Good 32" 1080P IPS TVs suitable for use as a computer monitor? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 13 Old 11-04-2009, 05:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Life story:
Hi, about 5 months ago I bought an LG 32LH40 on sale at Best Buy for $100 or so off. I found it to be an excellent display in general but it had some really nasty smearing of primary colors, red and blue especially. For instance, in the Lagom LCD test's Contrast screen, all the shades of red and blue would blur into each other slightly, about 3 or so pixels around where there should have been a sharp border between the colors.

As I would like to do some amateur graphic design work with the display, this was totally unacceptable. What really ticked me off was that this was obviously just some kind of "image enhancement" that couldn't be disabled. Displaying sharp color isn't rocket science, and this was a reasonably high-end set. So, unfortunately, I had to take it back.

Now, months later, Dell had a sale on a 32" Philips display, model 32PFL6704D. However, fate has it in for me... there seems to be a known compatibility issue between Philips TV sets and certain Radeon and Geforce cards, and I own one. A 4890, actually.

The problem goes like this: if you plug in the HDMI cable while the TV is off, the TV still passively communicates with the computer and tells the computer what it is, what its capabilities are, etc. Everything works fine - until I try to turn it on. As soon as I turn it on, something goes awry and the TV and computer give each other the silent treatment. It's not shown in any way in Catalyst Control Panel and Windows doesn't detect it either. Turn the TV back off, and still nothing. Unplug the HDMI, plug it back in, suddenly everything's fine again. But turn the TV back on? No signal.

I've visted a lot of forums and done a lot of googling, but it seems there's no clear consensus on what exactly is causing the problem. Some people have said that it's a Windows 7 issue, but I just reinstalled Vista on a secondary hard drive, and as soon as I install the video drivers, "NO SIGNAL". Other people have said that using a third-party DVI to HDMI connector solved the problem, but this sounds pretty much like bogus to me. It's a digital signal, so an adapter is an adapter is an adapter... that's my understanding. I think it's probably some kind of HDCP thing, since apparently Windows XP works perfectly fine and it doesn't use any of that nonsense.

If I didn't say this before, it works perfectly fine in BIOS and post. If you just install the OS without any ATI drivers, the TV works fine, but you can't run it at 1080p, so it's pointless. Just for fun I tried using component video ouptut - it works perfectly. But only at 30hz, as you'd expect, and there are all the telltale signs of an analog connection. Sadly, I can't even provide a review of the set before I send it back, since I am still completely in the dark about its capabilities. I wish I could run it at 1080p for just a few minutes and see what it's really capable of.

From what I could see, the TV had a couple of problems independent of my inability to see it at its native resolution. First, the available controls were very spartan, with only brightness, contrast, color, and sharpness that could be adjusted with any detail. You have to enter the service menu to adjust individual color channels. Settings that I've seen other people mention and which are mentioned in the manual aren't anywhere to be found, leading me to believe they were removed in a firmware update perhaps? I don't really know. Basically I think this TV will be great for nursing homes. The other problem I was able to see was some amount of... I'm not sure what to call it... but when I entered my bios setup, it was like the letters on the screen blurred horizontally. This was not, in my opinion, an example of the TV attempting to enhance contrast... but I'm not an expert with TVs.

So... if you're still reading this, you can probably tell I'm getting frustrated with the depth of TV manufacturers' incompetence when it comes to making their sets PC compatible. I suppose it's a protection game - they can sell their 24" displays for the same as a 32" display as long as they strip out the TV tuner, most of the inputs, and call it a "monitor". As soon as they make it easy, people will suddenly realize that a monitor is just a TV with less features and a higher price tag.


What most people will actually need to read:
Does anyone know of a 32" TV, or even a smaller monitor that fits these requirements:
-Reasonably low lag but doesn't have to be perfect. I will be using the display for gaming and amateur graphics work
-Lowish response time (2-5ms)
-An IPS or VA display, basically anything that's a "true" 8-bit panel that won't display two similar shades of a color identically or show any banding
-Does not blur fine details such as the border between two colors or two shades of the same color
-No panel lottery and a QC department that knows what they're doing
-High likelihood of no stuck/dead/whatever pixels
-Color accuracy isn't really important, I'll be buying a calibrator at some point
-A price under $1000
-Viewing angle is unimportant, as long as it works for at least 10 degrees in front I think I'll be OK
-Sound is not important, I have a speaker setup already
-I don't care about inputs, as long as there is at least one DVI or HDMI.
-*shakes visibly with rage* A way to DISABLE any "Image Processing!" features that destroy my video card's already-immaculate signal
-Available in Canada at a store whose return policy doesn't lead you to believe that it hates its customers


Currently, if I don't find any better ideas and nobody here can offer any, I'll probably be getting the new Dell 24" IPS panel. It's one of those dreaded "wide gamut" things but it supposedly has rather good sRGB emulation.
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post #2 of 13 Old 11-04-2009, 07:57 PM
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well i will give you my input as a user of a Sony 32" XBR6 TV as my primary monitor, this TV is discontinued now (last years model) but the XBR9 is mostly the same save for 120hz and a new bezel design

my TV by default does this pixel bluring your talking about but you can disable it, sony calls it video vs photo mode, once set at photo mode at 1080p with 1:1 pixel scaling set my TV does ZERO video processing on the HDMI input my PC is connected to, most brand name TV's have ways to do this same thing on samsungs i know you need to use the HDMI input labeld on the back of the TV as HDMI/DVI and set the label of that input in the menus to PC and it will disable the video processing, this goes for 08 as well as current 09 models, i've seen it first hand on my buddy's 46B630 he recently bought

as for pixel lag, well its a large LCD not intended for PC usage really and are all prone to strange blurring issues, mine specifically has a poor initial black to white response time meaning that if a dark or mostly black image sits on my screen lets say on a web site an then i scroll down and white or something bright replaces what was black before i see a very slight shadow for a split second then its gone otherwise it has not real visible color blurring with motion etc. and it even took me about a month to notice the black to white response issue

as for input lag well sammy and sony are pretty simular and you can expect about 20-40 ms lag on any of their displays depending on the size, model, input and settings, with the wrong settings set they can even get as high as 80-100ms input lag but these should never be set unless your watching a movie or TV (motion processors, video processing etc.)

i've known people with panny's that love them as well for monitors and they have very low input lag in comparison to sony and samsung same goes for LG and Toshiba

If you're a gamer or interested in using an LCD TV as a primary monitor take a look at my thread on Input Lag
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post #3 of 13 Old 11-05-2009, 02:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the reply. Sony uses VA panels, don't they? I'm pretty picky, I'm not sure I'd be able to tolerate the input lag. I might not notice it at all, I don't think I've ever used a VA panel before, I've just heard all the FUD.
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post #4 of 13 Old 11-05-2009, 07:16 PM
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S-PVA panels yes, input lag they do have for sure

i tested the lag on my TV vs a CRT and here are the results as well as some other peoples results compiled in this thread i made awhile back

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1131464

If you're a gamer or interested in using an LCD TV as a primary monitor take a look at my thread on Input Lag
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post #5 of 13 Old 11-06-2009, 09:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the link, I think I saw that thread a while back but it's good to have for comparison.

Someone told me recently that virtually ALL name-brand TV sets are either IPS or VA, in other words, TN is only *EVER* found in "monitors". Is that true?

If that's the case, I could probably try just visiting local electronics stores (Futureshop, Best Buy, etc) with my laptop and the offline version of the Lagom LCD test page until I find one that suits my needs.

I think in the short term I'm going to call off my monitor-as-TV hunt until some of the most recent IQ technologies filter down to the mainstream. For example, LED backlighting. This one from Vizio looks like it could be a winner, and is supposed to be pretty cheap too: http://www.vizio.com/vm230xvt.html I just wish it was more like 26" so it would feel like a bigger upgrade...
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post #6 of 13 Old 11-06-2009, 11:00 AM
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I was shopping for a 32" TV to use as a computer monitor cause my Samsung 260HD is a piece of crap. I found Vizio's TOP OF THE LINE, 1080p, 120hz 32" model by accident: http://www.adorama.com/VIZSV320XVT.html. I was originally considering a sharp LED 32" in the $700s but this one was almost half that, so I took the plunge sight-unseen. I'm keeping my fingers crossed concerning how good the picture quality will be, but it's an S-IPS screen so it should look pretty stellar. 50k:1 contrast and a 10bit panel, and it has a minimally glossy screen. Sounded PERFECT for me, so I bought it. You should at least consider it in your search.
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post #7 of 13 Old 11-06-2009, 11:02 AM
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Oh and here's the link to the Vizio product page: http://www.vizio.com/flat-panel-hdtvs/sv320xvt.html

So pretty!
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post #8 of 13 Old 11-06-2009, 11:13 AM
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Oh and finally, it offers a zero dead pixel guarantee, which I don't think ANY other manufacturer does. You can see that on the "Tech Specs" tab: "Zero Bright Pixel Defect Guarantee: Yes".

It's a slam dunk, IMO.
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post #9 of 13 Old 11-06-2009, 06:10 PM
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Nice! Let us know how that works out when you get it! I agree, these new vizios look really good. I am considering the SV370XVT (same thing just a bit bigger), and would be curious to see how it does with PC input and gaming lag.
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post #10 of 13 Old 11-06-2009, 07:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nawoa View Post

Someone told me recently that virtually ALL name-brand TV sets are either IPS or VA, in other words, TN is only *EVER* found in "monitors". Is that true?


at 32"+ sizes this is true, cheap smaller TV's quite often use PC monitor TN panels say the 22" TVs out there specifically but really if you want a TN panel why not just get a PC monitor it will be a lot cheaper than a TV

If you're a gamer or interested in using an LCD TV as a primary monitor take a look at my thread on Input Lag
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post #11 of 13 Old 11-06-2009, 11:42 PM
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Hmmm... The specs on that Vizio look really good. It'd be nice to see a lag test done on one.
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post #12 of 13 Old 11-07-2009, 08:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Yeah I'd definitely like to see a geek-oriented review of that TV when you get it.
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post #13 of 13 Old 11-16-2009, 09:34 AM
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Looking for the same thing here...

lets say given a 50/50 usage split, what is currently the best 32" LED/LCD that can successfully act as a TV and PC monitor?

or should instead be looking at computer monitors that can do both?
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