Official LG "XXLH90" 240hz LED Owners Forum [NO PRICE TALK] - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 4728 Old 06-30-2009, 07:52 AM
 
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Originally Posted by BFJ 96 View Post

This is where the Toshiba shines IMO Silverfox, but in the ControlCal measurements, the LG did better in Color Gamut. Which for me was very surprising.

I think the ability to access the ISFcc Option within the LG's Service Menu is why the LG calibrated so well cause if you notice the LG was calibrated in ISF-1 (NIGHT) & ISF-2 (DAY)[IMG]http://***************/9/P/i.jpg[/IMG]

This is so true...Like a previous poster said can a normal user Calibrate the LG & I don't know if they can..most likely not.
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post #272 of 4728 Old 06-30-2009, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by raleigh29 View Post

Well I went and picked up the 55LH90 from BB last night in Raleigh, NC. The guys must of been really nice, as they pricematched the clevelandplasma price+shipping.

They didnt have any on display so I made them drag one out and hook it up to a BR source. I dont think you can go wrong on this panel if you have a room that cant be light controlled so need a matte panel.

They had it next to the the LH40 panel and the difference was night and day. That on top of the price they gave me convinced me this was the set for me.

Pictures incoming when I get home from work and get it set up.

Wow, I can't believe they price matched Clevelands price. Did they give you any grief about price matching because it is so low?
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post #273 of 4728 Old 06-30-2009, 08:03 AM
 
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Originally Posted by tomanystraydogs View Post

SHOOT-OUT RESULTS PDF

Wonder why the LH90 did so poorly with blacks, perhaps it was crushing them?

Doesn't look like it did very well with motion either.

Hi tomanystraydogs,

The LH90 did very well with blacks and I didn't see much crushing at all; where the LH90 suffered in this category was with the audience's subjective assessments. Look at the actual numbers for the calibration reports, though--in my opinion, they tell the real story. I was front and center, looking at the LG dead-on and I say its blacks were just fine.

Motion handling was another matter altogether. There it got slapped around a bunch. One aficionado hypothesized that the 240hz thing, with its frame interpolation, was causing problems. That seems plausible to me. Also, the LG uses a super-IPS panel, which has specific strengths and weaknesses. Its greatest strengths are reported to be color accuracy and viewing angle. Its greatest weakness is motion handling. So that might be a contributing factor, too.

Yours,

David

P.S.: I just saw that you noted the discrepancy between measured results and audience opinion. I advise trusting the measured results. The LG had better blacks, man; it just did. When the Toshiba rep enabled the auto-dimming AI for the Toshiba, sure, then its black became great, but everything else went to Hell. When no gimmicks were used, the LG had the best blacks I saw on ALL the LCDs. I think at least some of the audience response might have been affected by the rep's use of the auto-dimming AI (just a hunch).
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post #274 of 4728 Old 06-30-2009, 08:28 AM
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The Toshiba looked good until they showed a black screen with a small white box in the corner flashing. It seemed like 1/8 of the black screen around that corner turned grey, very few large local dimming zones I'm guessing?
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post #275 of 4728 Old 06-30-2009, 08:53 AM
 
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Originally Posted by ptscon View Post

The Toshiba looked good until they showed a black screen with a small white box in the corner flashing. It seemed like 1/8 of the black screen around that corner turned grey, very few large local dimming zones I'm guessing?

Hi ptscon,

I think that's probably right. I have a Samsung with too few local dimming zones and I get the same problem. Here I think we see the advantage of raw numbers. With 240 zones and >3,000 individual LEDs, the LG is able to minimize such artifacts.

Yours,

David
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post #276 of 4728 Old 06-30-2009, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by davidjschenk View Post

Hi ptscon,

I think that's probably right. I have a Samsung with too few local dimming zones and I get the same problem. Here I think we see the advantage of raw numbers. With 240 zones and >3,000 individual LEDs, the LG is able to minimize such artifacts.

Yours,

David

Hey Guys,

Thanks for posting all the great observations. You're really making me want to pick this up today!
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post #277 of 4728 Old 06-30-2009, 09:14 AM
 
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Hey Guys,

Thanks for posting all the great observations. You're really making me want to pick this up today!

Hi jldet5,

If you do, make sure you take a long hard look at it first to make sure it meets your specific needs. Speaking as someone who has fallen prey to hype before, I advise against letting the emotions of online excitement color your judgment.

That said, it is a great tv from what I saw. If you choose to get one, take a look at ClevelandPlasma's prices. Even if you buy from someone else, maybe you can get them to price match it (a down market does give the buyer certain advantages).

Yours,

David
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post #278 of 4728 Old 06-30-2009, 09:21 AM
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I got this thread recommended to me yesterday as I am looking for a new 55-60 inch tv. First of all -- thanks Paullouisj for starting the thread, thanks ltgary for chiming in as the second buyer and thanks flyers and South Side for asking some great questions and pushing this thread along.

With that said I went to my local BB yesterday and they had four sitting in the warehouse and none on the wall. They promised to have the tv up on the wall next to a Samsung 7100 by today -- I will drive straight there after work and start messing around with this tv. Now if I like it I will get it, but do have some questions about things to think off.

Obviously I would like the lower price, but I live in AK so matching isn't really possible.... Has anyone had success in getting BB match a price used in other BB stores? If I buy it I could do a price match for 30 days so might hope for a lowered price within that period...

Secondly -- BB up here offers calibration for $200 -- ISF trained person. Would you that owns the tv go for that or would you say with the user menu it is not worth the money? For those that does calibration -- if I use the readings from the shoot-out how hard would it be for a trained calibrator to get to those numbers?

Finally for those that say the tv is not good at handling motion -- how bad is it? I realize this is a subjective question, but I do plan on watching both hockey and football on this tv and I haven't found anything out there that I am happy with. If I turn 240hz to low or off would you say it is fine?
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post #279 of 4728 Old 06-30-2009, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Lindseybp View Post

Wow, I can't believe they price matched Clevelands price. Did they give you any grief about price matching because it is so low?

Here is what I did. I showed them the cleveland price on my Iphone. He went to his manager and they said no. I said what If I buy the super duper warranty from you guys? He went back to him and they agreed.

I was driving my small car at the time, so I went home, picked up my minivan and came back to get the TV. At that time, I just cancelled the warranty at the pickup place and got a credit back on my card LOL!
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post #280 of 4728 Old 06-30-2009, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidjschenk View Post

Hi jldet5,

If you do, make sure you take a long hard look at it first to make sure it meets your specific needs. Speaking as someone who has fallen prey to hype before, I advise against letting the emotions of online excitement color your judgment.

That said, it is a great tv from what I saw. If you choose to get one, take a look at ClevelandPlasma's prices. Even if you buy from someone else, maybe you can get them to price match it (a down market does give the buyer certain advantages).

Yours,

David

Thanks for the advice. I'm not going to rush but I think you guys are a better judge than I can be at the store. "They all look the same in the store till you get it home and calibrate it" is what I'm hearing and I believe it. I can't see the difference when I'm there.

Still between the 55SV670U, 55LH90, and 52B750. As soon as ABT has them I'll make a final decision and reward my local store for the display (and potential exchange).

Thanks again!
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post #281 of 4728 Old 06-30-2009, 09:36 AM
 
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Originally Posted by raleigh29 View Post

Here is what I did. I showed them the cleveland price on my Iphone. He went to his manager and they said no. I said what If I buy the super duper warranty from you guys? He went back to him and they agreed.

I was driving my small car at the time, so I went home, picked up my minivan and came back to get the TV. At that time, I just cancelled the warranty at the pickup place and got a credit back on my card LOL!

Slick!
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post #282 of 4728 Old 06-30-2009, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raleigh29 View Post

Here is what I did. I showed them the cleveland price on my Iphone. He went to his manager and they said no. I said what If I buy the super duper warranty from you guys? He went back to him and they agreed.
I was driving my small car at the time, so I went home, picked up my minivan and came back to get the TV. At that time, I just cancelled the warranty at the pickup place and got a credit back on my card LOL!

We would have sold you a warranty at cost for $100, no taxes to boot, and no pickup required. So actually they did not match Opps did not see you returned the warranty.
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post #283 of 4728 Old 06-30-2009, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raleigh29 View Post

Here is what I did. I showed them the cleveland price on my Iphone. He went to his manager and they said no. I said what If I buy the super duper warranty from you guys? He went back to him and they agreed.

I was driving my small car at the time, so I went home, picked up my minivan and came back to get the TV. At that time, I just cancelled the warranty at the pickup place and got a credit back on my card LOL!

Nice!
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post #284 of 4728 Old 06-30-2009, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raleigh29 View Post

Here is what I did. I showed them the cleveland price on my Iphone. He went to his manager and they said no. I said what If I buy the super duper warranty from you guys? He went back to him and they agreed.

I was driving my small car at the time, so I went home, picked up my minivan and came back to get the TV. At that time, I just cancelled the warranty at the pickup place and got a credit back on my card LOL!

You MUST be in the Used Car business ! Do you wear mirror sunglasses !

You get my "Best Con-Man Award of 2009"
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post #285 of 4728 Old 06-30-2009, 10:27 AM
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Has anyone here ever owned a TV by LG in the past? Any problems with getting them to service one if something happens? Customer service on par with everyone else?

Also, does anyone have the box dimensions of the 55LH90?

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post #286 of 4728 Old 06-30-2009, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Lindseybp View Post

Wow, I can't believe they price matched Clevelands price. Did they give you any grief about price matching because it is so low?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverfox1 View Post

You MUST be in the Used Car business ! Do you wear mirror sunglasses !

You get my "Best Con-Man Award of 2009"

Can I get a cool board name now? lol
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post #287 of 4728 Old 06-30-2009, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by davidjschenk View Post

Hi tomanystraydogs,

The LH90 did very well with blacks and I didn't see much crushing at all; where the LH90 suffered in this category was with the audience's subjective assessments. Look at the actual numbers for the calibration reports, though--in my opinion, they tell the real story. I was front and center, looking at the LG dead-on and I say its blacks were just fine.

Motion handling was another matter altogether. There it got slapped around a bunch. One aficionado hypothesized that the 240hz thing, with its frame interpolation, was causing problems. That seems plausible to me. Also, the LG uses a super-IPS panel, which has specific strengths and weaknesses. Its greatest strengths are reported to be color accuracy and viewing angle. Its greatest weakness is motion handling. So that might be a contributing factor, too.

Yours,

David

P.S.: I just saw that you noted the discrepancy between measured results and audience opinion. I advise trusting the measured results. The LG had better blacks, man; it just did. When the Toshiba rep enabled the auto-dimming AI for the Toshiba, sure, then its black became great, but everything else went to Hell. When no gimmicks were used, the LG had the best blacks I saw on ALL the LCDs. I think at least some of the audience response might have been affected by the rep's use of the auto-dimming AI (just a hunch).

These are my thoughts exactly. Considering LED's sweet spot for viewing, user opinions would have varied greatly. If there were 25 people in the room, I don't think there would have been adequate time for everyone to have a good view while they made their evaluations.

You mentioned motion. Was the motion on the LG bad because of the 240Hz acting up, or were there clearly blurring problems? I had an Olevia 747i at one time, and while the colors were amazing, the set definitely blurred a bit. The Olevia also uses an IPS panel. Odd, though, because I hadn't realized IPS panels were made in the 55" variety; I thought that size was exclusive to PVA technology.

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post #288 of 4728 Old 06-30-2009, 12:08 PM
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I'm interested in this set because of its matte screen. We have a very bright and open great room with massive windows and doors. We watch SciFi, BBC America, movies(especially classic) and I watch F1, NFL and some NASCAR - how does this set do with this type of material?

Thanks

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post #289 of 4728 Old 06-30-2009, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Yukon Trooper View Post

These are my thoughts exactly. Considering LED's sweet spot for viewing, user opinions would have varied greatly. If there were 25 people in the room, I don't think there would have been adequate time for everyone to have a good view while they made their evaluations.

You mentioned motion. Was the motion on the LG bad because of the 240Hz acting up, or were there clearly blurring problems? I had an Olevia 747i at one time, and while the colors were amazing, the set definitely blurred a bit. The Olevia also uses an IPS panel. Odd, though, because I hadn't realized IPS panels were made in the 55" variety; I thought that size was exclusive to PVA technology.

Yukon, IF the LG did exhibit Blurring problems during certain scenes then this is something to consider since this will occur on this LG regardless of whether it is ISF professionally calibrated or right out of the box. I realize the user can turn the 240hZ off but that should not be the alternative after spending your hard earned dollar.

Regards,
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post #290 of 4728 Old 06-30-2009, 12:55 PM
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Can't u knock down the 240hz effect to at least go back to 120hz since this set and the Toshiba don't do real 240hz? What you are really buying these sets for is the LD, the 240hz is just extra.
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post #291 of 4728 Old 06-30-2009, 01:08 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yukon Trooper View Post

You mentioned motion. Was the motion on the LG bad because of the 240Hz acting up, or were there clearly blurring problems? I had an Olevia 747i at one time, and while the colors were amazing, the set definitely blurred a bit. The Olevia also uses an IPS panel. Odd, though, because I hadn't realized IPS panels were made in the 55" variety; I thought that size was exclusive to PVA technology.

Hi Yukon Trooper,

I don't know why the motion handling was so rough. I think it was one of the guys from V.E. who said the 240hz motion smoothing software was a likely offender, which makes sense. Frame interpolation is a very unnatural way of handling motion and personally, I would expect to see artifacts from it. For several reasons, I never use it myself.

The super-IPS panel could be involved, though, which could be cause for worry for those who are very sensitive to LCD motion artifacts. I was surprised to read that they were using the IPS panels, just as you were, but they are:

http://www.lge.com/us/tv-audio-video...-tv-55LH90.jsp

Click on the tab and then open or download the downloadable .pdf specs sheet. There it is--a super-IPS panel!

Yours,

David

P.S.: Re. motion, does anyone know if LG has that backlight strobing trick that the other locally dimmed sets have? So long as brightness isn't hit too hard by it, I've found that to do some honest good, so if the LH90s have it, I'd love to know how well it works.

Can any of the owners and/or techies comment on this?
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post #292 of 4728 Old 06-30-2009, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raleigh29 View Post

I was driving my small car at the time, so I went home, picked up my minivan and came back to get the TV. At that time, I just cancelled the warranty at the pickup place and got a credit back on my card LOL!

wow why didn't think of that, I think you deserve a nobel peace prize for that.

Hey but didn't they say that the deal was off when you wanted to cancel the warranty?
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post #293 of 4728 Old 06-30-2009, 02:04 PM
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*Snip*

So you're saying the LG handled motion roughly opposed to showing motion blur?

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post #294 of 4728 Old 06-30-2009, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by raleigh29 View Post

Here is what I did. I showed them the cleveland price on my Iphone. He went to his manager and they said no. I said what If I buy the super duper warranty from you guys? He went back to him and they agreed.

I was driving my small car at the time, so I went home, picked up my minivan and came back to get the TV. At that time, I just cancelled the warranty at the pickup place and got a credit back on my card LOL!

Dumb sales guy or checkout clerk. I bought my last tv about 4 years ago and they knocked down the price with $400 if I bought the $400 warranty... I was like fine lets do it (thinking about cancelling the warranty if possible but being ok with the bundle if not possible). Well on the receipt it came out as price for the tv being tied to the warranty. Can't remember exactly how it was done, but they tied the discount to the warranty so I couldn't void the warranty out.

Good for you though. I ended up getting a new bulb for $250 so the warranty just cost me $150

Now how do you like the tv?
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post #295 of 4728 Old 06-30-2009, 02:21 PM
 
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So you're saying the LG handled motion roughly opposed to showing motion blur?

Hi Yukon Trooper,

No, what I'm talking about is its performance when Kevin Miller used a calibration pattern designed to reveal flaws in motion handling. It was a series of black and white boxes and bars filled with vertical, horizontal and diagonal stripes. The entire image slowly moved back and forth. Sets that handled motion well just showed the boxes moving around and nothing more. Sets that had problems had some of their boxes' striped patterns shimmer, wobble and/or sparkle. Out of all of them, the LG seemed to have the hardest time.

When just panning around various scenes on a regular DVD and when showing the Dark Knight BluRay, I don't think it was bad at all (but please note that I am not one of the people who are very sensitive to LCD motion artifacts). I didn't notice much motion blur or choppy motion.

Have I answered your question properly? This is what you're asking about, right?

Yours,

David
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post #296 of 4728 Old 06-30-2009, 02:28 PM
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Ok, finally!!! I got to see the LH90 in the flash. Man the 55 is a big set, mainly because the bezel is huge, and it's not a thin as I thought is would be.
Anyway, enough with the asthetics.
Popped in a BR, unfortunately it was a cartoon video, but in letter box format. The first thing I noticed was the blacks straight on were very good, but as soon as I went off angle they washed out. Now let me caveat that statement with the TV wasn't calibrated and it was bright environment so it could have been some reflection from the other TV's around it. The colors looked really good as was the detail. I did notice in an action sequence that the motion flow wasn't that good. There was no artifacts but you could tell that it didn't work that great.

Overall, I think for the price this is a very good set, not great but very good. Now, I'm off to search for the Toshiba SV670 to compare.
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post #297 of 4728 Old 06-30-2009, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidjschenk View Post

P.S.: Re. motion, does anyone know if LG has that backlight strobing trick that the other locally dimmed sets have? So long as brightness isn't hit too hard by it, I've found that to do some honest good, so if the LH90s have it, I'd love to know how well it works.

Can any of the owners and/or techies comment on this?


This is what I'm trying to say, the LG doesn't have true 240hz but is using backlight scanning technique to achieve a 240hz like effect, just like the Toshiba. Only the Sony and Samsung sets has 240 frame interpolation technique. Could the effect be turned off to get it down to 120hz and achieve better motion?
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post #298 of 4728 Old 06-30-2009, 02:35 PM
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I just called a Local BB in the Houston area and the manager told me they have 265 LG55LH90 units in the local warehouse and the purchasing consumer would get one within 2 days after the sell.

He stated they had NO plans of bringing any of the LG`s into any of the stores for display viewing and also stated that the LG55LH90 has actually been deleted.

I asked why it was deleted and he could not tell me why !

I wonder if BB has any contractural agreements with Samsung & Sony in certain regions of the Country to only display their sets and in return gets a better cut-rate wholesale price !

I have absolutely NO intention to purchase any set sight-unseen and then have the hassle of a return at my time & expense.

I personally would not buy anything from BB other then a refrigerator anyways but it would be nice to see this LG with my own two eyes before purchasing it from another more viable dealer without having to pay local sales taxes.

Regards,
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post #300 of 4728 Old 06-30-2009, 03:19 PM
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Ok here are the pictures as promised of the 55LH90. Let me preface this as my camera sucks balls and I am a terrible picture taker. The TV looks100 times better than what these pics look like. As you can see I have a large light source (Wall of windows) to the right of the TV so you can see the glare.

As a side note.. no lag noted in Rock Band 2 for Xbox360. I didnt have to adjust the calibration settings from null at all which is a good thing.

Enjoy from the "Best con man of 2009"

























raleigh29 is offline  
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