KDL-XBR4 Half the Screen Dark with Slow Pixel Refresh – All inputs - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 160 Old 10-28-2009, 11:01 AM
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Great write up OnlyTono!

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post #32 of 160 Old 10-28-2009, 01:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny42 View Post

Absolutely magnificent post, OnlyTono!

Thx!

bye
Benny

Quote:
Originally Posted by bpmurr View Post

Great write up OnlyTono!

Thank you - i'm just sorry it took so long for me to get post this up.

I guess the good thing is that since it took me a momth to get this posted, i can now vouche for the TV still working a momth later after the fix

The one part i just didn't have time to cover here was the removal of all the outer panals and some other key part to get to the LCD screen frame. it may help to get a copy of the service manual, I was able to find an actual service manual online at this site:
http://www.free-service-manuals.com/

Even thought the name implies they are free - It's like 5 bucks for a one month membership(a fair price IMHO). thay have the Service manual for the XBR4/5. The manual does not cover this particulr proceedure, but it will assist in taking that TV apart.
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post #33 of 160 Old 10-28-2009, 10:48 PM
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I'll have to give you an A+ for effort and creativity on this one. You are correct when you say this may not work and there is not guarantee on how long it will last.

Tab bonding is performed by using a heat-activated glue that contains tiny steel balls. The steel balls are what make the electrical contact between the tabs on the flex cable and the panel. The steel balls are small enough to prevent a short circuit between the tabs so the glue is simply smeared across the tabs. A steel bar heated with RF energy heats the bar and activates the glue.

This is all done with 2 cameras and a monitor to align the flex cable tabs to the panel tabs. A computer program handles the temperature and duration of the heating of the glue.

What you are demonstrating is a band aid solution but I suppose that if one has the time and aptitude to perform this, what do they have to lose? I've been able to fix this with a pen torch and a large flat-blade screwdriver to re-bond the glue but that was at a point where I had too much time on my hands :-)
MacProTX likes this.

Those who think they know everything annoy those of us who do.
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post #34 of 160 Old 12-03-2009, 04:32 PM
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How well is this holding up? I'm at the point that it is something i will attempt rather than toss all that $$ .
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post #35 of 160 Old 12-04-2009, 05:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NipRing View Post

How well is this holding up? I'm at the point that it is something i will attempt rather than toss all that $$ .

So far so good

It's certainly worth a shot - especially if the quotes you got to fix the TV where the same as mine - which was basically replacing the panel, and where in the cost range of simply buying a new TV.

I can't promise this fix will work, or even hold up - but mine is still going strong after 2.5 months so far and it gets used quite bit too

Good luck and take it slow
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post #36 of 160 Old 12-06-2009, 06:23 PM
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OnlyTono check your pm box.
Thanks
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post #37 of 160 Old 12-07-2009, 06:15 PM
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Whoooooooohoooooooo! It worked!!!! OnlyTono I could
freakin kiss you!! Thank you so much! You saved me a ton of $$$.
I took a short video and will post it in a little while. Just something that might help out others in the same boat.
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post #38 of 160 Old 12-07-2009, 08:09 PM
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Very cool. Great explanation/photos.
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post #39 of 160 Old 12-07-2009, 10:38 PM
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&fs=1" width="644" height="390">PG9iamVjdCB3aWR0aD0iNDI1IiBoZWlnaHQ9IjM0NCI+PHBhcmFtIG5hbWU9Im1vdmllIiB2YWx1ZT0iaHR0cDovL3d3dy55b3V0dWJlLmNvbS92L3ZDRXhsU25HNHlZJmFtcDtobD1lbl9VUyZhbXA7ZnM9MSZhbXA7Ij48L3BhcmFtPjxwYXJhbSBuYW1lPSJhbGxvd0Z1bGxTY3JlZW4iIHZhbHVlPSJ0cnVlIj48L3BhcmFtPjxwYXJhbSBuYW1lPSJhbGxvd3NjcmlwdGFjY2VzcyIgdmFsdWU9ImFsd2F5cyI+PC9wYXJhbT48ZW1iZWQgc3JjPSJodHRwOi8vd3d3LnlvdXR1YmUuY29tL3YvdkNFeGxTbkc0eVkmYW1wO2hsPWVuX1VTJmFtcDtmcz0xJmFtcDsiIHR5cGU9ImFwcGxpY2F0aW9uL3gtc2hvY2t3YXZlLWZsYXNoIiBhbGxvd3NjcmlwdGFjY2Vzcz0iYWx3YXlzIiBhbGxvd2Z1bGxzY3JlZW49InRydWUiIHdpZHRoPSI0MjUiIGhlaWdodD0iMzQ0Ij48L2VtYmVkPjwvb2JqZWN0Pg==&fs=1" />[ATTN POSTER: YouTube Insert Error: Something went wrong. Please make sure you added the video correctly. Click here to see how YouTube videos should be embedded. There could also be a technical issue that's not your fault. Click 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" target="_blank">here to view the video on YouTube's site. If this link doesn't work, you did something wrong.]
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post #40 of 160 Old 12-08-2009, 05:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NipRing View Post

Whoooooooohoooooooo! It worked!!!! OnlyTono I could
freakin kiss you!! Thank you so much! You saved me a ton of $$$.
I took a short video and will post it in a little while. Just something that might help out others in the same boat.

That’s awesome – I’m glad to know my post helped someone. The video is perfect and just what this post needed. In fact, I added it to the bottom of the original post so that nobody misses it.
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post #41 of 160 Old 12-08-2009, 09:13 AM
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We all are proud of you.

Wow great! Hope I Do not have to go through this with my XBR8 lol. I'll look back here now
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post #42 of 160 Old 12-08-2009, 10:17 AM
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I removed very minimal circuit boards! Other than the plastic surround pieces, the top and bottom metal framing, the vertical wall mount brackets, you need to remove the speakers, fans, aux input on the side of the tv, the power/vol/chan plate (which you will have to plug 1 wire back to it for testing the tv) and the plate that hold the power jack. Hook up the power back into the correct circuit board (without plugging into the wall first, plug the power cord into the tv power plug because its very hard to get at under the tv when its on its back). What i did was place a box under each side of the tv where the speakers would be so that no components are carrying the weight of the tv. Also before you put it on its back remember to plug in what video cable your using for your source. i also wrapped the long metal plate that hold the power jack with a towel just because i was nervous. Plug the pow/vol/chan plate in with the one wire. I turned on my source, plugged the tv power into the wall outlet and then turned on the tv by pushing the power button on the plate.

One other precaution i took was that, while most things you disconnect are with a plastic connector, the aux hdmi is not, its an exposed metal connector. So i wrapped that with electrical tape.

Good luck.
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post #43 of 160 Old 12-08-2009, 12:13 PM
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Actually i couldnt find the same ones he used. I just used some i found at ace hardware. They were 1/2" x 1/2" by 5/16" tall and i shaved about a weak 1/8" off. I did go through a lot of trial an error when figuring out exactly how thick the bumps need to be. With each trial make sure you screw down at least a third of the screws. Some of my trials may have been successful had i had more screws in the metal lcd surround. The first few times i only screwed the two closest screws, but it wasnt until i put one in another next corner did i see it work right.

As for heat, well i dont know whats gonna happen. I watched a few blu-rays last night and all seems well. Only time will tell. I will update if something happens.

Bill
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post #44 of 160 Old 12-09-2009, 06:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brennanrp View Post

Thanks so much NipRing. Did you use the same plastic bumpons as OnlyTono? I would think these would melt because it gets so hot!

It does get pretty warm in there, but probably not enough to actually melt the bumpons. If you wanted to be really safe though, you might try and find some pure silicone bumpons which should be good for higher temps than regular plastic.

The ones I bought where just the generic brand over at my local hardware store. They where soft and rubbery, but I don't remember if they where actually silicone or not.
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post #45 of 160 Old 12-16-2009, 11:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OnlyTono View Post

It does get pretty warm in there, but probably not enough to actually melt the bumpons. If you wanted to be really safe though, you might try and find some pure silicone bumpons which should be good for higher temps than regular plastic.

The ones I bought where just the generic brand over at my local hardware store. They where soft and rubbery, but I don't remember if they where actually silicone or not.

how is the TV? still good?
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post #46 of 160 Old 12-17-2009, 12:09 AM
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Mine's working like a champ!
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post #47 of 160 Old 12-17-2009, 05:32 AM - Thread Starter
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how is the TV? still good?

So far so good.
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post #48 of 160 Old 12-18-2009, 04:10 AM
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Onlytono's great write up has links to some critically important images..Images that are NOT displaying in this topic!!

Tried to view them from 2 separate locations/machines/ip addresses, no go, just got the dreaded red x where each image should be...

Anyone know what gives?


Pete
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post #49 of 160 Old 12-18-2009, 05:56 AM - Thread Starter
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ogoun,
check your pm box.
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post #50 of 160 Old 12-18-2009, 02:18 PM
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I fixed mine! its working fine "so far"
thanks.
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post #51 of 160 Old 12-18-2009, 02:38 PM
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Great thread!
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post #52 of 160 Old 12-18-2009, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gokhan View Post

I fixed mine! its working fine "so far"
thanks.

Awesome!
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post #53 of 160 Old 12-18-2009, 04:46 PM
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After finished have left two more screws :P
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post #54 of 160 Old 12-18-2009, 04:55 PM
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Haha, i had 1!
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post #55 of 160 Old 12-18-2009, 05:25 PM
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Hi,
I was lucky enough to inherit an xbr4 with this fault a while ago, and so I have been spending a bit of time looking into the cause of the fault.

After some rather in depth analysis on the test bench, it looks like the problem is not with the flex interconnect's bonding to the panel, but rather with the connecting bonds between the flex interconnects and the long, narrow semiconductor chip that is mounted directly on the flex interconnect, about halfway between the LCD end and the PCB end. This chip looks like it might be a signal line termination or impedance matching network, and gets quite hot during operation (the design of the big metal LCD retaining frame includes a series of long depressions along the top section that push against the flex interconnects where these chips are located, to provide some not very effective heatsinking).
The heat from these chips, combined with poor heatsinking, and the structure of the LCD frame appear to be the root cause of these failures.

I am working on a repair method, though it will likely be something ad-hoc, and not something that could be classed as a "permament" fix. Still, if it can resurrect even some of these panels, then I think it is worth a shot.


Cheers,

Pete
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post #56 of 160 Old 12-19-2009, 12:19 AM
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Hey guys.
Here is the question.
I have two TVs, one sony KDL-XBR4 46" full hd, second one is lg 42" 720p.. lg is fine, has no problem but sony had problem but not anymore, I have to sell at least one tv but i dunno which one should I keep? im not sure what will be happened after few months with sony because it looks like temporary solution
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post #57 of 160 Old 12-19-2009, 06:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gokhan View Post

After finished have left two more screws :P

Quote:
Originally Posted by NipRing View Post

Haha, i had 1!

LOL - I have atleast 2, maybe 3 screws left over.
They looked like the ones used to secure the front plastice bezel , and since that peice had a ton of screws holding it on, i figured it would't miss a few

I went over the whole thing a few times looking for empty screw wholes but could never find them

Quote:
Originally Posted by gokhan View Post

Hey guys.
Here is the question.
I have two TVs, one sony KDL-XBR4 46" full hd, second one is lg 42" 720p.. lg is fine, has no problem but sony had problem but not anymore, I have to sell at least one tv but i dunno which one should I keep? im not sure what will be happened after few months with sony because it looks like temporary solution

that's a tough one - i'd almost be inclined to say keep the LG, since it has no known issues yet.
Or - you could sell the LG (since it has no known issues), save your money until the sony fails again, and then buy a new TV
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post #58 of 160 Old 12-19-2009, 08:03 AM
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I'm glad I found this thread. Is this the same issue one of buddies is having?

From VFDC forums

Quote:


Looks like my Bravia might be done for and it's only 1.5 years old Keep in mind that these lines you see filled up the whole screen from wall to wall and were very vibrant in color... mostly yellow, but there was some red lines and a few other various colors. I took this picture about 6 hours later from when the problem first occurred. Anyone familiar with this? Am I done for or can this be fixed?



"You may know all them styles, brother...But.....can you groove?"
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post #59 of 160 Old 12-21-2009, 02:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ogoun View Post


After some rather in depth analysis on the test bench, it looks like the problem is not with the flex interconnect's bonding to the panel, but rather with the connecting bonds between the flex interconnects and the long, narrow semiconductor chip that is mounted directly on the flex interconnect, about halfway between the LCD end and the PCB end. This chip looks like it might be a signal line termination or impedance matching network, and gets quite hot during operation (the design of the big metal LCD retaining frame includes a series of long depressions along the top section that push against the flex interconnects where these chips are located, to provide some not very effective heatsinking).

Looks like these chips are the actual gate driver chips, according to one of Samsung's patents... I guess that explains the heat.

Now I just need to find out a bit more about "Chip On (flex pcb) Board mounting techniques and failure modes...

Cheers,

Pete
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post #60 of 160 Old 12-21-2009, 06:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShinobiFist View Post

I'm glad I found this thread. Is this the same issue one of buddies is having?

Im not sure if your friend's TV has the same issue - it doesnt really look like the same to me. Not sure if the solution in this thread would help that kind of defect.

For a good demonstration of what the issue we've been having looks like - check out NipRing video a few posts up.
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