Official KDL..EX500/501 Thread - Page 40 - AVS Forum
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post #1171 of 6195 Old 05-20-2010, 08:38 PM
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My 2004 KDF55WF655 finally developed the blue blob and starfield, so I looked at the class action lawsuit, contacted Sony, and decided to get the KDL55EX501 for a good price.

I've had it for a few days now, and while I was first kind of impressed with it during the first day, in daylight, I started to wonder if I'd made a bad choice, since there are some things that are annoying. Not sure I fully understand the "flashlighting" thing, but perhaps you guys can tell me if this is what it is...

During the opening credits of Lethal Weapon (Director's Cut), every time a credit appears, the entire background of the city brightens with gray gradually, almost like a dimmer switch is slowing increasing the brightness. At the same time, when the first few credits appear on the black screen, the screen becomes freeze-framed-like and everything looks muddy. This was annoying. At 10:09 in the film, when Riggs is looking at the picture of his wife, the left side of this neck flashes/pulsates with brightness. Anyone care to pop in that disc and see if they have the same problem and let me know please?

My set came with a 4" scratch on the front-left face of the bezel. Normally, I would bring it back to the store, but since this was bought through Sony, I'm going to give it a pass instead of waiting weeks for a new replacement, and because I'd have to remove all the wiring and re-pack it, etc. It only shows if you look really closely at it, anyway.

I haven't used any of you guys' tweaks yet, because I like messing around with the settings myself. That's half the fun. But, I might give in and try it to see if they make a huge difference. I noticed the picture looks like total crap if you're only standing about three feet away. With my other set, I could get that close and things would still look great. Still uncertain if I made the right choice... Mixed feelings. It looks better, is sleeker and lighter in weight than my old set, but the picture quality (again without pro tweaking) looks kind of iffy.

I don't really like the texture of this screen. It looks poorly finished and rough compared to my old set. Plus, there's a lot more glare with this new one. The remote control is great.

Thanks.
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post #1172 of 6195 Old 05-20-2010, 09:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beeper View Post

From that reply, I'm still not sure that you understand.

This is as simple as I can explain the difference between screen area and image size.

Image size is comparable to the height and width of the screen and calculates to a 5.88% difference for a 52" vs. 55" 16:9 screen (for the height).
If the 52" display showed a circle measuring exactly 10 inches in height, on the 55" the circle would measure 10.588", or 5.88% larger.

Screen area is the area of the screen in square inches and will be a higher percentage than image size because the measurements are squared.

You guys are arguing about the same thing. Yes, the diameter of the circle is 5.88% wider. Which makes the circle 12% larger. All images on the screen are 12% larger -- they are 5.88% taller and 5.88% wider. You are both right.
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post #1173 of 6195 Old 05-21-2010, 12:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cryogenix View Post

My 2004 KDF55WF655 finally developed the blue blob and starfield, so I looked at the class action lawsuit, contacted Sony, and decided to get the KDL55EX501 for a good price.

I've had it for a few days now, and while I was first kind of impressed with it during the first day, in daylight, I started to wonder if I'd made a bad choice, since there are some things that are annoying. Not sure I fully understand the "flashlighting" thing, but perhaps you guys can tell me if this is what it is...

During the opening credits of Lethal Weapon (Director's Cut), every time a credit appears, the entire background of the city brightens with gray gradually, almost like a dimmer switch is slowing increasing the brightness. At the same time, when the first few credits appear on the black screen, the screen becomes freeze-framed-like and everything looks muddy. This was annoying. At 10:09 in the film, when Riggs is looking at the picture of his wife, the left side of this neck flashes/pulsates with brightness. Anyone care to pop in that disc and see if they have the same problem and let me know please?

My set came with a 4" scratch on the front-left face of the bezel. Normally, I would bring it back to the store, but since this was bought through Sony, I'm going to give it a pass instead of waiting weeks for a new replacement, and because I'd have to remove all the wiring and re-pack it, etc. It only shows if you look really closely at it, anyway.

I haven't used any of you guys' tweaks yet, because I like messing around with the settings myself. That's half the fun. But, I might give in and try it to see if they make a huge difference. I noticed the picture looks like total crap if you're only standing about three feet away. With my other set, I could get that close and things would still look great. Still uncertain if I made the right choice... Mixed feelings. It looks better, is sleeker and lighter in weight than my old set, but the picture quality (again without pro tweaking) looks kind of iffy.

I don't really like the texture of this screen. It looks poorly finished and rough compared to my old set. Plus, there's a lot more glare with this new one. The remote control is great.

Thanks.

Have you got Ambient Light Sensor on or the Auto Contrast turned to high? That's the only reason I can think of the backlight getting brighter in some scenes.

Try SerialMike's settings earlier in the thread and then try watching it again to see if that makes a difference. Also, when you talk about picture quality from 3 feet away - you talking about SD or HD content?
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post #1174 of 6195 Old 05-21-2010, 04:33 AM
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If you are using my settings I tweaked em again. I turned off black correction. The RGB tracking along with the white balance track much better and Gamma comes down to a 2.22 avg. Everything seems solid now.
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post #1175 of 6195 Old 05-21-2010, 04:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serialmike View Post

All settings are posted. White balance as per warm1 and warm2 are up. I also post the ire 20-100 avg's of each.

I personally am pretty sure Im going back to warm2.

Serialmike,
When you say your settings are posted, I assume you mean in your sig? When I go there, I see white balance settings for warm 2, but not for warm1. Did you delete the warm1 WB settings?

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post #1176 of 6195 Old 05-21-2010, 04:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSonntag View Post

Serialmike,
When you say your settings are posted, I assume you mean in your sig? When I go there, I see white balance settings for warm 2, but not for warm1. Did you delete the warm1 WB settings?

I took out the warm1. It wasnt nearly as correct over all as a dialed in warm2. Warm 2 took a little more work but is now much much better than warm1 for RGB tracking and gamma along with a more solid white balance.

I dont see any more changes coming.
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post #1177 of 6195 Old 05-21-2010, 05:01 AM
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I`m having a hard time adjusting this set,compared to the previous one I had,there`s a lot more to play with,if you want...after a lot of tinkering,mostly during the day,but it`s in a basement so it`s not that bright,I manage to get it looking pretty awesome but the night/dark scenes are not right...it`s just sort of a uniform dark grey kinda look,as if there`s no contrast per say to the blacks,if you guys know what I mean,and I don`t like that.

I`m hooked up via Component,most of my testing/tweaking so far have been to the eye,with my Satellite(Expressvu)that only does 720p...gaming is pretty awesome,in 1080p,one of the cut-scenes in Bayonetta on the 360 for example looked stunning(it`s my first 1080p set),but I wanna concentrate on the Satellite adjsting first.

Here is the way I settled last evening,after seeing a huge difference in watching during the day,compared to nightime watching with a dim light on(Lost was way too dark,compared to my day settings).

Scene is set to General and Picture mode is Custom:

Backlight: 2
Picture 75
Brightness 54
Color 45
Hue 0
Color Temp neutral
Sharpness 1
noise and MPEG reduction are off
Motion Flow Standard
cinemotion Auto1

Advance setting
contrast enhancer Low
Black corrector Low
Gamma 0
Clear white and Live Color Off

and the one I don`t quite understand what it does but I noticed a huge difference while trying some of you guys setting,is the White balance one,so I left it back to reset....why is the R G B Gain slider all the way to the right but it says 0,while the R G B Bias slider in the middle and it says 0 as well? will playing around with this help me tune the picture for dark scenes? everything else is gorgeous on it...I took a picture but I have a poor camera so that wont show/prove anything...

Thanks for the help guys.
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post #1178 of 6195 Old 05-21-2010, 05:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricard12 View Post

I`m having a hard time adjusting this set,compared to the previous one I had,there`s a lot more to play with,if you want...after a lot of tinkering,mostly during the day,but it`s in a basement so it`s not that bright,I manage to get it looking pretty awesome but the night/dark scenes are not right...it`s just sort of a uniform dark grey kinda look,as if there`s no contrast per say to the blacks,if you guys know what I mean,and I don`t like that.

I`m hooked up via Component,most of my testing/tweaking so far have been to the eye,with my Satellite(Expressvu)that only does 720p...gaming is pretty awesome,in 1080p,one of the cut-scenes in Bayonetta on the 360 for example looked stunning(it`s my first 1080p set),but I wanna concentrate on the Satellite adjsting first.

Here is the way I settled last evening,after seeing a huge difference in watching during the day,compared to nightime watching with a dim light on(Lost was way too dark,compared to my day settings).

Scene is set to General and Picture mode is Custom:

Backlight: 2
Picture 75
Brightness 54
Color 45
Hue 0
Color Temp neutral
Sharpness 1
noise and MPEG reduction are off
Motion Flow Standard
cinemotion Auto1

Advance setting
contrast enhancer Low
Black corrector Low
Gamma 0
Clear white and Live Color Off

and the one I don`t quite understand what it does but I noticed a huge difference while trying some of you guys setting,is the White balance one,so I left it back to reset....why is the R G B Gain slider all the way to the right but it says 0,while the R G B Bias slider in the middle and it says 0 as well? will playing around with this help me tune the picture for dark scenes? everything else is gorgeous on it...I took a picture but I have a poor camera so that wont show/prove anything...

Thanks for the help guys.

You have lost all your dark scene "punch" if you will because you washed the image out with brightness at 54 (way to high) and contrast to low (75)
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post #1179 of 6195 Old 05-21-2010, 06:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodnotes View Post

Have you got Ambient Light Sensor on or the Auto Contrast turned to high? That's the only reason I can think of the backlight getting brighter in some scenes.

Try SerialMike's settings earlier in the thread and then try watching it again to see if that makes a difference. Also, when you talk about picture quality from 3 feet away - you talking about SD or HD content?

I have ALS off and I don't recall what the auto contrast is set to.

I don't have an HD DVD player or HD cable, so everything is just SD. Still, my other set showed everything more beautifully and crisply while fast-forwarding, whereas with this new set it's like watching a VCR's advance, it's so blurry and the image quality seriously degraded. Doesn't seem like the CPU can keep up with what's being demanded of it.

The darker scenes seem odd, as if there's too much gray or a layer of fog, but when the bright/daylight scenes kick in, everything's cool. This was my observation last night, under low-lighting conditions.

There are two DVD's I use to see how good a set is. Shrek 2 and Indian Summer. With Shrek 2, the scene at the start, where the knight rides his horse past the sun that suddenly changes to the moon... Typically, bad sets will show serious color banding in the halo glow during the transition from sun to the moon. This new set passed that test. With Indian Summer, during the opening sailing scene on the lake, the shimmering water typically stutters and shifts and loses it's flow on bad sets. This new set actually performed better than my old set. With this movie, I watch it in zoom mode since the DVD aspect is lower than 16:9. It did very well. Still, though, I'm having a hard time getting past the muddiness and jaggies around the edges of some of the scenes.

Probably just needs more tinkering...I hope.
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post #1180 of 6195 Old 05-21-2010, 11:07 AM
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I like your new settings SerialMike. Looks much better with the black corrector off. I'm using your settings for everything but the 360 and pc because games are 0-255 and not 16-235. I have the scene set to game for 360 and graphics for pc which disables the advanced settings for both. I would like to calibrated both of these to 6500k as well so I'm curious as to what exactly does the game and graphics settings do.
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post #1181 of 6195 Old 05-21-2010, 11:54 AM
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Could anyone confirm wether the 60EX500 comes with a stand or not?
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post #1182 of 6195 Old 05-21-2010, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denis54 View Post

Could anyone confirm wether the 60EX500 comes with a stand or not?

yes
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post #1183 of 6195 Old 05-21-2010, 12:10 PM
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serialmike,

many thanks for the settings. I have mine (60ex500) for the most part similar to your suggestion. I have not touched the white balance, however.

I like the color at 46. Color set to 50 seems high to me. Could this be because I have not touched the white balance. should I?

Another thing I have noticed is that warm1 seems to marginally increase black level compared to warm2. I have to add that warm2 does tend to make whites more yellowish/red tinged=hence warmer. Is the white balance you have in your settings correct this to a picture somewhere inbetween the native white balanced warm1 and warm2?
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post #1184 of 6195 Old 05-21-2010, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sksriniv View Post

serialmike,

many thanks for the settings. I have mine (60ex500) for the most part similar to your suggestion. I have not touched the white balance, however.

I like the color at 46. Color set to 50 seems high to me. Could this be because I have not touched the white balance. should I?

Another thing I have noticed is that warm1 seems to marginally increase black level compared to warm2. I have to add that warm2 does tend to make whites more yellowish/red tinged=hence warmer. Is the white balance you have in your settings correct this to a picture somewhere inbetween the native white balanced warm1 and warm2?

I just spent a about 1 hr and a half on white balance of the set. There is no way for me to get any more accurate with the set than this. Due to the perfectionist in me I struggled to get the tolerances for each ire zone to be as tight as I could. I got it to the point where each of the 10 ire apots were within 100 of 6500 at most. This is considered the best by cnets standards and thats good enough for me.

The coolor that you like lower could be because of reddened faces that could be coming from white balance. Or the particular material you are viewing. I did not find the set to be oversaturated at 50. That was DVE and THX filter recommended setting I still see no reason to move it.
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post #1185 of 6195 Old 05-21-2010, 02:05 PM
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It took alot of the afternoon but it was well worth it. Watching The pacific part one on demand with the new settings. It is really stunning with these settings.
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post #1186 of 6195 Old 05-21-2010, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sksriniv View Post


I like the color at 46. Color set to 50 seems high to me. Could this be because I have not touched the white balance. should I?

It's likely your source unit. Not all players output color the same way......some are on the saturated side, some are not. I'm pretty sure Serial uses a PS3 like I do and using Spears & Munsil, 50 is the sweet spot for color on my 60EX500.
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post #1187 of 6195 Old 05-21-2010, 09:33 PM
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Guess I'll be sending this new set back to Sony. It's causing me great eye discomfort, making me feel sick and slightly dizzy. I had problems with the Samsung DLP's back in 2003 (not sure why) and this new set is producing the same feelings. Maybe I'll just spend $600 and install a new optical block in my old set. It should get me through at least 2-3 more years. I don't need the headaches.

However, I might go with the 52" KDL52-EX700 digital LED that Sony offered, which is what I had originally planned to get.

Here's the link to that thread if interested.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post18672439
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post #1188 of 6195 Old 05-21-2010, 09:48 PM
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I would appreciate if someone could describe the 60EX500 stand for me?

All EX500 TVs seem to have a bolted stand. However for the 60EX500 SONY says it has a "Table Top Stand (attached)". What does that mean? How is it different from the stands for the other EX500 models?

Is it possible to remove the stand and hang the TV from a wall?
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post #1189 of 6195 Old 05-22-2010, 03:17 AM
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KDL-40EX500 menu crashing
==========================================

We just purchase a KDL-40EX500 last week and it was working fine . But after updating the firmware -April 2010 version- [via USB] the menu 'crashed' . Also the remote would not response [except for the on/off power] .

I just updating to the new firmware update -May 2010 version- and the menu still 'crashes' , but this time the on/off power doesn't work .

Where the menu crashes:
-mostly when labeling channels where you have to select text
-occasionally on picture or sound setup menus
-and has crashed once on the XMB menu

*Note: I didn't try the menus that much before the 1st update as we just brought it .

Anyone had this problem and knows what's going on and how to fix it?

Thanks, Josh.
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post #1190 of 6195 Old 05-22-2010, 04:06 AM
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Well it turns out it was the batteries.

We did not use the ones that Sony had provided cause we had spare unused batteries [new] . The expire date on them is 2012 .

Hopefully when the batteries do need replacing we don't need to get Sony ones and we just ended up with a bad batch .

What prompted me it was the batteries:
-controls on TV work for the menu
-removed the batteries , place the same ones back in and remote was working again
-try to crash the menu again and it did
-replace batteries and try to crash it once more , but it doesn't happen .
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post #1191 of 6195 Old 05-22-2010, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denis54 View Post


All EX500 TVs seem to have a bolted stand. However for the 60EX500 SONY says it has a "Table Top Stand (attached)". What does that mean? How is it different from the stands for the other EX500 models?

Is it possible to remove the stand and hang the TV from a wall?

It has a bolted on stand like any Sony LCD has. It does not swivel however and yes....it can be easily removed for hanging on a wall.
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post #1192 of 6195 Old 05-22-2010, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cryogenix View Post

Guess I'll be sending this new set back to Sony. It's causing me great eye discomfort, making me feel sick and slightly dizzy. I had problems with the Samsung DLP's back in 2003 (not sure why) and this new set is producing the same feelings. Maybe I'll just spend $600 and install a new optical block in my old set. It should get me through at least 2-3 more years. I don't need the headaches.

However, I might go with the 52" KDL52-EX700 digital LED that Sony offered, which is what I had originally planned to get.

Here's the link to that thread if interested.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post18672439

Turn off all the cinemotion, motion flow, and all that other junk. It should be a lot better for you.
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post #1193 of 6195 Old 05-22-2010, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serialmike View Post

RGB or PC/CB PR/CR I set to Auto One is for games one is for movies. I let it decide by content.

I have RGB set to limited. It says my set only needs limited. Limited is all you need.

Depending on some of your content RGB FULL is likely a better choice. For one, this setting has no affect on DVD or Blu-ray quality as the PS3 should output that in Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr when BD/DVD Output Format (HDMI) is set to Auto in the Video settings. I recommend setting it to Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr just to be sure.

The PS3 outputs the XMB, games and videos stored on it's HDD in RGB. On my 60EX500 I find with RGB set to limited the colors are washed out and the blacks look grey for the content listed above. You can fix that obviously through the color and brightness adjustments of the TV to get it looking right but then it throws off your DVD/Blu-ray playback by making it look way too dark when those values were originally set correctly using a calibration DVD/Blu-ray.
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post #1194 of 6195 Old 05-22-2010, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Hawk View Post

Depending on some of your content RGB FULL is likely a better choice. For one, this setting has no affect on DVD or Blu-ray quality as the PS3 should output that in Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr when BD/DVD Output Format (HDMI) is set to Auto in the Video settings. I recommend setting it to Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr just to be sure.

The PS3 outputs the XMB, games and videos stored on it's HDD in RGB. On my 60EX500 I find with RGB set to limited the colors are washed out and the blacks look grey for the content listed above. You can fix that obviously through the color and brightness adjustments of the TV to get it looking right but then it throws off your DVD/Blu-ray playback by making it look way to dark when those values were set correctly using a calibration DVD/Blu-ray.

Most games don't output in RGB, I've done a lot of testing with this and all it does is crush details into black. Best to simply come up with custom settings for your PS3, that is what I had to do to get it looking right. (PS3 games for some reason seem to have a higher base brightness setting than 360 games)

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post #1195 of 6195 Old 05-22-2010, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cryogenix View Post


However, I might go with the 52" KDL52-EX700 digital LED that Sony offered, which is what I had originally planned to get.

Here's the link to that thread if interested.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post18672439

I checked out your post in that thread:

Quote:


I'm solving several problems by returning this 55" LCD set and getting the 52" LED instead. That will solve my eye fatigue, the sweeping brightness across the dark screen when moving around, and should give me blacker blacks.

Sorry but the answer is no to all of those when comparing the 55EX500 to the 52EX700. The EX700 has worse off angle viewing, lighter bluish blacks.

Quote:


I was very disappointed with how much color washing goes on when you move to the side of the TV from 10 to 30 feet away. The further away you get and even only slightly off to the side, the color loses its robustness and richness and turns kind of hazy. Very bad viewing angles with this LCD

The EX700 is worse but this a fact of life for all LCD.

My suggestion would be the following if you can work it:

Forget the 52EX700 and ask about the 60EX500. It easily has the best viewing angles of any Sony LCD set I've seen. It uses a different panel than the 55EX500. If that doesn't work for you my other suggestion would be to simply sell the Sony and go get yourself a Plasma. It should be easier on your sensitive eyes and there's no off angle viewing issues whatsoever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

Most games don't output in RGB, I've done a lot of testing with this and all it does is crush details into black. Best to simply come up with custom settings for your PS3

Or simply tweak the brightness in the video options of the game itself since most of them have that feature. But you could also do it in the TV as well since one of the nice features of the current Sonys is Scene Mode.....you could (and should) set it to "Game" when playing your PS3 games and that allows you to have completely different calibration settings compared to say "General" which you could set up for your DVD/Blu-ray viewing.
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post #1196 of 6195 Old 05-22-2010, 06:03 PM
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Or simply tweak the brightness in the video options of the game itself since most of them have that feature. But you could also do it in the TV as well since one of the nice features of the current Sonys is Scene Mode.....you could (and should) set it to "Game" when playing your PS3 games and that allows you to have completely different calibration settings compared to say "General" which you could set up for your DVD/Blu-ray viewing.

I tried raising the TV brightness, the detail is simply gone when set to RGB full. (in game brightness just washes it out again, and some details are still missing) I currently have a Sammy Plasma and I have Dynamic Contrast turned on and the black enhancer on as well, it fixes the washed out look without crushing any details, and it only works for the PS3, it crushes any other source terribly.

I have tested RGB full with almost every set I have owned and it simply does not work for games. Thankfully my PS3 is a game player only, I have a separate blu-ray player for movies. (I want to upgrade my old Panny player to a Sony 370 as those suckers actually beat a PS3 in nearly every area of movie playback)

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post #1197 of 6195 Old 05-23-2010, 06:36 AM
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Well I finally did it, I went out and bought a 55EX500, and I must say I'm impressed so far. A huge step up in picture quality from my old 51" RPTV.

Even out of the box, the settings looks pretty good for just about every thing I've tried to watch (from Avatar, to the hockey game), but I have ordered the DVE HD Basics BR disc, so I will eventually do some tweaking.

A few minor annoyances though, both are with the TV's interaction with my Logitech Harmony One remote.

First of all, that annoying spash screen every time the TV is turned on, as TV ignores commands from the remote during this period of time. I set my Harmony remote to wait a 13 second "warmup period" after turning the TV on before issuing any commands (ie setting the input) which seems to have solved the problem, but it's a still a minor annoyance.

The other annoying thing is that this TV doesn't seem to have any IR code that it accepts to jump directly to "Component 2". Every other input seems fine except "Component 2". My solution was to switch to "Component 1" and then issue an "InputNext" command, followed by the "Select" command. This seems to have solved the problem, but just seems a little more cumbersome than it should be. Does anyone else have this problem?

These are both minor gripes, but the important stuff (ie picture quality) has been very impressive.
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post #1198 of 6195 Old 05-23-2010, 08:10 AM
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Mine was delivered yesterday afternoon.

Perfection is unattainable.
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post #1199 of 6195 Old 05-23-2010, 01:22 PM
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The other annoying thing is that this TV doesn't seem to have any IR code that it accepts to jump directly to "Component 2". Every other input seems fine except "Component 2". My solution was to switch to "Component 1" and then issue an "InputNext" command, followed by the "Select" command. This seems to have solved the problem, but just seems a little more cumbersome than it should be. Does anyone else have this problem?

When you add the 55EX500 as a device on your Harmony make sure you go into the "customize buttons" area for the TV. Under "additional buttons" make sure InputVideo 2 is listed amongst them. If it's not listed the IR code will not be added to the remote and thus your activity won't work correctly. I had to do this for my 60EX500 as it didn't have any of the direct input buttons listed. After I added them everything worked fine after that.
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post #1200 of 6195 Old 05-23-2010, 02:34 PM
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how does this panal do as a PC gaming monitor? looking at the 32 version.
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Reply LCD Flat Panel Displays

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Sony Bravia 60 Inch Lcd Hdtv Kdl 60ex500 , Sony Bravia V Series Kdl 52v5100 52 Inch 1080p 120hz Lcd Hdtv Black
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