Input lag wars!, post your input lag results of your LCD display here for reference - Page 3 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #61 of 4218 Old 03-30-2009, 02:27 PM
Advanced Member
 
felonyr301's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 912
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by clicq View Post

I'm confused by what you're saying here -- the Dell monitor was tested to have, on average, about 4 frames of input lag. The Samsung 650, in normal mode, according to the first post on this thread, had 3-4 frames of lag, so it's comparable to the Dell monitor... so it's not actually much better...


Were you around when that DELL monitor came out first the input lag was even worse and then the people complained seriously and then later on the next batch of it reduce it a little more to something along the lines of a 120hz TV we have. It's about the same when you turn on the image enhancers but when you turn them off while still not being game mode or pc mode it is faster. Not super much but I did say better. The problem with those PC monitors is that there isn't a game mode that I can remember unless the new ones are coming with one.

Xbox Live Gamertag: FELONY 301

PSN ID: FELONY--301

No problem adding people...
felonyr301 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #62 of 4218 Old 03-30-2009, 07:47 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
frito's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: east SF bay area, ca
Posts: 3,395
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Come on guys we gotta have some more Gamers around that want to test their displays for lag

hopefully one day we can even get this sticky'd so It can be a place everyone can easily find to determine what LCD's are good for gaming and what ones are not

(shameless bump)

If you're a gamer or interested in using an LCD TV as a primary monitor take a look at my thread on Input Lag
frito is offline  
post #63 of 4218 Old 03-30-2009, 08:38 PM
Member
 
kumquatsrus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: S.O., C.A.
Posts: 179
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
lcds sux. lets all go back to our crappy ol sd crts n pwnz teh laggy hdtv noobz!

Toshyrrific!
kumquatsrus is offline  
post #64 of 4218 Old 03-30-2009, 11:03 PM
KVW
Senior Member
 
KVW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 298
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
No way! I already got my macro programmed. Tap of the f12 = "gg input lag"


Your LCD lags. Learn about input lag and be disenchanted by your expensive LCD set.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Input_lag
KVW is offline  
post #65 of 4218 Old 04-01-2009, 06:17 PM
Senior Member
 
TruckChase!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Minnesota, US
Posts: 284
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Are we accepting Rock Band 2's auto calibration numbers as valid data?

For those of you who haven't seen it: Rock Band 2's guitar has a light sensor on it; when you select auto calibrate it pulses white on the screen and the console measures the difference between time pulsed vs. time seen. I probably should do a sanity check on the same device to double check it's findings, but I'm lazy.

That being said, my 57" Sony RP CRT TV in all modes(model to follow)(1080i) clocks in at 0ms according to the game. My 42" TH-C42HD18 Plasma in game mode (720p) registers at 32ms.

I went to Best Buy yesterday and asked the manager if I could lug in my console & fake plastic guitar to test out new sets before I buy. He was skeptical at first, but when I told him that "if I can't do that I'll just buy and return sets until I find one I like" he was in agreement.

So, any opinions?

Edit: I know these aren't LCDs, but I'm hoping to be collecting data from those in this manner so I just wanted to check...

If I were Wilford Brimley, I'd like oatmeal that much too.
TruckChase! is offline  
post #66 of 4218 Old 04-01-2009, 07:08 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
frito's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: east SF bay area, ca
Posts: 3,395
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
The testing method sounds pretty accurate. I think I need to hava my friend w rock band 2 come over w/ it to see what it says for my sony

If you're a gamer or interested in using an LCD TV as a primary monitor take a look at my thread on Input Lag
frito is offline  
post #67 of 4218 Old 04-02-2009, 09:19 AM
Newbie
 
l1mkelly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 10
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
The lz800 seems to be the fastest panel one can get even though there is only the one picture to verify its performance. I wonder if the new Panasonic LCD panels would be good for gaming? The 8ms response time on the them keeps me from buying one though. Any thoughts?
l1mkelly is offline  
post #68 of 4218 Old 04-02-2009, 10:11 AM
KVW
Senior Member
 
KVW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 298
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by l1mkelly View Post

The lz800 seems to be the fastest panel one can get even though there is only the one picture to verify its performance. I wonder if the new Panasonic LCD panels would be good for gaming? The 8ms response time on the them keeps me from buying one though. Any thoughts?

I can give you many if you want. And there's plenty of pictures, some of which I even did back in Nov of last year in the owner's thread.

Pixel response time has very little impact on input lag. Pixel response time is more of a measurement to determine ghosting. The panel is great for gaming however finding one that's reasonably priced these days is another matter. If I could rewind time, I should've gotten a 37 inch for 600-800 bucks back in december. Oh well.

Your LCD lags. Learn about input lag and be disenchanted by your expensive LCD set.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Input_lag
KVW is offline  
post #69 of 4218 Old 04-02-2009, 11:02 AM
Newbie
 
l1mkelly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 10
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by KVW View Post

I can give you many if you want. And there's plenty of pictures, some of which I even did back in Nov of last year in the owner's thread.

Pixel response time has very little impact on input lag. Pixel response time is more of a measurement to determine ghosting. The panel is great for gaming however finding one that's reasonably priced these days is another matter. If I could rewind time, I should've gotten a 37 inch for 600-800 bucks back in december. Oh well.

I think you misunderstood the point I was getting at, I believe you. I was wondering though if the TC-L32S1 would provide similar performance? And if so why are no gamers going to that?
l1mkelly is offline  
post #70 of 4218 Old 04-02-2009, 12:25 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
frito's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: east SF bay area, ca
Posts: 3,395
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by KVW View Post

I can give you many if you want. And there's plenty of pictures, some of which I even did back in Nov of last year in the owner's thread.

Pixel response time has very little impact on input lag. Pixel response time is more of a measurement to determine ghosting. The panel is great for gaming however finding one that's reasonably priced these days is another matter. If I could rewind time, I should've gotten a 37 inch for 600-800 bucks back in december. Oh well.

KVW check fremont frys last weekend they still had the panny 37" LZ800 on clearance for a good price might be gone now though

If you're a gamer or interested in using an LCD TV as a primary monitor take a look at my thread on Input Lag
frito is offline  
post #71 of 4218 Old 04-02-2009, 01:51 PM
Member
 
meh :-|'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 109
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hi, interesting discussion here. I was wondering, do certain types of material lag more than others? eg: will watching a BD have the same amount of lag as playing a game?

The reason I ask is that my BD player has a built in audio delay function in it, and I was wondering if that would be a good way to measure lag (I don't own a CRT).
meh :-| is offline  
post #72 of 4218 Old 04-02-2009, 01:58 PM
Advanced Member
 
felonyr301's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 912
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by meh :-| View Post

Hi, interesting discussion here. I was wondering, do certain types of material lag more than others? eg: will watching a BD have the same amount of lag as playing a game?

Here is something for anyone not realizing what all this talk about is really about. Input lag is something to do with playing games no worries when watching movies at all since your not inputting something your just sitting on your ass and watching something.

When talking about watching something it is motion blur is what you should worry about and in the past response time but now LCD are no problem in that department. LCDs are good with the motion blur too and for some of the sensitive people 120hz LCD TVs have Motion Plus technologies to help out in that now.

Input lag= Gaming worries for a very small % of hardcore gamers. Game Mode on 08 TVs in general are fast enough for like 99% of gamers out there.

If your not a gamer or care then you don't even need to be in here looking at these numbers period.

Also...
INPUT LAG IS NOT THE SAME AS RESPONSE TIME!!!

Xbox Live Gamertag: FELONY 301

PSN ID: FELONY--301

No problem adding people...
felonyr301 is offline  
post #73 of 4218 Old 04-02-2009, 02:26 PM
KVW
Senior Member
 
KVW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 298
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
U sure it wasn't the lz85 I returned? Lol!

Your LCD lags. Learn about input lag and be disenchanted by your expensive LCD set.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Input_lag
KVW is offline  
post #74 of 4218 Old 04-02-2009, 02:42 PM
Member
 
meh :-|'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 109
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by felonyr301 View Post

Here is something for anyone not realizing what all this talk about is really about. Input lag is something to do with playing games no worries when watching movies at all since your not inputting something your just sitting on your ass and watching something.

Uhhh... why couldn't a movie lag? It outputs a video signal which gets processed by the TV which introduces lag. That's why my BD player has an audio delay function to fix lip syncing issues. My question is that wether or not this lag is consistent for all video sources, and if so, would using the audio delay function on my BD player (currently @ 50ms for an XBR6 with everything on) be an accurate way of measuiring gaming lag.
meh :-| is offline  
post #75 of 4218 Old 04-02-2009, 03:27 PM
Advanced Member
 
clicq's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Holland, MI
Posts: 864
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
How does your BD player determine the audio delay? Does it just take the information from the TV or are you setting this by hand?

The input delay, if it's bad enough and not compensated for by some other mechanism, can definitely affect movies in that the audio and video may be out of sync, though it's often hard to tell unless it's really bad.
clicq is offline  
post #76 of 4218 Old 04-02-2009, 03:55 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
frito's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: east SF bay area, ca
Posts: 3,395
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Hdmi receivers and tv's will auto sync

This problem can happen w/ optical sound and with some tv's optical output as well

If you're a gamer or interested in using an LCD TV as a primary monitor take a look at my thread on Input Lag
frito is offline  
post #77 of 4218 Old 04-02-2009, 03:55 PM
Member
 
meh :-|'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 109
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by clicq View Post

How does your BD player determine the audio delay? Does it just take the information from the TV or are you setting this by hand?

The input delay, if it's bad enough and not compensated for by some other mechanism, can definitely affect movies in that the audio and video may be out of sync, though it's often hard to tell unless it's really bad.

I have to manually pick what to set the delay to. It ranges from 0ms - 120ms.
meh :-| is offline  
post #78 of 4218 Old 04-03-2009, 08:30 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Viche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,055
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by meh :-| View Post

I have to manually pick what to set the delay to. It ranges from 0ms - 120ms.

Hey does anyone know if the PS3 or Fios Box offer this audio delay option?
Viche is offline  
post #79 of 4218 Old 04-03-2009, 10:45 AM
Advanced Member
 
clicq's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Holland, MI
Posts: 864
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by meh :-| View Post

I have to manually pick what to set the delay to. It ranges from 0ms - 120ms.

I guess it's ok to get in the ballpark, but there's a lot of subjectivity that shouldn't be there for a reliable test.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viche View Post

Hey does anyone know if the PS3 or Fios Box offer this audio delay option?

The PS3 doesn't have the option, but you shouldn't need it if you're using HDMI... if you're using optical, a lot of receivers have an audio delay option.
clicq is offline  
post #80 of 4218 Old 04-03-2009, 11:32 AM
Member
 
meh :-|'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 109
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by clicq View Post

The PS3 doesn't have the option, but you shouldn't need it if you're using HDMI... if you're using optical, a lot of receivers have an audio delay option.

My BD player is connected by HDMI and there's still an audio lag unless I specify a 50ms delay.
meh :-| is offline  
post #81 of 4218 Old 04-03-2009, 12:55 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
frito's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: east SF bay area, ca
Posts: 3,395
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by meh :-| View Post

My BD player is connected by HDMI and there's still an audio lag unless I specify a 50ms delay.

then one of the devices does not support auto voice sync

If you're a gamer or interested in using an LCD TV as a primary monitor take a look at my thread on Input Lag
frito is offline  
post #82 of 4218 Old 04-03-2009, 01:04 PM
Member
 
Frikoriko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 65
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Someone did an input lag test for the B650 using Rockband
http://www.avforums.com/forums/lcd-t...thread-11.html
Frikoriko is offline  
post #83 of 4218 Old 04-03-2009, 01:33 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Viche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,055
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by clicq View Post

I guess it's ok to get in the ballpark, but there's a lot of subjectivity that shouldn't be there for a reliable test.



The PS3 doesn't have the option, but you shouldn't need it if you're using HDMI... if you're using optical, a lot of receivers have an audio delay option.

Yeah, problem is I have a Marantz Sound Bar speaker that only supports HDMI 1.1 (no auto lip sync). It has it's own build in amp and does not require a receiver. I've been on the verge of buying a TV for forever. The plan is to have the PS3 and Fios Box decode the audio and pass PCM audio to the TV. Guess I'm screwed a far as lip syncing is concerned?
Viche is offline  
post #84 of 4218 Old 04-03-2009, 02:19 PM
Member
 
meh :-|'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 109
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by frito View Post

then one of the devices does not support auto voice sync

I'm not sure I'm understanding this.. If lag is caused by processing on the TV, how would auto voice sync even help? Does the TV talk back to the originating device and tell it "hey I'm processing which causes me get out of sync by 50ms, so please delay audio by 50ms."

My BD player is connected direct to the TV btw.
meh :-| is offline  
post #85 of 4218 Old 04-03-2009, 02:23 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
frito's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: east SF bay area, ca
Posts: 3,395
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by meh :-| View Post

I'm not sure I'm understanding this.. If lag is caused by processing on the TV, how would auto voice sync even help? Does the TV talk back to the originating device and tell it "hey I'm processing which causes me get out of sync by 50ms, so please delay audio by 50ms."

My BD player is connected direct to the TV btw.

Idk the specifics of how it works but that is pretty much it yeah

heres a link with more info on HDMI 1.3 lip sync
http://www.abccables.com/info-lip-sync.html

BTW, if your BD is connected to your TV the TV should be adjusting the sound delay already, most TV's do this really only becomes a problem when you use external audio devices beyond your TV's speakers and audio outputs

ie. plugging in optical digital into a Reciver directly, etc.

If you're a gamer or interested in using an LCD TV as a primary monitor take a look at my thread on Input Lag
frito is offline  
post #86 of 4218 Old 04-03-2009, 05:07 PM
Member
 
meh :-|'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 109
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by frito View Post

Idk the specifics of how it works but that is pretty much it yeah

heres a link with more info on HDMI 1.3 lip sync
http://www.abccables.com/info-lip-sync.html

BTW, if your BD is connected to your TV the TV should be adjusting the sound delay already, most TV's do this really only becomes a problem when you use external audio devices beyond your TV's speakers and audio outputs

ie. plugging in optical digital into a Reciver directly, etc.

As far as I can tell, the only devices that incorporate HDMI lip syncing are HDMI 1.3 receivers. I own an XBR6 and if my TV doesnt automatically adjust for audio delay then I highly doubt that most TVs do this either.
meh :-| is offline  
post #87 of 4218 Old 04-03-2009, 06:22 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
frito's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: east SF bay area, ca
Posts: 3,395
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by meh :-| View Post

As far as I can tell, the only devices that incorporate HDMI lip syncing are HDMI 1.3 receivers. I own an XBR6 and if my TV doesnt automatically adjust for audio delay then I highly doubt that most TVs do this either.

I see very slight lip desync on my 32xbr6 but I have my external devices, my PC PS3 and XB360 all connected to my Reciver directly via optical digital

I've never seen desync with the TV's built in tuner and i'm pretty sure it was in sync when i ran audio though the TV as well I suppose i could easily test that though

If you're a gamer or interested in using an LCD TV as a primary monitor take a look at my thread on Input Lag
frito is offline  
post #88 of 4218 Old 04-03-2009, 06:30 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
frito's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: east SF bay area, ca
Posts: 3,395
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Yeah well I just took a quick look at TV going though my digital cable STB non-HD STB, hooked up via composite video the laggiest possible situation on my TV, tested in game mode at 50ms lag, this was not in game mode so its higher than that even,

it is connected like this
analog Audio > TV analog audio out > older Sony Reciver with no sync adjustments whatsoever

Lip Sync is better than if i watch a BD on my PS3!

The TV is definitely correcting for the input lag before it send the analog audio out

I'll have to figure out a way to test HDMI audio later

If you're a gamer or interested in using an LCD TV as a primary monitor take a look at my thread on Input Lag
frito is offline  
post #89 of 4218 Old 04-03-2009, 07:26 PM
Member
 
meh :-|'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 109
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Here's an easy way to test. connect your TV directly to a BD player with an HDMI cable. from the BD player use optical or coax out to a receiver. Play a BD and audio will go to the TV speakers and the reveiver's speakers. If the TV is inserting an audio delay then there should be a slight echo effect.
meh :-| is offline  
post #90 of 4218 Old 04-03-2009, 09:19 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
frito's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: east SF bay area, ca
Posts: 3,395
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
will not work with a ps3 i dont think its one or the other on it not both

If you're a gamer or interested in using an LCD TV as a primary monitor take a look at my thread on Input Lag
frito is offline  
Reply LCD Flat Panel Displays

Tags
Lcd Hdtv , Displays , Plasma Hdtv , Sony Bravia Kdl 55ex500 Series 55 Inch Lcd Tv Black
Gear in this thread

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off