Official KDL..EX500/501 Thread - Page 11 - AVS Forum
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post #301 of 6195 Old 03-15-2010, 06:51 AM
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I had a w5100 for a while, and I keep hearing that the ex500 has better black levels. This is great and all, but are they on par with, let's say a panny 750b? I always hear a tv has "really good black levels", but when I go to the store, it always seems the panasonics are the darkest (and I am referring to all ccfl lit tv's for comparison).

I'm more of a sony fan than panasonic, and would prefer to get an ex500 series, and keep hearing that the black levels are "getting better". Are they as good as the 750b for those who have seen it in person? I have been looking everywhere for a ex500 on display, but there is no close who has it yet.

FWIW, A native contrast ratio is always more important to me than a dynamic or mega rating. How well can the set render good, solid black

ps...please don't ask me to "get a plasma"-can't stand the phosphor lag (plasma rainbows-yes, they exist)
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post #302 of 6195 Old 03-15-2010, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbaseuser View Post

I had a w5100 for a while, and I keep hearing that the ex500 has better black levels. This is great and all, but are they on par with, let's say a panny 750b? I always hear a tv has "really good black levels", but when I go to the store, it always seems the panasonics are the darkest (and I am referring to all ccfl lit tv's for comparison).

I'm more of a sony fan than panasonic, and would prefer to get an ex500 series, and keep hearing that the black levels are "getting better". Are they as good as the 750b for those who have seen it in person? I have been looking everywhere for a ex500 on display, but there is no close who has it yet.

FWIW, A native contrast ratio is always more important to me than a dynamic or mega rating. How well can the set render good, solid black

ps...please don't ask me to "get a plasma"-can't stand the phosphor lag (plasma rainbows-yes, they exist)

Panny 750? Or do you mean Samsung's 750? The Sammy 750s are really great TVs, not for everyone, but for those who love the (harsh, in my opinion) "pop" vs. the Sony's slightly softer picture.

All Panny's 42" and larger are plasma not LCD. So if you've been comparing at the store, you're either comparing 32 inchers, or 37's to 40's... not a really great comparo. But I truly think you've been comparing Sony to the Samsungs. If so, Sammy's glossy ultra clear panels allow their screens to provide that extra "pop" that's great for brightly lit retail stores. The higher the picture contrast setting (brighter the colors), the darker the blacks would appear.

I agree with you with the contrast ratios... native is always a better measure that the dynamic numbers. However, from my understanding, contrast ratios are really arbitrary measurements. Different manufacturers measure this characteristic differently, resulting in values that are inconsistent from one brand to another. Another marketing trick....

Sony 52W4100 LCD, LG 42PG25 Plasma, Sony 46Z5100 LCD, Samsung 19D4000 LED, Samsung BD-P 2550, PS3 Slim, Sony BDP-S350, LG BD570, Panny DMR-EZ485V
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post #303 of 6195 Old 03-15-2010, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by chinee View Post

Panny 750? Or do you mean Samsung's 750? The Sammy 750s are really great TVs, not for everyone, but for those who love the (harsh, in my opinion) "pop" vs. the Sony's slightly softer picture.

All Panny's 42" and larger are plasma not LCD. So if you've been comparing at the store, you're either comparing 32 inchers, or 37's to 40's... not a really great comparo. But I truly think you've been comparing Sony to the Samsungs. If so, Sammy's glossy ultra clear panels allow their screens to provide that extra "pop" that's great for brightly lit retail stores. The higher the picture contrast setting (brighter the colors), the darker the blacks would appear.

I agree with you with the contrast ratios... native is always a better measure that the dynamic numbers. However, from my understanding, contrast ratios are really arbitrary measurements. Different manufacturers measure this characteristic differently, resulting in values that are inconsistent from one brand to another. Another marketing trick....

Sorry, yes I meant Samsung 750b (Heck, 650b even). Are the actual panels different? Is one known to be better than the other? I have always loved color on sonys. I have an eye one meter, and always do greyscale cal. on all my displays. I currently have an epson 6500 projector, which also has a full CMS.

I tried to live with a sony 52s5100 for a while, but the red flashing killed me. I WAS, however, able to get a beautiful white balance. Although full cms was not aval on the 52s5100, the color were close enough for me. There were clouding/flashlight issues, and the native black level left something to be desired.

I'm basically looking for a good replacement (done with projectors), but am also a big gamer, so a "quick" display would be nice. I heard someone say that the lag on this tv wasn't bad at all, especially with the game mode turned on. That's a huge plus.

I just hope that the "red flashing" issue doesn't creep up on this tv since it's using the Bravia 2 engine. I personally don't know if that was the sole culprit of the color flashing issues in previous sets or not. Let's hope not.
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post #304 of 6195 Old 03-15-2010, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbaseuser View Post

Sorry, yes I meant Samsung 750b (Heck, 650b even). Are the actual panels different? Is one known to be better than the other? I have always loved color on sonys. I have an eye one meter, and always do greyscale cal. on all my displays. I currently have an epson 6500 projector, which also has a full CMS.

I tried to live with a sony 52s5100 for a while, but the red flashing killed me. I WAS, however, able to get a beautiful white balance. Although full cms was not aval on the 52s5100, the color were close enough for me. There were clouding/flashlight issues, and the native black level left something to be desired.

I'm basically looking for a good replacement (done with projectors), but am also a big gamer, so a "quick" display would be nice. I heard someone say that the lag on this tv wasn't bad at all, especially with the game mode turned on. That's a huge plus.

I just hope that the "red flashing" issue doesn't creep up on this tv since it's using the Bravia 2 engine. I personally don't know if that was the sole culprit of the color flashing issues in previous sets or not. Let's hope not.

Sony finally fixed the red flashing issue on the V5100 series by sending out a firmware patch to the users on the AVS V5100 board. The EX500 has not had any of the red flashing that plagued the V5100 and S5100.
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post #305 of 6195 Old 03-15-2010, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan134 View Post

I have no idea what is up with this set.

I have been using it for the last 3 hours and for the life of me cannot see the bleed anymore. Turned off all the lights, etc. Last night it looked bad, but it looks amazingly uniform right now. I could see the bleed on the V5100 during the day, btw.

So weird. I have decided to just live with it. Its a great set with an incredible picture and a low price tag. I am not going to let "intermittent" bleed detract from my enjoyment.

Any pics?

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post #306 of 6195 Old 03-15-2010, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by theheidis View Post

Looks like Best Buy has free delivery, setup, and recycling again for any TV over 999.

Yay!
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post #307 of 6195 Old 03-15-2010, 11:07 AM
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Just for the record:

I see a lot of people have issue with the "silver" bezel along the bottom. While I agree that all black is very nice the "silver" bezel is not objectionable in a normal viewing environment. In fact, the pics on the Sony site are misleading as it's not silver at all....it's gunmetal in color. It might seem bright under the harsh lights of a store because of the way the brushed finish of the bezel can pick up and reflect overhead lighting making it appear bright. In a room with a table top lamps though I find it barely noticeable unless I look for it.
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post #308 of 6195 Old 03-15-2010, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbaseuser View Post

This is great and all, but are they on par with, let's say a panny 750b? I always hear a tv has "really good black levels", but when I go to the store, it always seems the panasonics are the darkest (and I am referring to all ccfl lit tv's for comparison).

Keep in mind though when looking at a TV in a store....the backlight and contrast controls are usually cranked as high as they'll go to make the colors "pop" on a showroom floor.....this tends to wash the blacks out though as a consequence
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post #309 of 6195 Old 03-15-2010, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by 92miata View Post

the reasons costco and sams club have "different numbers" in their models are so you can't take our sign to a RETAIL store and get a price match and vice versa. they are the same tv except for some cosmetic changes. once you are in the know, you should ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS buy your tv's/electronics at costco. we simply have no competition on price/returns/warranty.

check on it yourself.....

Are the CEO or something ? Sorry to break your heart but I shop @ Best Buy..
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post #310 of 6195 Old 03-15-2010, 01:40 PM
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I'm not sure exactly how to describe this but in non HD programming I sometimes get a very small sliver of "empty" picture that looks like black and white fuzz or stripes about 2mm tall at the top of the picture. This only happens in old programs that are in SD and only while the TV is set to Full Pixel. When I choose normal or display newer or HD programs it isn't there.

It is not the source because I watched the same recorded show on my old 40" sammy before replacing it with the 501 yesterday.

Any thoughts?
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post #311 of 6195 Old 03-15-2010, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smiddleton5401 View Post

I'm not sure exactly how to describe this but in non HD programming I sometimes get a very small sliver of "empty" picture that looks like black and white fuzz or stripes about 2mm tall at the top of the picture. This only happens in old programs that are in SD and only while the TV is set to Full Pixel. When I choose normal or display newer or HD programs it isn't there.

It is not the source because I watched the same recorded show on my old 40" sammy before replacing it with the 501 yesterday.

Any thoughts?

I have the same thing. I think that SD programming is not compatible with Full Pixel. Blu-rays work fine, not sure about HD TV. I would have to try it. Not sure what settings I have for Cable HD. I thought maybe there was a little line or something with HD cable, I just use Full now I believe. Maybe some others can try it on their TV. I was thinking it was the cable box and how it outputs.
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post #312 of 6195 Old 03-15-2010, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by cbaseuser View Post

I just hope that the "red flashing" issue doesn't creep up on this tv since it's using the Bravia 2 engine. I personally don't know if that was the sole culprit of the color flashing issues in previous sets or not. Let's hope not.

I have a 52W4100 (2008 120hz set), BE2 and no red flashing. I absolutely love this TV. I often leave the 46Z5100 (BE3) in the bedroom to continue viewing the same progam on the 52W4100 in the family room, and I always think the W's PQ is better than the Z's... crazy huh?

I haven't researched much, but I've only read of the red flashing with the V and none of the other series.

I just looked at NBC HD via Comcast cable, no STB box, and again found the W to be superior to the Z. There were commercials in both HD and SD and the W consistently displayed a better picture on both... at least to my eyes.

Sony 52W4100 LCD, LG 42PG25 Plasma, Sony 46Z5100 LCD, Samsung 19D4000 LED, Samsung BD-P 2550, PS3 Slim, Sony BDP-S350, LG BD570, Panny DMR-EZ485V
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post #313 of 6195 Old 03-15-2010, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smiddleton5401 View Post

I'm not sure exactly how to describe this but in non HD programming I sometimes get a very small sliver of "empty" picture that looks like black and white fuzz or stripes about 2mm tall at the top of the picture. This only happens in old programs that are in SD and only while the TV is set to Full Pixel. When I choose normal or display newer or HD programs it isn't there.

It is not the source because I watched the same recorded show on my old 40" sammy before replacing it with the 501 yesterday.

Any thoughts?

That funky little line is in the source signal. It's been discussed in the forums in the past. It occurs when your TV is set to display the entire content of the signal, different brands have different names for this display setting; Sony calls this setting "Full".

Nothing to worry about.

Sony 52W4100 LCD, LG 42PG25 Plasma, Sony 46Z5100 LCD, Samsung 19D4000 LED, Samsung BD-P 2550, PS3 Slim, Sony BDP-S350, LG BD570, Panny DMR-EZ485V
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post #314 of 6195 Old 03-15-2010, 02:41 PM
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Yep nothing to be worried about its the source..
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post #315 of 6195 Old 03-15-2010, 03:08 PM
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Just returned from Best Buy and the EX500 and EX700 screens on display were disappointing in comparison to the Sammys and LGs surrounding them. I checked the settings and although it was set to Vivid, the PQ seemed overexposed, with grays instead of blacks and way too-soft colors. Just lowering the brightness and increasing the color level did wonders to improve the PQ. If Best Buy continues to display the Sonys like these, everyone's going to choose the Sammys.

Sony 52W4100 LCD, LG 42PG25 Plasma, Sony 46Z5100 LCD, Samsung 19D4000 LED, Samsung BD-P 2550, PS3 Slim, Sony BDP-S350, LG BD570, Panny DMR-EZ485V
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post #316 of 6195 Old 03-15-2010, 04:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbaseuser View Post

I'm basically looking for a good replacement (done with projectors), but am also a big gamer, so a "quick" display would be nice. I heard someone say that the lag on this tv wasn't bad at all, especially with the game mode turned on. That's a huge plus.

Yeah the lag when gaming is not bad at all. I hooked my Xbox 360 up to my 40EX500 and played some Gears of War 2. I was surprised by how little lag there was and I didn't even have the game mode on just motionflow set to standard. Gears is extremely fast paced and all my shots were coming out great. The only way I even noticed the lag was when I would reload my weapon but it was only slightly off. I'm sure if I turned motionflow off that would help even more but I just love the look of it. I'll try it with game mode on tonight and get back to you.
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post #317 of 6195 Old 03-15-2010, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chinee View Post

Just returned from Best Buy and the EX500 and EX700 screens on display were disappointing in comparison to the Sammys and LGs surrounding them. I checked the settings and although it was set to Vivid, the PQ seemed overexposed, with grays instead of blacks and way too-soft colors. Just lowering the brightness and increasing the color level did wonders to improve the PQ. If Best Buy continues to display the Sonys like these, everyone's going to choose the Sammys.

I notice this too. I own both a Samsung and a Sony and the Sony is a better set with better PQ (yeah, the Samsung is a couple years older, which doesn't help it).

I don't believe this is really the retailers fault, however, as generally the settings are preset by Sony with "Home" or "Retailer" options upon boot-up.

The Sonys looks terrible on "Retailer" and look only slightly better on "Home."

Once you turn the set off of "vivid" and level out the settings in standard mode, the set shines with excellent picture quality.
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post #318 of 6195 Old 03-15-2010, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by MikeJ927 View Post

Yeah the lag when gaming is not bad at all. I hooked my Xbox 360 up to my 40EX500 and played some Gears of War 2. I was surprised by how little lag there was and I didn't even have the game mode on just motionflow set to standard. Gears is extremely fast paced and all my shots were coming out great. The only way I even noticed the lag was when I would reload my weapon but it was only slightly off. I'm sure if I turned motionflow off that would help even more but I just love the look of it. I'll try it with game mode on tonight and get back to you.

That's great to hear. I think the only way to judge it is to try it at home. I have a Sony 46W3000 right now, (that I think looks great, but is too small for the room it is in) and I don't notice any lag at all. I find it odd that newer TVs would have this problem. I thought that thanks to technology that this wouldn't be the case. Is this an issue with newer TVs?
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post #319 of 6195 Old 03-15-2010, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by km23 View Post

That's great to hear. I think the only way to judge it is to try it at home. I have a Sony 46W3000 right now, (that I think looks great, but is too small for the room it is in) and I don't notice any lag at all. I find it odd that newer TVs would have this problem. I thought that thanks to technology that this wouldn't be the case. Is this an issue with newer TVs?

Actually it's getting worse every year because manufacturer add more processing in order to always improve PQ a little more.

Can someone please do a real input lag test? I'm eagerly waiting the results of such a test before I make my decision (probably between this one and the HX700).
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post #320 of 6195 Old 03-15-2010, 08:48 PM
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1st time poster, long time lurker. I just picked this set up on Saturday (kdl-55ex500) and was wondering if anyone had their sets calibrated yet and if so what settings they came up with. I've been toying with it but that happy medium is an elusive beast. Also I found that gaming is pretty much only usable on game mode. Even with it on there is the an ever so slight bit of lag but I'm not sure if this is because my xbox 360 is connected with component cables or a problem with the set itself. I can't test it with a hdmi cable because my console doesn't have the connector.
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post #321 of 6195 Old 03-15-2010, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Rob_Simpson View Post

1st time poster, long time lurker. I just picked this set up on Saturday (kdl-55ex500) and was wondering if anyone had their sets calibrated yet and if so what settings they came up with. I've been toying with it but that happy medium is an elusive beast. Also I found that gaming is pretty much only usable on game mode. Even with it on there is the an ever so slight bit of lag but I'm not sure if this is because my xbox 360 is connected with component cables or a problem with the set itself. I can't test it with a hdmi cable because my console doesn't have the connector.

From the other posts, looks like there is lag with HDMI as well. That's really frustrating. Was going to pick this TV and now I don't know what to do. Did you have a TV before that had a lag or not?
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post #322 of 6195 Old 03-15-2010, 10:47 PM
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I saw them at Pcrichards, but the sharp tvs look better then them. I was hoping to use either the KDL-32EX500 or KDL-32EX700 for tv/monitor combo. But probably try messing with settings next time I go look. But also worry about Sony having lag when gaming worries me alot
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post #323 of 6195 Old 03-15-2010, 10:47 PM
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Originally Posted by km23 View Post

From the other posts, looks like there is lag with HDMI as well. That's really frustrating. Was going to pick this TV and now I don't know what to do. Did you have a TV before that had a lag or not?

Nope, this is my first entry into hdtv land. Like I said, its only the slightest hint of lag so its definitely playable.
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post #324 of 6195 Old 03-15-2010, 11:19 PM
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Played twilight princess (Zelda) as well as carnival games on my wii tonight and it worked fine.

I'm not sure what kinds of games your playing that you'll notice lag on.

The only games I noticed lag was with the Guitar hero and rock band games. Once I calibrated the guitar, it works with no problem.

my ps3 is hooked hdmi and my wii and 360 are component. I love gaming on my 46ex500.
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post #325 of 6195 Old 03-16-2010, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Rob_Simpson View Post

1st time poster, long time lurker. I just picked this set up on Saturday (kdl-55ex500) and was wondering if anyone had their sets calibrated yet and if so what settings they came up with. ...

Menu settings are frequently mentioned on owner's threads. But if you mean professional calibration, that is a very different matter. This is done in the service menu and requires special training and equipment. If you mean the owner-accessable menu, then just read the thread but be aware that the settings for one set are not necessarily appropriate for another one even of the same model.
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post #326 of 6195 Old 03-16-2010, 07:59 AM
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I'm considering the KDL-32EX500. Does anyone know the following?:

1. What is the bit-depth of the panel? (Sony's site had this spec for last year's models but not for this year's)

2. Does it support true 24p? (meaning- when you turn off both cinemotion and motionflow and set your blu-ray player to 24p output, that the TV displays actual 24p or an exact multiple of 24p with no pulldown tricks or judder)

3. Does it have a 1:1 pixel mapping ("full pixel") mode?
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post #327 of 6195 Old 03-16-2010, 08:33 AM
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My blu-ray is set to 24p and I have motionflow and cinemotion off and my movies run great. Never noticed any issues with playback.

It's funny to me that all of the "Features" Sony advertises for the set ie. Cinemotion, Motionflow, ambient light sensor I have turned off. lol

I'm very pleased with the performance of this relatively inexpensive set. I know it isn't perfect but for my budget I'm very pleased.
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post #328 of 6195 Old 03-16-2010, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by belloq View Post

I'm considering the KDL-32EX500. Does anyone know the following?:

1. What is the bit-depth of the panel? (Sony's site had this spec for last year's models but not for this year's)

2. Does it support true 24p? (meaning- when you turn off both cinemotion and motionflow and set your blu-ray player to 24p output, that the TV displays actual 24p or an exact multiple of 24p with no pulldown tricks or judder)

3. Does it have a 1:1 pixel mapping ("full pixel") mode?

OK, I did not think they would be able to, but I positively confirmed all three of these specs with Sony tech support. 10-bit panel, yes 24p, yes full pixel.
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post #329 of 6195 Old 03-16-2010, 09:52 AM
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FYI, in another post it has been confirmed that the EX500/501's do output 5.1 audio from the optical audio output from the TV. This was asked a while ago and I do not think it was ever confirmed. No reason not to believe the post in the other thread. He did get his PlayStation to output 5.1 also.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1235250
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post #330 of 6195 Old 03-16-2010, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Hawk View Post

Just for the record:

I see a lot of people have issue with the "silver" bezel along the bottom. While I agree that all black is very nice the "silver" bezel is not objectionable in a normal viewing environment. In fact, the pics on the Sony site are misleading as it's not silver at all....it's gunmetal in color. It might seem bright under the harsh lights of a store because of the way the brushed finish of the bezel can pick up and reflect overhead lighting making it appear bright. In a room with a table top lamps though I find it barely noticeable unless I look for it.

I agree, I thought I'd have a problem with it but when setup on my new mount I hardly even notice it. I actually kind of like it, even though most of my home theater equipment are black.
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