Input lag wars!, post your input lag results of your LCD display here for reference - Page 73 - AVS Forum
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post #2161 of 4210 Old 10-21-2010, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by thepoohcontinuum View Post

But I don't recall seeing actual measurements, so maybe the guy wasn't sensitive to lag. But you have to admit, "not having enough hdmi ports" is a problem that can be fixed, unlike high input lag or lack of 4:4:4 color support. We can't be too greedy now

Four weeks ago, I took it for granted that any TV I picked up would support 4:4:4 just like the LG I picked up today. I now have perspective. But I still feel I have a right to whine that I literally didn't have the option of getting a "higher end" model for that extra HDMI input. No money in the world would have given me three HDMI inputs, low lag, 24p compatibility, and 4:4:4 color support.

In 2011, will people be kicking themselves in the pants for not buying the last TV that at least does the last three?

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Btw, are you still using my picture settings I sent you? If not, what did you change?

I'm using them, right down to the last setting. They didn't make a difference insofar as 4:4:4 support of course, but I am no ISF technician and I don't have their equipment. If those settings are regarded as good for this LG series, who am I to argue? It sure doesn't look bad.
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post #2162 of 4210 Old 10-22-2010, 12:57 AM
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Originally Posted by thepoohcontinuum View Post

I remember reading a thread somewhere on this forum (the game section?) that said the monoprice hdmi switches didn't add any lag.

On the topic of HDMI switch lag, this thread fills me with happiness:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1094588

In a nutshell: These devices are filled with issues. Absolutely filled. HDCP handshaking issues? That's a neat trick if all the device is doing is "passing through" the stream.
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post #2163 of 4210 Old 10-22-2010, 05:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Colmino View Post

In a nutshell: These devices are filled with issues. Absolutely filled. HDCP handshaking issues? That's a neat trick if all the device is doing is "passing through" the stream.

The funny thing is that the HDCP master keys have been released by haxorz so that HDCP is toothless now. It just exists to hassle paying consumers.
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post #2164 of 4210 Old 10-22-2010, 07:00 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Colmino View Post

At the risk of derailing the CRT oxidization discussion, I thought I might chime in about my own TV quest.

Now let's add some more variables to the formula. Quite unnerved by my discoveries, I bowed to the inevitable and bought a 42". With the new problem of seemingly unpredictable 4:4:4 support firmly in mind, I decided to first risk the 42LD520, despite my very own tests on said model. Why? Because I have three devices I intend to hook up via HDMI and I sure as heck don't relish the idea of manually switching HDMI cables whenever it's time to use one or another. The 450 has only two HDMI ports. The 520 has three.

Well, sure enough, the 520 fails 4:4:4. Surprise, surprise. The only thing left to do was take it back and get the 450.

Anyway, it seems the 42LD450 (S-IPS) passes the 4:4:4 test. And the input lag is just fine. Not a CRT but as close as one can really hope for these days. I won't bother measuring it. No further amount of research is going to conjure up a better PC/gaming/movie TV this year. I've done the works. And I have to say it looks beautiful. I am still beside myself that I've arrived at a mostly satisfying result and I can henceforth enjoy the fruit of my effort. Three days ago I was convinced that I would be using this CRT for another year.

So let's think about these results, starting with that 32LD450 anomaly. What happened? Was the non-IPS panel to blame? Are there perhaps different guts (besides panels) in two units of the same model?

And then there's the unavoidable evidence strongly suggesting that my original conjecture may have been correct: If the LG has any sort of 120Hz support, it fails 4:4:4. 60Hz, good. 120Hz, bad..


What about the 42LD550? It's S-IPS , 2.4ms, 120HZ and it seems to pass 4:4:4 on my 42LD550? You do have to make sure the "extra" processing is turned off for the input characteristics you are using, but I find the set better than the "big name" brands out there costing $$$ more.Yes, it cost $799, but check out comparable Sony, Samsung, etc. And I love the matte screen. I don't really need NetCast, but it has a great contrast ratio and 4 HDMI so I won't be needing a switch any time soon.

That's the only caveat I've noticed with LG. You have to buy the right configuration (screen size features, LCD panel type)to get a do all TV. But at least it's one of the few you can find a near perfect LCD.

BTW, for the least input lag and other problems stay away from larger than 47" LCDs, maybe even 42". I''ve gone trough a similar process as you choosing a new LCD TV, only color accuracy was also an issue I looked to resolve and the LG model I have is better than most others I've seen. Gamers like the big screens, but don't realize the panels are not always the best choice.

You are right. Give me a good CCFL LCD TV like certain of the 2010 LG sets and this may be the last best chance to get a TV that isn't plagued with other technical issues. I am even toying with the idea of getting a "spare" for future use.
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post #2165 of 4210 Old 10-22-2010, 07:40 AM
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Colmino and Phase700B, sounds like you guys use the xxLD450 and xxLD550 as computer displays on a frequent basis. Mind telling me if your video cards are ATI or Nvidia?

Another fellow who has the 32LD450 is having a standby wake-up "no-signal" issue. In a nut shell, when he powers on the TV and sends a HDMI signal from his PC, the TV just stays in "no signal" mode. He has to physically disconnect and reconnect the HDMI cable to get video back. Details here (link).

As far as I can tell, the only difference is that he has a Nvidia card, and I have an ATI card. So I'm leaning towards an Nvidia driver issue.
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post #2166 of 4210 Old 10-22-2010, 08:28 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thepoohcontinuum View Post

Colmino and Phase700B, sounds like you guys use the xxLD450 and xxLD550 as computer displays on a frequent basis. Mind telling me if your video cards are ATI or Nvidia?

Another fellow who has the 32LD450 is having a standby wake-up "no-signal" issue. In a nut shell, when he powers on the TV and sends a HDMI signal from his PC, the TV just stays in "no signal" mode. He has to physically disconnect and reconnect the HDMI cable to get video back. Details here (link).

As far as I can tell, the only difference is that he has a Nvidia card, and I have an ATI card. So I'm leaning towards an Nvidia driver issue.

I don't have a monitor and the TV connected at the same time like the example you noted. On the other hand, I don't know about the LG TV working like a regular from a sleep mode either. I'm not sure why you would want to leave TV on like that. In a TV the backlight doesn't usually turn off like ina monitor in sleep mode.

I am using an ATI HD5450, in an HP s5560f. I haven't been using it all that extensively, mostly for online TV, movies, a BD or two. I've mainly been concerned with good color accuracy, proper 24fps, etc.

That said, the xxLD450/550 in certain builds, gives a great bang for the buck. I see in earlier posts concern for "yellow flesh tones". I actually chose the 42LD550 because it had the best yellow I've seen in most LCD TVs. Ever go to Best Buy and see all the "green" looking yellow? IMHO the proper ability to decode yellow on most LCD TVs today is a huge unspoken problem. So far, this LG 42LD550 has the best overall picture quality and accuracy of any TV for it's price point. The ISF menus are unsurpassed in this price range. If only they had 20 point IRE!
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post #2167 of 4210 Old 10-22-2010, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Colmino View Post

At the risk of derailing the CRT oxidization discussion...

...Hang on. You mean we have to talk about input lag? In this thread? ;p

This thread hasn't been exclusive input lag talk for some time, largely due to your own obsession over whether the sets in question fit your own personal off topic needs. Several here have taken up much time and space talking extensively about 4:4:4 color, judder, and overall picture quality.

It wasn't until a few of us tactfully argued a point on another subject that you had issues with it because it was a topic you didn't happen to take interest in. That's thread hogging don't you think? Yeah I know it was more or less a pun the 2nd time you brought it up, but when derailing was mentioned, clearly it wasn't.

Now I don't have a problem wading through topics other than input lag exclusively, but please, stop with the double standards. You're just as guilty of going OT as anyone else. The only difference is the topics you wanted to derail the thread with weren't argued back and forth.

Now if we can respectfully get back to TV discussion without the one sidedness and blaming, I'd like to say a couple things about the LG LD450s. Please note whether you have any skin tone issues when you test it with various input sources at home. Where I noticed the yellowing was mainly on TV broadcasts, and it WAS HD.

Also, the Fry's and Best Buy in my area actually had the LE5300 vs the 5400, so they are stocked in stores depending on region and availability I guess. On the HDMI switch, could you not use the two on the TV for gaming and the ones on the box for other uses like movies where lag isn't an issue? How many people really need 3 or more HDMI inputs just for gaming?
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post #2168 of 4210 Old 10-22-2010, 12:55 PM
 
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Sorry I contributed to off topic thread dialog.

I agree it does cloud the main thread. I just get enthused with any discussion about the LD line of LG tvs.

Cheers!
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post #2169 of 4210 Old 10-22-2010, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Hi Def Fan View Post

? How many people really need 3 or more HDMI inputs just for gaming?

I do. PS3, Xbox and my computer.. not to mention some people have a dvd player/blu-ray player but i just use my ps3 to watch blu-rays/dvds.
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post #2170 of 4210 Old 10-22-2010, 03:35 PM
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I can't find any input results for the LG 37LE5300, anyone? Thank you.
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post #2171 of 4210 Old 10-22-2010, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Phase700B View Post

What about the 42LD550? It's S-IPS , 2.4ms, 120HZ and it seems to pass 4:4:4 on my 42LD550? You do have to make sure the "extra" processing is turned off for the input characteristics you are using, but I find the set better than the "big name" brands out there costing $$$ more.

It seems there are still things to discover about these LGs. Would you be able to post a photo of your 4:4:4 test somewhere? And perhaps some input lag test photos? I'd also love an elaboration on disabling "extra" processing for the input characteristics. I felt I was being thorough when I disabled every last thing I could find (a complete list was handed to me by an LG owner and it concurred with what I was able to find), but if I missed something well-hidden...
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post #2172 of 4210 Old 10-22-2010, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by thepoohcontinuum View Post

Colmino and Phase700B, sounds like you guys use the xxLD450 and xxLD550 as computer displays on a frequent basis. Mind telling me if your video cards are ATI or Nvidia?

ATI 4870 here. The thing has been a marvel, at least insofar as doing what I'd expect it to do and not generating deal-breaking behaviors like the one you describe. The only hiccup I had was the issue I initially had with the DVI-HDMI output not filling the screen. For anyone who discovers this post down the road, the solution is to go to the Catalyst Control Center, enter the configuration of the monitor in question, click the scaling tab, and slide it to zero. It defaults to 15% for some reason. Probably because ATI wisely anticipated that people would rather have a big black border than 1:1 pixel perfection.

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Originally Posted by thepoohcontinuum View Post

As far as I can tell, the only difference is that he has a Nvidia card, and I have an ATI card. So I'm leaning towards an Nvidia driver issue.

Indeed. And the worst thing about such an issue is that it is of such an esoteric nature that it will almost certainly never be corrected. If I were experiencing that problem, I wouldn't hesitate: I'd be buying a different card.
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post #2173 of 4210 Old 10-22-2010, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Hi Def Fan View Post

This thread hasn't been exclusive input lag talk for some time, largely due to your own obsession over whether the sets in question fit your own personal off topic needs.

Now this is why it pays to include a smiley face even when it feels redundant. Otherwise you may catch somebody at the end of a bad day, unprepared to recognize the tongue-in-cheek comment at face value. My apologies. Ditto to the patient folks in this thread who weren't engaged in the conversations.

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Originally Posted by Hi Def Fan View Post

Please note whether you have any skin tone issues when you test it with various input sources at home.

Haven't noticed anything, but then 1) I haven't cracked out the DVE and don't feel a pressing need to, and 2) from the get-go, I have been using ISF settings laid out here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post19280862

I've found it hard to complain about the results.

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Originally Posted by Hi Def Fan View Post

On the HDMI switch, could you not use the two on the TV for gaming and the ones on the box for other uses like movies where lag isn't an issue? How many people really need 3 or more HDMI inputs just for gaming?

As mentioned by another poster, you've got PC, 360 and PS3. Although it is very true that the PS3 sees next to zero gaming use, owing to the fact that the 360 trounces it in that department (thank you, Digital Foundry). In any event, I did order a switch, although not from Monoprice. The one I bought requires no power source, which makes me feel confident about its likelihood of adding input lag. It also switches all by itself.
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post #2174 of 4210 Old 10-22-2010, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by thepoohcontinuum View Post

Another fellow who has the 32LD450 is having a standby wake-up "no-signal" issue. In a nut shell, when he powers on the TV and sends a HDMI signal from his PC, the TV just stays in "no signal" mode. He has to physically disconnect and reconnect the HDMI cable to get video back. Details here (link).

Awesome. Thanks for bringing this issue back to AVS, pooh. I was a'feared of going off topic again so I've been keeping it contained to AV, [H] and the Nvidia forums. But I'm glad to be back here where at least a few are using the LD450 as a PC monitor and can speak from first hand experience.

Newsflash: I'm "dfleach" on AVForum. It's a bunko problem, and it recently veered into a death spiral of nonsense that will likely end with my reinstalling Windows 7.

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Originally Posted by Hi Def Fan View Post

Now if we can respectfully get back to TV discussion without the one sidedness and blaming, I'd like to say a couple things about the LG LD450s. Please note whether you have any skin tone issues when you test it with various input sources at home. Where I noticed the yellowing was mainly on TV broadcasts, and it WAS HD.

Negative on the yellow skin tone, here. I've used DVI-HDMI from PC and VGA from PC. I watched an episode of Fringe on iTunes the other night and I noticed no unnatural skin tones. Nor have I noticed any such nastiness in my daily viewing of online videos, pics, etc. I hope to watch some Blu-ray in the near future. I'll update if I see anything untoward.

... no lag, either! Look at me, being all topical an' stuff.

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Originally Posted by Colmino View Post

ATI 4870 here. The thing has been a marvel, at least insofar as doing what I'd expect it to do and not generating deal-breaking behaviors like the one you describe.

Indeed. And the worst thing about such an issue is that it is of such an esoteric nature that it will almost certainly never be corrected. If I were experiencing that problem, I wouldn't hesitate: I'd be buying a different card.

It's coming to that. Quickly. I've always been a member of team green but my fanboy days are well and truly over. Good timing too, what with the imminent release of the price/performance monster ATI 6-series GPUs.
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post #2175 of 4210 Old 10-23-2010, 07:47 AM
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Sorry for my late response regarding the Sony Bravia KLD-40Z4500.

I received a new HDMI cable to connect it and tested it properly. No matter what I do I get exactly same results with it as with my LCD PC display. No matter which one is set to primary and which to secondary, whether motionflow is on or off.
However I tried testing organoleptically with fast mouse movement because I'm sensitive to lag and while in game mode it's perfectly responsive (feels faster than PC display) I can feel a very slight lag when I turn it off and engage motionflow. But on most pictures I take it's exactly on par with my PC display so it's a bit confusing. Anyone know what might be wrong?

Also if anyone is interested I took a picture of the pixel structure and there's clearly an E-IPS panel inside. It looks like this (I borrowed the picture because it looks exactly that way):

I was very confused because black levels are great on that panel and Sony tend to use S-PVA but I was a bit suspicious because it gets a bit blue-ish while looking off angle and everything is very sharp even during fast pans where Samsung's panels and especially Sharp panels tend to get blurry.
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post #2176 of 4210 Old 10-23-2010, 01:01 PM
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How do you know it's specifically e-IPS? I was kinda surprised e-IPS didn't catch on better in the monitor industry. Only tradeoff vs regular IPS is lower brightness and gamut, but you don't really need wide gamut unless you're doing photo work and such.

On the skin tones of the LD450 series, I guess part of it could have been Fry's reception, but as I said it was not noticeable on other sets and it's very subtle. Unless you have it next to a set that doesn't have such problems, many might not even notice it.
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post #2177 of 4210 Old 10-23-2010, 08:10 PM
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Well i donno if this thread is still about input lag or whatever but i decided to test out my 37" westinghouse that is dying on me because i never considered input lag until i came to this thread. Here are the results. I will be posting pics of tests on a 42LD450 soon after.














CRT monitor is a 19 inch sony trinitron. max resolution i could get was i think 1600x1024 or close to that
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post #2178 of 4210 Old 10-25-2010, 05:12 AM
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...so in the 4:4:4 discussion:
Does the LD 550 support 4:4:4 clor reproduction or does it subsample pc images?
tnx
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post #2179 of 4210 Old 10-25-2010, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colmino View Post

RCA 40LA45RQ
At the end of my rope, I tried out a 60Hz RCA (they had no 120Hz available). No game mode and very few actual menu options. Input lag was a respectable 28.7ms.

After a whole day with displays that refused to show me the video I was sending them, I was more than a little pleased to see:



No subsampling, very little pixel smear, and a decent input lag result. Make no mistake, I was laughing.

At the end of a quite long day, I'm find I'm shaking my head over how ludicrous it is that if you want to find a TV that gives back what you give to it, you have to find something old or cheap. Look at those images. How hard can it possibly be to just serve up a faithful rendition of the input?

I'll admit you got me very curious about this RCA TV. Any other comments on how the quality looked when you were testing and observing it?

These have been on sale for dirt cheap recently, and open box units are floating around in Sears and Kmart.

Thanks for bringing it to our attention.
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post #2180 of 4210 Old 10-29-2010, 07:23 AM
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He does anyone here own a samsung LN55C650? If so how bad is the inut lag, i hear its pretty bad but the TV seems to be quite good.
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post #2181 of 4210 Old 10-29-2010, 07:28 AM
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Hey does anyone know anything about the Toshiba 55UX600U? Amazon is running a special on it today.
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post #2182 of 4210 Old 10-29-2010, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by cruisx View Post

He does anyone here own a samsung LN55C650? If so how bad is the inut lag, i hear its pretty bad but the TV seems to be quite good.

They are good for watching movie/HD/shows etc. But for gaming they are bad. Input lag is very high for c650 series.


Also LG 42LD550 have about 3 frames in input lag. I've tested Modern Warfare and it's laggy . For games like FIfa, NBA 2k11 they show motion blur
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post #2183 of 4210 Old 11-02-2010, 03:27 PM
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Still looking for a respectable 55'' - 60'' LCD : (
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post #2184 of 4210 Old 11-02-2010, 03:34 PM
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Still looking for a respectable 55'' - 60'' LCD : (

Since there is no IPS panel above 47", you're kind of SOL.

You can get one of the newer Sharps which reduce lag to about 1-2 frames in game mode, but the amount of picture quality lost is tremendous. (Severe amount of blurring in game mode.)

At 55" - 60", companies expect you to use your TV as just that... a TV. Not so much a gaming display. (Unless you buy a Plasma or DLP, but then you have to baby sit your TV and take breaks to prevent TIR and burn-in from static HUDs.)

Nothing one can do except hope the upcoming generations of LCD speed up their image processing outside of game mode so that the display looks good as well.

Current HT setup:

Samsung UN65F6300 65" LCD HDTV, Polk CS20 Center, 2x Polk Monitor 75T Fronts, 2x Polk TSI300 Backs, Polk PSW110 Subwoofer.

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post #2185 of 4210 Old 11-02-2010, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by sodaboy581 View Post

Since there is no IPS panel above 47", you're kind of SOL.

You can get one of the newer Sharps which reduce lag to about 1-2 frames in game mode, but the amount of picture quality lost is tremendous. (Severe amount of blurring in game mode.)

At 55" - 60", companies expect you to use your TV as just that... a TV. Not so much a gaming display. (Unless you buy a Plasma or DLP, but then you have to baby sit your TV and take breaks to prevent TIR and burn-in from static HUDs.)

Nothing one can do except hope the upcoming generations of LCD speed up their image processing outside of game mode so that the display looks good as well.

Hmm, well if those are my options, I suppose what are my options at 47"?
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post #2186 of 4210 Old 11-02-2010, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G342 View Post

Hmm, well if those are my options, I suppose what are my options at 47"?

Surprisingly, all LG TVs at 47" are IPS panel. (You won't get an AUO, Samsung, etc. because no other panel manufacturer makes 47" panels and all LG makes are IPS.)

You could get an LD450, LD520, LD650, LE5400, etc. at 47" from them and you should be OK.

I believe only the LG Plasmas this year sucked for input lag, whether you were using game mode or not.

Current HT setup:

Samsung UN65F6300 65" LCD HDTV, Polk CS20 Center, 2x Polk Monitor 75T Fronts, 2x Polk TSI300 Backs, Polk PSW110 Subwoofer.

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post #2187 of 4210 Old 11-02-2010, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by sodaboy581 View Post

I believe only the LG Plasmas this year sucked for input lag, whether you were using game mode or not.

Nah, Samsung plasmas share the honor of having crap input lag as well.

The LG PK550 "only" has 46ms lag over VGA though, but quite a bit higher with hdmi.
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post #2188 of 4210 Old 11-02-2010, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Kenny2010 View Post

They are good for watching movie/HD/shows etc. But for gaming they are bad. Input lag is very high for c650 series.


Also LG 42LD550 have about 3 frames in input lag. I've tested Modern Warfare and it's laggy . For games like FIfa, NBA 2k11 they show motion blur

Are you sure its that bad? I hear game mode fixes it, if u can live with standard PQ option.

I think its more important to have it look good for HD movies/shows as its our familys first HDTV for the living room so looks like im still going to go with the c650 series.
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post #2189 of 4210 Old 11-03-2010, 12:48 AM
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Originally Posted by sodaboy581 View Post

Since there is no IPS panel above 47", you're kind of SOL.

You can get one of the newer Sharps which reduce lag to about 1-2 frames in game mode, but the amount of picture quality lost is tremendous. (Severe amount of blurring in game mode.)

At 55" - 60", companies expect you to use your TV as just that... a TV. Not so much a gaming display. (Unless you buy a Plasma or DLP, but then you have to baby sit your TV and take breaks to prevent TIR and burn-in from static HUDs.)

Nothing one can do except hope the upcoming generations of LCD speed up their image processing outside of game mode so that the display looks good as well.

LG electronics makes a 55" LCD panel. This ought to be an IPS panel. The problems with large TVs are the usual: lack of chroma 4:4:4 support, bad lag etc. The LG 55SL8000/8500 (a 2009 CCFL TV) ought to fill cruisxs need since the 42 inch model got good marks in this review, it had low lag and full chroma support:

http://www.avforums.com/review/LG-42...TV-Review.html
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post #2190 of 4210 Old 11-03-2010, 07:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Lord Humongous View Post

LG electronics makes a 55" LCD panel.

The 55" panels in the LG lines aren't supplied by LG. :/ They're definitely not IPS.

Current HT setup:

Samsung UN65F6300 65" LCD HDTV, Polk CS20 Center, 2x Polk Monitor 75T Fronts, 2x Polk TSI300 Backs, Polk PSW110 Subwoofer.

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