Official Samsung LNxxB650 Calibration/Settings Thread - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 328 Old 02-21-2010, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

Well, my grayscale and gamma settings are in the service menu and my color settings are posted above ("Fine Tuning"). For grayscale/gamma settings you might be better off looking at Sam S's user menu settings, as he has the same 32" B650 as well. (I assume you have the AA01 panel, which I believe all 32" B650 owners have.)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=1925

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=1931

Ignore the "CAL-DAY" part and use Movie pic mode instead when entering the settings. CAL-DAY must be activated in the service menu before you can access it in the user menu.

**BTW, be sure to read the advice at the top of the first linked post. Copying settings doesn't always work and is usually an approximation at best. I have arrived at my own settings via a meter, test patterns, and calibration software.**

Thanks, I will give these a try tomorrow when I get it.

-Tom
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post #272 of 328 Old 02-21-2010, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

This seems to support my theory that all the 32" B650s have the AA01 panel. It doesn't have clouding or flashlighting and offers deep blacks dead center but the blacks get increasingly dark blue as you move off center and lighter as well.

I don't know if it supports your theory or not...I have the 40" B650
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post #273 of 328 Old 02-21-2010, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guitardedboy View Post

I don't know if it supports your theory or not...I have the 40" B650

Oops... I must have been thinking of someone else. However, I have yet to hear of a 32" B650 that isn't an AA01 and I never saw one that had different panel version when shopping for my set.


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post #274 of 328 Old 02-26-2010, 07:23 AM
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Are there special settings vor CN panels? I allways thought, that tne 40'' B650 never can have CN08....
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post #275 of 328 Old 03-03-2010, 07:51 AM
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Hello. I have been calibrating my TV and ran into a small problem. I am following the tutorial "Greyscale for Dummies" that is online and explains how to calibrate your tv using the HCFR program and the i1 sensor. The problem is that it states to set your "Brightness" at the 10 IRE to .0065% of your "Y" value at 100 IRE. This will allow you to get your Gamma to 2.2 at the 10 IRE. I presume that this is a good thing for the darkness of screen images in this range. My issue is that this method will greatly reduce your contrast ratio. If you use the flashing bars in the AVSHD disc to set your brightness/contrast, then the results for the brightness reading is drastically different than with the .0065% method. Is this a problem? I can't adjust out my contrast anymore using AVSHD flashing bars because it is at its' highest reading now without becoming pink. Do I need to be concerned with the contrast ratio if my gamma is set properly at the 10 IRE?

Thanks for any help.
Bob

Bob
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post #276 of 328 Old 03-04-2010, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by perritterd View Post

Hello. I have been calibrating my TV and ran into a small problem. I am following the tutorial "Greyscale for Dummies" that is online and explains how to calibrate your tv using the HCFR program and the i1 sensor. The problem is that it states to set your "Brightness" at the 10 IRE to .0065% of your "Y" value at 100 IRE. This will allow you to get your Gamma to 2.2 at the 10 IRE. I presume that this is a good thing for the darkness of screen images in this range. My issue is that this method will greatly reduce your contrast ratio. If you use the flashing bars in the AVSHD disc to set your brightness/contrast, then the results for the brightness reading is drastically different than with the .0065% method. Is this a problem? I can't adjust out my contrast anymore using AVSHD flashing bars because it is at its' highest reading now without becoming pink. Do I need to be concerned with the contrast ratio if my gamma is set properly at the 10 IRE?

Thanks for any help.
Bob

Simply set it with a black clipping pattern by eye. That other method is based on the assumption you have ruler flat 2.22 gamma. While you can get avg gamma to 2.22 or very close, it's nowhere near ruler flat, especially in the low end.


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post #277 of 328 Old 03-08-2010, 08:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

Simply set it with a black clipping pattern by eye. That other method is based on the assumption you have ruler flat 2.22 gamma. While you can get avg gamma to 2.22 or very close, it's nowhere near ruler flat, especially in the low end.

Thanks for the reply PlasmaPZ80U. So, your suggestion is to simply ignore the .oo65% procedure and use the AVSHD disc flashing bar patterns-am I understanding correctly? I agree with you that there seems no way to get the Gamma even close to the 2.22 ruler flat setting. I've noticed that the "Avg. Gamma" is a "JOKE" and no way even close to the actual Gamma that is displayed in the graph.

Is there a way to get a "FLAT RULER 2.22" Gamma" or something close to it? All my graphs are not even close to a flat ruler gamma.

Thanks a lot for getting back with me Plasma. I've posted this request many times in many forums and no one other than you has even attempted to replay!

Thanks again,
Bob.

Bob
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post #278 of 328 Old 03-10-2010, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by perritterd View Post

Thanks for the reply PlasmaPZ80U. So, your suggestion is to simply ignore the .oo65% procedure and use the AVSHD disc flashing bar patterns-am I understanding correctly? I agree with you that there seems no way to get the Gamma even close to the 2.22 ruler flat setting. I've noticed that the "Avg. Gamma" is a "JOKE" and no way even close to the actual Gamma that is displayed in the graph.

Is there a way to get a "FLAT RULER 2.22" Gamma" or something close to it? All my graphs are not even close to a flat ruler gamma.

Thanks a lot for getting back with me Plasma. I've posted this request many times in many forums and no one other than you has even attempted to replay!

Thanks again,
Bob.

Nope, you need an external video processor or have to create a ICC profile for a HTPC setup (if you're using your PC for Streaming Movies/DVD/Blu-ray/Gaming/etc.). No setting on the TV will flatten gamma, it will just move everything up or down (avg gamma value).


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post #279 of 328 Old 03-12-2010, 11:23 AM
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I got a LN55B650 two weeks ago. I am using Component cables, not HDMI. It was made in January 2010. It has the CN01 panel. I went thru this thread and have tried numerous suggested settings and as some others have found, the following worked best for me with a few exceptions I will note after the quote:

Originally Posted by douglashowitzer:
I've also posted these settings in the owner's thread. The only change I've made is that I now use an Auto Motion setting of 10/10 for video games. I know its blasphemy but I can deal with a little artifacting for the insane frame rate that it provides. I've also been toying with a "Warm 1" Color Temp but I think I still like "Normal". I know "Warm 2" is the standard but it's much too red for me.



Calibrated with the Digital Video Essentials (DVE) Blu-Ray

With an HDMI connection:

Movie (I was wrong........I unfortunately can confirm that there IS auto-dimming in every mode except Movie. I guess the scenes I was comparing with weren't dark enough. In an extremely dark scene, if you decrease the Backlight in Standard, Natural or Dynamic Mode, you will notice that it stops getting darker after you hit 3. In Movie Mode this doesn't happen and is certainly indicative of auto-dimming.)

Backlight: 4 for Night Viewing, 6 for Daytime

Contrast: 95 (This produced the brightest whites without losing the greyscale variation. Engaging "Dynamic Contrast" destroyed the variation of the whites at the upper end of the scale.)

Brightness: 44 (On the large greyscale pattern, this preserved the deepest black the signal could provide while still showing the entirety of the greyscale. An increase to 45 actually made the black appear more grey, and decreasing to 43 kept the same deep level of black as 44 but started crushing the greyscale variation. 44 was absolutely perfect.)

Sharpness: 0 (I keep it at 0 for TV, Blu-ray and DVD, but use 15 for gaming.)

Color: 50 (These Samsung's are great, saturation was perfect at the default setting.)

Tint (G/R) 50/50

Black Tone: Off (I wish everyone could see what happens to the greyscale when this is enabled, it completely crushes the variation but produces absolutely NO increase in black level. They should call this setting "Detail Destroyer".)

Dynamic Contrast: Off (Same here, this setting destroys the white end of the greyscale and results in a HUGE loss of detail in near white situations. Keep this thing OFF!!)

Gamma: 0 (I understand that some people have mentioned that Spanbauer's settings appear "washed out"....That's NOT due to Movie Mode and the lack of Auto-Dimming, it's due to the Gamma setting of 2. With the Gamma at 2, the TV comes out of black WAY to quickly which results in a washed out picture. Put your gamma at 0 and I'm sure your picture will improve.)

Color Space: Custom (This where things get really tricky. After doing the color calibration you will see the biggest difference in your Greens, trees and foliage will no longer appear neon green but instead natural. Using the setting of "Auto" results in a Red Primary that isn't accurate and also less saturated Greens. Using the "Native" setting results in a slightly more accurate Red than "Auto", but a HIGHLY inaccurate Green. For some reason "Custom", without anything changed, produced the most accurate primaries of all 3 settings. The only primary that needs adjustment is Green, Red and Blue were basically perfect. The secondaries (Cyan, Yellow and Magenta) can all be brought in line with the following settings except for a slight deviation in Magenta. However with a little tweaking, all colors were near perfect. In the custom color setting adjust the following colors as follows: Adjust the green setting of "Green" to 54. Adjust the green setting of "Yellow" to 56. Adjust the green setting of "Cyan" to 48. Now cycle through all 3 modes ("Auto", "Native" and "Custom") while viewing something that should appear green and you will immediately notice the difference.)

White Balance: Default (I use a color temp of "Normal" so my whites appear to my eye as they should. I know some people like to use "Warm 2" and then adjust the white balance, but I've always thought those settings appeared WAY too red and I don't like it at all. I stick with Default White Balance and a Color Temp of Normal.)

Flesh Tone: 0
Edge Enhancement: Off
Color Tone: Normal
Size: Screen Fit
Digital NR: Off
HDMI Black Level: Low
Auto Motion Plus 120Hz: 10/5 for TV, Blu-ray and DVD//10/8 for gaming (I love the look of Auto Motion contrary to many posters.) END Of Quote....

My comments:

I am using component cables due to HDMI issues with my FIOS box and the tv, so I altered the settings a little.

Sharpness - 20 (I like the more defined, clearer (to my eyes) look)
Color Space - Auto (I did none of the adjustments in Douglas' post)
Size - 16:9
Edge Enhancement - ON (for a clearer looking pic)
Color Tone-Warm 2
There is no Black Level adjustment with Component cables.

Auto Motion - Custom blur-10, dejudder-2.

I raise or lower the Backlight as necessary for room lighting conditions. But I don't change the other settings. We also have a rope light attached to the back of the tv and it provides a very nice halo effect/room light for night watching.

I see no light bleed from any part of the screen with this C panel. Black all around and very dark.

I'm not especially good at calibrating tvs so the help offered in the thread was most welcome. I decided not to do all the Color Space adjustments suggested and just went with Auto, easier for me.

Thanks to Douglashowitzer for a great post.
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post #280 of 328 Old 03-12-2010, 01:14 PM
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I watched today Transformers. 1st chapter first few seconds there ale many many small stars. I was unable to see them with Movie settings. Switching to Standart I was surprised how many stars there was wtf....

I'll stay witg Standart settings, I have to get used to the extensive blue but I want to see the whole picture. Movie hides small bright details unfortunately...
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post #281 of 328 Old 03-13-2010, 10:13 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djmuzi View Post

I watched today Transformers. 1st chapter first few seconds there ale many many small stars. I was unable to see them with Movie settings. Switching to Standart I was surprised how many stars there was wtf....

I'll stay witg Standart settings, I have to get used to the extensive blue but I want to see the whole picture. Movie hides small bright details unfortunately...

Very true. I've noticed it with STAR TREK, DARK CITY, etc. MOVIE mode certainly provides more accurate color, but it hides far too much detail. I use MOVIE mode for "talking heads" films (comedies, dramas, etc.) and STANDARD for films with a lot of FX and dark scenes (SF, Horror, etc.) Also, I find that STANDARD is a better setting for 3D dvds.
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post #282 of 328 Old 03-13-2010, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Joel Clemons View Post

Very true. I've noticed it with STAR TREK, DARK CITY, etc. MOVIE mode certainly provides more accurate color, but it hides far too much detail. I use MOVIE mode for "talking heads" films (comedies, dramas, etc.) and STANDARD for films with a lot of FX and dark scenes (SF, Horror, etc.) Also, I find that STANDARD is a better setting for 3D dvds.

On Standard Transformers looked really amazing. The only thing I have to get yoused to the blue.

I watched Hellboy II in Movie mode and it didn't kicked me really... I have to watch it again with Standard

But for SD TV Standard is not that good... Skin tones are very bad. I use Movie but with color temperature Warm1 instead of Warm2.

But for Blu-Ray tehre is nothing better then Standard, especially when you want to see all the beautifull bright stars
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post #283 of 328 Old 03-14-2010, 11:59 AM
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I have tried calibration settings suggested here...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=1925

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=1931

All of them suggests move mode warm2 which gives me red picture... Advances RGB settings even increases this effect... I was watching winter sports a lot last weeks and snow is red... I am amateur, not using proff calibration software, but I really can not believe that those are OPTIMAL settings... Really confused..
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post #284 of 328 Old 03-14-2010, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by ivanox1972 View Post

I have tried calibration settings suggested here...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=1925

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=1931

All of them suggests move mode warm2 which gives me red picture... Advances RGB settings even increases this effect... I was watching winter sports a lot last weeks and snow is red... I am amateur, not using proff calibration software, but I really can not believe that those are OPTIMAL settings... Really confused..


Thats why I switched to Warm1 try this with the other Movie setings set to default
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post #285 of 328 Old 03-28-2010, 11:07 PM
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I got my B650 a year ago. I recently found out there was a update that actually came out 6 months ago(1012) was using 1003. I updated and didn't realize my settings would change. So I came in here found my old settings but now im thinking of doing them differently. I liked them before but they weren't anything special.
What should DNR be set to? I have mine off.
What should film mode be set to? I have mine on auto 1(deafult is 2), im not sure if I see a difference or even really understand what it even does.

I have DirecTV HD model HR21/200. I use to be able to select the HDMI black level now I cannot since switching out my DirecTV HD boxes, I was using an older one the HR20 I believe. I saw another poster said the same but someone else said that it didn't matter if it was greyed out because it is auto detecting the best setting but I believe it does matter. Mine is greyed out and set to normal on my HR21 but on my older HR20 it is not greyed out and is set to low. Obviously I need to contact DirecTV but anyone else ever experience this or have heard of it?

My specs:
Samung 40" LCD - LN40B650T1F
Panel/Version - SS03
Firmware - 1012
DirecTV HD HR21
Monster HDMI Cable 1000HD
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post #286 of 328 Old 04-03-2010, 11:20 AM
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Why does my samsung keep going back to default settings every 30 min or so? Its like its in showroom floor mode. I can't find an on off switch in the menu anywhere. I would appreciate your help

Life is Through the Son
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post #287 of 328 Old 04-03-2010, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by MADDOG View Post

Why does my samsung keep going back to default settings every 30 min or so? Its like its in showroom floor mode. I can't find an on off switch in the menu anywhere. I would appreciate your help

shop mode
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post #288 of 328 Old 04-15-2010, 10:11 AM
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post #289 of 328 Old 04-28-2010, 03:04 PM
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post #290 of 328 Old 05-06-2010, 07:23 AM
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Hi guys,

Just bought the set recently and had to go in the service menus to turn off Auto-Dimming (it was really annoying, for example when watchning SUNSHINE and not seeing anything in space because the backlight got too low).

Anyway, with the auto0-dimming off, I was playing the the Dynamic Contrast, and I dont' know it you guys noticed that, but the Dynamic Contrast has the exact same effect as the Auto-dimming!

For a bright picture, it will look good, but it will dim everything in a dark scene. So just my two cents: Turn that thing off.
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post #291 of 328 Old 05-06-2010, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by fbang View Post

Hi guys,

Just bought the set recently and had to go in the service menus to turn off Auto-Dimming (it was really annoying, for example when watchning SUNSHINE and not seeing anything in space because the backlight got too low).

Anyway, with the auto0-dimming off, I was playing the the Dynamic Contrast, and I dont' know it you guys noticed that, but the Dynamic Contrast has the exact same effect as the Auto-dimming!

For a bright picture, it will look good, but it will dim everything in a dark scene. So just my two cents: Turn that thing off.

The Dynamic contrast makes some changes to the greyscale accourding to what content is displayed. It makes the dimming far more agressive. For me the dimming+dynamic contrast set to mid is OK. Without dynamic contrast the dimming is allmost not visible. Sure you don't have switched on the Energy Saving Mode to Auto?
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post #292 of 328 Old 05-06-2010, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by djmuzi View Post

The Dynamic contrast makes some changes to the greyscale accourding to what content is displayed. It makes the dimming far more agressive. For me the dimming+dynamic contrast set to mid is OK. Without dynamic contrast the dimming is allmost not visible. Sure you don't have switched on the Energy Saving Mode to Auto?

To add to what you've said, the dynamic contrast affects the liquid crystals themselves, allowing shadow details to get brighter without making the surrounding dark areas brighter/lighter. However, it messes with brightness, contrast, and gamma considerably, screwing up any calibration you might have. CE dimming (auto-dimming) and energy saving auto are similar except that the peak whites are dimmed with energy saving auto but not with CE dimming. Therefore, CE dimming is preferable to energy saving auto in that it only dims the backlight in dark scenes (based on APL).


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post #293 of 328 Old 05-06-2010, 11:43 AM
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PlasmaPZ80U Thanks for more professional explanation. As I understood it I should better leave all by default when using Dynamic Contrast, because all gets screwed up? Even colors? I set calor and tint with the blue mode. I should set them back to default?
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post #294 of 328 Old 05-06-2010, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by djmuzi View Post

PlasmaPZ80U Thanks for more professional explanation. As I understood it I should better leave all by default when using Dynamic Contrast, because all gets screwed up? Even colors? I set calor and tint with the blue mode. I should set them back to default?

I leave off dynamic contrast, energy saving, and CE dimming. I used to use CE dimming alone but with my current gamma (2.35 overall, peak 2.45 @ 10% gray) I lose too much shadow detail if I do so. You should always adjust settings with all picture enhancements disabled, even if you end up turning them back on afterwards.


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post #295 of 328 Old 05-06-2010, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

I leave off dynamic contrast, energy saving, and CE dimming. I used to use CE dimming alone but with my current gamma (2.35 overall, peak 2.45 @ 10% gray) I lose too much shadow detail if I do so. You should always adjust settings with all picture enhancements disabled, even if you end up turning them back on afterwards.

I don't think that I'm loosing details in dark scenes because the overall brightness and contrast without Dynamic Contrast is much lower.

Small bright details in shades are much much clearer visible with dynamic contrast on. Maybe there are a few black details lost, but I love this pop of the dynamic contrast and the black ist much better with DC on.

See the Paramount trailer in e.g. the beginning of Transformers: With movie mode and DC off there are allmost no stars visible. In Standard mode and DC to midle, there are much more bright stars at the sky and they are white and not yellowish like in movie mode.

For my taste the Standard mode and DC are much better than the more calibrated Movie Mode. I dont own a professional equipment to set all the Gammas and "Betas" and Garmut and what else.... I better not touch anything. The one I can adjust is the blue mode, cause this is clearly visible.
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post #296 of 328 Old 05-06-2010, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by djmuzi View Post

I don't think that I'm loosing details in dark scenes because the overall brightness and contrast without Dynamic Contrast is much lower.

Small bright details in shades are much much clearer visible with dynamic contrast on. Maybe there are a few black details lost, but I love this pop of the dynamic contrast and the black ist much better with DC on.

See the Paramount trailer in e.g. the beginning of Transformers: With movie mode and DC off there are allmost no stars visible. In Standard mode and DC to midle, there are much more bright stars at the sky and they are white and not yellowish like in movie mode.

For my taste the Standard mode and DC are much better than the more calibrated Movie Mode. I dont own a professional equipment to set all the Gammas and "Betas" and Garmut and what else.... I better not touch anything. The one I can adjust is the blue mode, cause this is clearly visible.

I was talking about auto-dimming. You're talking about dynamic contrast. It's like comparing apples to oranges.

Yes, dynamic contrast does increase shadow detail but in my opinion, (and that of anyone familiar with calibration/reference images) the damage it does to the gamma response and brightness and contrast levels is not worth it. I have tried auto-dimming, energy saving auto, and dynamic contrast all with actual program material and with test patterns and only auto-dimming was acceptable to me at the time, now even auto-dimming is something I avoid.


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post #297 of 328 Old 05-06-2010, 03:48 PM
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I decided to do a quick check of the effect Energy Saving (Auto) and Dynamic Contrast have on a (1) black clipping pattern (low APL), (2) APL clipping pattern (medium APL), and (3) white clipping pattern (high APL).

Energy Saving: Auto

1. Going from Off to Auto simply dims the backlight so that the whole screen gets much dimmer evenly throughout.

2. Going from Off to Auto doesn't appear to do anything at all.

3. Going from Off to Auto does the same thing as with the black clipping pattern (1). **This is clearly a bad thing unless energy saving is all you care about.**

Dynamic Contrast: Low/Medium/High

1. Going from Off to Low does two things simultaneously: (1) the backlight dims just like with Energy Saving (Auto) and (2) the flashing bars get brighter to help compensate for the dimmer backlight level. Going from Low to Medium dims the bars a bit and going from Medium to High dims the bars a bit a second time.

2. Both the bars against the black background and the bars against the white background get dimmer (blend into background) increasingly going from Off to Low to Medium to High. No backlight changes noticed (black and white backgrounds remain unchanged). **So, shadow and highlight detail is reduced at medium APL, which is where the majority of program material is most of the time.**

3. Backlight is not affected at all (white background remains unchanged). Flashing gray bars get brighter when going from Off to Low and going from Low to Medium dims the bars a bit and going from Medium to High dims the bars a bit a second time.

If you must use one of these 'features,' Dynamic Contrast set to Low is the best overall choice as it improves black levels, increases shadow detail in low APL scenes, and increases highlight detail in high APL scenes.


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post #298 of 328 Old 05-07-2010, 07:15 AM
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I've played with it a bit more, and decided to leave the Dynamic Contrast Off. It's as annoying as the auto-dimming. I was watching Blade Runner, during the credit when they describe the replicant (scrolling white text). At first, when there's not too much text on the screen, the text is gray (dimmed). As more text fill the screens, it becomes whiter. It's ridiculous!
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post #299 of 328 Old 05-07-2010, 07:26 AM
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It prevents you from seeing grey black screen Your eyes should get uset to the dimm screen immediately. I like this feature.
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post #300 of 328 Old 05-09-2010, 08:23 PM
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So can we get a consensus on the best settings for HD digital cable viewing and blu ray? Going through this thread is immense. Maybe a mod or OP could provide in the first post some links to the preferred settings. Just a thought..
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