Samsung LED flashlight/clouding - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 28 Old 12-29-2009, 11:04 PM - Thread Starter
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OK...I recently purchased the samsung LED 8000. As many here, beautiful picture, beautiful set....until the sun goes down, and that's when the gremlin seems to come out. The clouds and flashlights so many describe. I didn't research anything until I actually saw it, during one dark scene...I researched it and have been on this forum for a week and every night waiting for the sun to go down to play with settings.

I've read about people returning the sets, having people come out to replace panels, taking the thing half apart to reset screws....really any number of things I have read about....then I read one little line one person wrote where he mentioned tapping on the screen.

Well I just went upstairs, and I decided to not tap but rub, I took that little blue cloth out of it's bag and I rubbed on the screen. Have any of you rubbed an LCD screen to get a pixel back or to alleviate some other issue? I have but for some reasons thought nothing of doing it for this until I read that one line. So I rubbed, enough to make the pixels light and glow funny....pressure, firm but not enough to do damage. I backed up...and thought....is that working. So I rubbed rubbed rubbed....and unless I have gone completely crazy I believe it has worked. I appear to have rubbed out the situation! I would like to Highly recommend this as a solution. If you can, load an image onto a USB stick that will help you see your cloudy/flashlight situation. This way you can see what you are doing. Back up and watch. Work an area at a time. Post your results back here.
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post #2 of 28 Old 01-11-2010, 11:21 PM
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what kind of image did you use? Can you send it to me on pm or something. I just brought home this tv today, I paid $2000 for it since it was a returned open box still in plastic, and I'm nervous about keeping it.
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post #3 of 28 Old 01-12-2010, 12:38 PM
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If this is an edge lit LED lit display, the LEDs on the edge are very bright. With all the normal precautions, flashlighting" or the non-uniformity along the display is ever-present. In a bright environment, the surface reflection on the display is washing out the non-uniformity of the darker screens. Its like not being able to see your headlights on the road during the day. At night, when its dark, it is very easy to see.
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post #4 of 28 Old 01-15-2010, 08:32 AM - Thread Starter
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what works best is an image of something like a sunset where there is a mountain or something inf the foreground so the entire bottom of the screen is black. Then the top of the screen is ultra bright and in high contrast. Just look around on the google images for something like it. In any case, it will cause the flash lighting to occur because the LED's are trying to brighten areas of the screen.

I will tell you I did it again the other night where I noticed an area on the left that I was had a little flash lighting going on. I rubbed the screen and once again the area is fine. The areas I rubbed on previously have still been fine. It's a weird deal....the flash lighting (prior to fixing) only was noticeable on oddly like scenes....like a sunset. Or someone in a black room with a flashlight. So that's really a small percentage of the majority of things you will ever watch. the image looks great...and all LCD's have some drawback. For how much better than this is than they were just 2 years ago....


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post #5 of 28 Old 01-15-2010, 10:24 AM
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By rubbing the screen, you're probably only creating smears/stains which make the clouding less noticeable. It's not a good idea in my opinion, as the screen is made of glossy plastic and probably easy to scratch.
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post #6 of 28 Old 01-15-2010, 10:37 AM
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I don't know about that, I've read some reasonably convincing stuff that seems to suggest that the clouding issue in particular could be due to nonuniform panel joining, sort of like having a very thin air bubble under clear tape or badly applied window tint. In circumstances like that you can often, with patience, massage the bubble out if you care to do so. If that's contributing to the clouding, then it's possible that careful, light massaging of the screen with something very gentle like a microfiber cloth intended for screen cleaning could reduce or even eliminate the issue.

That said, if it's due to something else, then I don't see how massaging would help. On the other hand, if what he did did improve the screen, then it doesn't make sense to suggest that in fact he has damaged it somehow or rubbed something off, because that would only exacerbate the clouding issue since there would then be even less material in the way of the cloudy areas, not more.
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post #7 of 28 Old 01-15-2010, 12:27 PM
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There is no film on the front of the display other than the linear polarizer and it is a single piece of film. Anyone suggesting that there is a film on the display made up of multiple pieces is wrong. Delamination of the front polaizer is very rare but I suppose it could happen.
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post #8 of 28 Old 01-15-2010, 12:37 PM
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No, I recall this having more to do with the S-PVA TFT being somewhat less uniformly joined in places. I'll see if I can find it, but this isn't the first post I've seen talking about being able to massage out clouds with surprising success.
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post #9 of 28 Old 01-15-2010, 12:57 PM
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It's too bad we can't find an expert on the matter to end all of our speculation and ease our minds.
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post #10 of 28 Old 01-15-2010, 01:06 PM
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according to a senior samsung tech on these forums clouding and flashlighting is not caused by the LCD panel. it is most commonly the result of 1 of 2 things


for flashlights its too much pressure on the corners of the panel (screws too tight)

for clouding its separation of the light diffuser sheets between the LCD panel and the blacklight spreader plate, he says often caused by moisture getting in there probably from shipping and storage etc.
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If you're a gamer or interested in using an LCD TV as a primary monitor take a look at my thread on Input Lag
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post #11 of 28 Old 01-15-2010, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frito View Post

according to a senior samsung tech on these forums clouding and flashlighting is not caused by the LCD panel. it is most commonly the result of 1 of 2 things


for flashlights its too much pressure on the corners of the panel (screws too tight)

for clouding its separation of the light diffuser sheets between the LCD panel and the blacklight spreader plate, he says often caused by moisture getting in there probably from shipping and storage etc.


Okay. Would the moisture go away after a while?
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post #12 of 28 Old 01-15-2010, 02:40 PM
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Wow clouding on a Samsung tv? I have heard its an inherant problem on alot of LCD tv's and I have also heard that looseing the screws on the back of the tv's dont help, in fact its not reccomended.
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post #13 of 28 Old 01-15-2010, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A10 Titan View Post

Okay. Would the moisture go away after a while?

it does go away but it leaves the sheets separated afterwards


loosening the screws that hold the LCD panel to the frame is how you go about getting rid of flashlights

If you're a gamer or interested in using an LCD TV as a primary monitor take a look at my thread on Input Lag
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post #14 of 28 Old 01-17-2010, 08:36 AM - Thread Starter
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All I know is rubbing changed something. If it's some separation of layers due to whatever, it worked. Just use that blue cloth that comes with your TV. The screens are extremely durable and you don't need to be worried about scratching the screen (unless you wipe the floor with the cloth first and pick up sand). I will tell you a great movie to watch it Sweeney Todd to make any clouding and flash lighting come out. It would be nice to know it this rubbing permanently fixes it or is simply a temporary solution. As I haven't seen the flashlights that bothered me return since I did it....I feel it's a pretty permanent solution.
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post #15 of 28 Old 01-17-2010, 12:20 PM
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Man i ordered a 6000 to be delivered in one month. After all this talk, I am wondering if i should cancel it and have them deliver a 750 instead. I need to do so fast though as 750s are dwinding...

is this of enough concern to switch my order?
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post #16 of 28 Old 01-19-2010, 05:22 AM
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I've done a lot of testing with dark movies/images and I only see clouding/flashlighting with certain sources. The TV gets very dark where it's supposed to on some sources and shows issues with others. I'm not sure what can be done about it, but now I know it's not an issue with the television.

My TV is a b8500 BTW.
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post #17 of 28 Old 01-21-2010, 10:04 AM
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I will give this a try tonight. I have the 55B8000 with no flashlighting but some clouding concerns. I only notice it during certain scenes but not all "dark" movies. Dark Knight looked great but I Am Legend (looking for Sam in dark building) and Pandorum struggled on a few occasions to varying degrees. I really notice in in movies with darkness and flashlights being used to illuminate scenes. Otherwise the television excels in all regards but the clouding (although infrequently obvious) drives me nuts and will likely lead me to return it. Hopefully this simple method will do the trick.

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post #18 of 28 Old 03-17-2010, 09:53 AM
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Any other info on this topic? I just bought a c7000 and the PQ is amazing but it does have clouding/flashlights. By no means would i return it b.c 98% of the time, the PQ is incredible but I'm thinking about the rubbing solution on this one cloud and loosening the screw for the flash light in the left corner.
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post #19 of 28 Old 06-06-2010, 07:58 AM
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The rubbing does "reduce" clouding but does nothing to flashlight. I haven't rub it much but the problem seem to be less worse than before. I'll go try rub it longer. So .. for me your solution worked ... thanks. (by the way ... mine is UA46C6200)

ps. sorry for my poor english ...
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post #20 of 28 Old 06-06-2010, 05:17 PM
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every Samsung LCD I have ever looked at has had bad flashlighting
I don't think there is a way to fix it
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post #21 of 28 Old 12-09-2010, 08:18 PM
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I am new on this forum, but very happy what I've read so far. I've purchased a UA55B8000 LED 8 months ago. I do have serious clouding issues too. The technician has been at my home for 3 times. 1st time to change the main board and another print. 2nd time to replace the LED panel, and 3rd time a firmware update. Samsung told me it is the end of story they have done what they could. So I’m on my own now. Two weeks ago I have un tide the screws on virtual places and the clouding is less visual. There are still 2 spots which I rubbed yesterday evening as you have mentioned (futura65) in the AVS Forum. This morning I've turned on the LED and it is visual again. My question is, how do I have to rub (example; up and down or turn around) and how long (2, 4 or 6 minutes)? I would be very happy with an answer, because I'm exhausted.
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post #22 of 28 Old 12-09-2010, 09:04 PM
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Another issue I would like to bring up is that if I turn on the display, the clouding start to be more visual after 30 minutes. The first 20 to 30 minutes the screen will be almost perfect black. This was a problem when the technicians left and suddenly the clouding starts to occur again. Last time, (because they didn't believe me) I have turned on the display 1 hour before the technicians came. This whole matter took me already months and months. I'm still in warranty (until May 2011), but Samsung doesn't want to take any action anymore. Should I start rubbing again? ? ?
14-12-2010. Last week I discovered something with my Samsung display again. If the weather is a litle bit cooler (21 - 22 degrees celsius in the livingroom) the display has less clouding issues as when the room temperature reaches 25 - 27 degrees celsius. So I have concluded that the displays are also temperature sensitive.
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post #23 of 28 Old 12-10-2010, 12:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Instrhenny View Post
Another issue I would like to bring up is that if I turn on the display, the clouding start to be more visual after 30 minutes. The first 20 to 30 minutes the screen will be almost perfect black. This was a problem when the technicians left and suddenly the clouding starts to occur again. Last time, (because they didn't believe me) I have turned on the display 1 hour before the technicians came. This whole matter took me already months and months. I'm still in warranty (until May 2011), but Samsung doesn't want to take any action anymore. Should I start rubbing again? ? ?
I really don't think rubbing does much to help, if at all. I think you may just have to live with it. Try keeping the backlight low and the brightness down. If I were you and it really bothered me, I might throw the set up on craigslist, while it still has a warranty, sell it for a decent price, take a hit of a couple hundred dollars and go get something else. Just be sure to test the hell out of your new set before the 30 day return policy is up.

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Of course, I got it modified with the TK-427, which cheeks it up another, maybe, 3 or 4 quads per channel.
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post #24 of 28 Old 12-18-2010, 01:35 AM
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Very good news yesterday. Samsung has considered my case and came with a very suitable answer by email. They will give me a full refund for my Samsung UA55B8000.
2 Weeks ago I've send (on request) the H Q from Samsung by email my check bill, warranty card, and a copy from my passport.
My review about this situation is that I was very satisfied with the service to visit me at home for 3 times. It's 240 km from Udon Thani to Nakhon Phanom. To give me a refund now after 8 months is outstanding. I'm going to check a new set again but as you (MrEastSide) recommended, I will spent some more time before I make a decission. My choice will probably be in the direction from LG.
Thanks, and best regards Instrhenny.
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post #25 of 28 Old 12-18-2010, 07:32 AM
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Guys, I think the rubbing is just going to cause you more problems with the displays. The pixel stacks are very fragile and could be easily damaged by rubbing. This is true for all of the tv manufacturers!
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post #26 of 28 Old 12-18-2010, 07:20 PM
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my 60 inch CCFL with the sharp panel has no flashlighting, however the reflections caused by the glossy screen in even the most dim light settings have cause slight buyer's remorse, even if they aren't noticeable with normal viewing, just knowing they are there... the reflections seem to be slightly more apparent then they were on my 46 inch set, or I'm just being picky and forgot about the glare on my old set. In any case, I'm happy with the set otherwise.. I have come to see the light on the whole glossy vs matte issue though.. for the average person, matte is the way to go. Only in a dedicated light controlled setup is glossy optimal. Fortunately I can achieve this. Of course matte has it's own issues too.. hopefully technology eventually makes both obsolete and we can get the best of both worlds.

I sit so close to my set that it's like being in a theatre.. have to turn my head left and right to see the whole picture.. lovin it! Now I'm gonna build a new sandy bridge system in Jan and do some major gaming!
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post #27 of 28 Old 06-24-2011, 08:29 PM
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post #28 of 28 Old 09-22-2011, 04:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by futura65 View Post

what works best is an image of something like a sunset where there is a mountain or something inf the foreground so the entire bottom of the screen is black. Then the top of the screen is ultra bright and in high contrast. Just look around on the google images for something like it. In any case, it will cause the flash lighting to occur because the LED's are trying to brighten areas of the screen.

I will tell you I did it again the other night where I noticed an area on the left that I was had a little flash lighting going on. I rubbed the screen and once again the area is fine. The areas I rubbed on previously have still been fine. It's a weird deal....the flash lighting (prior to fixing) only was noticeable on oddly like scenes....like a sunset. Or someone in a black room with a flashlight. So that's really a small percentage of the majority of things you will ever watch. the image looks great...and all LCD's have some drawback. For how much better than this is than they were just 2 years ago....



Wow, that's some serious clouding at the top of the picture.
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