Official KDL..EX500/501 Thread - Page 208 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #6211 of 6235 Old 09-06-2015, 09:44 AM
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Still perfect. No plans to replace until it dies of natural causes. Will probably still be years until 4k is really mainstream. Just like DVD, 1080p BD is going to be around for a long time and still looks very good to my old eyes. My EX500 happened to cost only $200 as it was a warranty replacement for my $3000 SXRD at the time (4 years ago). So I still want to get several more years out (5 at least) of that money I spent nearly 10 years ago. I completely missed the 3D craze. Hopefully 8k will be out when my EX500 dies, then I can pick up a 4k set on the cheap.
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post #6212 of 6235 Old 09-09-2015, 02:10 PM
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I'd like five more years from mine as well. (bought in 2010) Still on minimal backlight and quasi-cinema settings, works great.

My first LCD HDTV (a 32" Viewsonic) barely lasted three years before I dumped it.
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post #6213 of 6235 Old 09-13-2015, 11:33 AM
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On my 55EX500, I messed with the Factory Mode White Balance Values to achieve a well calibrated picture for Picture Modes unable to change white balance in their respective modes (i.e. Game mode). Accessing the Factory Mode White Balance Menu is easy. With the TV on, press (LEFT)>(RIGHT)>(MUTING)>(CENTER)>(MUTING)>(MENU). I changed the values to Warm2 as follows:

R Gain: 408 (down from 443)
G Gain: 370 (up from 366)
B Gain: 136 (down from 161)
R Offset: 524 (up from 515)
G Offset: 518 (down from 518)
B Offset: 498 (down from 501)

With these values as the new baseline for Warm 2 across all picture modes, it will be easier to achieve a calibrated picture in each picture mode. There are only 2 Picture Modes I really worry about, Game-Original (for reduced input lag) and Custom (for Blu-ray viewing). I'll be able to test input lag soon with a Leo Bodnar device for precise measurements across all modes and HDMI inputs. Here are the settings for both Picture Modes. These settings will only work if you change the white balance values in factory mode.

Picture Mode: Game Original
Backlight: Min
Picture: 96
Brightness: 51
Color: 53
Hue: R1
Color Temperature: Warm 2
Sharpness: 2
Ambient Sensor: Off

Picture Mode: Custom
Backlight: Min
Picture: 96
Brightness: 51
Color: 53
Hue: R1
Color Temperature: Warm 2
Sharpness: 2
Noise Reduction: Off
MPEG Reduction: Off (consider turning on for streaming content or SD content)
Motionflow: Off
CineMotion: Auto 2
Ambient Sensor: Off

Advanced Settings
Adv. Contrast Enhancer: Low (ACE is the only way to achieve the darkest blacks period)
Black Corrector: Off (will crush blacks and ruin shadow detail if on)
Gamma: 0 (-1 if ACE is turned off, otherwise a 2.2 gamma is achieved across grayscale with ACE on Low)
Clear White: Off (makes whites "whiter" by introducing blue tint)
Live Color: Off (artificially increases contrast)

White Balance
R-Gain: 0
G-Gain: 0
B-Gain: 0
R-Bias: 0
G-Bias: 0
B-Bias: -2
Attached Images
File Type: bmp Custom RGB Levels.bmp (703.2 KB, 51 views)
File Type: bmp Custom Color temperature.bmp (703.2 KB, 32 views)
File Type: bmp Game-Original RGB Levels.bmp (703.2 KB, 34 views)
File Type: bmp Game-Original Color temperature.bmp (703.2 KB, 33 views)

Sony KDL-55W800C | Marantz SR5010 | HSU HB-1 MK2 | HSU VTF-1 MK2
KDL-55W800C Calibration (Updated 8/2016)

Last edited by wanderjahr; 09-13-2015 at 11:50 AM.
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post #6214 of 6235 Old 09-15-2015, 03:15 PM
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I recently was able to use a Leo Bodnar input lag tester to optimize settings for my TV. I'm going to list some obvious and not so obvious ways to reduce lag.
  • Use game mode (this is obvious). If you are a fanatic about TV picture calibration and are frustrated by the lack of fine-tuning white balance, check to see if there is a factory menu you can access for more granular adjustments. Game mode is the single most important thing you can do as far as reducing input lag.
  • Disable HDMI-CEC. In my tests, this added ~10ms of lag on my set. I disabled it on my TV and on my PS4. Though, disabling it on my PS4 didn't change my lag, but it did change audio cut out (not really relevant to this thread though).
  • Disable any power saving settings or ambient screen dimming. Both of these add additional lag (~10ms each).
  • If possible, test each HDMI input. I have 4 HDMI inputs and two of them consistently have less input lag (6ms less) than the other two.
  • Using TV speakers add input lag. If possible, use a separate audio system. Using TV speakers added ~8ms of lag on my set.
  • Some TV's will automatically reduce all post-processing if you label an input PC. The lag was the same as game mode. That being said, there were subtle white balance differences and shadow detail.
All that being said, I was personally able to shave off ~20ms of lag. I tested using the average of top, middle, and bottom readings which is the current meta. I also let the TV warm up for a few minutes before measuring each change as I observed this was the best way to observe lowest measurements and most accurately resembled real-world use.
Obviously, not all of these will translate from one set to another, but if anything else, it suggests that seemingly benign settings can introduce additional lag.
Hope this helps!!!

BTW, the lag I ended up recording after all the tweaking was 37.3ms averaged between top, middle, and bottom areas of the screen.

Sony KDL-55W800C | Marantz SR5010 | HSU HB-1 MK2 | HSU VTF-1 MK2
KDL-55W800C Calibration (Updated 8/2016)

Last edited by wanderjahr; 10-04-2015 at 06:03 AM.
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post #6215 of 6235 Old 09-29-2015, 04:35 PM
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How do you save Factory Mode White Balance Values? It says [EXIT]Exit at the bottom of the menu but I can't find that button on my remote. Also, how do you turn on factory mode?
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post #6216 of 6235 Old 09-30-2015, 06:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elux View Post
How do you save Factory Mode White Balance Values? It says [EXIT]Exit at the bottom of the menu but I can't find that button on my remote. Also, how do you turn on factory mode?
Click the Color Temp option and then you can mess with the numbers there. Anictdotal evidence suggests all the default values are the same on same modlels. Once numbers are entered, click on the Data Backup row and you should be set and just press MENU to back out of everything. This is on the 55EX500 btw. I don't see why it'd be different for panels of different sizes, but I can't say otherwise.

Sony KDL-55W800C | Marantz SR5010 | HSU HB-1 MK2 | HSU VTF-1 MK2
KDL-55W800C Calibration (Updated 8/2016)
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post #6217 of 6235 Old 10-01-2015, 04:48 AM
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Originally Posted by wanderjahr View Post
Anecdotal evidence suggests all the default values are the same on same models. This is on the 55EX500 btw. I don't see why it'd be different for panels of different sizes, but I can't say otherwise.
The default values on my 40" are:

R Gain - 461
G Gain - 366
B Gain - 177
R Offset - 508
G Offset - 512
B Offset - 522

Edit: The values you gave still won't save, they revert back to their default settings every time.

Last edited by Elux; 10-01-2015 at 05:00 AM.
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post #6218 of 6235 Old 10-02-2015, 04:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elux View Post
The default values on my 40" are:

R Gain - 461
G Gain - 366
B Gain - 177
R Offset - 508
G Offset - 512
B Offset - 522

Edit: The values you gave still won't save, they revert back to their default settings every time.
Sorry! Maybe our sets are different. In any case, at least you've found the settings which allow you to really fine tune the white balance.

Sony KDL-55W800C | Marantz SR5010 | HSU HB-1 MK2 | HSU VTF-1 MK2
KDL-55W800C Calibration (Updated 8/2016)
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post #6219 of 6235 Old 10-02-2015, 07:01 AM
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Originally Posted by wanderjahr View Post
Sorry! Maybe our sets are different. In any case, at least you've found the settings which allow you to really fine tune the white balance.
Do you know why I can't save your color temperature settings? I turned data backup on and it didn't save.
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post #6220 of 6235 Old 10-04-2015, 05:59 AM
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Do you know why I can't save your color temperature settings? I turned data backup on and it didn't save.
I can post some pictures of a step by step process of what I do here shortly that might help.

Sony KDL-55W800C | Marantz SR5010 | HSU HB-1 MK2 | HSU VTF-1 MK2
KDL-55W800C Calibration (Updated 8/2016)
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post #6221 of 6235 Old 10-04-2015, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by wanderjahr View Post
I can post some pictures of a step by step process of what I do here shortly that might help.
That would be great and appreciated.
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post #6222 of 6235 Old 12-05-2015, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by wanderjahr View Post
  • If possible, test each HDMI input. I have 4 HDMI inputs and two of them consistently have less input lag (6ms less) than the other two.
Would you please share which HDMI inputs gave you the lowest lag? My KDL-55EX500 is my primary PS3/PS4 gaming screen and I'm always looking for that last ounce of improvement! I also plan on doing the white balance this weekend. Looking forward to the results! Thanks!
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post #6223 of 6235 Old 12-06-2015, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Elux View Post
Do you know why I can't save your color temperature settings? I turned data backup on and it didn't save.
First thing I did was enter the White Balance Menu as follows: (TV on) (LEFT)>(RIGHT)>(MUTING)>(CENTER)>(MUTING)>(MENU)



Then I went to the Color Temp Menu



Then when I dialed in the values I was comfortable with, I hit Data Backup. To do that, hit right on the remote and the screen should flash white. That should be it. Just hit menu to exit out.



The Color Temp I adjusted was the Warm2 setting and I had my scene-select on Game-Original since there is no granular adjustment for white balance there. I then went to my Custom mode and granularly adjusted an offset from my Game-Original mode.

Sony KDL-55W800C | Marantz SR5010 | HSU HB-1 MK2 | HSU VTF-1 MK2
KDL-55W800C Calibration (Updated 8/2016)
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post #6224 of 6235 Old 12-06-2015, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by 20vBeat View Post
Would you please share which HDMI inputs gave you the lowest lag? My KDL-55EX500 is my primary PS3/PS4 gaming screen and I'm always looking for that last ounce of improvement! I also plan on doing the white balance this weekend. Looking forward to the results! Thanks!
For my set, it was the 2 hdmi inputs on the side of the TV, #2 and #3. In another thread, somebody speculated that there was a (ever so slight) difference in measurements simply because of the location of the inputs on the motherboard. Either way, the timings were consistent.

Sony KDL-55W800C | Marantz SR5010 | HSU HB-1 MK2 | HSU VTF-1 MK2
KDL-55W800C Calibration (Updated 8/2016)
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post #6225 of 6235 Old 12-06-2015, 02:27 PM
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Can you post some pictures of a game being played? I am quite content with serialmike's settings and don't want to risk ruining the TV if it isn't necessary.
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post #6226 of 6235 Old 12-06-2015, 02:45 PM
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Can you post some pictures of a game being played? I am quite content with serialmike's settings and don't want to risk ruining the TV if it isn't necessary.
I don't think I have a camera that would do any justice to image quality. Not sure what you mean by ruining the tv though. Going through the settings won't ruin the tv. IIRC, my set (55") is different from serialmike's and might even be different from yours. I was mainly posting the step by step process so others could tweak their own values, not necessarily copy mine.

All that being said, if you really want some images, lemme know and I'll use my gf's camera and find some good scenes that do white balance justice both gaming and bluray.

Sony KDL-55W800C | Marantz SR5010 | HSU HB-1 MK2 | HSU VTF-1 MK2
KDL-55W800C Calibration (Updated 8/2016)
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post #6227 of 6235 Old 12-06-2015, 02:48 PM
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Just gaming pics would be fine. If you have a PS4 you can take a screenshot directly from the console by pressing the share button, put it on a flash drive, and transfer it to a PC, or you can use your camera like you said.

I am hesitant because of this:
http://www.cnet.com/news/ask-the-edi...vs-you-review/
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post #6228 of 6235 Old 12-06-2015, 03:53 PM
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Just gaming pics would be fine. If you have a PS4 you can take a screenshot directly from the console by pressing the share button, put it on a flash drive, and transfer it to a PC, or you can use your camera like you said.

I am hesitant because of this:
http://www.cnet.com/news/ask-the-edi...vs-you-review/
I'll take some pictures then. The screenshot function won't work because it doesn't take the TV's gamma or white balance into account.

If it makes you feel any better, you're actually not entering the service menu. That's a separate menu altogether. To access the service menu, you'd have to do:

(TV off): (DISPLAY)>(5)>(VOL+)>(POWER)

I've gone into the service menu but I didn't see anything worth tinkering with. But, I totally understand if you are hesitant.

I'll see about some pictures soon that captures best the white balance and color.

Sony KDL-55W800C | Marantz SR5010 | HSU HB-1 MK2 | HSU VTF-1 MK2
KDL-55W800C Calibration (Updated 8/2016)
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post #6229 of 6235 Old 12-07-2015, 05:49 AM
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I tried your Game Mode settings while playing Fallout 4 and when comparing them with serialmike's, yours seem more colorful and redish, whereas his turned out to be a more clear picture and blueish. Your settings have too much red for my liking - it is difficult on the eyes.

Here are his settings that I have been using for the longest while:

Originally Posted by serialmike 

I made some changes to white balance and to sharpness and noise handling. I shall explain.

I changed my view on the white balance. In order to flatten out blue at the low end you would cause black to be very blueish. Also to flatten the line completely you would almost always end up with a pure white that had some coloration of blue or green to it. I decided that if white was pure white that my mind would much easier deal with the lower end being off a little bit and this would much less "stress" the image. Also something to note is that my scale I was using on color temp was much smaller than that you see in pro reviews. This lead to their lines of calibration looking much straighter and more even than mine. In actuality my calibrations on this set have been more accurate than many others I have seen for other sets. Anyway to me especially with an LCD nothing like having pure white look exactly as it should. this puts the rest out of sight out of mind.

Next up is the sharpness. When you use interpolation you get to negative effects. The first is noise. You might think its processing when you see fast images break up on an lcd but its not. This is the result of the interpolation process. Another effect of this is a softened image when compared to plasma or an unprocessed image. To counter this effect the default settings are usually sharpening turned up and noise reduction set to on. A better way to deal with these symptoms is to use MPG noise reduction rather than digital noise reduction. The noise created by interpolation more resembles mpg noise. Due to the added softness created by interpolation and the small added softness of the mpg noise reduction a little sharpness is added.

Eye-One LT Meter with HCFR. AVSPatterns, THX patterns
Picture Mode- Custom
Backlight-Min
Picture-92
Brightness- 53
Color- 50
Hue- G7
Color Temp- Neutral
Sharpness- 4
Noise Reduction- Off
MPG Noise Red- Med
MotionFlow- Standard
Cinemotion- Off
Ambient Sensor- Off

Advanced Settings
Adv Contrast Enhancer-off
Black Corrector- off
Gamma- 0
Clear White- Off
Live Color- Off


White Balance-
RGain -0
GGain -4
BGain -18
RBias 1
GBias 0
BBias 1

Picture size-Full Pixel
Power Save-Off

Last edited by Elux; 12-07-2015 at 06:40 AM.
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post #6230 of 6235 Old 12-07-2015, 04:00 PM
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The picture isn't great, and I'm not even sure if it does a good job of demonstrating the color balance. It does a better job at demonstrating gamma I think. Very beginning of The Last of Us.


Sony KDL-55W800C | Marantz SR5010 | HSU HB-1 MK2 | HSU VTF-1 MK2
KDL-55W800C Calibration (Updated 8/2016)
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post #6231 of 6235 Old 12-07-2015, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elux View Post
I tried your Game Mode settings while playing Fallout 4 and when comparing them with serialmike's, yours seem more colorful and redish, whereas his turned out to be a more clear picture and blueish. Your settings have too much red for my liking - it is difficult on the eyes.
serialmike is great. I loved seeing him around on this thread. Maybe he got a new set. Honestly, if it wasn't for this thread and his tenacity for perfection, I never would have bothered poking around the settings. I don't think my gear is as good as his, or others in this thread, and I certainly don't know anywhere near where some people do about tweaking color balance. I like improving settings though, that's for sure.

About the redness, yeah, whites always look surprisingly dingy on a calibrated set. It's not clorox white. It took me a while to get used to it, but I don't even notice anymore.

Sony KDL-55W800C | Marantz SR5010 | HSU HB-1 MK2 | HSU VTF-1 MK2
KDL-55W800C Calibration (Updated 8/2016)
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post #6232 of 6235 Old 12-07-2015, 09:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wanderjahr View Post
For my set, it was the 2 hdmi inputs on the side of the TV, #2 and #3. In another thread, somebody speculated that there was a (ever so slight) difference in measurements simply because of the location of the inputs on the motherboard. Either way, the timings were consistent.
Thanks much for the response! I'm still in the process of fine tuning my white balance, but when I finish, I'll post my before and after numbers along with some diagrams for those who are still interested in these "oldie but goody" sets. Cheers!
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post #6233 of 6235 Old 12-08-2015, 05:47 AM
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Originally Posted by 20vBeat View Post
"oldie but goody" sets
OF COURSE I am biased, but I do have a soft spot for this set. My first decent TV and it's seen lots of content. I've mentally had a replacement picked out a couple times now, but can't bring myself to pull the trigger. Considering what is out there right now, I could comfortably replace this with an OLED set, but 4k just isn't enough for me to justify a replacement.

I plugged my PC into the set yesterday to do some gaming and I still get moments where I'm impressed with the iq. Strictly speaking numbers and tech, it's outclassed by a lot of what's out there (especially now), but it does the essentials well enough.

Off-topic, but I've noticed with updating my calibration in the last couple years that the black level is creeping up. Nothing new and completely to be expected, but I've been playing with neutral lighting and back-lit arrangements. Anybody else try this? It certainly helps the perceived contrast.

Sony KDL-55W800C | Marantz SR5010 | HSU HB-1 MK2 | HSU VTF-1 MK2
KDL-55W800C Calibration (Updated 8/2016)
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post #6234 of 6235 Old 12-08-2015, 10:17 PM
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I've used Disney WOW pretty extensively, for myour 46" ex500. I'm still messing with what Backlight and sharpness setting i prefer. But correct brightness is definitely either set to 53 or 54.
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post #6235 of 6235 Old 03-17-2016, 07:27 AM
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I broke guys, I broke. I sold my 55EX500 and will be replacing it with another Sony. I just wanted to snag Sony's last 55" 1080p TV before they were/are phased out. So far, 2016 doesn't have any 1080p models and I don't have any 4k content and probably won't for years. So, I bid you adieu.
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