Input lag wars!, post your input lag results of your LCD display here for reference - Page 28 - AVS Forum
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post #811 of 4276 Old 04-10-2010, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by frito View Post

this is correct and i agree completely

turn off everything and turn on game mode.

I had them both (Fast Motion Enhanced and Dynamic Contrast) turned on because with both or one or the other turned off I was consistently getting 10~13ms of lag time. When I turned them both on, I started getting the weird 1~40ms, and then consistently ~20ms. So I deleted all of my pictures, went back, and did the tests, again. I turned everything off.... 20 ms. I turned one or the other on... 10~20 ms... Then I turned on both of the features again, and was getting about 20ms, but with times of consistent 2 ms rates.

Keep in mind that this whole time, I was taking pictures of the entire screen, but it was rather difficult taking readable pictures at 3200 ISO on my tiny Lumix FX30. At that point in time, I got fed up with it and started taking pictures of one half of the screen, since I figured it was good enough.

Anyways, I have some tests on Monday so I don't have time for all of this. But after they're done, I'll go back and take 10 pictures of each mode and upload them here, just for ya'll . This laptop also has a VGA-out port, so if I manage to find an old CRT monitor somewhere, I'll lag test it, too.

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post #812 of 4276 Old 04-10-2010, 07:42 PM
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Does anyone have any input lag info on the Panasonic TC-L37X2? Does it have an ips alpha panel? Considering getting this strictly for online gaming with ps3 as I'm super sensetive to input lag..

Input lag test results on the 52A750

"Maybe the input lag on this set matches the lag in your head therefore you don't perceive it".
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post #813 of 4276 Old 04-11-2010, 03:12 AM
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Originally Posted by frito View Post


not sure why your getting like 10ms lag when using HDMI

Isn't he getting a 10~ ms lag when using DVI though? Am I misinterpreting the screenshots?
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post #814 of 4276 Old 04-11-2010, 09:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Retri View Post

Isn't he getting a 10~ ms lag when using DVI though? Am I misinterpreting the screenshots?

no it's actually 10ms ahead of the CRT

where the CRT scan line is timer on the LCD always matched the CRT and on the other timer that would presumably be behind the LCD's scan line is in fact already changed indicating that the monitor is actually updating the screen more like a plasma and at a full frame all at once. most LCD's refresh like CRT's from top to bottom of the screen

I'd have to see more test programs like SMTT ran on it or one of the frame scroller apps to see exactly how the LCD is working to be sure that is what it is and the 10ms advantage is not just simple output delay from the PC's video card which is actually more likely to be the reason for it

If you're a gamer or interested in using an LCD TV as a primary monitor take a look at my thread on Input Lag
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post #815 of 4276 Old 04-11-2010, 12:02 PM
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Right now I am stuck between the TC-L32S1 and the Panasonic 42 G25. However, I think the less than 40" screen would be best. However, are there any IPS-A panels with LED, or I guess I am asking any that has almost Plasma blacks and good color in a smaller form factor. It appears that the TC-L32S1 will suffer a little with image quality, but the speed is there.

The half price of the L32S1 is nice though compared to the Plasma. Any thoughts of another IPS-A that I am missing? I hate the fact that LG does the oh bait and switch. Don't have the patience in the IPS or not angle I saw mentioned that they do. That is bad form!

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post #816 of 4276 Old 04-11-2010, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by wegafan View Post

Right now I am stuck between the TC-L32S1 and the Panasonic 42 G25. However, I think the less than 40" screen would be best. However, are there any IPS-A panels with LED, or I guess I am asking any that has almost Plasma blacks and good color in a smaller form factor. It appears that the TC-L32S1 will suffer a little with image quality, but the speed is there.

The half price of the L32S1 is nice though compared to the Plasma. Any thoughts of another IPS-A that I am missing? I hate the fact that LG does the oh bait and switch. Don't have the patience in the IPS or not angle I saw mentioned that they do. That is bad form!

On one hand, I've heard that this year's Panasonic G2X series of TVs are totally awesome and fix all of the crap that's happened in the past.

On the other hand, I've heard that all brands of TVs seem to be worse this year in the input lag department, and the Panasonic G2X's are included.

If you're unsure, just haul your gaming machine to Best Buy and test out the TVs. Make sure you speak to a manager, though, because I've gotten some outside asinine responses from some of the dimwit employees that didn't want me to test the TVs for input lag.

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post #817 of 4276 Old 04-11-2010, 12:23 PM
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post #818 of 4276 Old 04-11-2010, 01:14 PM
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WOW. Sounds good so far. Just need the lag test on these I assume this is IPS-A which is best..correct? It looks to have the wide viewing angle, and the 37 would work in my setup

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post #819 of 4276 Old 04-11-2010, 01:46 PM
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with the different reports of input lag on the g2x series, I'm wondering what the real numbers are?
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post #820 of 4276 Old 04-11-2010, 02:25 PM - Thread Starter
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http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1166196

G20 appears to have 16-32ms lag and the VT20 is around 32ms as well. i would consider panny plasma's to still be better than pretty much all TV's in the larger screen sizes still and the new models appear to perform the same as 2009 models if you read the results in that thread.

If you're a gamer or interested in using an LCD TV as a primary monitor take a look at my thread on Input Lag
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post #821 of 4276 Old 04-11-2010, 02:52 PM
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I was at Costco today looking at the selection of screens because I'm hoping to find a good 55"+ lcd for gaming without having to worry about major input lag and I noticed something very weird. The salesman at the end of the isle pulled up the Direct TV channel menu and started scrolling down through the channels and I noticed that all the tv's were actually displaying the menu changes a few ms behind than the 60" Sharp and 60" Sony EX500/700 models. I asked the salesman to flip through the channels and every time he did the picture appeared first on the Sharp and the Sonys in the 60" models. All of the others models including the Vizio, Samsung C6400, and even the Sony EX models below 60" seemed to display channel changes a few hairs of a second behind the 60" models. Does this have anything to do with input lag? I asked the salesman what he thought about it and he had no idea what I was talking about.
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post #822 of 4276 Old 04-11-2010, 03:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony6225 View Post

I was at Costco today looking at the selection of screens because I'm hoping to find a good 55"+ lcd for gaming without having to worry about major input lag and I noticed something very weird. The salesman at the end of the isle pulled up the Direct TV channel menu and started scrolling down through the channels and I noticed that all the tv's were actually displaying the menu changes a few ms behind than the 60" Sharp and 60" Sony EX500/700 models. I asked the salesman to flip through the channels and every time he did the picture appeared first on the Sharp and the Sonys in the 60" models. All of the others models including the Vizio, Samsung C6400, and even the Sony EX models below 60" seemed to display channel changes a few hairs of a second behind the 60" models. Does this have anything to do with input lag? I asked the salesman what he thought about it and he had no idea what I was talking about.

yeah its visually seeing input lag right there. I'm somewhat surprised the sony was fast but not entirely because the 60" LCD is a Sharp made panel as they are the only ones who make it (its one of the new X-Gen panels)

i've seen this happen before in stores with the demo feed when certain things are playing back that causes obvious changes in the picture but its still a very inaccurate and difficult way to determine what TV is fastest for many reasons

#1 store feeds are usually using the TV's internal tuner and its input lag performance does not matter for gaming

#2 if they are using HDMI or Component splitters all things need to be equal for every TV in order to get the best performance out of the TV input lag wise.

#3 some stores may be using mixed connection methods on the TV's i.e. some HDMI some component video and some over the tuner etc. or also differing splitter hardware/video cable lengths etc.

If you're a gamer or interested in using an LCD TV as a primary monitor take a look at my thread on Input Lag
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post #823 of 4276 Old 04-11-2010, 11:50 PM
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Originally Posted by sjetski71 View Post

For Monitor use? Then 1080P will make all the difference. Plus the added, albeit minor, benefit that all future consoles will be 1080P.

The X1's 1366 horizontal pixel count isn't too bad, but the paltry 768 vertical pixel count is pretty limiting for monitor use.

But heck we're all different, if you're happy with it then that's what matters most, and under $400 sounds like a good price for an IPS-A TV

Totally agree - you gotta go 1080p for a PC monitor - 720p just doesn't cut it.

I think it'll be quite some time before all games are native 1080p. The hardware on this current gen of consoles could just not keep up.

Plus all I really cared about was input lag lol. Otherwise I wouldn't have gotten the X1
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post #824 of 4276 Old 04-12-2010, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Viche View Post

Has anyone looked into which panels are used on various projectors and the lag and motion blur issues they might have? I've been considering getting Panasonic AE4000 and I remember seeing in that thread that people were getting 31ms. I'm getting really tired of the motion blur without motion control turned on though, so I wonder how that projector would look with motion control turned off.

Any thoughts on this?

Quote:

I'm confused about the D2 game mode. Looks like it reduces motion blur and increases motion resolution, but those are things you don't normally see in game mode because they increase lag....what's going on there?
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post #825 of 4276 Old 04-12-2010, 12:34 PM
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There are a number of discussions on the PJ forums about projectors and lag times. If I am not mistaken, the Panny performs pretty well as far as lag....as best I can remember reading. It is not 0 though. Also, if you run through a receiver you may add even more lag. Some are better than others.

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post #826 of 4276 Old 04-12-2010, 01:13 PM
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I'm new to this discussion, but I just got some info that I wanted to share as I hadn't seen it elsewhere yet. I have an old Aquos lc-32gp1u with Vyper Drive and I love it for gaming. I'm terrified of input lag, so I'm considering my next purchase very carefully. I had a chat conversation with one of the Sharp representatives on their website. Initially they told me that the lc-52le810 and lc-52le820 would not have Vyper Drive, so I asked which 2010 models would. She then apologized for giving me "incorrect information" and said that all 2010 models "are expected to have Vyper Drive". I accidentally deleted the exact transcript of our chat, but I thought you all might find this interesting. The question I have, and maybe some of you all know, is whether the Vyper Drive TV's since my current one have performed well and whether we should be hopeful for the upcoming Sharps. If anybody has access to one and wants to post some results, that would be great too
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post #827 of 4276 Old 04-12-2010, 02:32 PM
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Hi Hossenstein,

Check the first post in this thread on page 1, I think the Vyper Drive is mentioned. Also, if I remember correctly, these traditionally have not been the IPS-A or IPS-Pro panels. However, they have used a method to have "low lag". So if tradition is a way to see the future, they may well keep lag low.

I currently am pondering the L37D2's since they will be IPS panels, with LED backlight (EEFL bulbs), and if tradition is a way to see the future, they may well keep lag low like their older brothers

However, I could order it and lag all over the place :\\ I think they come out May 1ish.

Good Luck.

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post #828 of 4276 Old 04-12-2010, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aquastorm View Post

Does anyone have any input lag info on the Panasonic TC-L37X2? Does it have an ips alpha panel? Considering getting this strictly for online gaming with ps3 as I'm super sensetive to input lag..

I'd be interested in knowing this as well considering the x1 series is getting harder to find.
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post #829 of 4276 Old 04-12-2010, 06:42 PM - Thread Starter
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It's unlikely the X2 has an IPS-Alpha panel, Panasonic appears to be putting LG IPS panels in most of the new LCD TV's to cut costs and be more competitive.

the D2 LED line will have IPS-Alpha panels at least according to Panasonic Europe but it should be the same case in the US

If you're a gamer or interested in using an LCD TV as a primary monitor take a look at my thread on Input Lag
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post #830 of 4276 Old 04-12-2010, 06:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hossenstein View Post

I'm new to this discussion, but I just got some info that I wanted to share as I hadn't seen it elsewhere yet. I have an old Aquos lc-32gp1u with Vyper Drive and I love it for gaming. I'm terrified of input lag, so I'm considering my next purchase very carefully. I had a chat conversation with one of the Sharp representatives on their website. Initially they told me that the lc-52le810 and lc-52le820 would not have Vyper Drive, so I asked which 2010 models would. She then apologized for giving me "incorrect information" and said that all 2010 models "are expected to have Vyper Drive". I accidentally deleted the exact transcript of our chat, but I thought you all might find this interesting. The question I have, and maybe some of you all know, is whether the Vyper Drive TV's since my current one have performed well and whether we should be hopeful for the upcoming Sharps. If anybody has access to one and wants to post some results, that would be great too

on the 2009 models ones even without the Vyper Drive game mode still perfomed very good in their normal game modes so i do not expect this to change on 2010 models.

Sharp LCD TV's in game mode have always been good performers with input lag.

If you're a gamer or interested in using an LCD TV as a primary monitor take a look at my thread on Input Lag
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post #831 of 4276 Old 04-12-2010, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by frito View Post

on the 2009 models ones even without the Vyper Drive game mode still perfomed very good in their normal game modes so i do not expect this to change on 2010 models.

Sharp LCD TV's in game mode have always been good performers with input lag.

The question is, will the 4th pixel color add some delay ?!
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post #832 of 4276 Old 04-12-2010, 07:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ToiletSiphon View Post

The question is, will the 4th pixel color add some delay ?!

unlikely UV2A is more likely to reduce input lag because according to sharp it helps the pixels change state 50% faster than other VA type LCD's Natively so if anything it will help in reducing blurring and input lag. adding more pixels should have little to no impact on how it performs

If you're a gamer or interested in using an LCD TV as a primary monitor take a look at my thread on Input Lag
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post #833 of 4276 Old 04-12-2010, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by frito View Post

It's unlikely the X2 has an IPS-Alpha panel, Panasonic appears to be putting LG IPS panels in most of the new LCD TV's to cut costs and be more competitive.

How is lag affected with that type of panel compared to the other? worse/better/same?
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post #834 of 4276 Old 04-12-2010, 08:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by theslug View Post

How is lag affected with that type of panel compared to the other? worse/better/same?

they still have good input lag compared to most other TV's somewhere around 30-40ms rather than the low 10-20ms of the IPS-Alpha panels which are pretty much unmatched in HDTV's

If you're a gamer or interested in using an LCD TV as a primary monitor take a look at my thread on Input Lag
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post #835 of 4276 Old 04-13-2010, 06:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frito View Post

It's unlikely the X2 has an IPS-Alpha panel, Panasonic appears to be putting LG IPS panels in most of the new LCD TV's to cut costs and be more competitive.

the D2 LED line will have IPS-Alpha panels at least according to Panasonic Europe but it should be the same case in the US


Hope so. I am looking forward to getting some more news on this TV!

Panasonic with LED, EEFL (not sure what that means but hear its a better choice), maybe Alpha Panels. Is this the new gaming HDTV

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post #836 of 4276 Old 04-13-2010, 02:45 PM
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I remember back in October last year Panasonic was talking really a lot about their awesome upcoming 2010 IPS-Alpha panels that were supposed to have deep black levels and such. What happened to these?
Oh and I mean this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kNFFRJUXpU

Despite having a very glossy screen this seemed perfect and I was really looking forward to this.
I've heard some gossip that new Panasonic TVs will use conventional IPS from LG and IPS-Alpha from 2008. I really hope this is not true because last year's Panasonic's mid-ends were no value for money compared to competition.

On IPS Alpha's new website there's no info about any new panels. They still list the one and only 37 inch full hd 2008 model which is known to sit in all IPS-Alpha based 37 inch full HD LCDs.
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post #837 of 4276 Old 04-13-2010, 05:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by szymon247 View Post

I remember back in October last year Panasonic was talking really a lot about their awesome upcoming 2010 IPS-Alpha panels that were supposed to have deep black levels and such. What happened to these?
Oh and I mean this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kNFFRJUXpU

Despite having a very glossy screen this seemed perfect and I was really looking forward to this.
I've heard some gossip that new Panasonic TVs will use conventional IPS from LG and IPS-Alpha from 2008. I really hope this is not true because last year's Panasonic's mid-ends were no value for money compared to competition.

On IPS Alpha's new website there's no info about any new panels. They still list the one and only 37 inch full hd 2008 model which is known to sit in all IPS-Alpha based 37 inch full HD LCDs.

the IPS-Alpha TV's from last year like the S1's were overpriced compared to the competition that is until they went on close out sale and people were snatching up the 32S1's for 400-500 everywhere and the 37S1's for 600-700 everywhere

the current Panasonic model's in stores are selling at MSRP around these prices. that plus the poor lag figures of the 32U22 one user tested leads me and others to believe they are now putting cheaper LG IPS panels in these models

the up coming LED backlit models are supposed to use IPS-Alpha's and while Panasonic's US site does not specifically say they are using them their European site has said they will be using them. considering how much these TV's will sell for i'm sure they likely will be they will also be in low demand and hard to find no doubt.

If you're a gamer or interested in using an LCD TV as a primary monitor take a look at my thread on Input Lag
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post #838 of 4276 Old 04-13-2010, 08:35 PM
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Well if you check the Panasonic U.S. website, they show the IPS-Alpha logo on the L42D2 LCD features page and they dont on the lower models. Looks promising am keeping my fingers cross.


http://www2.panasonic.com/consumer-e...00000000005702
LL
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post #839 of 4276 Old 04-13-2010, 09:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by nismor2 View Post

Well if you check the Panasonic U.S. website, they show the IPS-Alpha logo on the L42D2 LCD features page and they dont on the lower models. Looks promising am keeping my fingers cross.


http://www2.panasonic.com/consumer-e...00000000005702

IPS-Alpha does not produce 42" sizes at least never has AFAIK, perhaps they recently started making them but i somehow doubt it.

the 42U12 that came out last year was for sure an LG IPS panel

If you're a gamer or interested in using an LCD TV as a primary monitor take a look at my thread on Input Lag
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post #840 of 4276 Old 04-14-2010, 06:46 AM
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Woooooooo.

I have a CRT, and my laptop has tested out very consistently at exactly 7 ms of lag. Later today, when I get back home, there will be Sharp E77U tests!

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