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post #91 of 1146 Old 05-21-2009, 12:46 AM
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Is there any way to turn Real Cinema off without changing the label to PC? For some reason that option is greyed out no matter what I try.
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post #92 of 1146 Old 05-21-2009, 05:10 PM
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I tried what Chuny suggested. Indeed the options opened up BUT I don't see/feel any difference in Transformers BluRay between "PC" mode and BluRay mode with "Just scan". The movie does not seem fluid (again, it's not choppy but everything feels rushed). Is 120hz needed for fluidity? Does 24p do anything at all? WHAT AM I MISSING?

In games I don't know if the added processing increases lag but it still feels VERY laggy and in Unreal Tournament 3 I have a hard time hitting anything (I shoot too late too hit, and I'm good at this game).

KVW, I don't get it. What am I doing wrong? Help!
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post #93 of 1146 Old 05-22-2009, 01:24 PM
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Superastic, I don't think you understand what 24p means. 24p is 24 frames per second. By nature, this looks a bit choppy. But it's been the standard for film for the past 70 years. Some people prefer this because it's how it was intended to look. 120hz processing takes those 24 frames and inserts additional fake frames that are processed by the TV to in essence make it 120 frames per second. This makes the motion look a lot smoother, but it also looks fake to many people, because the majority of the frames you see are just processed filler and not actually from the source material. Also, since the TV has to do all that processing of additional frames, this adds lag to the monitor. Since you are having issues with 24p, I would suggest you set your Blu-ray player to output at 60 frames per second. Some people prefer this over 24p. It's all about personal preference.
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post #94 of 1146 Old 05-22-2009, 04:54 PM
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^^^ Nice explanation
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post #95 of 1146 Old 05-22-2009, 09:32 PM
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Any feedback on the LG30 19" , I have an opportunity to buy it at a warehouse sale (they claim they are just cosmetcially refurbished
It is $219
I also posted on the insignia, as I was looiking at the combo Ns-ldvd19q-10a
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post #96 of 1146 Old 05-23-2009, 02:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Superastic View Post

I tried what Chuny suggested. Indeed the options opened up BUT I don't see/feel any difference in Transformers BluRay between "PC" mode and BluRay mode with "Just scan". The movie does not seem fluid (again, it's not choppy but everything feels rushed). Is 120hz needed for fluidity? Does 24p do anything at all? WHAT AM I MISSING?

In games I don't know if the added processing increases lag but it still feels VERY laggy and in Unreal Tournament 3 I have a hard time hitting anything (I shoot too late too hit, and I'm good at this game).

KVW, I don't get it. What am I doing wrong? Help!

The only thing I can think of as far as the bad lag your feeling is your refresh rate in Windows has dropped to 24hz. I've noticed that in some games, such as Crysis in Dx10 mode, it changes my refresh rate to 24hz which means your max frame rate becomes 24fps if v'sync is on. The game will become VERY laggy when this happens, you can just feel it nagivating through the games GUI and during gameplay. This is also true if you set your windows refresh rate to 24hz as well. Your mouse will feel extreme laggy just making your way through the start menu!

This bug isn't just with these LG tvs, it's with most if not all HDTVs as there are many threads discussing this issue if you google search for it. The way you can tell is by running Fraps while the game is running and seeing what frame rate it stays at with v'sync enabled. The only work around I know of to fix that is to create a custom resolution 1920x1080 @ 60hz, this will remove all the other refresh rates as possbilites for the OS and the game will be forced to run at 60hz. This is only with Nvidia btw, I never found a work around when I rented a ati hd 4890 video card.

Other wise if everything is set right, and it STILL feels way too laggy in games then you are more hyper sensitive to lag than me and the only option for you is CRT or perhaps a plasma screen. Who knows, maybe you have the potential to be a gamer elite!

As far as movies, judder and motion choppiness is always an issue with LCDs. The best thing out for LCDs so far that I've experienced is Samsung's lastest version of AMP (b series HDTVs). However if you think this LG's input lag is bad, you're in for a surprise with a b series samsung. Personally before you return this LG, I'd try a different movie player and make sure your audio/video drivers are up to date. Because as far as most 60hz screens I've had my hands on, I think the lh30 does pretty darn good compared to other 60hz TVs.

Oh and avoid PC mode with TV, it doesn't make it any bit faster as far as input lag. Just helps with text clarity in some situations. I've never even bother to use it after testing it in the beginning.

Your LCD lags. Learn about input lag and be disenchanted by your expensive LCD set.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Input_lag
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post #97 of 1146 Old 05-23-2009, 02:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danman2424 View Post

Unfortunately the LH30 is a little more laggy than I was hoping for. Slightly more laggy than my old LT32HVE Olevia and noticably more laggy than my 507CMX Pioneer.

Perhaps there is a way to get even less input lag? I am using HDMI2/ PC and that seems to be about the best I've been able to achieve so far. Using the VGA port didn't seem to help any.

That sucks Danman. There is many options left for todays LCD HDTV - they appear to be getting laggier and laggier as the years progress. They focus so strongly in making video look better that they simply are making gaming input lag intolerable in my opinion. I don't know of any other LCD currently that's fast than this display or a panny lz800. You might have to stick with a plasma or your old olivia LCD after all.

Your LCD lags. Learn about input lag and be disenchanted by your expensive LCD set.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Input_lag
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post #98 of 1146 Old 05-23-2009, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danman2424 View Post

Is there any way to turn Real Cinema off without changing the label to PC? For some reason that option is greyed out no matter what I try.

I to am wondering how to turn off Real Cinema....any ideas?
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post #99 of 1146 Old 05-23-2009, 04:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KVW View Post

That sucks Danman. There is many options left for todays LCD HDTV - they appear to be getting laggier and laggier as the years progress. They focus so strongly in making video look better that they simply are making gaming input lag intolerable in my opinion. I don't know of any other LCD currently that's fast than this display or a panny lz800. You might have to stick with a plasma or your old olivia LCD after all.

I have since grown used to the lag as it really isn't THAT bad, but in some cases it does throw me off and I was hoping it would be at least as good as the plasma for lag.

Really, if some manufacturer came out with a 16:9 CRT HDTV that was able to do resolutions like 720p and 1080p, I would buy it in an instant. Sometimes I think the technology just wasn't there yet or ready for a change.

For PC I still use a 24 inch widescreen sony trinitron and doubt I will ever allow myself to use anything less in terms of input lag, blurring, color, contrast ratios and black levels, etc.

So many more problems today. Enough to drive a videophile crazy.
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post #100 of 1146 Old 05-23-2009, 05:22 PM
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Thanks for all of your detailed responses. You helped me understand LCD HDTVs a little bit better.

I am using Windows 7 and indeed Crysis in dx10 starts in 24hz but after alt-enter-ing a couple of times it switches to 60hz. So 24hz shouldn't be a problem from there on.

As you can imagine I don't set the windows refresh rate to 24hz. Who, in their right mind, would do that?

Also, I don't usually keep v'sync on. I know it halves frames in games. Tearing on this TV makes me reconsider though, now that I have the resources for it (except for Crysis, of course).

KVW, we have similar spec PCs. Does Crysis (or any game for that matter) make any difference, lag wise, between being run in Windows 7 64bit and win XP64?

I have only 2 other monitors for comparison: my 10 yr old Philips CRT@85hz and a Samsung 940n lcd I have at work. The mouse cursor lag is obvious when I move the mouse cursor over a black surface. On the blue taskbar I can see 2 cursors: a white one followed by a FULLY FORMED black one (the cursor's shadow becomes separate?)

Now, I expected the difference between the lh30 and the crt, but even the 940n seems more responsive (the cursor leaves a short white trail and gaming is very responsive). How do you explain that??

Oh, on the lh30 I also have the tendency to miss windows buttons or menus (overshoot). I move the cursor too much and then have to move it back a little for it to be placed on top of the (button) target. Does this happen to anyone?
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post #101 of 1146 Old 05-23-2009, 09:35 PM
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Do you like your LG30 being used as a tv not a computer monitor. I am looking at a 19" for $219
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post #102 of 1146 Old 05-24-2009, 08:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Superastic View Post

Thanks for all of your detailed responses. You helped me understand LCD HDTVs a little bit better.

I am using Windows 7 and indeed Crysis in dx10 starts in 24hz but after alt-enter-ing a couple of times it switches to 60hz. So 24hz shouldn't be a problem from there on.

As you can imagine I don't set the windows refresh rate to 24hz. Who, in their right mind, would do that?

Also, I don't usually keep v'sync on. I know it halves frames in games. Tearing on this TV makes me reconsider though, now that I have the resources for it (except for Crysis, of course).

KVW, we have similar spec PCs. Does Crysis (or any game for that matter) make any difference, lag wise, between being run in Windows 7 64bit and win XP64?

Input lag wise i see absolutely no difference. And yah I absolutely can't stand how bad LCDs tear without v'sync, it's not even an option for me anymore, I have to have it on. I think the only reason someone might change their desktop to 24hz is so when they do play movies, it'll be 1:1 pull down with film content. I never did see a difference between in movies from when I set my refresh from 60 to 24hz so whateves.

Quote:

I have only 2 other monitors for comparison: my 10 yr old Philips CRT@85hz and a Samsung 940n lcd I have at work. The mouse cursor lag is obvious when I move the mouse cursor over a black surface. On the blue taskbar I can see 2 cursors: a white one followed by a FULLY FORMED black one (the cursor's shadow becomes separate?)

Wait, don't take this the wrong way but are you confusing input lag with LCD motion blur?

Quote:
Now, I expected the difference between the lh30 and the crt, but even the 940n seems more responsive (the cursor leaves a short white trail and gaming is very responsive). How do you explain that??

Oh, on the lh30 I also have the tendency to miss windows buttons or menus (overshoot). I move the cursor too much and then have to move it back a little for it to be placed on top of the (button) target. Does this happen to anyone?

That does indeed sound like lag - simular to how alot of 120hz Sonys and Samsungs are when not in their respective game modes. I dunno if it's an issue with the European version or you have a defective unit or what. Seriously, if you were local to me, I'd gladly let you come over to my house and test it out to compare. I'm stumped, I truely am.

This panel has around 32ms input lag time - the same as an LZ800/85. Why don't you hook up your CRT in clone mode with your LG and do an input lag test. If you're getting something beyond 2 frames of lag, then somethings up with your LG or the European model is not an IPS screen.

Your LCD lags. Learn about input lag and be disenchanted by your expensive LCD set.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Input_lag
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post #103 of 1146 Old 05-25-2009, 01:05 AM
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Thanks again for the quick reply! I guess it's time for a input lag test. I already have put the TV back in the box to send it back (a lot of trouble with the refund too - that's another story). But, hell. I'll try it.
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post #104 of 1146 Old 05-25-2009, 05:56 PM
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need a tv to be used as a pc monitor 1080p 32"

have now tried the last year's 32" LG - the red one. couldn't get a decent picture via hdmi.

now on a pana TCL32S1, that has some strange picture processing problem that i showed on:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1147687

& it doesn't wake up from sleep. i think i'm returning it this week.

i guess i'll try the LG 32LH30 next - how about the power save features on that one - does it go to sleep / wake up following an HDMI input signal's presence (or not)?
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post #105 of 1146 Old 05-25-2009, 08:28 PM
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zachar - I was wondering the same thing about sleep/wake up when the PC loses signal and regains signal from moving the mouse.

I bought the Panny TC-L32S1 today and returned it within 2 hours. I was getting flickering on my PC and there was no way to stop it. The Panny is not meant to be a computer monitor if using the HDMI input.
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post #106 of 1146 Old 05-26-2009, 02:38 PM
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I was at Best Buy looking at the 32LH30 since it is on sale for a fantastic price. It has a very nice picture.

As for sleep mode when the TV loses signal, the TV goes to a screensaver mode with 'No Signal' floating around the screen.

I set my PC to turn off the monitor after 5 minutes of no activity. After 5 minutes, the screen goes black and the monitor goes to sleep. With the LH30, after the 5 minutes, the TV will show 'No signal' so it is still using full power. The only way to get around this is to use the remote and turn the TV on and off.

I'm still considering buying this TV since I had a LH40 for two weeks and really liked it. See the LH40 thread for what happened to my TV.
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post #107 of 1146 Old 05-28-2009, 05:43 AM
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Replacing a Panasonic 32" from a few years ago.

Just picked up the 37LH30 yesterday. I had tried a Sharp Aquos LC37D64U for a couple of days, and while I thought the picture quality was quite good, it didn't display full res with my mac mini via VGA. I'd also read some not so great things about that current model on the forums here, and that was enough for me to be a bit nervous.

Unpacked the LG yesterday and got it all set up. I agree with the CNET review that the black levels aren't as deep as some other sets, but they're more than acceptable to me. In fact, I felt like the Aquos was almost *too* dark in comparison.

The LG works *perfectly* with the mac mini (Core Duo, 1.8 ghz) and a test with a 1080p quicktime trailer looked lovely. It works so well as a monitor, that this is going to make a great computer station for the kids to do school work, research, and flash games (I played some with my 3 year old yesterday, and he loved it).

Blu-Ray and DVD upscaling via PS3 look lovely. Just wish that apple allowed HD rentals via iTunes!

All in all, a good buy, I'd say. The only downside vs. the Aquos is that the viewable angle is a bit shallower, but not a deal breaker for me.
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post #108 of 1146 Old 05-28-2009, 04:20 PM
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Yeah, so after more tests with lh30(lh3000) I have obtained some wierd/interesting results:

With a hdmi->hdmi cable (+dvi adapter, as I don't have a dvi->hdmi cable yet) in clone mode with a Philips 107B CRT I have 2 types of results:

0-10ms when lh3000 (hdmi3-PC input) is primary and 40-60ms when the CRT is primary. WTH?!?! It seems too good to be true...but it's what the photos tell me every time.

In Unreal Tournament 3 I kicked ass, so it certainly feels a LOT better than last time. Hell, I even played Crysis Warhead and it was fine (except the framerate, 1920 resolution took its toll).

I would upload the photos but I'm tired and feel I need to test some more with different ports and settings. Plus I need to find a place to upload them first...

My question is: if I switch Clone mode off and unplug the CRT from my PC (leaving the lh3000 the only display connected), will the performance of the TV (lag wise) dissapear and be left with 40-60ms again?

I ask this because then there would be no synthetic way to check the lag without a second display in clone mode.

Hell, 0-10ms?!?!
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post #109 of 1146 Old 05-28-2009, 04:26 PM
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To be fair, CNET compared the TV to two plasmas and a higher end LCD. I'd like to know how the black levels of the LH30 measure up to other LCD's within the price range.
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post #110 of 1146 Old 05-28-2009, 07:59 PM
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I emailed LG and have not received a response. What panel is in the LH30? I know it is S-IPS, but I want to know the stats. Is it 72% NTSC (aka sRGB)? The Samsung edge-lit LED LCDs are apparently 80% NTSC which would not be good for a PC. I am considering using the 32LH30 for my next build, but I want exact sRGB since most everything is going wide gamut now of days.
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post #111 of 1146 Old 05-29-2009, 02:10 AM
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Any comments or pics regarding text besides KVW?

Most likely gonna be upgrading to this from a Westy 37W3, I might have an opportunity to get this cheap ($799), I put a price alert into a local B&M website, the price didn't drop but apparently they watch the price alerts and offered to match it via email. I'll confirm later today.

Currently using -
Westy LVM-37w3
Sony KDF-E42A10
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post #112 of 1146 Old 05-29-2009, 02:38 AM
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Ok, anyone know how I can get full hd (1920x1080) over VGA cable? The max it lets me set (nvidia control panel) is 1600x1200...and I want to do a proper VGA lag test @ 1920. I move the slider to 1920 click "apply" and nothing really happens although I am prompted to keep/cancel the "new" settings. (Windows 7 64 bit 7100, gtx 285)

Also, I tried a bit of GTA IV (PC) with only the lh3000 connected. It was really hard to aim, especially aiming for the head. Is this normal?

Jun_el, text is nice and crisp. Easy to read. Banding is a little bit annoying though...
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post #113 of 1146 Old 05-29-2009, 03:48 AM
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Any pics of the Banding?

Currently using -
Westy LVM-37w3
Sony KDF-E42A10
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post #114 of 1146 Old 05-29-2009, 05:08 AM
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No pics (yet). It's obvious on some quality desktop wallpapers (a few of the default win 7 ones). It's not serious tho.

Really the only thing I can't get my head around with this HDTV is the variable lag during tests. And trouble aiming in games (sometimes).
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post #115 of 1146 Old 05-29-2009, 07:13 PM
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I bought the 32LH30 tonight at Best Buy because it is on sale for a fantastic price.

The TV PQ looks fantastic. I am using it as a computer monitor via DVI -> HDMI. Graphics card is an ATI x1600. There are no dead pixels.

I can't use Just Scan,. When I do, I get underscan, meaning the picture does not fill the whole screen. I get a black box around the whole picture. Changing to Cinema Zoom fills the whole screen.

I am watching D* on it with an HR-21. The PQ looks great.

I am using the following Picture settings:

Aspect ratio: Cinema Zoom 1
Energy Saving: Off
Picture Mode: Expert 2
Backlight: 60
Contrast: 88
Brightness: 58
H Sharpness: 60
V Sharpness: 60
Color: 50
Tint: 0

--Expert control menu
Dynamic contrast: Off
Noise reduction: Off
Gamma: Medium
Black level: Low
Real Cinema: On [grayed out]
Color Standard: HD [grayed out]
Color Gamut: Wide
Edge Enhancer: Off
xvYCC: Auto [grayed out]
OPC: Off
Expert Pattern: Off[grayed out]
Color Filter: Off

White balance: Medium
Method: 10 point IRE
Pattern: Outer
IRE:
Luminance: 137 (100 Luminance only, 90 through 10 are preset)

Color management system
Red color: 2
Red tint: 0
Green color: -1
Green tint: -7
Blue color: 2
Blue tint: 7
Yellow color: 0
Yellow tint: 1
Cyan color: 0
Cyan tint: 0
Magenta color: 0
Magenta tint: -2
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post #116 of 1146 Old 05-29-2009, 11:40 PM
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hi everyone. my name is ian. i am on the fence about something here. i am looking into an HDTV that is 37 inches to 42 and has 1080p and is great for gaming. i saw the cnet review and had to do more research. i also heard the plasma comments and i noticed with cnet that when they cannot find any major bad things to say they will knock the score a point or 2 for a long known problem. with sharp its banding...even though later models of last falls 85u fixed that allegedly. with LG it is black levels. my question is...has anyone here compared either this set or the LG 37lh40/37lh55/ to the newest sharp 77u? my personal thoughts on the 37lh30 at BB was that i thought the picture and menu were excellent but i felt the flesh tones stunk. i felt that the picture was soft a bit even on some HD content( there was some b+w concert playing) and i could not get the video satisfactory. it was either too dark or too rosey cheeked. i know some people here will tout the great price of this set...and with that in mind it is the reason i am in here. this set offers the picture wizard and huge gamma testing with none of the 120hz stuff. the whole reason i am leaning towards sharp at the moment is because i like their flesh tones and black levels and their 120hz movie mode is actually not 120hz at all but 96hz where they just repeat the image 4x over to help smooth transitions. so instead of guessing like LG does with their trumotion they just shuffle the picture. i am leaning towards sharp still but i am wanting to like LG with its picture wizard but i need some convincing. and price alone will not do it cuz i can get the 77u at 920 shipped for the 40 inch at vanns.
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post #117 of 1146 Old 05-30-2009, 05:23 PM
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One Best Buy user review of the 37LH30 noted that he could see the backlighting system during dark scenes. Anyone else have this problem? Is there a similar problem with the 32LH30?

But it may just be one bad set. The other 8 reviews on the site are all positive.
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post #118 of 1146 Old 05-31-2009, 05:48 AM
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Ok, this is becoming really annoying: BANDING.

Everywhere: desktop, games, movies. Everything looks as if it's, dunno, 16-24-bit color.

Is it from windows 7, 185.85 nvidia drivers or what?

I thought it was from the lh30xx but then I switched back to the crt and it's less apparent on it, but it IS STILL THERE.

A perfect example of banding manifesting itself is on http://www.gametrailers.com/

The grey gradient on the side of the site is looking horrible.

Anyone know how to fix this?
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post #119 of 1146 Old 05-31-2009, 02:25 PM
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I am looking at this tv for a living room just for basic cable use. The price is good at BB and I was wondering how do HD programs look on it.

Also does anyone have the CNET settings? I can never find them. Thanks for any info. Good thread.
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post #120 of 1146 Old 05-31-2009, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Superastic View Post

Ok, this is becoming really annoying: BANDING.

Everywhere: desktop, games, movies. Everything looks as if it's, dunno, 16-24-bit color.

Is it from windows 7, 185.85 nvidia drivers or what?

I thought it was from the lh30xx but then I switched back to the crt and it's less apparent on it, but it IS STILL THERE.

A perfect example of banding manifesting itself is on http://www.gametrailers.com/

The grey gradient on the side of the site is looking horrible.

Anyone know how to fix this?

I'm using the same drivers, clicking that link I see "banding" also on my Westy, however hard to say if it's the drivers or the TV, that's color banding, when you said banding, I thought you meant dark areas underneath the screen.

NOT THE LH30 -
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/102/2...0afc22bb_o.jpg

Something like that, I have some very LIGHT banding similar to that on my Westy.

That grey gradient from that site wouldn't bother me at all, I don't go to that site often enough to know if it's supposed to look like that or not.

Currently using -
Westy LVM-37w3
Sony KDF-E42A10
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