Official Panasonic TC-L32S1 Thread - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 483 Old 01-16-2010, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seregaknorrr View Post

Hey guys, I've been busy lately, I got my Panny for 469 - 5% bing cache back. I threw away my old 15 inch crt monitor last year so my input lag test was not pure. But I have 19 inch S-IPS NEC 1960NXI monitor that I believe has 0 input lag, I played UT3 constantly online on regular death matches and sniper servers where input lag is critical and never had a problem.The biggest difference among probably 50 shots I made using 200-500 shutter speed was 16ms compared to Nec, where 8 out of 10 times it was showing exactly same result as my Nec. So now i completely switched to this panasonic. I definitely gonna be buying a tv wall mount because sitting 2.5 feet away is a little bit close and hard to game actually, because even though resolution is 1920x1080 (Nec is 1280x1024) I can't see the whole picture without looking left and right sitting that close. Viewing angles are great, had to tweak the tint and brightness, they were set too high, too bright and too much of Red. I also used DVE Digital Video Essentials HD Basics to calibrate it a little bit, I don't have a blue filter nor hardware calibrator so that BD image was the best I could do. Porn in 1080p on this 32incher looks awesome :P. If anyone has any questions I'll be glad to answer and/or to test.

great post up your lag test results in my thread here along with some photos to prove it please and i will add it to the list of TV's that have been tested

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1131464

If you're a gamer or interested in using an LCD TV as a primary monitor take a look at my thread on Input Lag
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post #32 of 483 Old 01-17-2010, 01:20 AM
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I've had this set for about 2-3 weeks and have been really enjoying it. I use it for PC duties and heavy gaming (360). I had hope to perform and post testing results regarding lag, however, my PC (EeeBox B1012) does not support clone mode when using HDMI and VGA on two separate displays If anyone has suggestions on other ways (if there are any) to get an idea for lag, please share.
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post #33 of 483 Old 01-17-2010, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seregaknorrr View Post

Hey guys, I've been busy lately, I got my Panny for 469 - 5% bing cache back. I threw away my old 15 inch crt monitor last year so my input lag test was not pure. But I have 19 inch S-IPS NEC 1960NXI monitor that I believe has 0 input lag, I played UT3 constantly online on regular death matches and sniper servers where input lag is critical and never had a problem.The biggest difference among probably 50 shots I made using 200-500 shutter speed was 16ms compared to Nec, where 8 out of 10 times it was showing exactly same result as my Nec. So now i completely switched to this panasonic. I definitely gonna be buying a tv wall mount because sitting 2.5 feet away is a little bit close and hard to game actually, because even though resolution is 1920x1080 (Nec is 1280x1024) I can't see the whole picture without looking left and right sitting that close. Viewing angles are great, had to tweak the tint and brightness, they were set too high, too bright and too much of Red. I also used DVE Digital Video Essentials HD Basics to calibrate it a little bit, I don't have a blue filter nor hardware calibrator so that BD image was the best I could do. Porn in 1080p on this 32incher looks awesome :P. If anyone has any questions I'll be glad to answer and/or to test.


Good to know thanks for your input! I'm about to buy it too.

I went to Sears to check out an S1 and even though they did not have the 32 on display they did have the 37.

Even though this panel is supposed to be 60hz, it does have a "motion focus" setting that tries to help with motion blur. I initially wanted to buy a 32 inch tv with 120hz to use as my pc monitor, but quickly learned of input lag problems. Like everyone else I ended up looking at the S1 because of low input lag. However, I'm curious to see how far that motion focus mimics 120hz without introducing input lag.

At sears, I compared the same footage of the "Samsung NFL Led" commercial with it on and off. This commercial has objects moving from right to left through out the entire scene, and with this clip you can easily see a difference in how moving objects are displayed when the motion focus setting is on.

Have you tried to see if you see a difference in Games when using the motion focus On? I wonder if it adds any lag.
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post #34 of 483 Old 01-19-2010, 02:07 PM
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I have a feeling motion focus on the TC-L32S1 is actually backlight scanning. Is there any way of testing this? It doesn't seem to add any image processing. If it is backlight scanning it would explain why it would not add any input lag when turned on, and why it wouldn't create dejudder artifacts. Hmmm...

I just ordered a set from Amazon and will have it at home this week.
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post #35 of 483 Old 01-19-2010, 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by hidefLoans View Post

I just ordered a set from Amazon and will have it at home this week.

I purchased my set through Amazon as well. I have Amazon Prime and received it the very next day for an extra $3.99!
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post #36 of 483 Old 01-20-2010, 07:00 PM
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Here are some input lag tests I ran on the tc-l32s1.

I ran a control test on my Samsung 2333sw monitor.
Best result 0ms, worst result 16ms.

tc-l32s1

Game Mode with Motion Focus Off
Best result 0ms, worst result 32 ms.

Standard Mode with Motion Focus On (to see if it adds more lag).
Best result 0 ms, Worst Result 16ms.

NOTE: Motion focus comes off by default and seems to be backlight scanning only, no added image processing. When using it as a monitor for web browsing, it does mess make it uncomfortable because I notice a slight flicker when looking at solid, light colored backgrounds (white mostly). It does seem to help with blur but I'll only use it when I'm not using it for pc work/browsing.

Worst Result on Samsung 2333sw monitor:


5 Results with Game Mode (Motion focus off)






Standard Mode with Motion Focus On




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post #37 of 483 Old 01-20-2010, 07:08 PM
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Finally someone did a test!

question for you though it would appear that your PC was not set at 1920 x 1080p ?

also i agree on the motion focus being a scanning backlight, i finally got around to checking out the 37S1 at the local sears and when i turned motion focus on it did seem to have a slight flicker to the TV

If you're a gamer or interested in using an LCD TV as a primary monitor take a look at my thread on Input Lag
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post #38 of 483 Old 01-20-2010, 07:14 PM
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Yeah, both monitors were set to 1024x728 because I don't think the crt monitor supports anything bigger than 1600x1200.

The motion focus does seem to help. I'm trying to find a good motion test pattern, but I haven't had good luck. The last one I downloaded was a TS file of a bouncing ball, but after testing it on the CRT, the test itself has blur because its not a video, its some sort of graphic being drawn by the software to play it, and when I run it at native res the ball lags more than at lower resolutions. In short, its not an effective test to see how much the motion focus helps.
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post #39 of 483 Old 01-20-2010, 07:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hidefLoans View Post

Yeah, both monitors were set to 1024x728 because I don't think the crt monitor supports anything bigger than 1600x1200.

The motion focus does seem to help. I'm trying to find a good motion test pattern, but I haven't had good luck. The last one I downloaded was a TS file of a bouncing ball, but after testing it on the CRT, the test itself has blur because its not a video, its some sort of graphic being drawn by the software to play it, and when I run it at native res the ball lags more than at lower resolutions. In short, its not an effective test to see how much the motion focus helps.

yeah, well problem is your making the TV's scaler work so it could be adding input lag (its pretty likely it is)

have you tried giving that CRT 1920 x 1080? i bet it will do it I have a viewsonic CRT monitor that looks very close to that one and it will do it plus with CRT vertical resolution is often where the hard ceiling is not horizontal so if it does do 1600 x 1200 then it should have no problems with 1920 x 1080

mine is a 17" EA771

If you're a gamer or interested in using an LCD TV as a primary monitor take a look at my thread on Input Lag
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post #40 of 483 Old 01-20-2010, 07:33 PM
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If Im understanding this correctly, its better to set the picture mode to standard rather than game?
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post #41 of 483 Old 01-20-2010, 07:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Odysseus18 View Post

If Im understanding this correctly, its better to set the picture mode to standard rather than game?

i think the motion focus's scanning backlight is the difference between the 2 results more than game vs standard mode but i would have to see more tests to draw any real conclusions

next month when i get my 37S1 i will be doing extensive testing on it so if hidefLoans doesn't want to take the time to test it more i will post up mine in about a month

If you're a gamer or interested in using an LCD TV as a primary monitor take a look at my thread on Input Lag
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post #42 of 483 Old 01-20-2010, 08:02 PM
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"hidefloans" ..... i chose such a cheesy stupid name for myself on this forum. ugh



I thought of that (that the scaler might add lag).

I didn't know that only the v res is the limit on the CRT. I'll try setting the res to 1920 and see what it does.



I would run more tests right now, but I'm using a really crappy camera that sucks battery life like no other and a new pair of AA will only last through 20 pictures with it. I lost my canon sd a little bit ago and this is all i have. I'll run more tests tomorrow without the scaler, though.

I'll try game mode, standard mode, and standard mode with motion focus on.

If anyone else has a test request let me know and I'll get to it sometime tomorrow!
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post #43 of 483 Old 01-20-2010, 08:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hidefLoans View Post

"hidefloans" ..... i chose such a cheesy stupid name for myself on this forum. ugh



I thought of that (that the scaler might add lag).

I didn't know that only the v res is the limit on the CRT. I'll try setting the res to 1920 and see what it does.



I would run more tests right now, but I'm using a really crappy camera that sucks battery life like no other and a new pair of AA will only last through 20 pictures with it. I lost my canon sd a little bit ago and this is all i have. I'll run more tests tomorrow without the scaler, though.

I'll try game mode, standard mode, and standard mode with motion focus on.

If anyone else has a test request let me know and I'll get to it sometime tomorrow!

yeah a crappy camera would help explain why your seeing better results with the scanning backlight on because if the camera does not have a high shutter speed set you will catch the TV in between 2 frames almost every single time you take a picture, the scanning backlight will help to make sure it only gets exposed to one frame rather than 2 frames

also if your monitor does have issues with running that resolution if you have a good video card (nvidia i know will do this) you can set the video card to scale the image to the TV's native resolution taking the TV's scalier out of the equation, though the video card may add slight lag doing this as well

looking forward to the results

If you're a gamer or interested in using an LCD TV as a primary monitor take a look at my thread on Input Lag
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post #44 of 483 Old 01-20-2010, 08:13 PM
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Look forward to the results!
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post #45 of 483 Old 01-21-2010, 02:46 AM
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Is the TC-L32S1 24p compatible / capable?

I just got a Panasonic DMP-BD60K and in its options menu there's a setting to turn 24p on or off.
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post #46 of 483 Old 01-21-2010, 05:31 AM
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I have a question, am using one as a monitor with my 512 MB ATI 4830. I still have like maybe a cm space right and left and about 0.5 cm up and down. Anyway to get this real estate used? Also, can someone post directions on how to access the service menu? The red push is too much on this thing...
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post #47 of 483 Old 01-21-2010, 07:27 AM
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Eric, in the menu, under Picture >> Advanced there is a setting called HD size. The options are 1 and 2. Did you try playing with those to see if you can get rid of the underscan?

If that doesn't work, set it to the one that is closest to no over or underscan then use the modifiy screen position settings in the ATI Catalyst Control center on your pc.

The way to access the service menu is in the Official tc-l37s1 thread. It is very cryptic so be sure to write down all default values of the service menu before you start changing things. My tv does display red text a little blurry, even after a quick basic menu tools calibration. I haven't started reading about the service menu settings. I won't touch them for now as it really is not much of an issue aside from small red text.

About Vivid/Standard/Cinema/Custom(custom mode is input dependent): I did notice that on this tv each Mode has a lot of added processing that cannot be modified when you change between them. For example, when I change the custom mode to the same exact menu settings as vivid mode, vivid mode still displays a higher amount of color and brightness even if the accessible settings between the two are exactly the same. I'm going to see which of the modes has the most pleasant and accurate colors after calibration. It will take a while to calibrate each mode, but I didn't realize that each mode has image settings that cannot be modified or copied using the custom mode.


I noticed that with Custom Mode, I can push contrast all the way to 100 without color bleed that crushes darker color detail. (like the details on Nemo's dad face in Finding Nemo).

But when I switch to Vivid Mode, even though all other settings are the same, I have to lower Contrast to 60 in order to not crush all those details, but then colors and whites are not as strong.

This kind of difference makes me think that calibrating each picture mode then seeing which one is the most pleasant/accurate is the best way to go.
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post #48 of 483 Old 01-23-2010, 12:12 PM
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Sorry it took me longer than I said it would. I've been really busy the past few days, but I calibrated my set and ran more input lag tests.

I ran some new input lag tests:

the TC-L32S1 is running at native res, while the CRT is too, but the whole desktop does not fit in its max res so only a portion of the cloned screen is visible on the CRT.

Game Mode:
Best result 0 ms, Worst Result 32ms


Standard Mode (motion focus off):
Best result 0 ms, Worst Result 32 ms

The most usual result is 16ms for both modes.

Some results from Game Mode:







Some results from Standard Mode:








Other findings on usign this tv as a monitor:

Darker colored text works ok, however lighter colored text just does not look very sharp on this TV, no matter what setting. I still have not ventured into changing service menu values to see if this can be improved more than I have with the menu settings. Lowering saturation is the only way to somewhat improve fuzzy red text, but you can't entirly fix the problem. With small text I noticed a pale orange, muddy pink, oversaturated green, blue, and light blue text colors. Basically, almost every small light colored font will not look good with the TV, and I think this is probably a problem with the size of the pixels more than anything else. It is a TV not meant to work as monitor.

For games it is very very good. Motion Focus on this set is backlight scanning at a normal 60hz refresh rate. It only helps with slight slow movements across the screen, as fast movements will still produce more visible regular LCD blurring. Since it adds a slight flicker to the image, it can only be used while objects are moving on the screen (gaming, video), otherwise this flicker is bothersome when using an operating system.

I might give it a couple weeks before deciding if I will keep it, as for now I don't think it can really replace a regular monitor as a pc display. The muddy or blurry small colored text thing does bother me, and I don't think any 32 inch TV is going to be good in displaying small colored text unless you sit at least 4 feet away from it to combat the blurry effect (but not the muddy color effect).

I know this Set is pretty much the only good low input lag 32 inch tv at the moment. I feel like the size is nice, but I could do ok with something a little smaller, maybe around 26 inches. An actual pc monitor but still 1080p native. We'll see. For the moment I'll keep trying it out, because it is awesome for games, just not the best monitor for pc work.
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post #49 of 483 Old 01-23-2010, 12:48 PM
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very nice results

not much really changed then i take it by going to native res so that means the internal scalier in the TV is very fast, a good sign for PS3 owners for sure

i took an average of your 10 results and ended up with 14.2ms

if you want to try something else out swap ports used on your video card and re-test, i know at least one person with an Nvidia card did this and discovered that one of his ports was delayed by 1 frame (16ms) every time, however my GF 8800 GT does not have a delay between the ports (tested it) but the possibility definitely exists

though i will say your figures look correct as in my testing of my 32xbr6 i always got a result spread of 32ms (2 frames) meaning i would get results anywhere from 32ms to 64ms with the majority of results as well as the average landing at 47ms or 3 frames delayed, using a higher shutter speed camera resulted in more consistent results landing in 47ms area but i unfortunately do not have access to a good enough camera to get a high enough shutter speed to catch only 1 frame (need 1/1000 or higher shutter speed)

as for the text issue, yeah it could be in part the pixel size of the TV, most text on my sony 32xbr6 is very sharp and clear but my TV does have issues with certian text colors red is a problem one and dark backgrounds with lighter but still dark text colors is esp troublesome on my sony TV but overall text is very sharp

have you tried playing with the sharpness setting? you need to find the right sharpness to get no edge enhancement I'm sure, this varies from TV model and mfg as to how it works on my sony 10/30 setting is about perfect, too low and text is blurry and too high and its jagged with lots of visible edge enhancement going on

If you're a gamer or interested in using an LCD TV as a primary monitor take a look at my thread on Input Lag
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post #50 of 483 Old 01-23-2010, 02:13 PM
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Good point about the shutter speed.

I'm doing it with a crappy point and shoot with no manual shutter speed setting. I set the camera to "kids scene" thinking it probably has a high shutter setting to avoid blurry children running around quickly. I wish I hadn't lost my camera by leaving it on a airplane seat

I unintentionally tested what you pointed out about 1 frame delay with the other port on my card. I had been making a lot of changes to the way the monitors were connected to ensure I'm compressing the 0-255 color signal to 16-235, so during that I changed the port the tv is hooked in to.

I don't notice any difference on the second set of pictures from the first, so I doubt there is a frame delay on one of the two ports on my ATI 4870 card.



As far as the text, I think your tv probably looks the same as mine. My sharpeness setting is set at the threshhold of artifacting. With this tv, that setting is close to 0. I have it set to 9 out of 100. Increasing it helps with the colored text against dark backgrounds, but immediately adds white artifacts around black text.

Regular text is very sharp. I'm using it right now to type this and I have no complaints regarding anything other than bright colored text, especially against dark backgrounds like you stated.

I have a feeling that any TV will be that way with text. The holy grail of PC Monitor and Gaming screen will probably be a future pc monitor that is large and 1080p native (hopefully with 120hz that does not introduce significant input lag). We'll see how the new 120hz 24 inch monitors that are coming out soon fare in terms of input lag. I'm sure the first ones will have significant input lag versus not using 120hz.
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post #51 of 483 Old 01-23-2010, 03:38 PM
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yeah sounds like its the same as my Sony

I think the real issue is the low resolution for the screen size 30" IPS LCD monitors for example are 2560 x 1600 native

If you're a gamer or interested in using an LCD TV as a primary monitor take a look at my thread on Input Lag
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post #52 of 483 Old 01-24-2010, 01:41 AM
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I am in doubt between L37s1 and L32G1 (similar price here...). I watch from about 7 feet, and mainly hd sat channels... What is better for me...
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post #53 of 483 Old 01-24-2010, 05:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frito View Post

yeah sounds like its the same as my Sony

I think the real issue is the low resolution for the screen size 30" IPS LCD monitors for example are 2560 x 1600 native

So knowing that the 32s1 will just give you better input lag but the text will be the same with your sony, are you still thinking of going for the 37s1/g1?
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post #54 of 483 Old 01-24-2010, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hidefLoans View Post

So knowing that the 32s1 will just give you better input lag but the text will be the same with your sony, are you still thinking of going for the 37s1/g1?

yep, my TV's input lag prevents me from being able to properly play any FPS game currently and this is a big problem to me

If you're a gamer or interested in using an LCD TV as a primary monitor take a look at my thread on Input Lag
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post #55 of 483 Old 01-25-2010, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frito View Post

yep, my TV's input lag prevents me from being able to properly play any FPS game currently and this is a big problem to me

You don't think you'll wait for panasonic's new models that probably come out at the end of march?

I was thinking of doing that but after seeing the minor improvements they did from 2008's models to 2009, I assume it will be the same way for the 2010 models. The 32 inch 1080p models won't have 120hz and will just have a 20:000 DCR, so it seems its pretty much the same panel as the s1. However, the 37 inch 1080p models will be much more interesting. THere is even an edge lit LED IPS Pro at 37inches with Motion Picture Pro 4.

Not curious?
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post #56 of 483 Old 01-25-2010, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hidefLoans View Post

You don't think you'll wait for panasonic's new models that probably come out at the end of march?

I was thinking of doing that but after seeing the minor improvements they did from 2008's models to 2009, I assume it will be the same way for the 2010 models. The 32 inch 1080p models won't have 120hz and will just have a 20:000 DCR, so it seems its pretty much the same panel as the s1. However, the 37 inch 1080p models will be much more interesting. THere is even an edge lit LED IPS Pro at 37inches with Motion Picture Pro 4.

Not curious?

A little bit curious yes but there's 2 problems i got with new models

#1 they are not tested for input lag yet so i would be the Ginnie pig, yes knowing they have IPS screens still means its a good chance that input lag will be low but who knows what they might change to the video processing circuits that may add lag

#2 cost, I'd much prefer to pay less for a TV that is just as good or almost just as good but is on closeout due to being discontinued rather than risk waiting hoping the new model is not priced outrageously high and it ends up offering little to no improvements over the older model and this pretty much certain to be the case with LCD TV's these days, plus by the time the new model is out it may become difficult to find the 37 S1. I'd prefer to buy locally and as it is where i live (SF Bay area) sears is the only place that currently carries it that i have found

If you're a gamer or interested in using an LCD TV as a primary monitor take a look at my thread on Input Lag
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post #57 of 483 Old 01-25-2010, 01:36 PM
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I guess I missed Panasonic's announcement(s). All I saw were some press releases for larger and higher end models for this year.

I didn't see anything regarding replacements for their smaller sets (32" and under).
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post #58 of 483 Old 01-25-2010, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IsLNdbOi View Post

I guess I missed Panasonic's announcement(s). All I saw were some press releases for larger and higher end models for this year.

I didn't see anything regarding replacements for their smaller sets (32" and under).

Here's what they are offering this year in a nice quick chart that tells you what sizes each model will come in and the major features.

http://panasonic.net/avc/viera/us201...rison_lcd.html
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post #59 of 483 Old 01-25-2010, 03:39 PM
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Would it be possible to test lag via the component input? or would the results be similar?
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post #60 of 483 Old 01-26-2010, 07:25 AM
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What files can the SD card read?
I was looking for using JPG, MP3 and video files....

Especially the later, I have cable but don't use it and would love to be able to use videos especially on SD card and not have to turn my computer on.

thanks
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