Official KDL..EX500/501 Thread - Page 37 - AVS Forum
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post #1081 of 6195 Old 05-16-2010, 07:29 PM
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Has anyone had a jumpy screen? I was watching tv (Cable) and the screen started jumping, i tried with both DVR'd shows and regular t.v. and it seems like it was doing it with both. But when i tried with a blu-Ray its fine. Since the blu-ray isn't doing it, I'm thinking it might just be the cable t..v doing it, but i just need some assurance that no one has had any experience like mine.

Thanks for any help.

Oh i have the EX500 in a 60inch, the TV is about 3 days old.
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post #1082 of 6195 Old 05-17-2010, 03:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by illoosionz View Post

Has anyone had a jumpy screen? I was watching tv (Cable) and the screen started jumping, i tried with both DVR'd shows and regular t.v. and it seems like it was doing it with both. But when i tried with a blu-Ray its fine. Since the blu-ray isn't doing it, I'm thinking it might just be the cable t..v doing it, but i just need some assurance that no one has had any experience like mine.

Thanks for any help.

Oh i have the EX500 in a 60inch, the TV is about 3 days old.

I do not have a jumping picture issue with fiostv games systems or bluray (ps3) Sounds like there could be some kind of sync thing going on with the cable box
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post #1083 of 6195 Old 05-17-2010, 04:58 AM
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HI,

im getting my 55ex500 soon on Friday and i cant wait @#!. i was hoping as i dont have access to proper calibration methods that someone might be able to calibrate a nice VIVID mode for me. as such i would rather someone else with good knowledge of calibration to be able to do so, as i would not know the how to get a really nice VIVID picture.

please? thanks
tanny =)))

take me to WARP SPEED!
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post #1084 of 6195 Old 05-17-2010, 05:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanny View Post

HI,

im getting my 55ex500 soon on Friday and i cant wait @#!. i was hoping as i dont have access to proper calibration methods that someone might be able to calibrate a nice VIVID mode for me. as such i would rather someone else with good knowledge of calibration to be able to do so, as i would not know the how to get a really nice VIVID picture.

please? thanks
tanny =)))

Vivid mode and calibration a true juxtaposition.
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post #1085 of 6195 Old 05-17-2010, 05:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanny View Post

HI,

im getting my 55ex500 soon on Friday and i cant wait @#!. i was hoping as i dont have access to proper calibration methods that someone might be able to calibrate a nice VIVID mode for me. as such i would rather someone else with good knowledge of calibration to be able to do so, as i would not know the how to get a really nice VIVID picture.

please? thanks
tanny =)))

Mike is right.

Calibration is setting the display to industry standards. Using Vivid mode makes that impossible. Everything else is adjusting to taste, and noone knows your taste better than yourself.
-Best,
John

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post #1086 of 6195 Old 05-17-2010, 05:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serialmike View Post

Vivid mode and calibration a true juxtaposition.

are you mocking me? cmon im new here in the lcd tv land, im getting there it'll just take time

take me to WARP SPEED!
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post #1087 of 6195 Old 05-17-2010, 05:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsskid View Post

Everything else is adjusting to taste, and noone knows your taste better than yourself.
-Best,
John

mmm i was just hoping someone would be able to do it properly like to improve or change some of the manufacturer settings

take me to WARP SPEED!
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post #1088 of 6195 Old 05-17-2010, 05:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanny View Post

mmm i was just hoping someone would be able to do it properly like to improve or change some of the manufacturer settings

Tanny welcome to the forum.

There are three main reasons why most don't use vivid mode:
  • You cannot reproduce the color primaries (red, green & blue) of secondaries (yellow, magenta and cyan) accurately.
  • You cannot achieve an accurate linear grayscale (color of white and all grays down to black) without the intrusion of either red, green or blue.
  • You cannot correctly set gamma (the rate in which the picture comes out of black, and reponsible for shadow detail)

If the above three cannot be achieved, the picture will be cartoonish, and most likely induce eyestrain to varying degrees. These are not desireable traits to most on this forum, so very few will even bother with Vivid.

Many here have painstakingly taken the the time to properly calibrate their display to industry standard to attain the best possible "accurate" picture that this model can produce. To try and achieve this utilizing Vivid mode is an exercise in futility.

No knock against you for asking, but I just wanted to give you an explanation for some of the comments originating from your request.

-Best,
John

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post #1089 of 6195 Old 05-17-2010, 05:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsskid View Post

Tanny welcome to the forum.

There are three main reasons why most don't use vivid mode:
  • You cannot reproduce the color primaries (red, green & blue) of secondaries (yellow, magenta and cyan) accurately.
  • You cannot achieve an accurate linear grayscale (color of white and all grays down to black) without the intrusion of either red, green or blue.
  • You cannot correctly set gamma (the rate in which the picture comes out of black, and reponsible for shadow detail)

If the above three cannot be achieved, the picture will be cartoonish, and most likely induce eyestrain to varying degrees. These are not desireable traits to most on this forum, so very few will even bother with Vivid.

Many here have painstakingly taken the the time to properly calibrate their display to industry standard to attain the best possible "accurate" picture that this model can produce. To try and achieve this utilizing Vivid mode is an exercise in futility.

No knock against you for asking, but I just wanted to give you an explanation for some of the comments originating from your request.

-Best,
John


^this

And welcome to the forum.
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post #1090 of 6195 Old 05-17-2010, 05:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsskid View Post

Tanny welcome to the forum.

There are three main reasons why most don't use vivid mode:
  • You cannot reproduce the color primaries (red, green & blue) of secondaries (yellow, magenta and cyan) accurately.
  • You cannot achieve an accurate linear grayscale (color of white and all grays down to black) without the intrusion of either red, green or blue.
  • You cannot correctly set gamma (the rate in which the picture comes out of black, and reponsible for shadow detail)

If the above three cannot be achieved, the picture will be cartoonish, and most likely induce eyestrain to varying degrees. These are not desireable traits to most on this forum, so very few will even bother with Vivid.

Many here have painstakingly taken the the time to properly calibrate their display to industry standard to attain the best possible "accurate" picture that this model can produce. To try and achieve this utilizing Vivid mode is an exercise in futility.

No knock against you for asking, but I just wanted to give you an explanation for some of the comments originating from your request.

-Best,
John


alrite sweet. thanks john for explaining this to me. i havent received my tv yet as it will be delivered on friday. so ive yet to see how good this will look when i try other peoples settings.

thanks, tanny

take me to WARP SPEED!
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post #1091 of 6195 Old 05-17-2010, 05:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanny View Post

alrite sweet. thanks john for explaining this to me. i havent received my tv yet as it will be delivered on friday. so ive yet to see how good this will look when i try other peoples settings.

thanks, tanny

You're welcome.

When you hook it up, I would recommend that you try some of the settings posted on this thread and watch it for a while.

Sometimes an accurate picture takes time to get used to if you've been watching an improperly set display for a long time, but once you've seen a properly calibrated display, you'll know what you've been missing, and will notice all the ones that aren't.

If you have a brightly lit room, and the settings that you try still seem dark after a few days, you can try raising the backlight level a tick or two.

Enjoy your new display.

-Best,
John

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post #1092 of 6195 Old 05-17-2010, 05:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsskid View Post

You're welcome.

When you hook it up, I would recommend that you try some of the settings posted on this thread and watch it for a while.

Sometimes an accurate picture takes time to get used to if you've been watching an improperly set display for a long time, but once you've seen a properly calibrated display, you'll know what you've been missing, and will notice all the ones that aren't.

If you have a brightly lit room, and the settings that you try still seem dark after a few days, you can try raising the backlight level a tick or two.

Enjoy your new display.

-Best,
John

DS,

you were saying you were going to work with one of the ex500 sets a few posts back. Do you own one? Or do you work in a place that has many sets and youll get around to one? Or do you have a friend or customer that you need to calibrate?

Or is other?

Oh yeah, and if there is one which one is it?
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post #1093 of 6195 Old 05-17-2010, 05:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serialmike View Post

DS,

you were saying you were going to work with one of the ex500 sets a few posts back. Do you own one? Or do you work in a place that has many sets and youll get around to one? Or do you have a friend or customer that you need to calibrate?

Or is other?

Oh yeah, and if there is one which one is it?

I'm scheduled to do a EX700 in 3 weeks, but I have been experimenting with the ACE and black corrector on my Z5100. The recent Sonys models seem to react similarly. But I'd be willing to do a EX500 at a discount (in my local area) just so I can get some readings on this model. (Tanny, you're definitely too far)

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post #1094 of 6195 Old 05-17-2010, 05:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsskid View Post

I'm scheduled to do a ex700 in 3 weeks, but I have been experimenting with the ACE and black corrector on my Z5100.

Ah got ya. Not sure how similar either of those sets will be. As I have noted the 52v5100 ace definitely does not work as well or even in a similar way to the ex500. Not sure about other 09 models.

As far as the ex700, They have bravia three. I used to think that the bravia 2,3 whatever had more to do with SD than anything else. Now I know better. The Bravia engines have alot to do with ACE, Black Level Corrector, Gamma "the special features" etc.

Anyway more info is always a good thing. Just not sure they are apples to apples.

I still love my posted settings for this ex500. I watched Avatar last eve. I was utterly blown away. I was expecting a cartoon look. Actually even if I had my plasma I was expecting that. I was shocked to see that it had the same very real look to everything. Maybe even more so than in the theater. I cant wait till rerelease in theater to get wife to experience it in its 3d glory.

However I decided to loiok at gamma +1 vs 0 this moring after looking at a posted review of a ex400 by avforum.
Dam I need that meter to come yesterday
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post #1095 of 6195 Old 05-17-2010, 06:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serialmike View Post

Ah got ya. Not sure how similar either of those sets will be. As I have noted the 52v5100 ace definitely does not work as well or even in a similar way to the ex500. Not sure about other 09 models.

As far as the ex700, They have bravia three. I used to think that the bravia 2,3 whatever had more to do with SD than anything else. Now I know better. The Bravia engines have alot to do with ACE, Black Level Corrector, Gamma "the special features" etc.

Anyway more info is always a good thing. Just not sure they are apples to apples.

I was referring to the EX400 that I did. The ACE, black corrector, and gamma react similarly to the Z5100 and form what I've heard, the EX500.
The EX700 is an LED, so that will react differently. I was hoping to do a formal calibration on the EX500, but the customer changed his mind and picked up an EX700. This year's Bravia 2 seem to have some of last year's Bravia 3 traits.

Edit: Mike I know that you also have a V5100, and I noticed that when I owned the V5100 that the grayscale stopped being linear around 40 IRE, and engaging ACE helped make it linear down to 20 IRE.

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post #1096 of 6195 Old 05-17-2010, 06:09 AM
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Originally Posted by dsskid View Post

(Tanny, you're definitely too far)

haha yeah. if only we could go warp speed in a car then it would be like 2 minutes from australia to the NYC BABY!! luckily in my garage im developing a spaceship that will revolutionize transportation. and hikara sulu can drive it haha

take me to WARP SPEED!
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post #1097 of 6195 Old 05-17-2010, 06:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsskid View Post

I was referring to the EX400 that I did. The ACE, black corrector, and gamma react similarly to the Z5100 and form what I've heard, the EX500.
The EX700 is an LED, so that will react differently. I was hoping to do a formal calibration on the EX500, but the customer changed his mind and picked up an EX700.

Ah, I see now. I would bet that the 400 and 500's are very similar. If I had to put money on any of it
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post #1098 of 6195 Old 05-17-2010, 06:16 AM
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I just picked up a 40EX500 from Best Buy last night.

Does anyone know if the firmware update posted on Sony Australia, Europe, and Asia, can be used on this? They all look the same aside from the name of the file...
http://www.sony-asia.com/support/download/393191

That's an example..
Bought mine here in the US, so wasn't sure if this would work.. earlier versions posted on Sony Europe handle picture stability.
Just curious if anyone has tried this
thanks
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post #1099 of 6195 Old 05-17-2010, 06:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brianhahne View Post

I just picked up a 40EX500 from Best Buy last night.

Does anyone know if the firmware update posted on Sony Australia, Europe, and Asia, can be used on this? They all look the same aside from the name of the file...
http://www.sony-asia.com/support/download/393191

That's an example..
Bought mine here in the US, so wasn't sure if this would work.. earlier versions posted on Sony Europe handle picture stability.
Just curious if anyone has tried this
thanks

No, Do not use it. The ex500 in europe has the bravia 3 engine which enables internet stuffs. That update enabled a new service on the internet.

At this point I can find no wrong that needs firmware updating with this set.
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post #1100 of 6195 Old 05-17-2010, 06:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beeper View Post

And contrary to your opinion, a 60Hz display and a 120Hz display will look exactly the same when the interpolation feature is turned off.
The exception is when viewing a 24fps source.

When MotionFlow is off on a 120Hz display, you will see a new original frame 60 times a second, just like a 60Hz display.
The added 120Hz frames are duplicate 60Hz originals and are sample and hold,
so the frame doesn't change on the display from one original frame until the next original 60Hz frame.

Sorry for the slow response... hadn't been back to the thread in a while.

The 120hz framerate is intended to help with motion lag as well as to even out judder caused by the 3:2 telecine process.

You are correct, they do display the same frame multiple times, and it is the identical frame as you point out... but, the intent is to hit the pixels multiple times with the same content to force it to snap to the actual frame content and reduce pixel lag.

How much this helps is open to debate.
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post #1101 of 6195 Old 05-17-2010, 08:17 AM
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how does the sony z5100 compare to the ex500?
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post #1102 of 6195 Old 05-17-2010, 10:30 AM
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Had the 46ex500 about a month and today when i turned it it had no sound via the hdmi from my TiVo. No sound through the TV speakers or the stereo I have hooked up. The sony startup screen made a sound though. I turned the channel a few times and turned the volume up and down, hit mute/unhit mute, nothing. So I turned it off and back on again and it was fine. Should I be concerned?
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post #1103 of 6195 Old 05-17-2010, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theheidis View Post

Had the 46ex500 about a month and today when i turned it it had no sound via the hdmi from my TiVo. No sound through the TV speakers or the stereo I have hooked up. The sony startup screen made a sound though. I turned the channel a few times and turned the volume up and down, hit mute/unhit mute, nothing. So I turned it off and back on again and it was fine. Should I be concerned?

Sounds like a sync issue. I find it fairly common with all hdmi crap these days. I wouldnt worry till it becomes common.
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post #1104 of 6195 Old 05-17-2010, 12:09 PM
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There needs to be a US review of this panel soon. Really curious on a lot of things.

Couple thoughts after some more time with the panel and comparing things with my 2009 V model:

I think the gamma on the 2010 sets are much different than that of the 2009 sets. CNET had gamma starting out at 2.97 or so on the ex700 they reviewed. Minimum luminance is different since the V panels were AUO's, which were excellent for the most part, while the S-PVA panels were better at blacks.

I've found that honestly, ACE on the 2010 models does not work the same as the 2009 models. Where the 2009 ACE setting on low enhanced the picture, it doesn't work the same way on the ex500. ACE only brightens and washes out the picture at higher levels.

Black corrector is alright set at low, but again, it doesn't work the same as gamma, yet it raises the gamma in a way, although it's also upping the ANSI contrast, since bright areas are still remaining just as bright. Still unsure about it past low...

To each his own, I guess.

Of course, we won't know for sure until someone calibrates one and does a full review. However, this is the best set I've ever had from Sony. I like it in a way more than my old xbr960.

"If you weren't such an ignorant troll, you'd be adorable" -rogo
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post #1105 of 6195 Old 05-17-2010, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsskid View Post

I'm scheduled to do a EX700 in 3 weeks

dsskid, any chance you'll be posting over in the EX700 thread after that? I have a 52EX700 so I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on the EX700 series, and any hints/suggestions/settings you may have after calibrating one.
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post #1106 of 6195 Old 05-17-2010, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigAl View Post

You are correct, they do display the same frame multiple times, and it is the identical frame as you point out... but,
the intent is to hit the pixels multiple times with the same content to force it to snap to the actual frame content and reduce pixel lag.

How much this helps is open to debate.

Nice theory.

A 120Hz display only "hits the pixels" one extra time for each original frame, not "multiple times".

An LCD display is sample and hold, and if everything else is equal,
a 60Hz display and a 120Hz display (without any motion compensation/interpolation active)
will each hold an original frame (pixel twist) for the same time duration.
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post #1107 of 6195 Old 05-17-2010, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beeper View Post

Nice theory.

A 120Hz display only "hits the pixels" one extra time for each original frame, not "multiple times".

An LCD display is sample and hold, and if everything else is equal,
a 60Hz display and a 120Hz display (without any motion compensation/interpolation active)
will each hold an original frame (pixel twist) for the same time duration.

fwiw sample and hold is not an evil thing. It eliminates flicker. Lcd is flicker free unlike plasma due to this . Also reducing eyestrains and headaches.

120hz interpolation is to compensate for sample and hold which is mostly responsible for lag. There is nothing wrong with ointerpolation per say. the problem is the way it is handled. When done poorly you get samsungs way over the top soap opera effect. Sony was clse last year but this year they pretty much nailed it.

There is no motion issue at all on the ex500. No judder, No lag, No soap opera effect.
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post #1108 of 6195 Old 05-17-2010, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmarceau View Post

There needs to be a US review of this panel soon. Really curious on a lot of things.

Couple thoughts after some more time with the panel and comparing things with my 2009 V model:

I think the gamma on the 2010 sets are much different than that of the 2009 sets. CNET had gamma starting out at 2.97 or so on the ex700 they reviewed. Minimum luminance is different since the V panels were AUO's, which were excellent for the most part, while the S-PVA panels were better at blacks.

I've found that honestly, ACE on the 2010 models does not work the same as the 2009 models. Where the 2009 ACE setting on low enhanced the picture, it doesn't work the same way on the ex500. ACE only brightens and washes out the picture at higher levels.

Black corrector is alright set at low, but again, it doesn't work the same as gamma, yet it raises the gamma in a way, although it's also upping the ANSI contrast, since bright areas are still remaining just as bright. Still unsure about it past low...

To each his own, I guess.

Of course, we won't know for sure until someone calibrates one and does a full review. However, this is the best set I've ever had from Sony. I like it in a way more than my old xbr960.

I went thru the thx and dve patterns today (meterless for now) The settings I am running are excellent as far as the patterns show. with ace and black level to low.

More will be revealed when I get a meter on them as far as gamma and white balance.

As far as CNET goes I do not liek his recent sony reviews as it is obviois he isnt even bothering to check the features such as ace to see if they do work.

His settings of the ex700 review show shoddy review work at best knowing what I know of this years sets. I now call in question most of his review skills.

http://forums.cnet.com/5208-19410_10...;lst;2#3269112

56 brightness and Im supposed to believe his review of bad black level. If I put my xbr6, my v5100 or my ex500 at 56 all my sets wwould look like I was looking at them thru a white balloon. No freakin way he knows what hes doing anymore.
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post #1109 of 6195 Old 05-17-2010, 02:57 PM
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I had a question about cinemotion..should I be using it when I'm streaming netflix movies from my ps3? and should I be using auto 1 or 2?
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post #1110 of 6195 Old 05-17-2010, 03:00 PM
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I agree with the brightness setting being too high, as well. I've seen this done with the guys over at TweakTV, too- Kevin Miller's site, so...

I think there are settings for a 46ex700 over there.

"If you weren't such an ignorant troll, you'd be adorable" -rogo
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Reply LCD Flat Panel Displays

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Sony Bravia 60 Inch Lcd Hdtv Kdl 60ex500 , Sony Bravia V Series Kdl 52v5100 52 Inch 1080p 120hz Lcd Hdtv Black
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