Official LG "XXLH90" 240hz LED Owners Forum [NO PRICE TALK] - Page 43 - AVS Forum
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post #1261 of 4726 Old 10-02-2009, 04:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glangford View Post

Well he loaded 3.13 and we tried a channel and it seemed just fine. Then we tried the torture test which was tnt which was a miserably half second or more off the last time he was here and it appeared to be in dead sync. COOL!!!!!!!!!

That's great preliminary news.

TNT HD is unwatchable for me due to its massive lipsync issues - it's 100 times worse than any other channel I get from Comcast.
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post #1262 of 4726 Old 10-02-2009, 05:47 PM
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So got my 55LH90 delivered and setup and have done some initial playing around with Picture Wizard. I found this as a post a couple of pages back, and from a novice -- whos just looking for the quick and dirty calibration settings, do these values seem reasonable?
===================================

Here are the settings I've come up with that look equally great for blu-Ray or HD-Cable:

Expert 2

backlight 67
contrast 90
brightness 53
h sharpness 60
v sharpness 60
color 53
tint 0
dynamic contrast Low
noise reduction Off
black level Low
real cinema Off
truemotion 240hz Off
color gamut Std
edge enhancer Off
white balance Medium


Marc, I find it kind of odd both your settings came out the same on the Horizontal and
Vertical Sharpness settings - recommend re-calibrating since usually one of the settings
is normally found in the lower 50's and the other, mid 60's. Stand about 3 feet from your
set when you do this alignment - once dead on, you should find the blooming near non-existent
and the viewing angle approaching 45 degrees from center to the left and right.
======================

Also can someone explain to me what acutally happens when TrueMotion 240 HZ is turned off. Does that mean its now running in 120HZ ?
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post #1263 of 4726 Old 10-02-2009, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glangford View Post

Well he loaded 3.13 and we tried a channel and it seemed just fine. Then we tried the torture test which was tnt which was a miserably half second or more off the last time he was here and it appeared to be in dead sync. COOL!!!!!!!!!

He's only been gone an hour or so, so it will take a few days of viewing all our popular channels to see how it works, and then try the dvd recorder and Oppo to make sure they weren't harmed by the update and I'll report back. But so far 'alles in Ordnung ist'.

Awesome news! It would really be nice if this was more of a user-operable fix, but I guess dealing with a tech to actually fix the issue would be worth it. Hmm, I might pick one of these up this weekend now. Thanks for the post & please keep us updated with the issue or non-issue.

PS-"alles in Ordnung" is fine-the "ist" is implied.

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post #1264 of 4726 Old 10-02-2009, 10:12 PM
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Looking for some help correcting a color issue. I am using the CNET settings except for a a few changes (my settings are notated):

http://forums.cnet.com/5208-19410_10...;forum-threads

Picture menu:
Aspect ratio: Just Size
Energy Saving: Off
Picture Mode: Expert 2
Backlight: 44---->50
Contrast: 90
Brightness: 54--->50
H Sharpness: 50
V Sharpness: 50
Color: 50
Tint: 0

--Expert control menu
Dynamic contrast: Off
Noise reduction: Off
Gamma: Low
Black level: Low
Real Cinema: On
TruMotion 240Hz: Off
Color Standard: HD [grayed out]
Color Gamut: Standard-->Wide
Edge Enhancer: Off
xvYCC: Auto [grayed out]
OPC: Off
Expert Pattern: Off [grayed out]
Color Filter: Off

White balance: Warm-->Medium
Method: 10 point IRE
Pattern: Outer
IRE: [see below]
Luminance: 137

-- 10 point IRE calibration
IRE: [Red, Green, Blue results, respectively, for each IRE point]
100 [13, -1, -50]
90 [16, -2, -46]
80 [18, -10, -45]
70 [15, -9, -39]
60 [8, -13, -35]
50 [6, -15, -33]
40 [-5, -22, -35]
30 [1, -16, -25]
20 [-10, -20, -24]
10 [-5, -10, -14]

Color management system
Red color: 0
Red tint: 0
Green color: 0
Green tint: -1
Blue color: 0
Blue tint: 0
Yellow color: 0
Yellow tint: -1
Cyan color: 0
Cyan tint: 0
Magenta color: 0
Magenta tint: -1


The issue I am seeing is a bit hard to explain. In an HD show shadows on white walls look a bit blue or purple. Sometimes black and white images show some white areas looking blue or yellow.

Any ideas?

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post #1265 of 4726 Old 10-03-2009, 04:32 AM
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Change color gamut to standard and white balance to warm to exactly match cnets settings for color and see if that helps.
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post #1266 of 4726 Old 10-03-2009, 04:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NVboy View Post

Awesome news! It would really be nice if this was more of a user-operable fix, but I guess dealing with a tech to actually fix the issue would be worth it. Hmm, I might pick one of these up this weekend now. Thanks for the post & please keep us updated with the issue or non-issue.

PS-"alles in Ordnung" is fine-the "ist" is implied.

I think it could have been user operable. I think the menu he accessed is operable through the service menu without the special service remote. But I could see someone loading the firmware and messing up the EDID reload. The tech actually didn't get it right at first.

Update: I don't think it would be user operable. The FW update actually renders the past method of accessing the service menu verbotten. The special service remote may have actually been required.
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post #1267 of 4726 Old 10-03-2009, 06:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RemoWilliams84 View Post

Can the ad be gotten to from the best buy website?

Or just pm me too, please.

Yes, just go to http://www.bestbuy.com and click on the "Weekly Ad" link near the top right area of the page...
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post #1268 of 4726 Old 10-03-2009, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudy View Post

Yes, just go to http://www.bestbuy.com and click on the "Weekly Ad" link near the top right area of the page...

I tried your link but the bb ad just shows 9/27 to 10/3. The next ad is not there, where does one find it ?
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post #1269 of 4726 Old 10-03-2009, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Element1 View Post

I tried your link but the bb ad just shows 9/27 to 10/3. The next ad is not there, where does one find it ?

It will be available tomorrow
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post #1270 of 4726 Old 10-03-2009, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feanor5503 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by glangford View Post

Well he loaded 3.13 and we tried a channel and it seemed just fine. Then we tried the torture test which was tnt which was a miserably half second or more off the last time he was here and it appeared to be in dead sync. COOL!!!!!!!!!

That's great preliminary news.

TNT HD is unwatchable for me due to its massive lipsync issues - it's 100 times worse than any other channel I get from Comcast.

While I have a different model just picked up in Sept (Plasma 50PQ30), it has the same audio lip sync issues.

I have FiOS, not Comcast, but the issues are on the same channels (TNT HD, certian shows on Hist HD), and a "slight" issue with my DVD player.

Bottom lines appears to be anything connected via HDMI, the TV (dvd player) has a problem decoding *some* audio streams, and thus the delay. Connected audio via RCA stereo, the TV has no problem with sync on any content.

Similarly, bypassing the TV and connecting audio (or digital audio via s/pdif or opt) from the cable box (dvd player) DIRECTLY to a home theater receiver, there is no sync issue.

Given the above that Glangford has upgraded his f/w and says TNT HD is perfect, my sole concern is was it a "kludge" fix, or a proper fix.

I'd thought I read in another thread that the fix was merely a "delay" of the video stream to sync it up to the audio.

If that's the case, I'd be concerned that the fix could break other channels/content that does NOT have any sync problems.

I'd like to hear more feedback on other channels, other external devices (dvd players) hooked up via HDMI to see if the fix is true. My TV feeds the opt audio out to the home theater. I'd like to hear if anyone has a similar setup, and if audio "passed-thru" the TV remains in sync after the f/w upgrade. And/Or, if it remains in sync with a direct hookup to the HT from the cable box/dvd player.

I'm not certain there's any (easy) way to back out of a f/w upgrade (atlleast on my set). It seems LG has changed the method to enter the service menu, and no one knows what it is, so I'd be wary of applying any fix without hearing more feedback first.
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post #1271 of 4726 Old 10-03-2009, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alster View Post

While I have a different model just picked up in Sept (Plasma 50PQ30), it has the same audio lip sync issues.

I have FiOS, not Comcast, but the issues are on the same channels (TNT HD, certian shows on Hist HD), and a "slight" issue with my DVD player.

Bottom lines appears to be anything connected via HDMI, the TV (dvd player) has a problem decoding *some* audio streams, and thus the delay. Connected audio via RCA stereo, the TV has no problem with sync on any content.

Similarly, bypassing the TV and connecting audio (or digital audio via s/pdif or opt) from the cable box (dvd player) DIRECTLY to a home theater receiver, there is no sync issue.

Given the above that Glangford has upgraded his f/w and says TNT HD is perfect, my sole concern is was it a "kludge" fix, or a proper fix.

I'd thought I read in another thread that the fix was merely a "delay" of the video stream to sync it up to the audio.

If that's the case, I'd be concerned that the fix could break other channels/content that does NOT have any sync problems.

I'd like to hear more feedback on other channels, other external devices (dvd players) hooked up via HDMI to see if the fix is true. My TV feeds the opt audio out to the home theater. I'd like to hear if anyone has a similar setup, and if audio "passed-thru" the TV remains in sync after the f/w upgrade. And/Or, if it remains in sync with a direct hookup to the HT from the cable box/dvd player.

I'm not certain there's any (easy) way to back out of a f/w upgrade (atlleast on my set). It seems LG has changed the method to enter the service menu, and no one knows what it is, so I'd be wary of applying any fix without hearing more feedback first.

Yes since the update accessing the service menu to tell about the sw version is no longer valid. I used to hold the tv and remote menu and it would pop up, no longer.

Today, I didn't think TNT was that perfect, everything else seems fine though. I'll keep watching for a few days and report back. It was hard to tell about TNT, I had to keep it down with my wife taking a nap and couldn't hear it real good anyway.

Update: TNT seems just fine.
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post #1272 of 4726 Old 10-03-2009, 03:30 PM
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I purchased a 55 LH90 yesterday after several months of indecision between a Plasma and LCD. One thing I learned is if you buy online at BB your 30 day return starts when the set arrives BUT if you buy in store the 30 day return starts as soon as you pay even if you have to wait 10 days to get it delivered. Talk about a inconsistent policy Naturally no online delivery to my Zip so I got it in store and have to wait till next Friday for delivery.Now I have my fingers crossed that the Rumored sale tomorrow will be good in my Zip Code.Another plus no delivery charge to my house because of an in store promotional.
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post #1273 of 4726 Old 10-03-2009, 04:43 PM
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Alright my 55' has arrived. I went right into the SM to check my firmware. I have the 3.04 firmware. I tried to adjust the lip sync in SM to 0 no luck.

I also by mistake moved the SYNC Adjust (section 9) for all inputs not realizing that's more for the TV syncing when changing inputs. Could some please post the DEFAULT Settings so I can put them back-in. It would be appreciated
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post #1274 of 4726 Old 10-03-2009, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alster View Post

While I have a different model just picked up in Sept (Plasma 50PQ30), it has the same audio lip sync issues.

I have FiOS, not Comcast, but the issues are on the same channels (TNT HD, certian shows on Hist HD), and a "slight" issue with my DVD player.

Bottom lines appears to be anything connected via HDMI, the TV (dvd player) has a problem decoding *some* audio streams, and thus the delay. Connected audio via RCA stereo, the TV has no problem with sync on any content.

Similarly, bypassing the TV and connecting audio (or digital audio via s/pdif or opt) from the cable box (dvd player) DIRECTLY to a home theater receiver, there is no sync issue.

Given the above that Glangford has upgraded his f/w and says TNT HD is perfect, my sole concern is was it a "kludge" fix, or a proper fix.

I'd thought I read in another thread that the fix was merely a "delay" of the video stream to sync it up to the audio.

If that's the case, I'd be concerned that the fix could break other channels/content that does NOT have any sync problems.

I'd like to hear more feedback on other channels, other external devices (dvd players) hooked up via HDMI to see if the fix is true. My TV feeds the opt audio out to the home theater. I'd like to hear if anyone has a similar setup, and if audio "passed-thru" the TV remains in sync after the f/w upgrade. And/Or, if it remains in sync with a direct hookup to the HT from the cable box/dvd player.

I'm not certain there's any (easy) way to back out of a f/w upgrade (atlleast on my set). It seems LG has changed the method to enter the service menu, and no one knows what it is, so I'd be wary of applying any fix without hearing more feedback first.

I don't believe this was a 'kludge fix'. When I spoke with LG the first time on this issue, I asked them why this was a problem with hdmi on cable boxes and dvd and bluray were fine. She said it was an hdmi compatibility issue. In addition talking to the tech about the FW update he thought the real key to it was the EDID update. Here is what I found on a long archived avsforum post:

"In short, it's a small ROM chip that resides in devices like TV, and states what it's audio & video capabilities are. It contains information such as a TV's aspect ratio, screen size, native resolution, supported video resolutions, and supported audio formats. It's basically an ID card that says what it can do so that other devices that plug into it can make sure that they send audio & video data that will be sure to be supported. In other words, it allows us to eliminate the blank screen situation or blank/static audio that can result from such incompatibility."

In short, it wasn't just an added delay as that would have harmed some stations in SD which never were a problem. It appears to have gotten to the root of the hdmi compatibility problem. All my stations seem just fine. Even TNT.

The firmware has changed how the service menu is accessed. It is no longer assessable as before.
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post #1275 of 4726 Old 10-04-2009, 04:32 AM
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Your guys were right about BB - since I'm within the 30 day Price Protection Period - will go for the rebate on my 55LH90 later today - nice birthday present - thanks BB! Still waiting for the CurtPalme calibrator, in the meantime will have to find a cheapie laptop to install the Calman calibration software on, don't feel like carting the old desktop around. Checkout Sears as well, but they only show the 47LH90.
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post #1276 of 4726 Old 10-04-2009, 08:23 AM
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Well just checked BB site and no 55LH90's at any store in my region, and of course the usual "Not available for delivery in your area" message that seems to appear anytime a deep discount is on an item....
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post #1277 of 4726 Old 10-04-2009, 09:06 AM
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I just took my LG 37LH20 set back to Best Buy. As well as all the lipsynch crap, I had been noticing a vertical shadow near the middle of the screen during hockey and soccer games when the camera moved quickly. My 30 days were about to run out, and I didn't want to be stuck with depending on LG to sort out these problems.

I will call LG Support and tell them they don't need to send me the usb stick with the firmware update anymore (if they were ever going to).
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post #1278 of 4726 Old 10-04-2009, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p5browne View Post

Your guys were right about BB - since I'm within the 30 day Price Protection Period - will go for the rebate on my 55LH90 later today - nice birthday present - thanks BB! Still waiting for the CurtPalme calibrator, in the meantime will have to find a cheapie laptop to install the Calman calibration software on, don't feel like carting the old desktop around. Checkout Sears as well, but they only show the 47LH90.

I went and got my $220ish back a few hours ago Makes the TV an even better bargain!
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post #1279 of 4726 Old 10-04-2009, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NETPCTECH View Post

*****Now is the time to buy an LH90!!!

According BB ads for next week (10/4-10/10), these tvs will be at their lowest price level ever. I will be at BB Sunday morning to get mine before they are all gone. Just search the net for next weeks ad. You will not be disappointed.

Thank you again for bringing this to our attention! I called Best Buy customer service today, and within 10 minutes I was told that the credit would be applied to my card within 7 to 10 days!

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post #1280 of 4726 Old 10-04-2009, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick_WI View Post

Looking for some help correcting a color issue. I am using the CNET settings except for a a few changes (my settings are notated):

http://forums.cnet.com/5208-19410_10...;forum-threads

Picture menu:
Aspect ratio: Just Size
Energy Saving: Off
Picture Mode: Expert 2
Backlight: 44---->50
Contrast: 90
Brightness: 54--->50
H Sharpness: 50
V Sharpness: 50
Color: 50
Tint: 0

--Expert control menu
Dynamic contrast: Off
Noise reduction: Off
Gamma: Low
Black level: Low
Real Cinema: On
TruMotion 240Hz: Off
Color Standard: HD [grayed out]
Color Gamut: Standard-->Wide
Edge Enhancer: Off
xvYCC: Auto [grayed out]
OPC: Off
Expert Pattern: Off [grayed out]
Color Filter: Off

White balance: Warm-->Medium
Method: 10 point IRE
Pattern: Outer
IRE: [see below]
Luminance: 137

-- 10 point IRE calibration
IRE: [Red, Green, Blue results, respectively, for each IRE point]
100 [13, -1, -50]
90 [16, -2, -46]
80 [18, -10, -45]
70 [15, -9, -39]
60 [8, -13, -35]
50 [6, -15, -33]
40 [-5, -22, -35]
30 [1, -16, -25]
20 [-10, -20, -24]
10 [-5, -10, -14]

Color management system
Red color: 0
Red tint: 0
Green color: 0
Green tint: -1
Blue color: 0
Blue tint: 0
Yellow color: 0
Yellow tint: -1
Cyan color: 0
Cyan tint: 0
Magenta color: 0
Magenta tint: -1


The issue I am seeing is a bit hard to explain. In an HD show shadows on white walls look a bit blue or purple. Sometimes black and white images show some white areas looking blue or yellow.

Any ideas?

I ended up scrappingthe CNET settings. They looked too warm, even with the white balance set to medium or cool. I changed the setting sof Expert 1 to my preferences without touching the 10 point IRE.

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post #1281 of 4726 Old 10-04-2009, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glangford View Post

I don't believe this was a 'kludge fix'. When I spoke with LG the first time on this issue, I asked them why this was a problem with hdmi on cable boxes and dvd and bluray were fine. She said it was an hdmi compatibility issue. In addition talking to the tech about the FW update he thought the real key to it was the EDID update. Here is what I found on a long archived avsforum post:

Not to disagree on your main point . But nothing in the explanation they gave tells us what they really fixed. EDID is a factor whether the TV is receiving a signal from Blu-ray player or settop box. As you noted in the explanation, it simply tells the source what its capabilities are and hopefully that is no different whether one box is talking to it vs another. Indeed, the TV has no idea that one source is a BD player and another a cable box, etc. So it could give a different answer even if it could.

The difference between BD and other sources is that the former is always progressive content. So it goes through simpler (or no) processing. Whereas broadcast video, especially as you change channels, is always changing from proper 1080i, to improper 1080i, to 720p, etc. The level of video processing varies (for conversion to 1080p panel that it has) and with it, the pipeline delay. As the pipeline delay changes, they need to add/subtract the appropriate amount of delay for audio. I suspect if they have fixed something, it is in this area.

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post #1282 of 4726 Old 10-04-2009, 01:30 PM
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If anyone is still interested this week in the 47LH90...ABT Electronics has the price lower than S---s and BB, plus no sales tax, free shipping, a 30 day price match guarantee, AND, a 30-day no hassle return policy. I got mine there last week and it is on the way. They are one of the best on-line. I paid about $62 more for mine last week which I thought was the lowest price I would see. But, since it is $62 lower this week, they are giving me that amount back on my card.

BB and s---s are good choice I am sure, but with tax and such, it comes out higher.
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post #1283 of 4726 Old 10-04-2009, 03:21 PM
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I was at my local BB this morning when they opened to get my price match. This was equal to about 32 percent less the I had paid just two days ago.I was really worried that this sale might not be available in my area.Now I'am really stoked any can hardly wait for my set to arrive this coming Friday.
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post #1284 of 4726 Old 10-04-2009, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bama29 View Post

Well just checked BB site and no 55LH90's at any store in my region, and of course the usual "Not available for delivery in your area" message that seems to appear anytime a deep discount is on an item....

There are other places that have that price
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post #1285 of 4726 Old 10-04-2009, 05:11 PM
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Here are some uncalibrated shots of I am Legend BR:









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post #1286 of 4726 Old 10-04-2009, 05:12 PM
 
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loving those pictures!!!
makes me jealous
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post #1287 of 4726 Old 10-04-2009, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

Not to disagree on your main point . But nothing in the explanation they gave tells us what they really fixed. EDID is a factor whether the TV is receiving a signal from Blu-ray player or settop box. As you noted in the explanation, it simply tells the source what its capabilities are and hopefully that is no different whether one box is talking to it vs another. Indeed, the TV has no idea that one source is a BD player and another a cable box, etc. So it could give a different answer even if it could.

The difference between BD and other sources is that the former is always progressive content. So it goes through simpler (or no) processing. Whereas broadcast video, especially as you change channels, is always changing from proper 1080i, to improper 1080i, to 720p, etc. The level of video processing varies (for conversion to 1080p panel that it has) and with it, the pipeline delay. As the pipeline delay changes, they need to add/subtract the appropriate amount of delay for audio. I suspect if they have fixed something, it is in this area.

You obviously know more about this than I do, so I'll bow to your wisdom, all I can say is that the firmware did fix the problem and it wasn't a simple offset suggested by alster that screws up other stuff. The lead tech from the company lg had come do the service thought the edid update was a factor in it as well. Beyond that, my thoughts are pure conjecture.
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post #1288 of 4726 Old 10-04-2009, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by glangford View Post

You obviously know more about this than I do, so I'll bow to your wisdom, all I can say is that the firmware did fix the problem and it wasn't a simple offset suggested by alster that screws up other stuff. The lead tech from the company lg had come do the service thought the edid update was a factor in it as well.

I'm happy to hear that all seems OK to you now.

Can I ask, do you have a HT setup as well with this set? If so, do you pass the digital audio to it from the TV's optical output? or does the audio go directly to the HT from the STB/DVD player?

I would be most curious about the latter "direct" situation. In that, is everything still in sync as it should be on various channels/content or from the DVD player (and as it always was, before any fw/EDID upgrades).

I have both configurations setup so I can easily test both to spot any differences in audio sync timings.
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post #1289 of 4726 Old 10-04-2009, 06:26 PM
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My 55LH90 has a build date of July with Firmware 3.07. The 42LH90 I purchased has a build date of August. No problem getting into the Service Menu on the 55LH90, but no way Josee on the 42LH90. So from what I've been reading, anything newer than the 3.07 you can no longer access the Service Menu? Anyone who has had a techie visit been told about a new way to access the Service Menu? Have put this question to my LG contact in service and hope to get a reply Monday.
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post #1290 of 4726 Old 10-05-2009, 04:34 AM
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Originally Posted by alster View Post

I'm happy to hear that all seems OK to you now.

Can I ask, do you have a HT setup as well with this set? If so, do you pass the digital audio to it from the TV's optical output? or does the audio go directly to the HT from the STB/DVD player?

I would be most curious about the latter "direct" situation. In that, is everything still in sync as it should be on various channels/content or from the DVD player (and as it always was, before any fw/EDID upgrades).

I have both configurations setup so I can easily test both to spot any differences in audio sync timings.

My set up is as follows:

I connect the cable box directly to the TV via hdmi. It is totally isolated from the AVR.

I have an upconverting dvd recorder/player that gets a feed from the cable box and goes directly to the tv via hdmi. Also totally separate from the AVR.

The Oppo BDP is the only component that uses the Denon AVR. I can either uses the denon and external speakers with the Oppo BDP or in standby I can do pass through direct to the TV.

This set up was predicated on the fact that my wife wanted a simple set up for watching TV first. She wants to watch TV with one remote, the cable box remote (works tv volume, on/off). We only use the Denon and external speakers for movies off the Oppo, which doubles as a cd player. Also running only a 2.0 set up with Paradigm Studio 10 speakers. (Awesome!).
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