Netflix - too much rebuffering on Sony Bravia Engine 3 TVs (W5100/Z5100/XBR9) - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 63 Old 02-25-2010, 03:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Packet View Post

it's the only thing i can think of aside from a tv-specific issue...

if it shows you the statistics on the port, see if it shows any errors...
if it does - then it's more clear cut.
and yes, 100 full is what i would try (ideally, should be having that on both sides, but i doubt the tv allows you to configure that...)

I'm using dd-wrt (micro) and I can find no way to lock the port to FULL. I don't see any errors though.

I was able to monitor the bandwidth while watching streaming content, both for Amazon on demand as well as Netflix. The times it did rebuffer while I was watching, I saw no drop in bandwidth so I'm not sure why it was doing it.

I can say that when I monitored streaming Netlfix through my PS3 on this same router, the transfer rates were like 10mbps average, but with the TV, everything was like 4-6mbps. I just don't think that the TV's processor/memory is fast enough to stream as well as the PS3.

I've just sort of given up and use it when it works and when it doesn't, I just switch to my PS3.
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post #32 of 63 Old 02-25-2010, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by russr View Post

I'm using dd-wrt (micro) and I can find no way to lock the port to FULL. I don't see any errors though.

I was able to monitor the bandwidth while watching streaming content, both for Amazon on demand as well as Netflix. The times it did rebuffer while I was watching, I saw no drop in bandwidth so I'm not sure why it was doing it.

I can say that when I monitored streaming Netlfix through my PS3 on this same router, the transfer rates were like 10mbps average, but with the TV, everything was like 4-6mbps. I just don't think that the TV's processor/memory is fast enough to stream as well as the PS3.

I've just sort of given up and use it when it works and when it doesn't, I just switch to my PS3.

What was the transfer rate while streaming from Amazon (HD and SD)? Can you stream from Amazon via PS3?
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post #33 of 63 Old 02-25-2010, 06:19 PM - Thread Starter
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A burst of 11mbps while it is checking link speed and then it averages around 4-6mbps. I don't have any issues with rebuffering on Amazon, but I don't use it much since you have to pay for it rather than subscription the way Netflix is.
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post #34 of 63 Old 02-25-2010, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by russr View Post

A burst of 11mbps while it is checking link speed and then it averages around 4-6mbps. I don't have any issues with rebuffering on Amazon, but I don't use it much since you have to pay for it rather than subscription the way Netflix is.

Is that transfer rate for HD or SD?
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post #35 of 63 Old 02-28-2010, 06:16 PM
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My wife has me Netflix-streaming a marathon of 30 Rock episodes for her. They rebuffer constantly. I have a good, high-speed internet connection, and my XBR9 has firmware 153.
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post #36 of 63 Old 03-01-2010, 09:54 AM
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I got the new slim PS3 two weekends ago and Netflix hasn't once rebuffered on watch now streams.

If you have choices PS3 > Roku > Sony tv.

Unfortunately, the PS3 draws significantly more power (80 watts) compared to Roku (??).

It's gotta be something with the hardware/software on the tv.
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post #37 of 63 Old 03-07-2010, 01:58 PM
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Have an older Roku and plays netflix fine, however the pic is not as sharp as the Z5100 internal netflix player on a 1.5Mb cable connection, but better than having the TV rebuffer every couple of minutes.

Get sound dropouts using optical out of the Z5100 to A/VR(eceiver) when using the Roku, need to try another HDMI input and cable. Going Roku optical out to A/VR works fine.
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post #38 of 63 Old 03-09-2010, 08:57 AM
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Pratically never have rebuffer issues on my z5100. I say practically because I'm sure it has done it at some point but I can say that it probably hasn't happened at all in 2010 and I stream from netflix quite frequently: cable modem -> netgear dir-655 -> wired to tv.
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post #39 of 63 Old 03-11-2010, 04:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bic1 View Post

I got the new slim PS3 two weekends ago and Netflix hasn't once rebuffered on watch now streams.

If you have choices PS3 > Roku > Sony tv.

Unfortunately, the PS3 draws significantly more power (80 watts) compared to Roku (??).

It's gotta be something with the hardware/software on the tv.

Yeah as I said in my earlier posts, absolutely no problems using the PS3. Watching HD movies or TV shows during primetime will often result in rebuffering especially if your TV show is an hour long episode, or you're watching a movie.
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post #40 of 63 Old 04-14-2010, 06:55 AM
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Does anyone know offhand if there's a way to "force" a movie to play back in SD form? I have 5MB DSL which just doesn't cut it for HD, but SD plays just fine on my Z5100. Watching HD on my laptop is fine, since it'll resize it based on my connection, but it seems like that doesn't happen on the 5100.
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post #41 of 63 Old 07-11-2010, 06:10 PM
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I purchased a 46" xbr9 about 3 months ago, and just tried streaming netflix on it for the first time about a week ago. I have the latest firmware, and still the HD content from netflix stops to re-buffer (presumably) so often that it is not watchable.

I found this discussion, and saw that the most recent post is quite old. Has anyone since found any way to improve the performance, or has everyone given up on netflix with a Sony TV? I'd prefer not to have to buy a PS3 to do something that the TV should do itself.
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post #42 of 63 Old 07-12-2010, 05:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hacman View Post

I purchased a 46" xbr9 about 3 months ago, and just tried streaming netflix on it for the first time about a week ago. I have the latest firmware, and still the HD content from netflix stops to re-buffer (presumably) so often that it is not watchable.

I found this discussion, and saw that the most recent post is quite old. Has anyone since found any way to improve the performance, or has everyone given up on netflix with a Sony TV? I'd prefer not to have to buy a PS3 to do something that the TV should do itself.

I've given up - I now use a LG590 blu-ray player which streams Netflix beautifully.
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post #43 of 63 Old 09-26-2010, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by therain93 View Post

Pratically never have rebuffer issues on my z5100. I say practically because I'm sure it has done it at some point but I can say that it probably hasn't happened at all in 2010 and I stream from netflix quite frequently: cable modem -> netgear dir-655 -> wired to tv.

Just an update, I find that I'm running into buffering issues on an almost daily basis now, regardless of the time of day. Watched 2 episodes of Terminator:tscc on Sunday before noon and each rebuffered at least once.

Current fw is aa0176pn
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post #44 of 63 Old 10-01-2010, 06:47 PM
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I am going through the same problem but with Sony blu-Ray players. Sony and netflix support are of no help. I did some experiments and here what i think sony's problem is.

What I found was that for whatever reason, The streaming rate to sony devices was much slower that the rate to non Sony devices. I have a 20meg pipe but was only getting about 500kbps when streaming netflix to the sony. The pauses occurring during a movie is because the the slow rate is not fast enough to support the content.

Using a PC, I was getting streaming rate of 3mbps and no pauses. For me, I think the last firmware upgrade introduced a problem.

My guess is that the problem is with the Sony/netflix rate calculation during link speed test before the start of a movie.

I still have a trouble ticket opened with Sony and I will escalate on Monday. Keep you posted if I have progress.
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post #45 of 63 Old 10-02-2010, 05:22 AM
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I don't stream at all on my Z but I manage a large enterprise network and I wonder if there is a way to run a traceroute through the TV data stream so as to pinpoint the point of slowdown causing the buffering since it's common networking knowledge that your data cannot flow any faster than the slowest point in the Chain. Easy to do on a network using utilities through DNS Stuff or SpeedTest/PingTest et al as they can ID the slowdown HOPS but never attempted doing this with a TV as I don't interface it as an HTPC. You may want to post this inquiry on the HTPC section since the HTPC Hobbyists should have the best advice in this area.

Pretty easy to blame the TV when a host of issues could cause slow buffering and a perfect example is though someone may think they have high bandwidth it's a fact that unless someone has purchased a guaranteed committed information rate (CIR) available on T1's or have a dedicated point to point connects you can experience throttling by your communications company during peak periods of the day. I have a triple bonded T1 with six PTP T1's and VOIP Primes with 350 phones going through it and they all have CIR guarantee's with 500 PC's sharing across the network to prevent throttling and we still get buffering depending on the site data is being transmitted from.

I just wonder if Sony is doing any checking for Media compliance which could slowdown the process as they have a history of doing so in the past on many of their devices.

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post #46 of 63 Old 01-05-2011, 11:53 AM - Thread Starter
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My theory is that if you have decent bandwidth through your ISP, say 8mbps or faster and you're having no problem streaming HD titles from Netflix on your PC, PS3 or XBOX, then the issue is not with your internet connection. I fall into this category and when monitoring bandwidth usage while streaming a HD title on the TV, I found that it is does not make use of full available bandwidth. PC and PS3 do. Is this because the Netflix app has a bug or the TV itself is too slow to handle that much data streaming?

I encourage you guys to monitor bandwidth usage when watching netflix HD on your tv and compare to your PS3 or other device such as Roku.
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post #47 of 63 Old 01-05-2011, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by russr View Post
My theory is that if you have decent bandwidth through your ISP, say 8mbps or faster and you're having no problem streaming HD titles from Netflix on your PC, PS3 or XBOX, then the issue is not with your internet connection. I fall into this category and when monitoring bandwidth usage while streaming a HD title on the TV, I found that it is does not make use of full available bandwidth. PC and PS3 do. Is this because the Netflix app has a bug or the TV itself is too slow to handle that much data streaming?

I encourage you guys to monitor bandwidth usage when watching netflix HD on your tv and compare to your PS3 or other device such as Roku.
Hi Russr - thanks for your vigilance in continuing to monitor this problem. I've had many conversations with Netflix & Sony reps (Sony reps seem pretty useless and poorly informed concerning this problem) Question for you
: How do you monitor bandwidth usage when watching Netflix HD on your XBR?

I did get some relief to this problem after speaking with my ISP (Qwest) tech support - they reviewed my DSL connection, identified some "errors" and switched my "Gateway" Not sure what that means - but as a result subsequent HD streaming has had few, if any, buffering issues.

I considered purchasing a Network DVD player - but one of the reasons I purchased the XBR9 in the first place, was Sony's claim that you could directly stream Netflix content - so it seems like Sony should be more committed to identifying and fixing these problems - however I doubt we will see any subsequent firmware updates.

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post #48 of 63 Old 01-05-2011, 01:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ggsantafe View Post
Hi Russr - thanks for your vigilance in continuing to monitor this problem. I've had many conversations with Netflix & Sony reps (Sony reps seem pretty useless and poorly informed concerning this problem) Question for you
: How do you monitor bandwidth usage when watching Netflix HD on your XBR?

I did get some relief to this problem after speaking with my ISP (Qwest) tech support - they reviewed my DSL connection, identified some "errors" and switched my "Gateway" Not sure what that means - but as a result subsequent HD streaming has had few, if any, buffering issues.

I considered purchasing a Network DVD player - but one of the reasons I purchased the XBR9 in the first place, was Sony's claim that you could directly stream Netflix content - so it seems like Sony should be more committed to identifying and fixing these problems - however I doubt we will see any subsequent firmware updates.
My router has a screen where it plots a chart of bandwidth usage over wireless. I look at this chart when watching Netflix on the TV and I compare it to the same thing on the PS3. It seemed to me that the TV only used the available bandwidth at the beginning when it is showing that red netflix screen where it is testing your speed. After that, it used 2-5mbps tops for HD titles and way less for non-HD ones. The PS3 used all available 10-12mbps.
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post #49 of 63 Old 01-11-2011, 02:54 AM
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as for me I prefer to use ProteMac Meter ( www.protemac.com ) for monitoring bandwidth usage, anybody heard about this app?
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post #50 of 63 Old 02-15-2011, 05:19 AM
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Hi guys. I'm new here after looking around for others with my Sony problem--and I am seeing it everywhere. Trying to resolve since August '10, I just this week learned something new from a 2nd level Sony tech support rep. My problem is a Sony BDP-S570 Blu-ray player with streaming, purchased last July. Various updates and upgrades to my Internet service have not solved a thing. Indeed, it is getting worse.

Symptom: Movie starts after a couple minutes (!) of Loading..., plays for a minute or two, then returns to Loading... Other times, I get network error. Netflix problem? I don't think so. I can immediately move from the TV with the Sony player to a Vizio TV with built in Internet apps, and the Netflix movie (1) starts in half the time and (2) shows smoothly in a brilliant HD picture. I can also play the movie on the computer. Back to the Sony, and I get Loading...

Here is what I just learned (maybe you guys already knew this): When you stream Netflix to a Sony device, it is all done through Sony servers. So while Netflix streams from 77,000 servers and starts with the one closest to you, the movie has to go through Sony servers first. If the Sony servers are under high load--like if there are two people streaming one of Sony's proprietary services--then you get slowed. This explains everything. It's why the computer and Vizio TV have no problem while the Sony sucks big time!

As someone else suggested, it is a good idea for Sony users to call and complain, and even more so to call your retailer and complain. While Sony is famous for following the Japanese business tradition of ignoring consumers, they do listen to distributors. It will take dealer pressure on Sony to get results. Enough of us demanding our money back for poorly designed products, and Amazon and Sears will get Sony's attention.

BTW, Sony knows everything you watch on a Sony streaming device. During my conversation with tech support, the guy asked for the mac address of my player and then told me "I see you had rebuffering problems with so-and-so, which is a high def movie. You've got to have a minimum 10Mbps download speed for high def streaming."
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post #51 of 63 Old 02-15-2011, 05:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for your post. I always suspected that it was going through Sony's servers first. That explains why it performs like crap when watching HD titles during prime time and why other devices such as the PS3 and PC have no issues. Ironically, the PS3 is also a Sony device, but doesn't suffer from this problem. Maybe on the PS3 it doesn't go through Sony's servers? BTW, Sony's servers are not very good. They do not perform well at prime time and I think most of them are in CA.
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post #52 of 63 Old 02-15-2011, 07:22 AM
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I was having lots of problems last week with my new Sony tv. But the past couple of days have been perfect. I don't know if it has to do with me reporting each movie with Netfix as unwatchable or frequent re buffering. I reported like 12 movies last week and now it's fixed. Something fishy if you ask me.
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post #53 of 63 Old 02-15-2011, 07:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Reporting to Netflix doesn't do anything as others have said, the problem is with the Sony servers.
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post #54 of 63 Old 02-21-2011, 07:57 AM - Thread Starter
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I tried to watch an episode of Parks & Recreation last night (which is HD) using my W5100. Man, I couldn't even go a few minutes w/o it pausing and rebuffering. It got so bad once it started that I had to quit the app and try again and then after a couple of minutes it started again. It was really unwatchable.

I don't know if it was the Netflix servers or the Sony servers, but it really sucked.
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post #55 of 63 Old 03-22-2011, 07:54 AM
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I have 2 Sony BDPS370s and streaming from netflix has been very frustrating due to the constant pausing/loading over and over. I thought it was a problem with the players, but I testing it with a fast PC and had the same problem, it seemed better on the PC, but still not good. Last night I really dug into it and fixed it. I watched 5 episodes of Dexter back to back on the player with no pauses, hurray! here is what I found.

I have a Cisco 850 router on my connection and looking at the logs I found this: %FW-4-TCP_OoO_SEG: Dropping TCP Segment: seq:2216900717 1500 bytes is out-of-order; expected seq:2216884657. Reason: TCP reassembly queue overflow - session 192.168.5.8:50243 to 69.28.187.14:80

basically, the streaming packets from netflix are coming in out of order, this is perfectly normal, but the memory buffer was filling up when it was trying to re-assemble the segments to inspect the traffic. the default behavior is to drop the traffic when this occurs causing the player to have to request packets over and over. this causes all the pauses while the player tries to catch up the stream. long story short, I tried to disable the reassembly and inspection, but it still does it (tried, no ip virtual-reassembly, command on all the interfaces) nothing. i had to disable the inspection entirely (no ip inspect command on the interface) to get the router to stop trying to reassemble the fragments and inspect. that fixed it, no problems after that.

I don't know exactly how this translates to other routers/cable modems etc. It will decrease your security somewhat, but for all the netgear/linksys routers out there you might be able to disable inspection or advanced packet security to solve your problem. also, just buying a cheap router that won't do anything advanced might be a good solution too.

for reference I have a 20mb fiber connection similar to fios so it is not a bandwidth problem IMO. cisco 850W router and a couple linksys 5 port switches.
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post #56 of 63 Old 03-22-2011, 11:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Watching with a Sammy BR player, my connection is *only* 3Mb. No fancy router. BEAUTIFUL.

Are you watching HD titles though? Try something like Pars & Recreation or The Office or something.
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post #57 of 63 Old 01-04-2012, 06:58 PM
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Have been having the same problem with Netflix and my new Sony 929. I contact Sony, Netflix, and even my Cable provider.

-The Sony has the latest firmware
-I purchased a signal enhancer and have excellent signal strength
-Checked the download speed with my internet provider
-Followed the reboot instruction from Netflix.

Finally, I just took my HD Roku that I used with my old TV and it works perfectly on the SOny TV.

The problem is definitely with the SONY TV.
Unfortunately, it doesn't make sense to spend so much $$ for a TV and then purchase another Device like the Roku, but I already had it.

THe bottom line is that I believe that have isolated the company that is responsible.
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post #58 of 63 Old 11-02-2012, 03:29 PM
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Well, not much on this thread lately
Although I usually don't use my TV to stream, did use netflix last night and rebuffered SD every few minutes.
Gave up, accessed Neflix via my sony BX58 blu ray without any rebuffering at all.
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post #59 of 63 Old 11-18-2012, 10:07 PM
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Well, not much on this thread lately
Although I usually don't use my TV to stream, did use netflix last night and rebuffered SD every few minutes.
Gave up, accessed Neflix via my sony BX58 blu ray without any rebuffering at all.
Thanks so much for posting recent experience.

Just to confirm, the BX58 is a newer device that does not have this issue, right?

I was thinking of getting a BDP-S185 that is effected by the netflix issue and after reading much about it my conclusion is that this is a Sony issue but Sony is not willing/able to resolve it.
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post #60 of 63 Old 11-23-2013, 08:23 PM
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Just found this thread after yet another frustrating Netflix experience over a hardwired 25mbs FIOS connection to a Sony XBR9. Rebuffering constantly exactly as described in this thread..

My mac laptop running WIFI and output to the TV worked flawlessly on exactly the same home network - but via WIFI…..

And here I could have sworn it was due to Netflix, not the relatively high end XBR9. As far as I know it's running the latest firmware.

Has anyone found a solution to this, or is Sony still the culprit here? I guess I could also try my Panny Blu-Ray as the streaming source and bypass the Sony "not-so-smart" box……

Quick update: Found this on the sony support site:

https://us.en.kb.sony.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/31927/c/65,66/

"Unlike some computer programs, TVs and BD players operate on a fixed streaming rate that is determined before the movie starts playing. If the movie continues to buffer because of a change in Internet speed, stop and restart the movie to initiate a new streaming rate."

Inelegant, but perhaps a more likely explanation than "everything goes thru Sony's servers", which seems to be an unverified rumor. Either way, the Netflix experience stinks on the XBR
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