Official Sony KDL-XXZ5100 Owner's Thread - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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post #631 of 2287 Old 12-03-2009, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by c3 View Post

It has to be within the return period.

I'm a silver rz member, so that gives me 45 days. I better get over there fast!
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post #632 of 2287 Old 12-03-2009, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Tigerriot View Post

Flashing lighting either exists, or it doesn't. There isn't an in-between. Here is a pic for demonstration. The four corners of the dark image are lit up brighter than the rest of the screen.

During a dark scene in a movie, the flashlighting will be visible if the TV has a problem with it. Clouding is simply flashlighting but in areas other than the corners. It's a brighter area on the screen.

In my experience and knowledge of current TV's, the Sony models seem to have more issues with this than Samsung. Samsung seems to have made great strides in this area with this year's models. My evidence for this is mainly based on CNET's reviews, which mention all the current Sony models has having flashlighting issues, while they mention the Samsung models haven't almost no issues with it. I also bought a 46" Samsung B530 earlier this year, and it had very good uniformity, but I ended up returning it anyway because I wasn't sure about what I wanted at the time.


Flashlighting exists if the viewing conditions allow for its observation. Most folks, if they so desire, can minimize or eliminate them with tuning such as using Will's setup for dark room viewing. I have a well lighted viewing room so I haven't messed with the backlight level, contrast, and brightness to try to affect the one corner I have a few times seen a flashlight. OTOH, in real-world viewing, one seldom stares at a black screen image like you posted for an extended period of time. Unless you are on PAUSE, most video is fairly fast moving and unless you are staring at a flashlight affected corner the moment that corner gets dark enough to show it, you will likely miss it. That is not to say that some folks haven't received HDTVs that are defective and have very pronounced flashlighting even in normal viewing conditions.

As to clouding, the clouding I see is source dependent. For example, I can watch the Dark Knight from start to finish without ever seeing a cloud despite most of movie being dark, night scenes. OTOH, watching SyFy HD's presentation of old X-Files episodes produces obnoxious clouding in any night scenes. Same thing with some poorly re-mastered HD movies on Starz. So, the clouding I cited isn't related to the flashlighting issue.

As to which HDTV manufacturer has more problems with flashlighting, I believe it is model or series dependent. For example, all of the Samsung LED LCD HDTVs are reported to have flashlighting problems due to Samsung's poor execution of LED edge lighting or the limitations of that technology. Back in spring when I was following the B750 thread closely, there were several purchasers that complained of flashlighting and returned or exchanged their sets. I don't think the percentage of complainers in this thread is any higher than what I saw in the B750 thread.

BTW, studying your BD intro photo I only see flashlights in 3 corners, not 4.
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post #633 of 2287 Old 12-03-2009, 05:20 PM
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This is a little off topic, but it clearly relates to Z5100 owners.

I have the "green light" to get a BD player for our 52Z5100 for Christmas. I'm leaning toward the Sony line of BD players as I've seen a lot of bad consumer reviews of the popular and rated Samsung BD players. So which Sony to get?

The Sony N460 seems to be the latest and greatest available at the price point I'm shopping, but its main claim to fame is its network connectivity and NetFlix capability. Well, we Z51000 owners already have that capability, so is the N460 a waste for a Z5100 setup?

A similar model w/o the on-line content capability, but with on-board wireless hookup capability is the S560. Well, while I might eventually go wireless for the TV setup, I'll need a separate bridge for the Z5100 anyway, so the S560 doesn't seem to offer much.

That brings me to the S360, which is just a basic BD player.

To me the main criteria for a BD player for my setup are BD PQ, upscaled DVD PQ, loading speed, and menu operation. Based on these criteria, what do you other Z5100 owners think is the best way to go for a BD player?
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post #634 of 2287 Old 12-03-2009, 05:28 PM
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CEB II... have you consider the Oppo blu-ray player? It is probably one of the best upscaling blu-ray players currently available. I've also heard good things about the Pioneer model as well. It's reported to be slow from a loading perspective, but the upscaling is said to be extremely good.
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post #635 of 2287 Old 12-03-2009, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by HD_Lantern View Post

CEB II... have you consider the Oppo blu-ray player? It is probably one of the best upscaling blu-ray players currently available. I've also heard good things about the Pioneer model as well. It's reported to be slow from a loading perspective, but the upscaling is said to be extremely good.

The good Oppos I've read about are beyond my price point for this purchase.
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post #636 of 2287 Old 12-03-2009, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by CEB II View Post

The good Oppos I've read about are beyond my price point for this purchase.

If you don't really need internet features, consider the Pioneer 320. It's reasonably priced and is said to have great picture quality, particularly with DVD upscaling.

Here is a review:

http://www.avrev.com/home-theater-vi...ay-player.html

I have a Samsung 2550, which also upscales DVD's nicely with its Reon chip. It's last year's model, but you still might be able to find one.
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post #637 of 2287 Old 12-03-2009, 11:33 PM
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Originally Posted by CEB II View Post

The good Oppos I've read about are beyond my price point for this purchase.

What is your price point?
You might want to wait just a little while longer.
Maybe a better opportunity will present itself soon.

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post #638 of 2287 Old 12-04-2009, 07:50 AM
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Alright Dave - what do you know - I haven't been reading the Oppo thread lately because it seems most of the info is repeating itself these days unless you're interested in the upgrade for analogue audio. Sorry to be off topic by inquiring minds want to know. By the way, the Oppo is worth the extra money and the effort to find the $ (any lose change?), but the recommendation regarding the Pioneer is a good one too.

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post #639 of 2287 Old 12-04-2009, 08:33 AM
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Does anyone have any idea as to why the shortage of the 52z5100 supply that seems to be nationwide? I purchased my package deal from BB on Tuesday evening and the sales associate said the earliest delivery date he had was Dec 9. I scheduled the delivery for Dec 12 since it was the earliest day after the 9th that worked for me. Last night I checked to see the inventory on bestbuy.com and not a single BB in my state(WA) had it on hand. Same goes for a LOT of the BB stores nationwide and Crutchfield doesn't have it either. What gives? All I know is that it better be delivered well before XMas as I have family visiting from out of town...
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post #640 of 2287 Old 12-04-2009, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by kissiffer4 View Post

Finally made my first HD purchase yesterday! Looking forward to having the KDL-52z5100 delivered tomorrow! To back up what a couple of others on here were saying, I paid $1700 at BestBuy (after tax, incl. PS3, game, movie, delivery & installation). Definititely seemed like a great deal, but of course wondering if I overpaid haha.

Complete newbie to the HD world so any advice on cables much appreciated! Looking at monoprice.com, but there are so many available.

Cheers all!


Which store did you get this at? Is this advertised or negotiated? I am interested.
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post #641 of 2287 Old 12-04-2009, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by ultragc View Post

Which store did you get this at? Is this advertised or negotiated? I am interested.

Second. I just pulled the trigger last night on the BB bundle: Discount on the KDL-52Z5100, 50% off the PS3, and the movie and game go in for free. Total after tax for me was $1,780.xx for the whole package. Couldn't believe it so I jumped on it. This was not negotiated, it's what the computer spit right out. And I made the guy prove to me he didn't accidentally ring up a v5100! This is worth seeking out IMO. BTW, this was about $300 cheaper than the BB web site version of the same package deal, because the web doesn't discount the PS3 or the game/movie, and the tv portion of the discount is a little less aggressive on the web. Web version of the same deal comes to almost $2,100 after tax.
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post #642 of 2287 Old 12-04-2009, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by wwroller View Post

Second. I just pulled the trigger last night on the BB bundle: Discount on the KDL-52Z5100, 50% off the PS3, and the movie and game go in for free. Total after tax for me was $1,780.xx for the whole package. Couldn't believe it so I jumped on it. This was not negotiated, it's what the computer spit right out. And I made the guy prove to me he didn't accidentally ring up a v5100! This is worth seeking out IMO. BTW, this was about $300 cheaper than the BB web site version of the same package deal, because the web doesn't discount the PS3 or the game/movie, and the tv portion of the discount is a little less aggressive on the web. Web version of the same deal comes to almost $2,100 after tax.

Thanks for the info. I will probably drop by this afternoon and look... see if they can do $1700 or below.
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post #643 of 2287 Old 12-04-2009, 11:06 AM
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I'm going to stop in and ask if they'll match the deal for SonyStyle's bundle; 52z5100, Blu-Ray Audio System, and Blu-Ray player for $1979. It's a longshot, but if they want to make a sale...
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post #644 of 2287 Old 12-04-2009, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by AKAAB View Post

I'm going to stop in and ask if they'll match the deal for SonyStyle's bundle; 52z5100, Blu-Ray Audio System, and Blu-Ray player for $1979. It's a longshot, but if they want to make a sale...

I think the Best Buy bundle with PS3, game, and movie is better than the SonyStyle bundle you speak of...
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post #645 of 2287 Old 12-04-2009, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smurraybhm View Post

Alright Dave - what do you know - I haven't been reading the Oppo thread lately because it seems most of the info is repeating itself these days unless you're interested in the upgrade for analogue audio. Sorry to be off topic by inquiring minds want to know. By the way, the Oppo is worth the extra money and the effort to find the $ (any lose change?), but the recommendation regarding the Pioneer is a good one too.

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post #646 of 2287 Old 12-04-2009, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PunjabiM3 View Post

Does anyone have any idea as to why the shortage of the 52z5100 supply that seems to be nationwide? I purchased my package deal from BB on Tuesday evening and the sales associate said the earliest delivery date he had was Dec 9. I scheduled the delivery for Dec 12 since it was the earliest day after the 9th that worked for me. Last night I checked to see the inventory on bestbuy.com and not a single BB in my state(WA) had it on hand. Same goes for a LOT of the BB stores nationwide and Crutchfield doesn't have it either. What gives? All I know is that it better be delivered well before XMas as I have family visiting from out of town...

Probably because they are practically giving them away with these XMas bundle deals!
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post #647 of 2287 Old 12-04-2009, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Smarty-pants View Post

What is your price point?
You might want to wait just a little while longer.
Maybe a better opportunity will present itself soon.

I have my Amazon target date and my price point (i.e., equal to or less than $200 because in a couple of years these things will be selling for less than $100; they've been grossly overpriced since the demise of HD-DVD), and I haven't seen CRs top rated Oppo (BDP-83) come close to $200 on Amazon (currently$500, which is ridiculous for a BD player regardless of its features).

BTW, what Sony BD player is being included in the BB bundles and the SonyStyle bundles?
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post #648 of 2287 Old 12-04-2009, 12:35 PM
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Purchased the BB 52z5100 HDTV,5.1 BD/DVD Home Theatre System bundle and need help with what monoprice cables I need to purchase (so i only have to make one order!). This receiver only has 1 HDMI out so I need help with configuration.

I have a Motorola DCT6412 III digital cable receiver with the following
1 HDMI out
1 Optical SPDIF
1 S-Video
Ethernet
USB
SATA

How should I connect the Cable Receiver, Home Theatre receiver and HDTV?

I thank you in advance for any suggestions.
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post #649 of 2287 Old 12-04-2009, 01:23 PM
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CEB III, the BB bundle comes with a Sony-Blu-ray Disc Player with 1080p Output-BDP-S560, and Sony-BRAVIA 1000W 5.1-Ch. Home Theater System with Blu-ray Disc Player-BDVE300
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post #650 of 2287 Old 12-04-2009, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PunjabiM3 View Post

I think the Best Buy bundle with PS3, game, and movie is better than the SonyStyle bundle you speak of...

I think it depends on what you're looking for. I don't want another game system, but I do want a better sound system and a blu-ray player for the bedroom tv. So, based on what I'm looking for I think the bundle looks fair.

# 52" Z Series HDTV $2499.99
# Blu-ray Disc Home Theater System $599.99 Model number: BDV-E300
# Blu-ray Disc Player $199.99 Model number: BDP-S360

# Original Price $3299.97
# Your Price $1979.97

BTW - Best Buy pulled up the SonyStyle page and agreed to match the deal. The first sales person showed no interest in even trying to make a sale, but the second to come up to me said she'd run it by the manager. She went on the computer, printed out the Sony page, and came back a few minutes later with a thumbs up from the boss. I'd much rather be able to return/exchange locally if there is a problem.

I checked with Visa and my Gold card includes the double the manufacturer warranty benefit, so I think I'm safe without the extended warranty from BB.

Now, off to monoprice for cables...
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post #651 of 2287 Old 12-04-2009, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wwroller View Post

Second. I just pulled the trigger last night on the BB bundle: Discount on the KDL-52Z5100, 50% off the PS3, and the movie and game go in for free. Total after tax for me was $1,780.xx for the whole package. Couldn't believe it so I jumped on it. This was not negotiated, it's what the computer spit right out. And I made the guy prove to me he didn't accidentally ring up a v5100! This is worth seeking out IMO. BTW, this was about $300 cheaper than the BB web site version of the same package deal, because the web doesn't discount the PS3 or the game/movie, and the tv portion of the discount is a little less aggressive on the web. Web version of the same deal comes to almost $2,100 after tax.

Went to BB this afternoon and they honored this deal on the Z I bought there in late October. I walked in with nothing, walked out with a PS3, a game, a movie, and $300. Sweet deal.

Thanks to those who mentioned this sale in this thread. It was a lovely christmas gift from AVS!
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post #652 of 2287 Old 12-04-2009, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djbrown13 View Post

Went to BB this afternoon and they honored this deal on the Z I bought there in late October. I walked in with nothing, walked out with a PS3, a game, a movie, and $300. Sweet deal.

Thanks to those who mentioned this sale in this thread. It was a lovely christmas gift from AVS!

Nice! I am shocked BB honored the deal. Usually it is just a 30 day price match, but I guess in your case you are a silver RZ member. I too would be a silver RZ member, but it was only after this purchase that it will bump my yearly RZ total into silver level. Question is will I have the silver RZ benefits for a one year period or just through the end of December?
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post #653 of 2287 Old 12-04-2009, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stmtaa View Post

Purchased the BB 52z5100 HDTV,5.1 BD/DVD Home Theatre System bundle and need help with what monoprice cables I need to purchase (so i only have to make one order!). This receiver only has 1 HDMI out so I need help with configuration.

I have a Motorola DCT6412 III digital cable receiver with the following
1 HDMI out
1 Optical SPDIF
1 S-Video
Ethernet
USB
SATA

How should I connect the Cable Receiver, Home Theatre receiver and HDTV?

I thank you in advance for any suggestions.

How many HDMI inputs does the receiver have?

If none (I think this is what's in the Sony bundles):
1 HDMI from cable box to TV
1 HDMI from receiver to TV
1 optical from cable to receiver
with a single optical input on the receiver and only optical outs on the cable box and the TV, you won't be able to send digital audio from the TV to the receiver if you watch OTA

If one or more:
1 HDMI from the cable box to the receiver
1 HDMI from the receiver to the TV
optional - 1 optical from the TV to the receiver, if you watch OTA and want to run that audio through your receiver

I'm sure I've forgotten something, but at least it's a starting point.
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post #654 of 2287 Old 12-04-2009, 05:40 PM
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Hello all, i just picked up a 52 Z5100 at BB. I have it all setup and using WillMushower settings for Blu Ray (Very NICE!!!). I checked for an update and one is available, should i update? 1 thing i have noticed is that though im connected to the Internet, i am unable to watch any videos.... the widgets are fine but the videos will load but do not start. does that have anything to do with the update? I exchanged it from a Panny G10 which has an amazing picture but I did not have a piece of mind with it due to worrying about IR (I'm a gamer) so in the end i decided to exchange for this Sony and I'm very happy with my decision.
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post #655 of 2287 Old 12-04-2009, 07:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djbrown13 View Post

Went to BB this afternoon and they honored this deal on the Z I bought there in late October. I walked in with nothing, walked out with a PS3, a game, a movie, and $300. Sweet deal.

Thanks to those who mentioned this sale in this thread. It was a lovely christmas gift from AVS!

Sweet!!

Del
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post #656 of 2287 Old 12-04-2009, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by rckrz6 View Post

The tv has only been out for a few weeks i believe, i have a hard time finding answers to my questions to. You may have to wait til there in your local stores to see

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post #657 of 2287 Old 12-04-2009, 08:30 PM
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I went to BB today and they are all out of 52Z5100 and same for all the local branches (Hacienda, Calif) WTF!!!! Their estimate availability is 01/06/2010. The claim it might be earlier.

Anyway, I order the item just to be safe since the promo ends tomorrow... this way I am safe at least. In the meantime, I will shop around for the same or better deal before they deliver. I am hoping Amazon (not other dealers) offer this so I can save on Tax.
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post #658 of 2287 Old 12-04-2009, 08:36 PM
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it was actually out of stock at my BB too in NJ, they asked me if i wanted to pick it up at their warehouse. I said hell yes
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post #659 of 2287 Old 12-05-2009, 05:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nino1919 View Post

Hello all, i just picked up a 52 Z5100 at BB. I have it all setup and using WillMushower settings for Blu Ray (Very NICE!!!). I checked for an update and one is available, should i update? 1 thing i have noticed is that though im connected to the Internet, i am unable to watch any videos.... the widgets are fine but the videos will load but do not start. does that have anything to do with the update? I exchanged it from a Panny G10 which has an amazing picture but I did not have a piece of mind with it due to worrying about IR (I'm a gamer) so in the end i decided to exchange for this Sony and I'm very happy with my decision.

Sure. It doesn't seem to change any setting parameters. It just adds a couple of widgets and a few Internet links for audio and video. Thanks for the shout out on the settings...Will

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post #660 of 2287 Old 12-05-2009, 07:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick. View Post

The only progress Samsung has made is CE dimming which just hides the issue. Turn it off and I bet they are the same if not worse. As for the B530 you mention it has serious problems(much worse than uniformity), glad I returned mine too.

No, it is not CE dimming that has improved the Samsungs. Go read CNET's reviews of even their tiny B360 model from Samsung. Even there they mention the tv has very good uniformity. Samsung is simply taking more care in making sure their tvs don't suffer from this issue as frequently these days. Sure, there are still some that do, but they seem to be the exception to the rule these days.

With Sony's models it seems to be the rule that they suffer from flashlighting and clouding. It seems some of you have simply decided for yourselves that the professional reviewers must be wrong in this case. Believe what you wish.


Quote:
Originally Posted by CEB II View Post

Flashlighting exists if the viewing conditions allow for its observation. Most folks, if they so desire, can minimize or eliminate them with tuning such as using Will's setup for dark room viewing. I have a well lighted viewing room so I haven't messed with the backlight level, contrast, and brightness to try to affect the one corner I have a few times seen a flashlight. OTOH, in real-world viewing, one seldom stares at a black screen image like you posted for an extended period of time. Unless you are on PAUSE, most video is fairly fast moving and unless you are staring at a flashlight affected corner the moment that corner gets dark enough to show it, you will likely miss it. That is not to say that some folks haven't received HDTVs that are defective and have very pronounced flashlighting even in normal viewing conditions.

As to clouding, the clouding I see is source dependent. For example, I can watch the Dark Knight from start to finish without ever seeing a cloud despite most of movie being dark, night scenes. OTOH, watching SyFy HD's presentation of old X-Files episodes produces obnoxious clouding in any night scenes. Same thing with some poorly re-mastered HD movies on Starz. So, the clouding I cited isn't related to the flashlighting issue.

As to which HDTV manufacturer has more problems with flashlighting, I believe it is model or series dependent. For example, all of the Samsung LED LCD HDTVs are reported to have flashlighting problems due to Samsung's poor execution of LED edge lighting or the limitations of that technology. Back in spring when I was following the B750 thread closely, there were several purchasers that complained of flashlighting and returned or exchanged their sets. I don't think the percentage of complainers in this thread is any higher than what I saw in the B750 thread.

BTW, studying your BD intro photo I only see flashlights in 3 corners, not 4.

These special "setups" you refer to are no more than people dimming their backlighting to the point of absurdity to try and hide the flashlighting problems the set was born with in manufacturing. Sorry, that is not a solution.

Also, your argument that "under certain conditions these problems exist" is kind of like being told "this car only has that obnoxious rattlling noise when you go above 65 mph. Just don't drive it above 65 mph and everything will be just fine."


No, that is not just fine for me, and it won't be for most people. The flashlighting and clouding issues are there the moment the tv is built. There is no fix after that. Only tweaks to try and cover it up.

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