Input lag wars!, post your input lag results of your LCD display here for reference - Page 34 - AVS Forum
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post #991 of 4241 Old 05-16-2010, 07:25 PM
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Lol... thanks for the long post. This just ensures that I will spend endless hours upon hours upon hours searching for the right TV. In the meantime I use my mom's 20" POS I don't even know the brand, because it will simply fit in my checked baggage. Giving her my 40" Sony Bravia. If you can't tell me what I should get CURRENTLY... is there a timeframe that's optimal for me to buy? As in when the new models come out and older ones are immediately marked down etc??? Dying here man. I move on the 19th and I want a decent TV there at least within the week or month.
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post #992 of 4241 Old 05-16-2010, 08:00 PM
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Panny G20 and G10 plasmas both measure 16-32ms
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post #993 of 4241 Old 05-16-2010, 09:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frito View Post

look for a Sharp or Panasonic 32" in your price range, they are the best bet hands down for low lag.

what is known about the new models is that the U series Panasonic's are using LG IPS panels to cut costs rather than the IPS-Alpha's used in the X1/S1/G1 of last year. the Alphas were faster but they are very expensive to make hence why Panasonic dropped them from their main models this year to compete better (my 37S1 retailed for 899 msrp!!, i got lucky and bought it on clearance from sears for 625 out the door but that was the only time any of them were cheap) the new U series models are lagging behind the older S1 etc models by about 10ms but still are very fast at roughly 30ms so they are a good TV IMO for gamers still.

Actually, there is a whole thread discussing this year's U models use of IPS-Alpha panels. It appears that the 32" and 37" U22's are indeed using Alpha panels.

Panasonic 2010 LCD lineup U22 and C22 - IPS alpha?
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post #994 of 4241 Old 05-16-2010, 10:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lainhk View Post

Lol... thanks for the long post. This just ensures that I will spend endless hours upon hours upon hours searching for the right TV. In the meantime I use my mom's 20" POS I don't even know the brand, because it will simply fit in my checked baggage. Giving her my 40" Sony Bravia. If you can't tell me what I should get CURRENTLY... is there a timeframe that's optimal for me to buy? As in when the new models come out and older ones are immediately marked down etc??? Dying here man. I move on the 19th and I want a decent TV there at least within the week or month.

TV model closeouts start around january-march of every year, its always the best time to buy TV's because you get them near cost even at local retail stores.

case in point is i've purchaced all of my TV's at this time in the past few years from best buy and Sears at the same prices they were going for online or slightly less and even once you figured in shipping vs tax they were still cheaper at the local major stores.


Quote:
Originally Posted by shaddix View Post

Panny G20 and G10 plasmas both measure 16-32ms

yes, we know the link to the plasma input lag thread is in the main post. panasonic plasmas perform just as good as their LCD's do while LG and Samsung plasma's are as bad as many other LCD's

Quote:
Originally Posted by xact View Post

Actually, there is a whole thread discussing this year's U models use of IPS-Alpha panels. It appears that the 32" and 37" U22's are indeed using Alpha panels.

Panasonic 2010 LCD lineup U22 and C22 - IPS alpha?

really, this is news to me i will look into this thanks.

If you're a gamer or interested in using an LCD TV as a primary monitor take a look at my thread on Input Lag
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post #995 of 4241 Old 05-16-2010, 11:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xact View Post

Actually, there is a whole thread discussing this year's U models use of IPS-Alpha panels. It appears that the 32" and 37" U22's are indeed using Alpha panels.

Panasonic 2010 LCD lineup U22 and C22 - IPS alpha?

ok viewed your photo of the pixels on your U22, its too small and blurry to really make out the LCD matrix and even if it does not have the horizontal V as S-IPS panel have it does not mean that its an IPS-Alpha panel because simply put the matrix is changeable and only clear shots can fully identify what the panel looks like

this is the best compilation i've seen of good macro shots of various LCD panels on the net

http://www.avforums.com/forums/lcd-l...ls-placed.html

this is IPS-Alpha



and here are many that will appear the same at the distance and resolution/clarity you took that shot at

Sharp X-Gen (not even an IPS panel, its ASV a derivative of VA tech)



Sony/Samsung S panel's 2010 model S-PVA panels



what you need to keep in mind with this sort of thing is that what you are seeing is the red, green, and blue colored lenses of the display and while this is unique to every type, brand and version of every panel it does not tell you what one it is unless you get a good enough photo of it to actually see the detail in the lenses of each pixel like you see in the photo's above.

if you would like to prove me wrong about the new Panasonic models please do i would love to hear they are as good as last years model's

you can do so by testing your TV for input lag according to the instructions i've put together in the main post of this thread and it would be best to use SMTT to do the test so if you would like a copy of the program PM me you E-mail address and what version of windows you are running and i will gladly send you a copy of it

If you're a gamer or interested in using an LCD TV as a primary monitor take a look at my thread on Input Lag
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post #996 of 4241 Old 05-17-2010, 05:39 AM
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post #997 of 4241 Old 05-17-2010, 05:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lainhk View Post

You shouldn't put a period there!

Anyways, what would you suggest for me and the guy above me, say sub 600 dollar range. Maybe even tell us the amount of frames that the TV lags by! please...

Waht kills me is that I didn't order the panasonic viera tc32lx1 or whatever because I thought I had plenty of time. Then all of a sudden amazon was out of stock. Their price was 389.99. Now its 580.00++.... Looking for a TV with similar performance and price.

at the end i ordered sony 32ex500 (eu version). I think it's a good tv, and also with console it should go well.Here say 40ms of input lag for 32kdlex403 eu version:
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/sony-...0100418346.htm
ex500 should be similar

ht: vpr -> Epson tw2000 , avr -> Denon 1909, sub -> mosscade titan 5.1, bdp: play3 slim My Blu-ray collection;)
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post #998 of 4241 Old 05-17-2010, 06:17 AM
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Does someone know if Panasonic TX-L32V10E is the european name for the Panasonic TC-L32S1?

Thanks.
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post #999 of 4241 Old 05-17-2010, 06:58 AM
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I don't know. BUT! I have an L32S1 in the fedex truck on the way to me right now!!!!!! Should be here tomorrow ^______^
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post #1000 of 4241 Old 05-17-2010, 07:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Principe Nero View Post

Does someone know if Panasonic TX-L32V10E is the european name for the Panasonic TC-L32S1?

Thanks.

the 32V10 is a European only model, its higher in last years line up than the S1 or G1 which are S10 and G10 in Europe. it should have an IPS-Alpha panel in it

If you're a gamer or interested in using an LCD TV as a primary monitor take a look at my thread on Input Lag
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post #1001 of 4241 Old 05-17-2010, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frito View Post

the 32V10 is a European only model, its higher in last years line up than the S1 or G1 which are S10 and G10 in Europe. it should have an IPS-Alpha panel in it

Is it good in imput lag as the S1?
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post #1002 of 4241 Old 05-17-2010, 12:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Principe Nero View Post

Is it good in imput lag as the S1?

it should be, try checking for test results over on avforums.com i'm pretty sure someone over there has tested it and it was just as fast as the US S1 models

If you're a gamer or interested in using an LCD TV as a primary monitor take a look at my thread on Input Lag
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post #1003 of 4241 Old 05-17-2010, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frito View Post

it should be, try checking for test results over on avforums.com i'm pretty sure someone over there has tested it and it was just as fast as the US S1 models

Ok.

Thank you.
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post #1004 of 4241 Old 05-17-2010, 02:23 PM
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Congratulations to frito for post #1000 in this thread!

It has now reached epic proportions.

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post #1005 of 4241 Old 05-17-2010, 07:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frito View Post

this is IPS-Alpha


This is the best I can get with the gear I currently have available to me:

TC-L32U22


I installed the copy of SMTT you sent me and currently have my desktop cobbled with an ancient CRT monitor. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to get clone mode working at 1080p so haven't bothered doing any lag tests yet. But I'll see what I can come up with.

Edit: I ended up centering my CRT resolution on the U22 to get a workable cloned desktop. The U22 was receiving a 1080p signal from the graphics card (see screenshot) with the CRT's desktop centered... so I think (?) I avoided scaling lag both in the card and in the LCD.

Anyway, it looks like I'm getting about 2.5 frame's worth of lag as other 32"/37" U22 users have experienced:

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post #1006 of 4241 Old 05-17-2010, 08:03 PM
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very interested.... o_o
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post #1007 of 4241 Old 05-18-2010, 12:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wondras View Post

Congratulations to frito for post #1000 in this thread!

It has now reached epic proportions.


ahaha thanks wondras, i had not realized i snagged post 1000 until you pointed it out

Quote:
Originally Posted by xact View Post

This is the best I can get with the gear I currently have available to me:

TC-L32U22


I installed the copy of SMTT you sent me and currently have my desktop cobbled with an ancient CRT monitor. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to get clone mode working at 1080p so haven't bothered doing any lag tests yet. But I'll see what I can come up with.

Edit: I ended up centering my CRT resolution on the U22 to get a workable cloned desktop. The U22 was receiving a 1080p signal from the graphics card (see screenshot) with the CRT's desktop centered... so I think (?) I avoided scaling lag both in the card and in the LCD.

Anyway, it looks like I'm getting about 2.5 frame's worth of lag as other 32"/37" U22 users have experienced:


Thanks for the follow up and testing with SMTT, its definately an IPS Alpha panel in your TV your new macro shot clearly shows this and your SMTT result in that photo you posted reports 37ms lag, in line with what others have shown with their U22 models.

clearly Panasonic has either changed something on the timing controller of the alpha panels or has added some image pre processing onto their newest LCD's the result is the same panels are now nearly twice as laggy as before but still in what i would consider the good range for gamers and better than the majority of brands available today.

all this being said if Sharps current models in game mode perform as good as 2009 model's did they will be the gaming TV's to get this year for low lag. hopefully someone who buys one will test it for us and in the mean time i will only ask if your willing to test out a few things on your U22 if you have not already

#1 swap video output ports on your video card to check for delays built in by the video card

#2 run the test again in game mode if it was not in game mode already provided the TV even has one

If you're a gamer or interested in using an LCD TV as a primary monitor take a look at my thread on Input Lag
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post #1008 of 4241 Old 05-18-2010, 12:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaddix View Post

I don't know. BUT! I have an L32S1 in the fedex truck on the way to me right now!!!!!! Should be here tomorrow ^______^

If I might be so untoward, would you be willing to post the price of said TV, along with the shipping cost, return policy, and source that you got it from? Thanks, Dave!!
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post #1009 of 4241 Old 05-18-2010, 04:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xact View Post

Anyway, it looks like I'm getting about 2.5 frame's worth of lag as other 32"/37" U22 users have experienced:

Great info, and sorry for doubting your findings.

xact, would you be able to post your Panasonic U22 menu settings when you get a chance?

Reason i ask is because i know the different menu settings affect performance on this TV since a forum-friend of mine owns one, but his results are about 1/2 frame higher than yours. Not to mention that 37ms is just low enough where we can recommend the TV to casual gamers...as long as they're using the right menu settings of course. The prices on the U22 series are extremely competitive, including the 37" size (google + bing shopping)

Many thanks in advance, either way.
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post #1010 of 4241 Old 05-18-2010, 10:36 AM
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Is there still no definitive information about the new Panasonic D2/D24 models regarding their panel type? There was a comment in another thread (I forget which exact one) saying that it looked like it had an S-IPS panel. That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, given that those are Panny's current highest end LCDs. Hope someone has some hard info to share regarding them, as I've been looking pretty hard at getting one of those models.
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post #1011 of 4241 Old 05-18-2010, 12:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanfear777 View Post

Is there still no definitive information about the new Panasonic D2/D24 models regarding their panel type? There was a comment in another thread (I forget which exact one) saying that it looked like it had an S-IPS panel. That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, given that those are Panny's current highest end LCDs. Hope someone has some hard info to share regarding them, as I've been looking pretty hard at getting one of those models.

not sure it would matter because as xact has shown with the photo above his U22 appears to have an IPS-Alpha panel but has higher lag than any other previously made Panasonic with an IPS-Alpha so its sort of safe to assume Panasonic changed something in them, probably adding more RTC to reduce blur like LG has done with their Displays leading them to have more input lag than before.

If you're a gamer or interested in using an LCD TV as a primary monitor take a look at my thread on Input Lag
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post #1012 of 4241 Old 05-18-2010, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frito View Post

not sure it would matter because as xact has shown with the photo above his U22 appears to have an IPS-Alpha panel but has higher lag than any other previously made Panasonic with an IPS-Alpha so its sort of safe to assume Panasonic changed something in them, probably adding more RTC to reduce blur like LG has done with their Displays leading them to have more input lag than before.

So is it worth it in your opinion for me to go pick up an X2 to test out or should I just stick with my S1?

@BOSTONDAVE: eeeeeebaaayyyyy
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post #1013 of 4241 Old 05-18-2010, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by shaddix View Post

So is it worth it in your opinion for me to go pick up an X2 to test out or should I just stick with my S1?

You got the S1? Grab on with both hands and hold tight, my friend!

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post #1014 of 4241 Old 05-18-2010, 06:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaddix View Post

So is it worth it in your opinion for me to go pick up an X2 to test out or should I just stick with my S1?

@BOSTONDAVE: eeeeeebaaayyyyy

stick with the S1, its a tried tested and true performer.

if you got the cash though and you want to buy an X2 to test for the benefit of others out there by all means go for it but make sure your willing to keep it or deal with returning it etc.

If you're a gamer or interested in using an LCD TV as a primary monitor take a look at my thread on Input Lag
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post #1015 of 4241 Old 05-18-2010, 08:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frito View Post

not sure it would matter because as xact has shown with the photo above his U22 appears to have an IPS-Alpha panel but has higher lag than any other previously made Panasonic with an IPS-Alpha so its sort of safe to assume Panasonic changed something in them, probably adding more RTC to reduce blur like LG has done with their Displays leading them to have more input lag than before.

Yes, I see what you mean in terms of lag, but lag isn't my main concern, really. I can understand why some of you consider it to be very important, and more power to you , but I personally can live with lag that is "good enough, and better than most".

My real reason for wanting the D2 over, say, last year's models, is because of the (hopefully) better contrast ratio from the LED backlighting. Now, if it turns out that the D2's don't even have the benefit of the "best" of this year's reduced IPS-Alpha performance, then I'd reconsider what it is I'd like to purchase. Hence why I would like to know if the D2's are IPS-Alpha or S-IPS.
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post #1016 of 4241 Old 05-18-2010, 08:43 PM
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The 32 inch Panasonic U22 seems to be about the only widely available, 32 inch Panasonic or Sharp HDTV available at a reasonable price right now.There are not a lot of reviews about it, except on BestBuy, where it gets a fairly poor rating among some for audio echo problems....

What are the opinions of people HERE who own a Panasonic U22? Any problems with the audio? And is its 60 Hz, able to handle FPS games okay? Are there any other 32 inch HDTVs that I should look at which are widely available when I want to play X-Box 360 FPS games and standard definition DVDs? Dave
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post #1017 of 4241 Old 05-18-2010, 09:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frito View Post

... in the mean time i will only ask if your willing to test out a few things on your U22 if you have not already

#1 swap video output ports on your video card to check for delays built in by the video card

#2 run the test again in game mode if it was not in game mode already provided the TV even has one

1) I ran some more tests this evening after swapping ports (using DVI>VGA and DVI>HDMI adapters) and came up with the same results. For the record, I'm using a Radeon HD 5770 card.

2) The TV doesn't really have a game mode - just some picture preset modes (Vivid, Standard, Cinema, and Custom). It does have assignable input names - including "COMPUTER" and "GAME". I tried these and various other input names, but it didn't seem to change the results.
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post #1018 of 4241 Old 05-18-2010, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjetski71 View Post

Great info, and sorry for doubting your findings.

xact, would you be able to post your Panasonic U22 menu settings when you get a chance?

Reason i ask is because i know the different menu settings affect performance on this TV since a forum-friend of mine owns one, but his results are about 1/2 frame higher than yours. Not to mention that 37ms is just low enough where we can recommend the TV to casual gamers...as long as they're using the right menu settings of course. The prices on the U22 series are extremely competitive, including the 37" size (google + bing shopping)

Many thanks in advance, either way.

I have everything turned "off" except for Video Noise Reduction. With Video NR "off," I found that text had some pretty nasty halos. To me, it seems to be more of a sharpening feature (when "off") than a noise reduction feature as one would assume based on its label. I lag tested with this setting both "off" and "on," but found no difference either way.

Are your friend's lag photos relatively high quality? If not, I found that some of the 'highest' numbers output by the SMTT app can be barely visible (on the LCD TV) with the camera at 1/60 and would be difficult to make out in a poor quality photo.

Anyway, here are the settings I've been using:

Picture Mode = Cinema
Back Light = 50
Contrast = 85
Brightness = 75
Color = 37
Tint = 8
Sharpness = 0

Color Temp = Warm
Color Temp = Off
AI Picture = Off
CATS = Off
Video NR = On

Aspect >
Screen Format = FULL
HD Size = Size 2
Advanced Picture >
MPEG NR = Off
Black Level = Dark
Input Label = COMPUTER
VIERA Link = Off
Energy Saving = Saving
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post #1019 of 4241 Old 05-18-2010, 09:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaddix View Post

So is it worth it in your opinion for me to go pick up an X2 to test out or should I just stick with my S1?

@BOSTONDAVE: eeeeeebaaayyyyy

I'll echo what frito typed. From what I can read here, it looks like your S1 is tops.

BUT, I'd love to see an X2 panel tested. And I'd wager that I'm not the only one. But, that depends if you've got the spare cash and time on hand.
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post #1020 of 4241 Old 05-18-2010, 09:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BOSTONDAVE View Post

The 32 inch Panasonic U22 seems to be about the only widely available, 32 inch Panasonic or Sharp HDTV available at a reasonable price right now.There are not a lot of reviews about it, except on BestBuy, where it gets a fairly poor rating among some for audio echo problems....

What are the opinions of people HERE who own a Panasonic U22? Any problems with the audio? And is its 60 Hz, able to handle FPS games okay? Are there any other 32 inch HDTVs that I should look at which are widely available when I want to play X-Box 360 FPS games and standard definition DVDs? Dave

I have a 32" U22 and am pretty happy with it (see the previous posts on this page and earlier in this thread). Last year's models were undoubtedly better for gaming as they apparently had virtually no lag, but the U22's still lag test better than most sets, so.. to quote frito:
Quote:
Originally Posted by frito View Post

clearly Panasonic has either changed something on the timing controller of the alpha panels or has added some image pre processing onto their newest LCD's the result is the same panels are now nearly twice as laggy as before but still in what i would consider the good range for gamers and better than the majority of brands available today.

I don't really use the audio on mine, so can't comment on that.
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Reply LCD Flat Panel Displays

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Lcd Hdtv , Displays , Plasma Hdtv , Sony Bravia Kdl 55ex500 Series 55 Inch Lcd Tv Black
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