Official KDL..EX500/501 Thread - Page 150 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4471 of 6211 Old 02-27-2011, 01:32 PM
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Can anyone comment if there is significant input lag and ghosting on the Ex500 60" model using a Xbox 360 or PS3? I really hope I didn't screw myself over by buying that model/size for my man cave.

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post #4472 of 6211 Old 02-27-2011, 03:02 PM
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Hello,
There is a Thread about Input Lag where on the 1st Post there was an EX500 performing poorly, but this was proved false by both Serial Mike and others.

It turns our the EX500 is one of the better TV's out there for Gaming. I think the Thread is a Sticky. Just input EX500 into Search This Thread when you get there.
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post #4473 of 6211 Old 02-27-2011, 09:11 PM
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Does anyone else see some light shining through on their 60"? Like maybe from the back lights them selfs. If there isn't anything on the screen there will be like 3 or 4 very light white horizontal stripes that go a crossed the screen. I can also see them on dark scenes. I am thinking about returning this set but I'm not sure if I should exchange it or replace it with a different set all together. Any thoughts?

Thanks,
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post #4474 of 6211 Old 02-27-2011, 09:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiodork View Post

Hello,
There is a Thread about Input Lag where on the 1st Post there was an EX500 performing poorly, but this was proved false by both Serial Mike and others.

It turns our the EX500 is one of the better TV's out there for Gaming. I think the Thread is a Sticky. Just input EX500 into Search This Thread when you get there.
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Okay thank you. I skimmed over the thread but soooo many posts in it. Just gotta keep reading.

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post #4475 of 6211 Old 02-27-2011, 10:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Audiodork View Post

Hello,
Here are the things I changed or are the same as Cnet's Settings, like I posted earlier Motionflow on for TV and all Sources routed through my Onkyo TX-NR3007, Backlight 2, Picture 96, Brightness 51, Color 50, Hue 0, Warm 2, Sharpness Min, NR off, MPEG off, all Advanced Settings off with the exception of Gamma being +2 and the White Balance changes I posted earlier. And if I did not Post prior, Full Pixel. Ambient Sensor off as well.

I would really recommend getting a Calibration Disc. HD Digital Video Essentials works well. As does Spears and Muncil and Avia. My Settings are still a work in progress, but on the whole I am quite pleased with them as is.
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I just got my 40ex500 on Sat and used Audiodorks settings. I must admit this tv is incredible. Watched Avatar and was totally blown away with the way it looks. I'm using Serial Mikes game settings and I'm really impressed. Haven't seen any lag on Call of duty black ops. Only issue I'm having is my pc having blur but i'm running a old pc with a nvidia 7600gt. I got lucky This set doesn't have any flashlighting on it. I would recommend this sony to everyone.

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post #4476 of 6211 Old 02-27-2011, 11:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stitch1 View Post

Does anyone else see some light shining through on their 60"? Like maybe from the back lights them selfs. If there isn't anything on the screen there will be like 3 or 4 very light white horizontal stripes that go a crossed the screen. I can also see them on dark scenes. I am thinking about returning this set but I'm not sure if I should exchange it or replace it with a different set all together. Any thoughts?

Thanks,

You mean like the lines I have in my 46EX500?

See my post:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=4427

for a picture of the lines.

I still haven't decided what to do with mine yet. I mean, I definitely am not keeping it because it's annoyingly unwatchable, but my recourse is complicated by the fact that the vendor doesn't have any in stock ... and I have no idea if they will be getting any. If they don't, I'll have to return the set for credit and then spend much more for an 'equivalent' (whatever that might be) since I got this one on sale. I'm going to wait as long as possible (given the return policy) to see if they restock before deciding how to proceed.

If I knew that Sony would replace the set with another brand new one (no refurbish) at no additional cost to me rather than attempting to fix it (panel replacement or whatever), I'd give them a call and skip the vendor. I just have no idea how Sony handles such things. It seems what they decide to provide could be as random as the quality assurance process utilized for manufacturing their TVs.
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post #4477 of 6211 Old 02-28-2011, 05:39 AM
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Yes Scatto its a lot like that. The store I bought it from still has a few lift in stock so I guess I will try the exchange and go from there. Thanks for posting.
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post #4478 of 6211 Old 02-28-2011, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Mantronix View Post

Can anyone comment if there is significant input lag and ghosting on the Ex500 60" model using a Xbox 360 or PS3? I really hope I didn't screw myself over by buying that model/size for my man cave.

I have yet to find a thread that shows significant input lag testing from 40" to 65" Televisions. What I have "read."

1. Size of TV matters above 37".
2. Make sure to have a Game Mode
3. Plasma does well for gaming
4. To much processing on your TV "while" gaming induces more latency or input lag. You know the all of the little picture options or adjustments set to on in your settings, while your gaming.
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post #4479 of 6211 Old 02-28-2011, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by norcal hd View Post

I have yet to find a thread that shows significant input lag testing from 40" to 65" Televisions. What I have "read."

1. Size of TV matters above 37".
2. Make sure to have a Game Mode
3. Plasma does well for gaming
4. To much processing on your TV "while" gaming induces more latency or input lag. You know the all of the little picture options or adjustments set to on in your settings, while your gaming.

Hello,
As far as Input Lag goes, Plasmas are indeed stellar, but there are still isolated issues of Burn In from things like the HUD in FPS Games and even the ESPN Logo. Check out the Panasonic VT25 for instances.

Plasmas have gotten much better and there are anti Screen Retention Modes offered, but some are still having issues with it.
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post #4480 of 6211 Old 03-01-2011, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mantronix View Post

Can anyone comment if there is significant input lag and ghosting on the Ex500 60" model using a Xbox 360 or PS3? I really hope I didn't screw myself over by buying that model/size for my man cave.

I have the 60EX500 and an XBOX360 & PS3. I have no ghosting/blurring after tweaking my settings. You must have it in "Game" mode and TURN OFF Motionflow and CineMotion. I mainly use this LCD for HD movies/sports and video gaming and the TV has lived up to all my expectations. Friends are amazed at how detailed/colorful and clear the PQ is.

Scatto & Stitch - I too have very faint "white lines" going across my screen (looks like 3 dim flourescent tubes going across) but again this is very faint and only visible on a blank screen. I do not notice this on black screens (i.e when a movie is starting and screen goes black) or when there is a picture displayed. Just curious, what are your brightness/backlight settings? I have my brightness at 50 and backlight at 4, picture at 90-95.

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post #4481 of 6211 Old 03-01-2011, 09:50 AM
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Scatto & Stitch - I too have very faint "white lines" going across my screen (looks like 3 dim flourescent tubes going across) but again this is very faint and only visible on a blank screen. I do not notice this on black screens (i.e when a movie is starting and screen goes black) or when there is a picture displayed. Just curious, what are your brightness/backlight settings? I have my brightness at 50 and backlight at 4, picture at 90-95.

To begin, my TV is calibrated using the AVS calibration disc which requires a brightness level of 53 to obtain proper black levels (bars 17-25 flashing per the black clipping test). Backlight is set to 2 (sometimes 3 / 4 depending on content and room brightness, but this is rare). Picture is set to 93.

The lines that are present on my panel are clearly visible regardless of those settings, i.e., even with very (unrealistically) low brightness, on a wide range of GRAY levels; they are NOT visible on pure black screens (but the flashlighting in the upper left / right corners is visible on black screens).

Further, the lines are visible in both static and dynamic scenes with low to mid-level lighting and are still visible in moderately bright scenes when panning (especially with vertical camera movements).

Believe me, if I could do anything to avoid returning this set, it has been tried, including modifying the viewing environment.

Thanks for the reply.
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post #4482 of 6211 Old 03-01-2011, 07:42 PM
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I had tried a few different settings and unfortunately I could always see the white bars. I settled on serialmike's settings with just a few small tweaks. The tv looked great on shows/movies with lots of color or were bright. When I watched something dark say Sin City or something with lots of contrast I could see them. The main issue I had was a bar almost dead center so any time someone was wearing a black outfit it would put a line through them. Anyways good news, I just got home from exchanging it and the new tv doesn't seem to have this flaw. My wife did try to talk me into an LG 60" 750 plasma. But I didn't want to give up on the Sony just yet. Lets just hope this one stays a winner. Thanks for the support!
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post #4483 of 6211 Old 03-01-2011, 07:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BDUB619 View Post


I have the 60EX500 and an XBOX360 & PS3. I have no ghosting/blurring after tweaking my settings. You must have it in "Game" mode and TURN OFF Motionflow and CineMotion. I mainly use this LCD for HD movies/sports and video gaming and the TV has lived up to all my expectations. Friends are amazed at how detailed/colorful and clear the PQ is.

Do you mind sharing your settings?

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post #4484 of 6211 Old 03-01-2011, 09:36 PM
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Could someone please give a brief explanation of what exactly Motionflow and Cinemotion do, I'm still alittle confused. I have a 55 ex500. Thanks
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post #4485 of 6211 Old 03-02-2011, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by kkameny View Post

Could someone please give a brief explanation of what exactly Motionflow and Cinemotion do, I'm still alittle confused. I have a 55 ex500. Thanks

They are kinda similar. Cinemotion is an older technology that converts the frame rate of your source material to one that the TV can display. Motionflow is a newer technology found on TVs that have high frame rate capability, like 120 or 240 Hz. It makes source material that has a low frame rate appear to have a higher frame rate by interpolating between frames, rather than just replicating them. So, essentially Cinemotions job is to make the picture on your TV look like the original source material, and MotionFlow is supposed to make it look better than original (but only if you like the smooth high frame rate look).
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post #4486 of 6211 Old 03-02-2011, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by kkameny View Post

Could someone please give a brief explanation of what exactly Motionflow and Cinemotion do, I'm still alittle confused. I have a 55 ex500. Thanks

Cinemotion is inverse telecine... it removes 3:2 pulldown from 30fps sources if it exists. That means Cinemotion does NOTHING to or for 24p Blu-ray or 30fps video sources. Unless you watch DVDs or movies on TV, Cinemotion does NOTHING. It recognized the 3:2 pulldown cadence and removes it. If there is no 3:2 pulldown cadence, Cinemotion does nothing. So essentially, Cinemotion turns DVDs (30 fps) and movies on TV (30fps) into 24p sources. The only difference between Auto1 and Auto2 is that Auto1 removes 3:2 pulldown and uses whatever Motionflow mode you have set. Auto2 only removes 3:2 jitter so frames are repeated 10 times (no new interpolated frames are inserted).
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post #4487 of 6211 Old 03-02-2011, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by hughh

Cinemotion is inverse telecine... it removes 3:2 pulldown from 30fps sources if it exists. That means Cinemotion does NOTHING to or for 24p Blu-ray or 30fps video sources. Unless you watch DVDs or movies on TV, Cinemotion does NOTHING. It recognized the 3:2 pulldown cadence and removes it. If there is no 3:2 pulldown cadence, Cinemotion does nothing. So essentially, Cinemotion turns DVDs (30 fps) and movies on TV (30fps) into 24p sources. The only difference between Auto1 and Auto2 is that Auto1 removes 3:2 pulldown and uses whatever Motionflow mode you have set. Auto2 only removes 3:2 jitter so frames are repeated 10 times (no new interpolated frames are inserted).
So how would motionflow and Cinemotion be used together? Seems like auto2 and no motionflow would be most realistic setting? I thought 3:2 pulldown was good.
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post #4488 of 6211 Old 03-02-2011, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by kkameny View Post
So how would motionflow and Cinemotion be used together? Seems like auto2 and no motionflow would be most realistic setting? I thought 3:2 pulldown was good.
"The Sony KDL40EX703 reproduced around 600 lines of motion resolution when the [Motionflow] setting was on either the Standard or High settings."

"Setting [Film Mode] to Auto1″ allows our Sony KDL40EX703 sample to interpolate motion to its heart's content, giving films the unnatural video feel. Auto2″ on the other hand protects against this, and using the Auto2″ [Film Mode] alongside the Motionflow system means that users can see films as intended, and with clear motion. We tested this with all three dominant input signal types: 24p, as well as 50hz and 60hz sources, and confirmed that with this configuration, all retained their filmic look. Excellent!"
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/sony-...0100724786.htm
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post #4489 of 6211 Old 03-02-2011, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by hughh View Post
"The Sony KDL40EX703 reproduced around 600 lines of motion resolution when the [Motionflow] setting was on either the Standard or High settings."

"Setting [Film Mode] to Auto1″ allows our Sony KDL40EX703 sample to interpolate motion to its heart's content, giving films the unnatural video feel. Auto2″ on the other hand protects against this, and using the Auto2″ [Film Mode] alongside the Motionflow system means that users can see films as intended, and with clear motion. We tested this with all three dominant input signal types: 24p, as well as 50hz and 60hz sources, and confirmed that with this configuration, all retained their filmic look. Excellent!"
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/sony-...0100724786.htm
Hence!, Hence I tell you, ,my change to Auto2 with standard motionflow many months ago . I stated exactly this and was resisted by many.
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post #4490 of 6211 Old 03-02-2011, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scatto View Post
To begin, my TV is calibrated using the AVS calibration disc which requires a brightness level of 53 to obtain proper black levels (bars 17-25 flashing per the black clipping test). Backlight is set to 2 (sometimes 3 / 4 depending on content and room brightness, but this is rare). Picture is set to 93.

The lines that are present on my panel are clearly visible regardless of those settings, i.e., even with very (unrealistically) low brightness, on a wide range of GRAY levels; they are NOT visible on pure black screens (but the flashlighting in the upper left / right corners is visible on black screens).

Further, the lines are visible in both static and dynamic scenes with low to mid-level lighting and are still visible in moderately bright scenes when panning (especially with vertical camera movements).

Believe me, if I could do anything to avoid returning this set, it has been tried, including modifying the viewing environment.

Thanks for the reply.
The problem is brightness 53 is way to high. Defualt 50 is proper. But, and its a huge but. The white balance must be adjusted properly for you to see all the proper detail. The White Balance does indeed intermingle with brightness on this set. Months back this was painfully tested by me. Raising your brightness will show all kinds of defects due to its set to high.
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post #4491 of 6211 Old 03-02-2011, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by serialmike View Post

Hence!, Hence I tell you, ,my change to Auto2 with standard motionflow many months ago . I stated exactly this and was resisted by many.

Mike,

Where have you been, man? Missed your posts! Still using your latest setting. Best of all time by far.
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post #4492 of 6211 Old 03-02-2011, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by serialmike View Post

The problem is brightness 53 is way to high. Defualt 50 is proper. But, and its a huge but. The white balance must be adjusted properly for you to see all the proper detail. The White Balance does indeed intermingle with brightness on this set. Months back this was painfully tested by me. Raising your brightness will show all kinds of defects due to its set to high.

Firstly, the lines were visible before I ever touched any custom settings.

Furthermore, I have the Advanced Settings -> White Balance adjusted to get accurate color rendition. I cannot understand all the rage around here for red-orange / yellow-tinted whites ... every Sony I've had has been overly biased to red / yellow / orange in all presets available. In other words, 'Neutral' on the 3 EX400s and the 1 EX500 I've had in my possession is nowhere near neutral. Nowhere.

Anyway, the '53' setting here allows for proper black clipping. Brightness set to '53', in conjunction with the other settngs, on the EX500 example in my possession, is not "way too high". It is what it should be. It is an inarguable point. I have the TV, I have the calibration disc, and I know what setting is required to get the black levels properly set. If you want to state that the AVS calibration disc is inaccurate, then that's up to you.

Finally, as I said, and which you disregard, I have lowered the brightness setting beyond anything that is reasonable in order to see at what point the visibility of the lines disappear. They do not disappear.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt since so many people find your posts helpful, but I often find them a little condescending. Would I not have tried everything possible (as I stated that I have), especially the obvious 'solution' you posted, before going to the extreme trouble of returning / shipping a TV that I got on sale and which can't currently be replaced by the vendor?

There are Sony HDTVs (lots) that have defects that cannot be fixed by simply adjusting the available controls or manipulating the environment in which they are set-up ... and, in contradiction to your assessment, THAT is the problem here.

Thanks.
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post #4493 of 6211 Old 03-02-2011, 09:18 PM
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I do like serialmike's settings but I am going to have to stand up for scatto here. I tried to turn everything way down and my lines would always show. I think it was just something within the pannel. I don't see them on my new tv. Also not every tv is going to need the same changes for calibration. I would think they should be close but every tv and environment is different.
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post #4494 of 6211 Old 03-03-2011, 01:21 AM
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Hey guys, so I purchased a 40ex500 last Friday. Everything was going well until recently. As I was about to shut off my tv with the power button located on the tv itself. I noticed that they were a few bright dots in the shape of a crescent. This is while the tv is on and in a blank black screen. Are these dead pixels? Is it possible that I caused these dead pixels? FYI, tvs never endured physical harm.
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post #4495 of 6211 Old 03-03-2011, 05:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scatto View Post


Firstly, the lines were visible before I ever touched any custom settings.

Furthermore, I have the Advanced Settings -> White Balance adjusted to get accurate color rendition. I cannot understand all the rage around here for red-orange / yellow-tinted whites ... every Sony I've had has been overly biased to red / yellow / orange in all presets available. In other words, 'Neutral' on the 3 EX400s and the 1 EX500 I've had in my possession is nowhere near neutral. Nowhere.

Anyway, the '53' setting here allows for proper black clipping. Brightness set to '53', in conjunction with the other settngs, on the EX500 example in my possession, is not "way too high". It is what it should be. It is an inarguable point. I have the TV, I have the calibration disc, and I know what setting is required to get the black levels properly set. If you want to state that the AVS calibration disc is inaccurate, then that's up to you.

Finally, as I said, and which you disregard, I have lowered the brightness setting beyond anything that is reasonable in order to see at what point the visibility of the lines disappear. They do not disappear.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt since so many people find your posts helpful, but I often find them a little condescending. Would I not have tried everything possible (as I stated that I have), especially the obvious 'solution' you posted, before going to the extreme trouble of returning / shipping a TV that I got on sale and which can't currently be replaced by the vendor?

There are Sony HDTVs (lots) that have defects that cannot be fixed by simply adjusting the available controls or manipulating the environment in which they are set-up ... and, in contradiction to your assessment, THAT is the problem here.

Thanks.

I also own a 55EX500 and have calibrated my set with DVE as well as a couple other disks..IMHO 53 is a tad high on my EX and found 50 to 51 a perfect balance. I also find 53 high. And I never met a TV as far as LCD or Plasma to give perfect temp settings out of the box and with that I found Warm2 to be closest to where the 55 needs to be.
Also, IMHO, there is no way to get White Balance perfect or close to it without equipment..
Also, I had to chime in since I have known SerialMike for a while now on this thread as well as others and aside from his always willing to help attitude as well as the numerous times he's shared what he has found to be a proper calibration in no way seems condescending.
Everyone in here needs to realize that even if the beat-all professional does all he can to calibrate a set, after you put that set in a different environment it will be not calibrated for that room.
As the saying goes, take what you can and leave the rest!

Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others.
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post #4496 of 6211 Old 03-03-2011, 07:07 AM
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i have said it before that you can't simply take someone else's settings

you can use them as a starting point and adjust from there (except white balance, in my opinion)
you are better served to use a calibration disk

also depending on content your setting may look off
ex - most tv dramas are way to dark to begin with and really challenge your black levels
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post #4497 of 6211 Old 03-03-2011, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by StuBerger View Post

I also own a 55EX500 and have calibrated my set with DVE as well as a couple other disks..IMHO 53 is a tad high on my EX and found 50 to 51 a perfect balance. I also find 53 high. And I never met a TV as far as LCD or Plasma to give perfect temp settings out of the box and with that I found Warm2 to be closest to where the 55 needs to be.
Also, IMHO, there is no way to get White Balance perfect or close to it without equipment..
Also, I had to chime in since I have known SerialMike for a while now on this thread as well as others and aside from his always willing to help attitude as well as the numerous times he's shared what he has found to be a proper calibration in no way seems condescending.
Everyone in here needs to realize that even if the beat-all professional does all he can to calibrate a set, after you put that set in a different environment it will be not calibrated for that room.
As the saying goes, take what you can and leave the rest!

The condescension issue is based on telling people what their problem is without regard for what the person being addressed may know or what that person may have already communcated in contradiction of his assessment. Nevermind the fact that every set, as you say and as I have said in agreement, can be different. It has happened more than once to others with whom I have empathized, so I suppose i was quick to point it out when it happpened to me personally.

Regarding the 'Brightness' setting: if I adjust my 46EX500 to '50' Brightness, bars 21-25 on the AVS black clipping test are the only ones visible (maybe bar 20 if you squint really hard). The visibility of the bars, of course, changes depending on whether one is viewing on-axis or off-axis.

Regarding color temp: I agree that it would be unusual for color temp to be dead-on out-of-the-box, but I think Sony really loves 'WARM'. I'm a photographer, and I cannot tolerate color casts ... I don't like my black and white to look Sepia-toned unless the director intended it that way. For me, with the several Sonys I've had, it's almost out of the range of user-settable controls to get balanced without clipping one or more color components, but I've been satisfied with what I've achieved.

My main complaint has been flashlighting (mostly I've been able to deal with that via environment set-up but wish I didn't have to), and the unfixable lines under discussion here. The EX400s in my experience have vertical line issues with the Samsung panels, and it seems that the EX500 has horizontal line issues. Depending on the set, the lines may be invisible during content viewing, or they may be visible. Unfortuinately, on my EX500, they are very visible.
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post #4498 of 6211 Old 03-03-2011, 03:55 PM
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55EX500 drowning out or attenuating signal from remote?

I replaced my rear-projection Sony SXRD XBR1 with the 55EX500 last week. The new TV works well, but I have noticed a significant drop-off in the reliability of my remote control since the upgrade. I use a Harmony 880 remote and have television service through AT&T U-verse.

This remote previously operated the U-verse system without any issues and would work at pretty much any angle and even through a blanket. Now, about a quarter of the button presses are not registered, even when aiming the remote directly at the U-verse box from a short distance (8 feet).

I also use a home theater PC with an IR receiver, which has been similarly affected. The HTPC IR receiver has a red LED which lights up every time it detects a signal from a remote control. When the TV is off, this red LED will illuminate randomly every now and then as it detects stray EM signals in the air. When the TV is turned on, this red LED flickers on and off madly.

It's clear that the new Sony TV is somehow interfering with the remote signal. Has anyone else noticed this? Is this normal? I have not had time to test if this affects all remotes equally or if the the Harmony remote is somehow more susceptible to this.
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post #4499 of 6211 Old 03-04-2011, 05:34 AM
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fiveolddogs, no problem with my Harmony 720. No explanation for your issues.
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post #4500 of 6211 Old 03-04-2011, 07:46 AM
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Something for gamers with the ex500. Does using VGA reduce inputlag in comparison with HDMI? I mean maybe the VGA input usses less image processing?
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