Official Sony KDL-XXZ5100 Owner's Thread - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 2287 Old 08-26-2009, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by rckrz6 View Post

Clouding is normal in these sets as every other sony set and they will do nothing for you unless it is very severe clouding

I think what Natalie is saying is that the clouding is normal when there isn't any video input and that is understandable. I didn't realize that some of the complainers were citing the clouding without a video input. I thought their issue was clouding with a video input during a dark or blackened scene, which would be a real problem. Clouding without an input isn't a problem (I usually don't spend any time with the TV turned on and looking at my screen without any video input, do you?) as long as the clouding doesn't carry over to when there is dark or blackened video input.
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post #272 of 2287 Old 08-26-2009, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CEB II View Post

I think what Natalie is saying is that the clouding is normal when there isn't any video input and that is understandable. I didn't realize that some of the complainers were citing the clouding without a video input. I thought their issue was clouding with a video input during a dark or blackened scene, which would be a real problem. Clouding without an input isn't a problem (I usually don't spend any time with the TV turned on and looking at my screen without any video input, do you?) as long as the clouding doesn't carry over to when there is dark or blackened video input.

The clouding only carrys over to a normal picture when there is like someone in a black suit or something in the corner of the screen which is still very hard to notice
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post #273 of 2287 Old 08-27-2009, 05:53 AM
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Reading instruction manual I found there are settings for color that are not available on TV menu. Sony engineer was not helpfull, but puzzled as much as I was. Investigation is in the process and Ilet you know the outcome.
Attachment 151031

 

Pages from KDLxxZ5100_referencebook.doc 236.203125k . file
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post #274 of 2287 Old 08-27-2009, 05:59 AM
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This page is available on line at sony help and support under z5100 TV in PDF format and not a part of the manual that comes with the TV.
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post #275 of 2287 Old 08-27-2009, 06:05 AM
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[quote=Cr00zng;16780634]Well, evidently the flashlight effect on my new Sony requires repairs. Here's the transcript of our chat session, the identities had been removed:



I guess the moral of the story is that check the store exchange policy before the purchase is made. It also seems that the flashlight effect is rather common with Sony LCDs based on what's available on the 'net on this subject. It also seems that the Tech is aware this issue as well; this wasn't much of a troubleshooting at all.

I do like the PQ as long as it's daylight on the screen, but unfortunately most movies do have night screens. That's not really fair, the TV also looks great with news channels in HD, such as CNN, Fox, ESPN, etc.

I got the same pronlem and dame answer from Sony. Tv is only 10 days old.
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post #276 of 2287 Old 08-27-2009, 09:18 AM
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[quote=nvaksman;17072061]
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Originally Posted by Cr00zng View Post


It also seems that the flashlight effect is rather common with Sony LCDs based on what's available on the 'net on this subject.

I got the same pronlem and dame answer from Sony. Tv is only 10 days old.

The problem is pretty common with many LCD HDTVs. The new Samsung edge-lit LED LCDs in particular have a real problem with it. So, it isn't just a Sony thing (BTW I own 2 Samsung and 1 Sony HDTV, so I'm not a brand fanatic).
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post #277 of 2287 Old 08-27-2009, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by nvaksman View Post

Reading instruction manual I found there are settings for color that are not available on TV menu. Sony engineer was not helpfull, but puzzled as much as I was. Investigation is in the process and Ilet you know the outcome.
Attachment 151031

This appears to be for the XBR9 since there is a choice for Wide Color Gamut, which the Z series does not have...Will

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post #278 of 2287 Old 08-27-2009, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Will Munshower View Post

This appears to be for the XBR9 since there is a choice for Wide Color Gamut, which the Z series does not have...Will

it was taken from z5100 manual on line
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post #279 of 2287 Old 08-27-2009, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nvaksman View Post

it was taken from z5100 manual on line

I don't doubt that, at all. However, the Z does not have WCG, I am 100% sure about that. Sony seems to have made an error if it was found on the Z5100 section...Will

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post #280 of 2287 Old 08-27-2009, 10:02 AM
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nvaksman,

Could you please supply a link instead of an attachment for the section of the reference manual? I only see Z5100 menu choices on the esupport website.

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post #281 of 2287 Old 08-27-2009, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Will Munshower View Post

nvaksman,

Could you please supply a link instead of an attachment for the section of the reference manual? I only see Z5100 menu choices on the esupport website.

http://esupport.sony.com/US/perl/mod...mdl=KDL52Z5100
use "Online Reference Book (.pdf version)"
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post #282 of 2287 Old 08-27-2009, 11:21 AM
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nvaksman,

I went through the pdf doc. I did not see the section that states that the Z5100 has Wide Color Gamut back-lighting. That does not mean that it isn't there. What I can tell you, with absolute certainty, is that the Z5100 does not have this feature. I could not be more sure of this.

I just don't want to see you banging your head against the wall dealing with Sony Support. Eventually, you'll get someone who knows what you are talking about and they will tell you what I just did.

Edit: Ok, I found it. However, it is a mis-print.

Anyone want to mess with Sony today?

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post #283 of 2287 Old 08-27-2009, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Will Munshower View Post

nvaksman,

I went through the pdf doc. I did not see the section that states that the Z5100 has Wide Color Gamut back-lighting. That does not mean that it isn't there. What I can tell you, with absolute certainty, is that the Z5100 does not have this feature. I could not be more sure of this.

I just don't want to see you banging your head against the wall dealing with Sony Support. Eventually, you'll get someone who knows what you are talking about and they will tell you what I just did.

Edit: Ok, I found it. However, it is a mis-print.

Anyone want to mess with Sony today?

According to Sony product specialist and engineer inthe lab it should have it, if the manual says so. I agree with you, it is an error and they have to remove it from online documents.
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post #284 of 2287 Old 08-28-2009, 09:31 PM
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I have been lurking this thread along with the v5100 thread for a while. Is the z worth the extra $300? I am more interested in the picture quality over the internet capabilities (have an xbox for that). Plus the bravia can only stream mpg2 which is a downer.
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post #285 of 2287 Old 08-29-2009, 02:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan_R_M View Post

I have been lurking this thread along with the v5100 thread for a while. Is the z worth the extra $300? I am more interested in the picture quality over the internet capabilities (have an xbox for that). Plus the bravia can only stream mpg2 which is a downer.

Dan,

I've had both the 52V5100 and now the 52Z. The V is a nice set. However, IMO, the Z is a great panel. The colors are more rich and I have ZERO clouding and flashlighthing, as I ended up experiencing with the V. I'm sure the 10/10 bit panel and processor, instead of the 8 bit and BE3 instead of BE2 have a lot do do with the PQ. I'm not sure why clouding and flashlighting are not apparent, especially when I hear of some complaining about it.

As far as Internet capabilities...Since you have an XBox (I use a PS3), a media rendering device is much more robust than the Bravia Link. So that did not play into my decision.

The bezel is sexier. The set is over an inch thinner. You get to have the XMB over that crap they use in BE2.

Do what I did. Go to a high-end big box dealer and compare the V, the Z and the XBR9. The big box store in my area just happened to have the 52" models right in a row, playing the same HD content. It made life much easier. The higher end stores are more apt to let you fiddle with the remote, with the promise that you will change it back. The rich deep blacks and a 3D pop that the Z and the XBR9 produce ended up sealing the deal.

In summary, I find it well worth the difference. Shop around. The prices have been dropping precipitously since they were released.

EDIT: One more thing that was a huge issue for me. The optical out on the V does not output DD 5.1 (even though literature and the box it came in says it does), it only sends out PCM 2.0. The Z has no problems with DD 5.1. This won't be an issue if you do not watch a lot of OTA TV. I, however do. It beats the heck out of the super compressed HD from cable or satellite.

YMMV...Will

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post #286 of 2287 Old 08-29-2009, 06:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Will Munshower View Post

Dan,

I've had both the 52V5100 and now the 52Z. The V is a nice set. However, IMO, the Z is a great panel. The colors are more rich and I have ZERO clouding and flashlighthing, as I ended up experiencing with the V. I'm sure the 10/10 bit panel and processor, instead of the 8 bit and BE3 instead of BE2 have a lot do do with the PQ. I'm not sure why clouding and flashlighting are not apparent, especially when I hear of some complaining about it.

As far as Internet capabilities...Since you have an XBox (I use a PS3), a media rendering device is much more robust than the Bravia Link. So that did not play into my decision.

The bezel is sexier. The set is over an inch thinner. You get to have the XMB over that crap they use in BE2.

Do what I did. Go to a high-end big box dealer and compare the V, the Z and the XBR9. The big box store in my area just happened to have the 52" models right in a row, playing the same HD content. It made life much easier. The higher end stores are more apt to let you fiddle with the remote, with the promise that you will change it back. The rich deep blacks and a 3D pop that the Z and the XBR9 produce ended up sealing the deal.

In summary, I find it well worth the difference. Shop around. The prices have been dropping precipitously since they were released.

EDIT: One more thing that was a huge issue for me. The optical out on the V does not output DD 5.1 (even though literature and the box it came in says it does), it only sends out PCM 2.0. The Z has no problems with DD 5.1. This won't be an issue if you do not watch a lot of OTA TV. I, however do. It beats the heck out of the super compressed HD from cable or satellite.

YMMV...Will

The Z and XB( are very good sets, but mine Z has light leakage that really bad when watching the TV in dark room. Be aware that Sony did not fix this problem yet. I got the TV 12 days ago from Amazone, the unit was made in April, 2009. I am not sure about improvement on the issue since Aptil.
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post #287 of 2287 Old 08-29-2009, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by nvaksman View Post

I am not sure about improvement on the issue since Aptil.

Nate,

I don't want to sound like I am flaming you. However, your statement sounds like you are saying that all Z series Sony's have this light leakage you are talking about. This is not the case. I only recall one other person with issues, here at AVS.

Speaking for myself, my set is in a cave. I have blackout window treatments and very thick curtains in my family/HT room. It is extremely dark. There is not a flashlight or cloud to be seen. This is not a design flaw. Keep working with Sony to get it fixed, if it is indeed broken.

Correct me if I'm wrong but don't you have the issue only when there is not an active input selected? As CEB II stated, and I would like to echo this, you will have light leakage with no input applied.

I wish you the best of luck with getting your set fixed...I really do! I have a very expensive XBR2 that had to have the optical block repaired three times and now it is sitting in my living room, unused. I sympathize whole-heartedly.

I just think it is not very fair to prospective buyers that have read, what appears to be a blanket statement, and think that all Sony Z series sets have this issue. They do not.

Best wishes...Will

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post #288 of 2287 Old 08-29-2009, 09:10 AM
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I am not making any statements, but even with DVD input. I see upper right corner has bright grey spot. With no signal the clouds are all over the screen. My other Sony don't have this effect at all
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post #289 of 2287 Old 08-29-2009, 03:45 PM
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Ive had 2 different 40z5100 and they both have moderate backlight bleed. The room is always dim though
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post #290 of 2287 Old 08-29-2009, 04:39 PM
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Is it only Sony, or other brands has this problem too?
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post #291 of 2287 Old 08-30-2009, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nvaksman View Post

Is it only Sony, or other brands has this problem too?

sony samsung mostly, they are in a partnership with panel production

It is a typical LCD problem though so im not picking on just those 2
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post #292 of 2287 Old 08-31-2009, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by rckrz6 View Post

sony samsung mostly, they are in a partnership with panel production

It is a typical LCD problem though so im not picking on just those 2

I received my TV from amazon and table stand was attached, yellow page inside the box says that stand must be attached and give instruction how to.
My question was it an open box?
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post #293 of 2287 Old 08-31-2009, 11:55 AM
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My 46Z5100 that was purchased at Sears, had the stand separate and I had to attach it. Since everything was tightly packed in foam edge holders, I don't see how one could ship the set with the stand attached, as it would create a larger shipping volume. I think the screws came in a little plastic bag, as did all parts to the tv. If your tv is working well and you are happy, then there is less to worry.
I hope you enjoy your set; I am pleased with its performance and picture quality, even in the SD mode. Hope this helps.
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post #294 of 2287 Old 08-31-2009, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nvaksman View Post

I received my TV from amazon and table stand was attached, yellow page inside the box says that stand must be attached and give instruction how to.
My question was it an open box?

It depends on what size you bought. The 52" has the stand already attached. The smaller sizes you have to do yourself.

This is indicated on the the Sonystyle pages for the TVs.
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post #295 of 2287 Old 09-01-2009, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nvaksman View Post

I received my TV from amazon and table stand was attached, yellow page inside the box says that stand must be attached and give instruction how to.
My question was it an open box?

My 52Z5100 from Amazon came with the stand attached. Everything else in the box was obviously in its original shipment packaging. I don't know why the stand was attached (no problem with it fitting in the shipping box with the stand attached), but the yellow tag does say to attach the stand.

Actually I was quite pleased that the stand came attached as I worried about the delivery guys messing up my new screen while trying to attach the stand (I fretted when the delivery guys had to attach the stand to my 32" Samsung LCD when it arrived in December 2007; they ended up placing it face down on our bed). I was quite relieved when all they had to do is remove the top box and lift the set out and onto my HDTV stand.

Has anyone received one of the Z5100s from Amazon that didn't have the stand attached?
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post #296 of 2287 Old 09-01-2009, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nvaksman View Post

Is it only Sony, or other brands has this problem too?

As I noted in an earlier post, this is a common LCD HDTV problem. Flashlighting is a big problem on Samsung's new LED LCDs sets that use edge-lit LEDs.
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post #297 of 2287 Old 09-02-2009, 06:48 AM
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I'm quite unhappy with this set or I am simply just unlucky and keep getting lemons. At first I was amazed at the picture quality, but then it became dark outside and I watched the movie Watchmen on Bluray. At that point I noticed some pretty bad flashlights. If I'm goin to spend two grand and spend a bit more for a SonyBravia I expect nothing less than BLACK, especially since there're are others on this forum who say they have this model and have no flashlighting.

So am I just unlucky or is there really a 52Z out there for me, b/c its a pain in the butt to keep boxing this thing up and taking it back to BB.

Are flashlights more common in larger LCDs? B/c my 37" REGZA displayed all black.

I don't know what to do. I'm quite dissapointed because I did quite a bit of research before finally deciding on this LCD and honestly for the price there is no other LCD that can compare-assuming it performs how it's supposed to. PLASMA crossed my mind.

Enlosed is a picture taken with a blackberry phone to show the flashlight and to show that I'm not exagerating or being extrememly picky. The flashlight in the upper left corner is huge.

img156.imageshack.us/img156/5752/braviaflashlight.jpg
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post #298 of 2287 Old 09-02-2009, 09:24 AM
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I have Light leakage from the same corner. I guess all of them do.
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post #299 of 2287 Old 09-02-2009, 10:06 AM
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nvaksman is your's as bad as mine? And you're satisfied with that?
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post #300 of 2287 Old 09-02-2009, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nvaksman View Post

I have Light leakage from the same corner. I guess all of them do.

No, they don't. Can light leakage be a problem with LCD technology? Yes. However, I currently own two LCD TVs, one of them a 52Z5100. As I have mentioned before, my HT room is essentially a cave, from a darkness perspective. I don't have a single flashlight and/or clouding at all. Zilch...Nada...Nothing! I can even crank up the brightness and/or backlight up pretty high, if my mood dictates...No flashlights, no clouding, no haze.

Have you tried lowering the brightness, contrast, backlight or Advanced Contrast Enhancer? Have you tried shutting off ACE, light limiter, black corrector, properly setting gamma or properly setting Scene in the preference menu? Also, leave the white balance controls to their default positions, unless you have a colorimeter to set it accurately. Have you used Digital Video Essentials, HD Basics or Avia to properly set the adjustment parameters of your set?

If you haven't used a calibration disc to properly adjust the basic to intermediate settings on your television, you are doing yourself a great disservice. Might I also suggest bias lighting on the wall behind your set if you don't already have the Bravia wall mounted.

Many consumers will change the settings to the maximum levels, thinking that more is better. Heck, even the manufacurer's crank up the levels by default, in hopes of having their particular brand/model stand out against their competition on the showroom floor.

If you don't have a calibration DVD, even the THX Optimizer, which is a menu choice on most, if not all THX films is better than nothing. Even that is better than 'eyeballing' the settings on their TV. If you do all of this (and I'm certain some of our fellow members will come up with more) and you still have a high level of light leakage, then it appears that you may have a defective set.

I just don't like it when a product is categorically labeled as being crap by using blanket statements implying that "they all suck". So, please do these two things (user calibration and if that doesn't fix it, get a tech out there) before you continue bad mouthing what myself and others believe to be a fantastic panel.

It also couldn't hurt if you let us know what your system configuration is , how the components are connected and what your video settings are on the Z. You need to look at settings on your components, as well. Just off the top of my head are black enhancer settings on DVD players or AVRs, having RGB selected instead of component, inadvertently setting RGB to 'full range', instead of limited when you are not using the Z with a computer.

There are also contrast and brightness settings, among many others in DVD players, AVRs and video post processors that could be magnifying or even causing the issue.

I hate to sound like I am slamming you, Nate...There are just so many simple on/off settings alone that could be contributing or even causing the very things that you have been upset and posting about, practically every day.

We can't read your mind. There are thousands of members here who have forgotten more than I know. I try to spend as much time as possible learning from them. We don't know what level of expertise you are at, hence, we don't know what you have, what you have set or not set and whether or not you have ever tried to do a user calibration. But here's the thing...Speaking for myself, if you just did some research about this and asked specific questions rather than implying that Sony makes an inferior product, I would go to great lengths to help you, as I'm pretty sure that many others will.

Red was my first love. Blu is my new wife!
HD DVD-117
Blu-Ray-287
SD DVD-544

You can't have everything. Where would you put it? Steven Wright
Will Munshower is offline  
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