray level to another). To fix this, the ASIC does some image processing and basically applies an overvoltage to the electrodes of the affected pixel to spur the LC material into rapid movement. Eventually the correct settling voltage is applied to hold the pixel at the required level matching the input drive level.

It's very complicated math taking place in the ASIC in real time. It works well but with an important caveat: it requires a frame buffer. What this means is that as video comes into the panel, there is a memory device that can capture one whole video frame and hold it. After comparing it to the next incoming frame, the required overshoot calculations are made. Only then is the first captured frame released to the panel's timing controller, which is when the frame is rendered to the screen. As you may have already guessed, that causes at least one frame time worth of lag (17ms).

Some companies discovered some unintended artifacts in their overshoot calculations and the only way they saw to correct these was to allow for their algorithm to look ahead by two frames instead of one. So they had to up the memory of the frame buffer and now they started capturing and holding not one but two frames upon which they make their complex overshoot predictions to apply the corrected pixel drive levels and reduce gray-to-gray response time (at the expense of lag time). Again, it works very well for improving response time, but at the expense of causing lag, which gamers hate. That in a nutshell is the basis of around 33ms of the lag measured with S-PVA.

[End Excerpt - the following is not from our reader]

Not every display uses this approach, but this could account for the increase in display lag between earlier S-PVA and later S-PVA panels. It's also important to note that I tested the Dell 2408WFP revision A00, and apparently revision A01 does not have as much lag. I have not been able to confirm this personally, however. The above also suggest that displays designed to provide a higher image quality through various signal processing techniques could end up with more display lag caused by the microchip and microcode, which makes sense. Now all we need are better algorithms and technologies in order to reduce the need for all of this extra image processing -- or as we have seen with some displays (particularly HDTVs), the ability to disable the image processing.


http://www.anandtech.com/printarticle.aspx?i=3584

If you're a gamer or interested in using an LCD TV as a primary monitor take a look at my thread on Input Lag
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post #657 of 4288 Old 03-24-2010, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by theslug View Post

Is there any difference in lag between the L32X1 and L37X1?

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Originally Posted by frito View Post

no there should not be any difference because they both use IPS-Alpha 720p panels

32/37X1 are 720p IPS-Alpha
32/37S1 are 1080p IPS-Alpha
32G1 is 720p IPS-Alpha
37G1 is 1080p IPS-Alpha

Actutally, this page indicates that the 37X1 is not an Alpha panel:

http://www2.panasonic.com/consumer-e...00000000005702

It specifically says "** IPS Alpha Panel: L32X1, IPS Panel: L37X1"

If you download the spec sheet, it says "VA" for the 26-inch, and just "IPS" for the 32 and 37.

However, given the near-zero lag that has been reported on this set, I have to assume that at least some of them do in fact have Alpha panels.

I didn't get a closeup shot of the panel when I was messing around with the X1 they had in the store, but I'm guessing it was IPS-Alpha, since the lag was lowest of anything I tried while I was there.
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post #658 of 4288 Old 03-24-2010, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by aquastorm View Post

These manufacturers need to be nudged into advertising the input lag on these sets like they do response times as this factors into many peoples decision. I'm guessing they don't really like these input lag numbers being known and or advertised...

It's probably just as well that they don't. They'd just come up with crazy schemes to exaggerate their numbers like they do for contrast ratios. (Panasonic's "Infinite Black" feature on their plasmas, anyone? Sounds great, but all it does is turn the screen OFF when there is no video input, and only when in the useless Vivid picture mode, to make sure it never actually happens.)

They'd bury some sort of obscurely-named mode with no RTC, no image processing, even no scaling, which would look horrendous but have pretty much zero lag. Maybe they'd even come up with some sort of "predictive" feature and claim negative lag!

I wish the Federal Trade Commission would do for TV specs what they did for amplifier specs back in the 80s (70s?) They require advertised specs for power output to meet specific criteria -- RMS power across its full frequency range, and the total distortion at that power level. This makes it very hard to cheat, which they did big-time before that.

I remember cheap Walkman speakers that had "300W peak music power output," which is of course just as meaningless as the "dynamic contrast ratio" we get today.


DEAR MANUFACTURERS: Please cut the crap. Give us ANSI contrast, worst-case response times, and input lag meeting some minimum image quality.
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post #659 of 4288 Old 03-24-2010, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by aquastorm View Post

I would stay away from Samsung if you are at all serious about online gaming. I have a 750 and will never buy another Samsung tv again the input lag is so bad. From what I hear the large LG tvs are better input lag wise than a Samsung, and obviously a Panny is the best but they only go up to like 37 inches I believe.

Have you tried switching to native color as someone above suggested?
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post #660 of 4288 Old 03-24-2010, 05:11 PM
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Have you tried switching to native color as someone above suggested?

Yah, I've tried everything with this Samsung, it just sucks period for gaming. Even the "game mode" which looks HORRIBLE and is not at all customizable has a noticeable amount of input lag.

Input lag test results on the 52A750

"Maybe the input lag on this set matches the lag in your head therefore you don't perceive it".
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