Difference:Judder reduction & Blur reduction?? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 22 Old 04-26-2009, 06:14 PM - Thread Starter
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What is the difference between Judder reduction & Blur reduction? (talking about new sammys 120hz) Does one make video games better and movies on the other? Thanks to all that reply

Also is there a difference in the 120hz mode between say b610 vs b630, b650 etc??
could one be so called "better" or "smoother" in a sense due to the processor..
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post #2 of 22 Old 04-26-2009, 09:12 PM
 
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I'm pretty sure they both mean the same thing. It all has to do with 'motion'.

You probably wouldn't want motion enhancers on when you play video games, since it would add gaming lag. That's why you have 'game mode' that removes any extra processes to reduce lag.

When you use motion enhancers, it depends whether you like it or not. If on, especially on high, you will see movies as if they were filmed by a video camera. In other words, the picture looks smoother, quicker - as if fast forwarded. This is called the 'soap opera' affect. I don't like it, but if you do just leave it on low, medium, or high
Keep in mind, this doesn't necessarily 'remove' all the blur and judder from videos. It may even add some artifacts. Ahhh!
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post #3 of 22 Old 04-26-2009, 09:39 PM
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I heard its different things one set to max on blur function will reduce blur and no soap opera look at all when messing with the judder function that is what makes it look soap opera.

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post #4 of 22 Old 04-26-2009, 09:46 PM
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Judder is the uneven jerky movement seen when a 24fps movie camera pans too fast caused by the 3:2 conversion from 24 to 60 in a set with 60Hz refresh. A 120Hz refresh can (with motion processing off) repeat each movie frame 5 times and remove the 3:2 judder. You still have 24Hz jerkiness but it is an even jerkiness. The difference isn't noticeable or objectionable to some of us.

Motion blur is a completely different effect although it may look similar.

If it isn't 720p or 1080i/p it isn't HD. If it is 720p or 1080i/p it may not be HD content.
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post #5 of 22 Old 04-26-2009, 10:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bk.secret23 View Post

I'm pretty sure they both mean the same thing.

Not on the new Samsungs. On the 2007 and 2008 models there was only "Auto Motion Plus" with the option to set it to off, low, med or high. With the 2009 models there are separate controls for Judder and Blur, with slider controls for each from 0 to 10. There are also presets to choose from with the sliders in different configurations (i.e. judder 10 blur 0). As felonyr301 pointed out, with the proper selection you can eliminate or decrease blur without that nasty soap opera side-effect.

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Originally Posted by bk.secret23 View Post

Keep in mind, this doesn't necessarily 'remove' all the blur and judder from videos. It may even add some artifacts. Ahhh!

Very true. When you start seeing trailing artifacts behind moving objects then you know you've got it set too high.

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post #6 of 22 Old 04-26-2009, 11:02 PM - Thread Starter
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thanks for the info. I guess i was used to last years low. med. hi. 120 hz modes. Game lag never really botherd me much.. (i play games ALOT!!) It just seems the 52a750 we have has better 120hz motion compared to a new 52b610 i bought for budget game room..
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post #7 of 22 Old 04-27-2009, 06:27 AM
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Actually Hitachi TV's can come in two forms:

Option 1: 120Hz with Motion Interpolation for Blur Reduction AND the "Reel120" feature (equivelant to AMP feature on Samsung) for Judder reduction

OR

Option 2: 120Hz with Motion Interpolation for Blur Reduction WITHOUT the other feature.

What that really means, I have no idea. But this is according to their website!
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post #8 of 22 Old 04-30-2009, 05:56 PM
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A question for you seeing as you have a a750 and an b610 how does the picture quality compare? Do you feel the b610 is out performing the a750? if so in what areas? I plan on buying either a b610 or a b750 but the price diff is pretty big so if I can get the b610 to out perform the a750 I will be going with that. My primary uses for it will be regular programming, blueray movie and ps3/wii gaming. Thanks
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post #9 of 22 Old 04-30-2009, 10:10 PM
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Do any 240hz LCDs repeat each frame 10 times?

How much improvement is there with 240 versus 120?
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post #10 of 22 Old 05-01-2009, 08:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arjento View Post

A question for you seeing as you have a a750 and an b610 how does the picture quality compare? Do you feel the b610 is out performing the a750? if so in what areas? I plan on buying either a b610 or a b750 but the price diff is pretty big so if I can get the b610 to out perform the a750 I will be going with that. My primary uses for it will be regular programming, blueray movie and ps3/wii gaming. Thanks

Arjento: I do not recommend the B610 to anyone! Pic is blurry 120 hz Modes are crap. screen tearing, lots of artifacts, Ghosting no way it is better then last years 120 hz I speak on this model alone do not have any other 09' sammys.
Definitely not for you maybe a HD lcd newb who doesnt know any better or only watches w/ 120hz OFF it actually still does not help(stay away all)..Now the A750 has some of its own problems imho. The bezel of the tv emits a halo light around it say when a object is partially off screen (someone walking in background etc) VERY distracting!! Also Owners have reported that the bezel is coming or have fallin off!!! (ours is starting to come un done in some places and Best buy and samsung say Asthetics are not coverd in warranty..call n ask if you wanna. So besides that I would definitely go A750 or even B750 bro.
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post #11 of 22 Old 05-01-2009, 11:38 PM
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Thanks Paul, I'll stay away from the b610. I hope f/s in canada brings in theb650 they already have the b750 but they want alot of dollars for them well you can look at their website and see the price for yourself. I get 20% off their asking price is the best i can find so far cdn. Not including my levies of 45 and taxes (ARG taxes 12 percent). I won't mention the price price cause you cant but you can see the numbers and do the math. I still don't think it's a good deal yet. Thanks again for the advice on the b610 I saw it in the store today and didn't really like it's pq at all. I thought the sony they had going did better and it was priced more reasonably too.
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post #12 of 22 Old 05-02-2009, 05:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arjento View Post

Thanks Paul, I'll stay away from the b610. I hope f/s in canada brings in theb650 they already have the b750 but they want alot of dollars for them well you can look at their website and see the price for yourself. I get 20% off their asking price is the best i can find so far cdn. Not including my levies of 45 and taxes (ARG taxes 12 percent). I won't mention the price price cause you cant but you can see the numbers and do the math. I still don't think it's a good deal yet. Thanks again for the advice on the b610 I saw it in the store today and didn't really like it's pq at all. I thought the sony they had going did better and it was priced more reasonably too.

Looks like FS must have just posted them onto the website in the past 2 days. About $200 higher than I expected them to launch at. But that's typical for Canada when there really is not a lot of competition out there.

Just so you know, I was speaking to a rep at FutureShop and they said most of the time they can sell the items that Best Buy sells up here in Canada. As long as you are serious about buying, they can source the set out of the same distribution center most of the time.
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post #13 of 22 Old 05-02-2009, 05:18 AM
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Can anybody explain to me the manufacturing numbers for these sets? Obviously I know the first part, LNB52750, but what about the ending (for example, U1FXZA)?

Do we know yet if there are particular codes on the end of the numbers that we should try to stay away from (i.e. perhaps the panel is bad or the plant is not good or something like that)?

Futureshop does a good job of posting the full number: LN52B750U1FXZA
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post #14 of 22 Old 05-02-2009, 10:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arjento View Post

Thanks Paul, I'll stay away from the b610. I hope f/s in canada brings in theb650 they already have the b750 but they want alot of dollars for them well you can look at their website and see the price for yourself. I get 20% off their asking price is the best i can find so far cdn. Not including my levies of 45 and taxes (ARG taxes 12 percent). I won't mention the price price cause you cant but you can see the numbers and do the math. I still don't think it's a good deal yet. Thanks again for the advice on the b610 I saw it in the store today and didn't really like it's pq at all. I thought the sony they had going did better and it was priced more reasonably too.

Your Welcome Any time, I assume thats what this site is for to inform others and learn about new tech...
Have not heard anything bad bout sony except fluctuating backlights...(in dark scenes)
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post #15 of 22 Old 07-24-2009, 12:20 PM
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Does anyone know how the 'blur reduction' setting on the new Samsungs (240Hz) works? I've read that it makes a difference when viewing test patterns for motion resolution, but when I'm watching a movie, having it off, or at 10, doesn't seem to matter. I've also read that the only way the TV does 10:10 pulldown is with AMP completely off. Judder reduction, on the other hand, is very easy to spot, depending on the setting.
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post #16 of 22 Old 07-24-2009, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artwood View Post

Do any 240hz LCDs repeat each frame 10 times?

No. Not even close.

240Hz creates 3 interpolated frames between each original 60Hz frame.
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post #17 of 22 Old 07-24-2009, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beeper View Post

No. Not even close.

240Hz creates 3 interpolated frames between each original 60Hz frame.

The quote above makes sense when frame interpolation is on, but when AMP is completely off, it IS repeating frames, right? So to play a 60Hz signal at 240Hz, it plays frame 1-1-1-1, 2-2-2-2, 3-3-3-3...60-60-60-60 all in 1 second.
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post #18 of 22 Old 11-15-2009, 06:57 AM
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Just got my Samsung LN40B750 and I am still confused by the blur/judder reduction settings. I want the sharpest clearest picture possible, and don't mind the soap opera look at all. Any suggestions on how to set blur/judder? Does moving the slider to 10 decrease the blur or the reduction of blur? Same with judder? Which setting makes the picture sharpest during motion?

Sometimes I see a blurring around fast moving objects -- like an aura. Which setting reduces that but leaves the picture sharpest?

Sorry if I seem a bit confused on this, I am brand new to Samsung HDTV Auto Motion Plus 240hz settings.
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post #19 of 22 Old 11-15-2009, 07:31 AM
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And then there is the issue of TVs with frame rates of "true" 240 hz, vs the TVs with "quasi" 240 hz. Quasi 240 are 120 Hz with a scanning back light.

The relatively few LCDs with true 240 Hz turned on show virtually no motion blur. The 120 Hz sets and the quasi 240 Hz sets show less motion blur than 60 Hz sets, but more than true 240 Hz sets.

Lastly, there are some sets that are 120 Hz but exhibit minimal improvement over 60 Hz sets. The only brand that I am aware of that falls into this category are from Sharp.
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post #20 of 22 Old 11-15-2009, 02:36 PM
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the Samsung B750 series are true 240hz.
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post #21 of 22 Old 11-15-2009, 05:20 PM
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It sounds good that the 2009 Samsung models include seperate Anti-Blur and Anti-Judder settings, but why would anyone turn off Anti-Blur? I can understand disliking the soap opera effect of Anti-Judder, but wouldn't you always want blur-free motion?
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post #22 of 22 Old 10-11-2010, 03:18 AM
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Can anybody explain to me the manufacturing numbers for these sets? Obviously I know the first part, LNB52750, but what about the ending (for example, U1FXZA)? Or Judder Reduction?

What is Motion Blur, Judder reduction, Motion Lag and Game Lag?
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