Input lag wars!, post your input lag results of your LCD display here for reference - Page 33 - AVS Forum
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post #961 of 4289 Old 05-03-2010, 11:41 AM
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here's some tests of the Toshiba 40G300U(120hz -2010) which I've returned and the Panasonic TC-L42U12(60hz - 2009) display model that I just bought.

tested against a 22" samsung LCD monitor (right side). clone mode 1280x720

Toshiba 40G300U 60-80ms
http://img227.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=img5749d.jpg

Panasonic TC-L42U12 0-20ms
http://img689.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=img5806e.jpg

the non-native resolution of clone mode seems to affect the toshiba more.
I wanted to buy/test the LG 42LD450 before returning the toshiba but I could'nt find it in stock.
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post #962 of 4289 Old 05-03-2010, 02:06 PM
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Does someone know if the Samsung 32C6510 has bad imput lag?

It's the white model.

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post #963 of 4289 Old 05-04-2010, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xact View Post

Does anyone have any info on LG's LD450 models (32LD450 or 37LD450)?

I'm just wondering how these LG's compare to Panasonic's 32"/37" U22 models... specifically in the areas of lag and real-world viewing angle.

Even though the lag numbers on Panny's U22 models are somewhat higher this year, I've been tempted to go with one anyway since I'd like to stick with an IPS panel in order to avoid a narrow viewing angle.

Would LG also use IPS panels in their LD450 models? Has anyone tested these models for lag yet?

After seeing a 32" LD450 in person, I can say with quite a bit of certainty that LG is not using an IPS panel in this line. The unit I saw had a terrible viewing angle... significantly worse than all of the other sets (Panasonic, Sony, and Samsung) in the same aisle at a local Best Buy.

Since I despise color shift due to narrow view angle, I ended up picking up a Panasonic U22 in order to guarantee an IPS panel. My intention is to use this display as my primary desktop monitor for both gaming and general-purpose use, so I went with a 32" (vs. pushing the PPI threshold even further and going with a 37" model).

So far, I'm pretty happy with the U22's gaming performance. I don't think I'm very sensitive to lag, but I haven't noticed any difference in feel vs. the 22" Dell 2209WA I was using before.

For general-purpose/desktop use, the display is working out fairly well. After some menu tweaking, text rendering is sharp and without unusual artifacts. When in "Cinema" mode, colors appear to be very accurate... except for red. For some reason reds/oranges are rendered with a fiery intensity that seems very out of place in this mode.

I'll be happy with this set if I can solve this problem with oversaturated reds somehow. I'm currently trying to figure out if something in the service menu can bring the reds back in line with the other colors. Any advice would be appreciated.
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post #964 of 4289 Old 05-04-2010, 09:24 PM
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First post, woo...

so... a bit of back story. the first HDTV i bought was a Samsung LN-T3253H, which i still have and use currently. Recently, due to me getting a hauppauge hd pvr and wanting to record game footage from my xbox360, i switched it from hdmi to component. this is when i noticed my tv overscans quite a bit. not enough to effect most gaming, but enough to sure as hell piss me off about it.

due to this, i am now considering just buying a whole new tv, and then selling this samsung off to help recur some of the cost. overall its been an ok tv, but ive not been able to keep it from overscanning.

tl;dr - I want to buy a TV that is 32 inches, and has as little input lag as possible. having read some of the thread, it seems panasonics do a damn good job of this (am i correct in this detail?). It also needs to have VESA mounting holes on the back, as my current tv is mounted, and there is little option for returning to a stand. The TV must also NOT OVERSCAN (i know this is generally not as much of an issue on newer tvs), or have an option to keep it from doing so, especially with component input.

ANY information that can be provided, or anyone can point me to will be greatly appreciated.
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post #965 of 4289 Old 05-05-2010, 06:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nomoney View Post

here's some tests of the Toshiba 40G300U(120hz -2010) which I've returned and the Panasonic TC-L42U12(60hz - 2009) display model that I just bought.

tested against a 22" samsung LCD monitor (right side). clone mode 1280x720

toshiba 60-80ms
http://img227.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=img5749d.jpg

panasonic 0-20ms
http://img689.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=img5806e.jpg

the non-native resolution of clone mode seems to affect the toshiba more.
I wanted to buy/test the LG 42LD450 before returning the toshiba but I could'nt find it in stock.

Interesting results on that panasonic, didn't think it would be that low for whatever reason.

If you google the term Panasonic L42U12 you'll find a couple of popular stores still selling it for a decent price.
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post #966 of 4289 Old 05-06-2010, 05:29 PM
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I'm going nuts over input lag. Looking at a Samsung (LN40B530) at Sears (TV-buying choices are limited in Alaska due to shipping..)

It looks good enough in every aspect except possibly input lag. Anybody know about this? Trying to help a friend buy it for his graduation present. It'd be used primarily for gaming (PC and 360) with some movies. He plays quite a few FPS games so I'm wary. Would it be acceptable with game mode?
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post #967 of 4289 Old 05-06-2010, 06:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malicize View Post

I'm going nuts over input lag. Looking at a Samsung (LN40B530) at Sears (TV-buying choices are limited in Alaska due to shipping..)

It looks good enough in every aspect except possibly input lag. Anybody know about this? Trying to help a friend buy it for his graduation present. It'd be used primarily for gaming (PC and 360) with some movies. He plays quite a few FPS games so I'm wary. Would it be acceptable with game mode?

2009 model samsungs have a bad track record with input lag. If no one has tested it then there's only one safe assumption you can make, and that it has bad input lag as well.

At least 9 out of 10 TV models have mediocre or poor input lag for that matter.

If you're going to take chance then be sure to purchase one from a place that offers question-free refunds, because there's always that chance you'll be asking for one
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post #968 of 4289 Old 05-06-2010, 08:54 PM
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not sure if I did this right. I just hooked my laptop up to my tv through hdmi and took some pictures. I don't have a CRT to hook up to my laptop to get the lag on that.(wouldn't know how you would hook it up to begin with anyways.) So these pictures could be wrong but I'm not quite sure. `

ok retested with aero off and got new results

Panasonic TC-P50C2

pics

30-50ms and the laptop lag is probably around 40-60ms

:::edit::::
Pretty sure the link to the pictures should be working now.
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post #969 of 4289 Old 05-06-2010, 11:33 PM
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Somewhat off topic, is anyone currently using an HDTV as a monitor get weirdness when scrolling down this moddb.com . its background pattern seems to be driving my hdtv nuts creating momentary distortions. I'm beginning to wonder if its a refresh rate issue.
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post #970 of 4289 Old 05-06-2010, 11:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nerv_001 View Post

not sure if I did this right. I just hooked my laptop up to my tv through hdmi and took some pictures. I don't have a CRT to hook up to my laptop to get the lag on that.(wouldn't know how you would hook it up to begin with anyways.) So these pictures could be wrong but I'm not quite sure. `

Panasonic TC-P50C2

pic

50-70ms then add in the time for my laptop would probably be around 60-80

:::edit::::
Pretty sure the link to the pictures should be working now.

You should try disabling Windows Aero on your laptop, turning off "Blur Reduction" in the C2's menus (assuming it has it), and make sure you're not running the measures through a receiver or anything. I ran into a problem on one of my laptops where some combination of Aero, V-sync, and other suspect GPU settings were causing it to produce values 20+ms higher than it should.
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post #971 of 4289 Old 05-07-2010, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orta View Post

You should try disabling Windows Aero on your laptop, turning off "Blur Reduction" in the C2's menus (assuming it has it), and make sure you're not running the measures through a receiver or anything. I ran into a problem on one of my laptops where some combination of Aero, V-sync, and other suspect GPU settings were causing it to produce values 20+ms higher than it should.

ahh yeah thanks for the tip, i disabled that aero and it seemed to cut the input lag down by 10 to 20 ms. I updated my post with new pictures and new input lag time.

My laptop seems to be running a bit smoother too, so thanks again Orta
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post #972 of 4289 Old 05-09-2010, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nerv_001 View Post

ahh yeah thanks for the tip, i disabled that aero and it seemed to cut the input lag down by 10 to 20 ms. I updated my post with new pictures and new input lag time.

My laptop seems to be running a bit smoother too, so thanks again Orta

Be sure to update the Plasma input lag thread while you're at it

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omniartist View Post

Somewhat off topic, is anyone currently using an HDTV as a monitor get weirdness when scrolling down this moddb.com . its background pattern seems to be driving my hdtv nuts creating momentary distortions. I'm beginning to wonder if its a refresh rate issue.

Yes, but just a little bit, almost seems like a minor refresh/vsync issue but i'm not really sure what it is. I'm using the Panny L32S1
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post #973 of 4289 Old 05-11-2010, 05:18 PM
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can someone test 32ex500 (eu version) in game mode?

ht: vpr -> Epson tw2000 , avr -> Denon 1909, sub -> mosscade titan 5.1, bdp: play3 slim My Blu-ray collection;)
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post #974 of 4289 Old 05-12-2010, 09:04 PM - Thread Starter
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wow, lots of stuff going on in here. its been a couple weeks since i visited the site due to being busy IRL.

great to see you back on the forums KVW

to those who have PM'd me for copied of SMTT i will be sending them out to you guys later tonight or tomorrow

If you're a gamer or interested in using an LCD TV as a primary monitor take a look at my thread on Input Lag
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post #975 of 4289 Old 05-13-2010, 04:55 AM
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When will the new models come out to drop the price of the current E700UN sharps? I'm a little put off about spending 700 dollars on a 32" especially when no extensive lag test was done from what I've gathered, but is that the norm right now?

I've seen people (the OP) say console gamers don't really "care" about lag. I think you mean non FPS/Fighting game players. FG players are preeeeeeeetty sensitive to the lag and can tell usually if there is even 2 frames of lag, and depending on what character/game you play, 1 frame. There are 1 frame links in SF4 and just-frame(1f) moves in tekken. Just an FYI for those calling it "casual". Not a blanket statement you want to throw around especially on shoryuken.com which ironically enough linked me to this very thread.
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post #976 of 4289 Old 05-13-2010, 08:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lainhk View Post

When will the new models come out to drop the price of the current E700UN sharps? I'm a little put off about spending 700 dollars on a 32" especially when no extensive lag test was done from what I've gathered, but is that the norm right now?

I've seen people (the OP) say console gamers don't really "care" about lag. I think you mean non FPS/Fighting game players. FG players are preeeeeeeetty sensitive to the lag and can tell usually if there is even 2 frames of lag, and depending on what character/game you play, 1 frame. There are 1 frame links in SF4 and just-frame(1f) moves in tekken. Just an FYI for those calling it "casual". Not a blanket statement you want to throw around especially on shoryuken.com which ironically enough linked me to this very thread.

i've said that many console gamers don't care as much about input lag as PC gamers.

people like yourself and others on shoryuken.com that play SF type games are definitely a big exception because display lag is quite detrimental to your timing of moves and combo's in those games and this is well known

Rock band type games have corrected for the problem via calibrations so its not a deal breaker to most people who play those games and FPS games are playable on a laggy TV and when played online chances are your playing against other people with laggy TV's as well much of the time so its not a huge deal but it can still effect your game play its just a matter of whether you care or not

If you're a gamer or interested in using an LCD TV as a primary monitor take a look at my thread on Input Lag
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post #977 of 4289 Old 05-13-2010, 11:11 AM
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Models I'd love to see tested:

Toshiba xxG300U
Toshiba xxXV648U
Toshiba xxUX600U
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post #978 of 4289 Old 05-13-2010, 02:27 PM
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Are there any 32 inch Panasonic or Sharp LCDs with low lag time, that are WIDELY available (meaning new, 2010 models), and cost under $600? I really don't want to spend $750 for a Panasonic L32S1 from some dubious online dealer that has a 25% restocking fee....
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post #979 of 4289 Old 05-13-2010, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BOSTONDAVE View Post

Are there any 32 inch Panasonic or Sharp LCDs with low lag time, that are WIDELY available (meaning new, 2010 models), and cost under $600? I really don't want to spend $750 for a Panasonic L32S1 from some dubious online dealer that has a 25% restocking fee....


This is the boat I am in right now. What's worse is that 2009 models are all gone now also but they jacked those prices up. They also erroneously say the TVs are in stock on a lot of sites when they aren't because a lot of them pull data from the same place. Found this out after calling like the fourth store online that said "in stock" for the Panasonic 32x1 or whatever..

Someone pleeeease help me and this other dude out
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post #980 of 4289 Old 05-13-2010, 07:20 PM - Thread Starter
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based on initial tests of a few lower panasonic models you can expect around 2 frames of lag on most of their LCD's now (around 30ms)

this is still better than pretty much everything out there today

Sharp's are a pretty safe bet as well because while they usually do have bad input lag out of game mode, i've yet to see a recently made Sharp TV have higher than 2 frames of lag in game mode.

If you're a gamer or interested in using an LCD TV as a primary monitor take a look at my thread on Input Lag
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post #981 of 4289 Old 05-14-2010, 02:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frito View Post

based on initial tests of a few lower panasonic models you can expect around 2 frames of lag on most of their LCD's now (around 30ms)

this is still better than pretty much everything out there today

Sharp's are a pretty safe bet as well because while they usually do have bad input lag out of game mode, i've yet to see a recently made Sharp TV have higher than 2 frames of lag in game mode.

Any with IPS-Alpha like results of like 1 to 1.5? That are in stock somewhere, ehhhh

this is a bummer
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post #982 of 4289 Old 05-14-2010, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by sjetski71 View Post

Interesting results on that panasonic, didn't think it would be that low for whatever reason.

If you google the term Panasonic L42U12 you'll find a couple of popular stores still selling it for a decent price.

Yea, there isn't even any game mode setting on the tv. The toshiba had cool features but the input lag and random flicker every few mins made me return it.
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post #983 of 4289 Old 05-14-2010, 06:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nomoney View Post

Yea, there isn't even any game mode setting on the tv. The toshiba had cool features but the input lag and random flicker every few mins made me return it.

Panasonic's game modes have never been shown to reduce input lag on any model tested thus far so i doubt it will do anything on yours.

their game modes have traditionally been just another picture mode like standard or cinema

If you're a gamer or interested in using an LCD TV as a primary monitor take a look at my thread on Input Lag
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post #984 of 4289 Old 05-16-2010, 12:22 AM
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Great, so still no definitive choice for something <2 frames of lag.
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post #985 of 4289 Old 05-16-2010, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frito View Post

Panasonic's game modes have never been shown to reduce input lag on any model tested thus far so i doubt it will do anything on yours.

their game modes have traditionally been just another picture mode like standard or cinema

Wrong, it does reduce input lag in 480i. Though already low it lower by 15ms off the 30ms on the LZ800.

For the Plasma G15 it reduce 60 to 45ms in 480i.
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post #986 of 4289 Old 05-16-2010, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frito View Post

i've said that many console gamers don't care as much about input lag as PC gamers.

people like yourself and others on shoryuken.com that play SF type games are definitely a big exception because display lag is quite detrimental to your timing of moves and combo's in those games and this is well known

Rock band type games have corrected for the problem via calibrations so its not a deal breaker to most people who play those games and FPS games are playable on a laggy TV and when played online chances are your playing against other people with laggy TV's as well much of the time so its not a huge deal but it can still effect your game play its just a matter of whether you care or not

i play seriously only with pc linked to its monitor. With ps3 i play with friends (fifa10) or lbp, do you think i shouldn't care about input lag for the tv i want to buy? (the ps3 will sometimes link to these tv, 32ex500)

ht: vpr -> Epson tw2000 , avr -> Denon 1909, sub -> mosscade titan 5.1, bdp: play3 slim My Blu-ray collection;)
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post #987 of 4289 Old 05-16-2010, 11:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Mr Deap View Post

Wrong, it does reduce input lag in 480i. Though already low it lower by 15ms off the 30ms on the LZ800.

For the Plasma G15 it reduce 60 to 45ms in 480i.

right on, i never personally cared about the lag on SD inputs so i've never tested it. with HD resolutions inputted to either my 37S1 or 50X1 plasma i see no change in input lag but then again its so low it would be hard to improve upon it anyways

Quote:
Originally Posted by lainhk View Post

Great, so still no definitive choice for something <2 frames of lag.

hard to get definitive choices without help from owners of the newest models willing to test them for us to find out.

best thing to do in your case is if you find a model you really like find an owner on these forums that has one and see if you can talk them into testing their TV for you and the rest of us on the net.

it can take some work but if you find someone willing to do it and talk then through how to do it (my thread here is a good place to start) you can get owners that otherwise would not care much about the input lag of their TV to test it for us. trust me the average person who buys a TV does not care about input lag much as evidenced by the lack of this being a standard test by reviewers and it should be like it is with PC monitor Review's. the manufactures will never advertise it because it will "confuse" the average consumer (pixel response vs input response etc) and many like sony and samsung will loose sales because potential buyers that are gamers would see right off the bat that their TV's have 45-60+ ms of input lag and say i'll pass...

If you're a gamer or interested in using an LCD TV as a primary monitor take a look at my thread on Input Lag
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post #988 of 4289 Old 05-16-2010, 11:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghiltanas View Post

i play seriously only with pc linked to its monitor. With ps3 i play with friends (fifa10) or lbp, do you think i shouldn't care about input lag for the tv i want to buy? (the ps3 will sometimes link to these tv, 32ex500)

the only console games that input lag is really imperative on are guitar hero games without the calibration. street fighter type fighting games and to some end users FPS games because they play them a lot and online so the lag hurts their performance in game.

with most other console games most people can adapt and get used to the input lag of a TV provided its not extremely high and in game modes in the worst TV's like Sony's can get under 4 frames of lag making most games completely playable

If you're a gamer or interested in using an LCD TV as a primary monitor take a look at my thread on Input Lag
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post #989 of 4289 Old 05-16-2010, 07:15 PM
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the only console games that input lag is really imperative on are guitar hero games without the calibration. street fighter type fighting games and to some end users FPS games


You shouldn't put a period there!

Anyways, what would you suggest for me and the guy above me, say sub 600 dollar range. Maybe even tell us the amount of frames that the TV lags by! please...

Waht kills me is that I didn't order the panasonic viera tc32lx1 or whatever because I thought I had plenty of time. Then all of a sudden amazon was out of stock. Their price was 389.99. Now its 580.00++.... Looking for a TV with similar performance and price.
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post #990 of 4289 Old 05-16-2010, 07:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lainhk View Post

You shouldn't put a period there!

Anyways, what would you suggest for me and the guy above me, say sub 600 dollar range. Maybe even tell us the amount of frames that the TV lags by! please...

Waht kills me is that I didn't order the panasonic viera tc32lx1 or whatever because I thought I had plenty of time. Then all of a sudden amazon was out of stock. Their price was 389.99. Now its 580.00++.... Looking for a TV with similar performance and price.

yeah big mistake there not getting it when you had the chance really.

its hard to say, I'm not all that familiar with this years model TV's yet so i'm not going to throw out model numbers but i will simply reiterate what i have already said before and that is to shop by brand based on their track record for low lag

look for a Sharp or Panasonic 32" in your price range, they are the best bet hands down for low lag.

what is known about the new models is that the U series Panasonic's are using LG IPS panels to cut costs rather than the IPS-Alpha's used in the X1/S1/G1 of last year. the Alphas were faster but they are very expensive to make hence why Panasonic dropped them from their main models this year to compete better (my 37S1 retailed for 899 msrp!!, i got lucky and bought it on clearance from sears for 625 out the door but that was the only time any of them were cheap) the new U series models are lagging behind the older S1 etc models by about 10ms but still are very fast at roughly 30ms so they are a good TV IMO for gamers still.

last years Sharp models were all excellent in game mode with 1 frame of lag the E67U(N) E77U(N) and E700UN all had the same low lag in game mode, their current model's should perform similarly as Sharp much like Panasonic has always produced low input lag TV's in game mode consistently for the past 2-3+ years across all models.

the "Shaky" brands as i like to term them are LG, Toshiba and Vizio. they have models that can have low lag but they also have models with high lag or other problems that Sharp's and Panasonic's generally do not have for the most part.

Sony and Samsung should be avoided at all costs. some of the new Sony's have been tested already and have extremely high input lag and Samsung traditionally have also had very high lag. there is some reports of special modes/settings allowing some of the 09' and 10' model samsungs have low lag but this also appears to be dependent on that model having the CMO made LCD panel that also has its own picture quality draw backs to go with it so really its a mess you just do not want to get yourself into if you care this much about input lag and gaming.

If you're a gamer or interested in using an LCD TV as a primary monitor take a look at my thread on Input Lag
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