Official KDL..EX500/501 Thread - Page 191 - AVS Forum
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post #5701 of 6195 Old 10-10-2011, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by midnight77 View Post

I sanyone helpful going to give me suggestions on reducing noise? All I know to do is lower sharpness and increase noise reduction. Both of which obviously have other bad effects also.

DTV is a noisy signal to begin with. Very noisy. On any tv I have had but...

On custom Sharpness no higher than 2, sharpness 1 optimal.
Custom white balance. The white balance introduces ALOT of noise if set at default. At least try mine just to see. With Fios, Games or blurays there is nothing nada no noise on my set.

Are you running composite?component?hdmi to the set. If you are running hd are you set to 1080i. Is your screen settings properly set. for HD you should set to full pixel. Though sometimes hd cable can be off centered where you see screen edge. This does produce the least noise because there is no scaling.
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post #5702 of 6195 Old 10-10-2011, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by midnight77 View Post

I think what the bottom line is, is this tv is not good at cleaning up source material which has artifacts. So one could technically blame the source material, but that doesn't mean much when all other tvs I have tried did a better job getting rid of it.

Since I am probably going to buy an oppo 93, that probably means this tv would be fine for discs. I would just not have good picture for directv though.

I own an OPPO 83SE and also am hooked to directv which looks fabuloso. I'm still not understanding what "artifacts" you're referring to. The only time I've noticed any artifacts is when I've turned the motionflow and cinemotion to the setting that gives me that soap opera effect (120 hz?) and serious artifacting was only really discernable on the movie RED. Otherwise, I've seen none of these artifacts unless, as you pointed out, they're in the source material. This TV isn't "magic" and it won't clean up bad material.

I'm also at a loss as to why you're still trying to "fix" this TV when you just said yourself and I quote;
"all other tvs I have tried did a better job getting rid of it."
Seems to me that if there are TVs out there more to your liking, then one would figure that you would simply return this TV and get one that pleases you because I don't think you're ever gonna get it to do what you're expecting. At least not from what I've been able to gather from your comments made in the many posts on this subject.

We like to think that we're a helpful bunch of enthusiasts here and approach problems eagerly. But it's seeming more and more like your problem is beyond our scope of expertise and I would advise you to turn your efforts elsewhere as it just doesn't seem like we're gonna be able to help you on this one.

Sorry!

BTW; did you try serialmike's motionflow and cinemotion settings and still get the artifacting?

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post #5703 of 6195 Old 10-10-2011, 05:17 PM
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Ooops!
Looks like I missed the last page of posts before posting that last comment.

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post #5704 of 6195 Old 10-10-2011, 07:20 PM
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Going back to the discussion! Has anyone hooked up their ex500 to Dish or google tv? I think with dish, the quality is good if you have calibrated settings. Google Tv is still a work in progress, I think.
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post #5705 of 6195 Old 10-10-2011, 09:17 PM
 
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serialmike, es I am using hdmi and on other tvs I sure never noticed this much. Whe I say artifacts I mean basically snow. When the picture is ALL bright you can't see any, but as soon as a dark scene shows up it's all over the place.

An example is the baseball playoffs. I watched a little earlier and looked at it withyvarious settings and there was so much of that in the dark areas that it looked worse than SD looked on my old tv. I haven't yet tried your settings, but with the CNET white balance it looked abd still and also you changed your white balance between the teo sets of settings so that shows it's not easy to pin down what works for those.

I never use any of the motion features. And as far as sharpness, I tried it on minimum, 1, 2, etc..., but first off I don't recall it eliminating this and secondly it made the pioture too bad to look at. I ahd to sharpen it back up or I wouldn't have even cared to watch tv on it.
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post #5706 of 6195 Old 10-10-2011, 09:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by midnight77 View Post

serialmike, es I am using hdmi and on other tvs I sure never noticed this much. Whe I say artifacts I mean basically snow. When the picture is ALL bright you can't see any, but as soon as a dark scene shows up it's all over the place.

An example is the baseball playoffs. I watched a little earlier and looked at it withyvarious settings and there was so much of that in the dark areas that it looked worse than SD looked on my old tv. I haven't yet tried your settings, but with the CNET white balance it looked abd still and also you changed your white balance between the teo sets of settings so that shows it's not easy to pin down what works for those.

I never use any of the motion features. And as far as sharpness, I tried it on minimum, 1, 2, etc..., but first off I don't recall it eliminating this and secondly it made the pioture too bad to look at. I ahd to sharpen it back up or I wouldn't have even cared to watch tv on it.

Ok, heres the deal. 1 or 2 is incredibly sharp. way sharper than a plasma screen. It isnt as sharp as an overprocessed samsung which is capable or jacking sharpness up a ton and not getting artifacts. What samsung does do is turn photos or videos into images that look like computer graphics due to over sharpening.

1 or 2 thats it. after that you will see artifacts. the cnet settings suck. worst settings available. If your in cinema mode you WILL get more artifacts than custom or standard.

This set is more sensitive than some others. bad signal will easily be seen on this set. On the other side of that is excellent signal will look mindblowing.

If you tried these things and you dont like it return it. Your not going to make the set do something it cant. Your tendancy for liking a way over blown sharp image(which is fine its your set after all) leads me to believe you want a samsung set.
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post #5707 of 6195 Old 10-10-2011, 10:09 PM
 
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I am not necessarily comparing to samsung though. I am comparing with my old sony (40v2500).

That being said I am watching jay leno on my dvr right now and it looks crystal clear with no artifacts anywhere. So no doubt it all comes down to signal. But some other sets such as higher end SOnys can "fix" the signal just as the oppo 93 can.

And to the guy who said "buy them then", I had issues with my eyes and head with the sony led so thus why i am trying the CCFLs.

I still have a feeling even the blu ray quality will be worse ont his than the 40v2500, but hard to know.

I'll just see what I can do. Other than this I may try a samsung plasma and panasonic plasma and there's not much else to try. If only the processing on this tv were better it would be great. I would have paid $300 more just for better processing.
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post #5708 of 6195 Old 10-10-2011, 10:23 PM
 
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By the way, for those who think I just keep sayign negatives, I did mention before that the viewing angle is MUCH better than the sony hx820 and thus I assume the 929 also.

I just don';t understand why FOX would have bad source though. rememebr the other show I said looked bad was the x factor, also on fox (720 p, but that should still be good enough unlike this result).

One thing I should do is go somewehre that will have the games on all tvs and then I can see if any seem to get rid of it more than others.

Do you agree that the oppos do good at cleaning up source material though? The reviews for the 92 basically say its greatest strength is standard dvd picture quality.

edit: I just lugged my old 40v2500 over and connected the directv receiver to it to compare and it indeed showed a lot of noise on the same content. One reason i didn't notice it before was probably due to it being 40 inches and this is 46.

If I feel like it I may move the receiver to connect it to the hx820 I havent yet returned. But I can almost guarantee it won't have as much noise on it.

Someone suggested the samsung 550 to me so I may check that out in a walmart and see if it looks any different as far as clarity. I hate the possibility of more light leakage thoguh.
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post #5709 of 6195 Old 10-11-2011, 12:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by midnight77 View Post

An example is the baseball playoffs. I watched a little earlier and looked at it withyvarious settings and there was so much of that in the dark areas that it looked worse than SD looked on my old tv. I haven't yet tried your settings, but with the CNET white balance it looked abd still and also you changed your white balance between the teo sets of settings so that shows it's not easy to pin down what works for those.


FOX or TBS? Fox didn't have the best picture, but to me TBS was some of the best I've seen... it made me feel just like the first time I ever saw HDTV back in 1998.

You still can't select FULL PIXEL? Something tells me maybe your STB isn't set to 1080i... did you check all the settings to make sure you're really getting HD?
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post #5710 of 6195 Old 10-11-2011, 02:07 AM
 
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The display button on the tv says it's 1080i (for tbs). The directv receiver is set to show any resolution up to 1080p depending on source. Not sure why that full pixel option is missing. Another dod thing is when I first started using the set 4:3 content was stretching when the tv was in full mode. I had to switch it to normal mode. Then later I switched it back to full mode and now it works as far as 4:3 looking right. But still no full pixel option.

As I test the tv more, I realize it's not that the tv is bad, but it's THE SAME as my old one. this tv is basically exactly the same as my 40v2500, but 6 inches bigger and a few minor changes. It has 120hz refresh vs. my 60hz, but it is not eevbn noticeable as this still deosn't have great motion in my opinion. I played rock band 3 on game mode (my tv doesn't even have game mode) and it was horribly laggy to the same extent as my 40v2500. (the hx820 was much much better than either set at game lag). This set has 4 hdmi inputs compared to my old one's 2. It also supports 24p playback, whereas the other doesn't (thus directv 1080p isn't supported on mine, but is on this one).

Other than those few minor differences it's the same tv with pretty much the same picture quality. I just feel like I should get more improvement from my other tv when I spend money for a new one.

If plasmas don't end up being "my thing" then I'll probably have to keep this, but it just feels like not enough improvement over my old one. Which is probably a compliment to my old one more than a negative aboutt his one. But the 820 was defintiely above either of these EXCEPT it's horrible viewing angle ruined it.

So bottom line is I have to practically pray the plasma will do it for me because 1. I could then get 3D, 2. I could get 5 inches tacked on, and 3. I wouldn't have to worry about viewing angle anymore.

If I do have to keep this one it's at least better than the drawbacks of leds though. And I am still hoping to improve this one. I could never hget my 40v2500 calibrated either. I suck at calibrating partly due to me liking something between realism and vivid colors.

edit: it was FOX. But I watched the office and conan on TBS nad there was some of this from time to time, especially in the Office. I don't know if this episode was originally HD or if some of the office episodes were not in HD and tbs used their fake hd on that.

I think maybe the only way to improve on the tv much is to get a glossy screen... which i do hate, but that may be the only way to really go much better in contrast, sharpness, etc.
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post #5711 of 6195 Old 10-11-2011, 04:30 AM
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Although we keep asking, you keep evading the question.

Have you used all of serialmike's settings yet? Until you do, how can you know how good the EX500 can be?
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post #5712 of 6195 Old 10-11-2011, 04:35 AM
 
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I did answer. i said I have not.

I now ordered a plasma so one of these will have to go back, if not both. We'll see what happens. i can't keep buying so many tvs because 1. it's a headache and 2. stores would start getting mad.

This tv justs eems too similar to my old one. I even read in the input lag thread where it hinted at it being very abd for it, as I did experience earlier. If i were going from a non-1080p tv to it I would be happy, but I am going from a tv almost exactly like this one.

I'll try his settings later though before I get the plasma. That way I will ahve a better idea whether or nott his is still a possibility.
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post #5713 of 6195 Old 10-11-2011, 05:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by midnight77 View Post

I did answer. i said I have not.

I now ordered a plasma so one of these will have to go back, if not both. We'll see what happens. i can't keep buying so many tvs because 1. it's a headache and 2. stores would start getting mad.

This tv justs eems too similar to my old one. I even read in the input lag thread where it hinted at it being very abd for it, as I did experience earlier. If i were going from a non-1080p tv to it I would be happy, but I am going from a tv almost exactly like this one.

I'll try his settings later though before I get the plasma. That way I will ahve a better idea whether or nott his is still a possibility.

The set by todays standards is a very very good set for lag. It runs about 40ms in game or graphics mode. I play MW2 Blops online I did switch to custom mode without cinemotion and motionflow off. They MUST be off for gaming. Anyway when doing this I didn't get any worse at the game. K/D is still good.


Word of advice from someone that since 04 has had to many sets
50 panny plasma (dont remember the number returned it fast
50 pioneerr elite 1020
50 sxrd xbr2
55a2000
54 pannyg10
60ex500

These are all top notch sets for image. I hated each and every one of them at one point. Till I got to the ex500. The ex500 is easily the best of them all overall. But If I wanted to I could hate this set too.

If you look for the negatives you'll find em. On every and all sets. If you look for the positives you'll enjoy any and all sets.

Another piece of advice is with each and every set your going to learn more and more about image quality, motion, processing etc.

Its going to get easier and easier to hate a set and harder and harder to love one.

For example your own original set was great for years around 5 or 6 if I remember when the v2500 was out. Now a similar same set with incredibly better black level doesnt seem to do it for you. Also of note is the size thing. When going big you WILL see more defects in image and lose sharpness. A 60 is going to look soft next to a 55 and 46 is going to look soft next to a 40. Turning up the sharpness doesnt fix that.
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post #5714 of 6195 Old 10-11-2011, 05:10 AM
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I have to be honest...this is getting pretty funny...

Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others.
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post #5715 of 6195 Old 10-11-2011, 05:30 AM
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Quote:
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I have to be honest...this is getting pretty funny...

Yep, serialmike has the patience of a saint. He keeps trying to help and his advice keeps getting ignored. Very sad.
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post #5716 of 6195 Old 10-11-2011, 06:07 AM
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Mike is such a trooper!

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post #5717 of 6195 Old 10-11-2011, 06:50 AM
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Originally Posted by StuBerger View Post

I have to be honest...this is getting pretty funny...

If they had one of them eating popcorn emoticons here, I'd use it about now.

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post #5718 of 6195 Old 10-11-2011, 07:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanla View Post

Going back to the discussion! Has anyone hooked up their ex500 to Dish or google tv? I think with dish, the quality is good if you have calibrated settings. Google Tv is still a work in progress, I think.

I'm not familiar with google tv but I do have directv (same as dish signal wise) and can say without question that correct callibration makes a HUGE difference. Using some of the supplied settings in "Vivid" or "Sports" make this TV display like a torch in a mineshaft........ waaaaay too bright with cooked colors as well. Using serialmikes latest settings, watching satellite channels are awesome with sports looking very impressive as well.

After re-callibrating this TV last week, I was watching some baseball when Wifey came out to the cave. She sat down and was stunned as to how good it looked....... said it was almost like being there. She rarely takes notice of these kinds of things.

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post #5719 of 6195 Old 10-11-2011, 07:09 AM
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@midnight77,
As I stated before, I have an OPPO 83SE. The 93 is in essence the same quality video chip other than it also provides 3-D if that's important to you. Both the ABT and Q-deo chips found in these machines are highly regarded as being some of the best video processors for sd DVD and pretty much can't be beat for blu-ray as well.

You can't go wrong with OPPO and the EX500 displays an excellent picture when hooked to one of them.

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post #5720 of 6195 Old 10-11-2011, 07:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torqdog View Post

I'm not familiar with google tv but I do have directv (same as dish signal wise) and can say without question that correct callibration makes a HUGE difference. Using some of the supplied settings in "Vivid" or "Sports" make this TV display like a torch in a mineshaft........ waaaaay too bright with cooked colors as well. Using serialmikes latest settings, watching satellite channels are awesome with sports looking very impressive as well.

After re-callibrating this TV last week, I was watching some baseball when Wifey came out to the cave. She sat down and was stunned as to how good it looked....... said it was almost like being there. She rarely takes notice of these kinds of things.

Tordog, I agree. Unfornuately I have a 40 inch and not a 60, so therefore mike's settings do not work no my set. The settings make the pic have a reddish quality to them. I have already professional calibrated my TV and mike's settings almost match my settings for 40. Mine remove the reddish cast and provide a proper natural image. albeit the mode is in warm 2. I would agree with Mike that the 60 may have some unique issues, unlike the 55 and 40.
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post #5721 of 6195 Old 10-11-2011, 08:49 AM
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Has anyone taken serialmike's *new* 60EX500 settings, *TWEAKED THEM* and applied these to their 40EX500? Anything cool happen? I am curious as I have the 40EX500.
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post #5722 of 6195 Old 10-11-2011, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanla View Post

Tordog, I agree. Unfornuately I have a 40 inch and not a 60, so therefore mike's settings do not work no my set. The settings make the pic have a reddish quality to them. I have already professional calibrated my TV and mike's settings almost match my settings for 40. Mine remove the reddish cast and provide a proper natural image. albeit the mode is in warm 2. I would agree with Mike that the 60 may have some unique issues, unlike the 55 and 40.

Can you extrapolate on your 40EX500 differences since you said serialmike's settings are close? It sounds as though you are saying your settings on your 40EX500 are the same as serialmike's 60EX500 but main difference is using Warm2? I would think that Warm2 would give you the 'reddish cast' as you put it.
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post #5723 of 6195 Old 10-11-2011, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by augmental View Post

Can you extrapolate on your 40EX500 differences since you said serialmike's settings are close? It sounds as though you are saying your settings on your 40EX500 are the same as serialmike's 60EX500 but main difference is using Warm2? I would think that Warm2 would give you the 'reddish cast' as you put it.

Augumental, I would highly suggest you use my settings for the 40 as your size and my size are the same. Mike' overall settings are different compared to mine, for example his picture and brightness are low and set a hue to balance the secondary colors. For the 40 none of this is needed as the wb will fix the slight red tinge issue.

Here are my settings:
Calibrated 40ex500 with Konica-Minolta CS-200.
Scene: Custom
Backlight: min to 3
Picture: 90
Brightness:54
Color: 45 to 48 (anything above will create unatural flesh tones)
Warm 2
Sharpness:min
Hue: 0
NR: 0ff
MNR: 0ff
Motion Flow: Standard/High
Cine Motion: Auto 2

Advanced Settings:
ACE: Off
BC: Off
Gamma: -1
CW: Off
LC: Off

WB:
RG: -20
GG: -4
BG:0
RB:-3
GB:0
BB:-3
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post #5724 of 6195 Old 10-11-2011, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by augmental View Post

Can you extrapolate on your 40EX500 differences since you said serialmike's settings are close? It sounds as though you are saying your settings on your 40EX500 are the same as serialmike's 60EX500 but main difference is using Warm2? I would think that Warm2 would give you the 'reddish cast' as you put it.

Augumental, one other thing about Mike's versus mine:

For example last night Starz HD had blade 2 playing, in the dark scenes with my settings you can see the black areas and shadows. Blade went into the sewer to hunt the reapers, I was able to see the details of the sewers in the dark scene, with Mike's it was hard to discern these details. Also with face close-ups, I am able to see pimples and skin pores with my settings. Mike's settings have a red tinge so it is hard to view detail.

I am not saying that Mike's settings are bad or wrong, I am sure for the 60 inch they will work fine but for the 40 it maybe a different issue.

Also when it comes to calibration, there are many things to take in detail like lighting and your home theater setup in relation to lighting. What works for Mike or me may not work for you. So I would suggest to use Mikes or mine has a basis for tweaking.
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post #5725 of 6195 Old 10-11-2011, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanla View Post

Augumental, one other thing about Mike's versus mine:

For example last night Starz HD had blade 2 playing, in the dark scenes with my settings you can see the black areas and shadows. Blade went into the sewer to hunt the reapers, I was able to see the details of the sewers in the dark scene, with Mike's it was hard to discern these details. Also with face close-ups, I am able to see pimples and skin pores with my settings. Mike's settings have a red tinge so it is hard to view detail.

I am not saying that Mike's settings are bad or wrong, I am sure for the 60 inch they will work fine but for the 40 it maybe a different issue.

Also when it comes to calibration, there are many things to take in detail like lighting and your home theater setup in relation to lighting. What works for Mike or me may not work for you. So I would suggest to use Mikes or mine has a basis for tweaking.

Awesome! Thank you Vanla! I will be giving your settings a shot either tonight or tomorrow depending on how work goes.
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post #5726 of 6195 Old 10-11-2011, 01:06 PM
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Vanla,

Why start with Warm2, which is very red, then back way off on the R gain instead of starting with Warm1 which is much less red to begin with? Mike did the same and I don't understand why.
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post #5727 of 6195 Old 10-11-2011, 01:30 PM
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Like I said, please return it. Otherwise you just come off sounding like a troll.

too late . . . .
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post #5728 of 6195 Old 10-11-2011, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by mdavej View Post

Vanla,

Why start with Warm2, which is very red, then back way off on the R gain instead of starting with Warm1 which is much less red to begin with? Mike did the same and I don't understand why.

Mdavej,
This is a good question. When the calibration was done with warm 2, r and g had to be reduced in order to balance the b-gain. B-gain technically for this set has to be increased but you can only decrease based on the settings. Warm 2 for the 40 inch is the ideal setting and with Mike's neutral settings and wb it come pretty close to 40 inch calibrated settings.
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post #5729 of 6195 Old 10-11-2011, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Vanla View Post

Mdavej,
This is a good question. When the calibration was done with warm 2, r and g had to be reduced in order to balance the b-gain. B-gain technically for this set has to be increased but you can only decrease based on the settings. Warm 2 for the 40 inch is the ideal setting and with Mike's neutral settings and wb it come pretty close to 40 inch calibrated settings.

Vanla, might as well ask...are you doing anything special with the GAME setting? I just play PS3 and watch Blu rays on this set.
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post #5730 of 6195 Old 10-11-2011, 02:00 PM
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Vanla, might as well ask...are you doing anything special with the GAME setting? I just play PS3 and watch Blu rays on this set.

Augumental:
My gaming settings are pretty much my calibrated settings. There is slight lag but not too bad.
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