the "help me choose an LCD" thread - Page 179 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #5341 of 5360 Old 07-09-2014, 09:21 PM
AVS Special Member
 
tubetwister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Sacramento delta N. Cal. usa
Posts: 1,913
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 123 Post(s)
Liked: 270
For sister, One of the Vizio , Samsung 5xxxLCD ,48 W600 Sony or 50l2400U Toshiba . I would lean towards the last 3 personally.
Toshiba 50l24000 /50l1400U scores an average of 4.7 (high ) on BB consumer reviews Sony 4.5 (allowing for statistical variations and loons about the same ) I don't know about the Samsung 5xxx score I'm sure it's good they are decent I almost bought one but couldn't find one with the right panel (s) it made a visual difference to *me* having seen the Sammys both ways .

Ended up with a 2013 40" R4 Sony with a decent Samsung VA panel 4700:1 contrast good blacks no regrets . Real TV around here is a Sammy 60f5300 PDP ☺.

The Soviet people feared the KGB was watching them through their TV's ........or listening to them through their radios, so they kept them turned off often when they wanted privacy .

Now the NSA/ DHS are in fact watching us with our computers cell phones surveillance cameras drones,satellites etc !
...

Last edited by tubetwister; 07-09-2014 at 10:31 PM.
tubetwister is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #5342 of 5360 Old 07-09-2014, 10:09 PM
AVS Special Member
 
tubetwister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Sacramento delta N. Cal. usa
Posts: 1,913
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 123 Post(s)
Liked: 270
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post
According to Amazon the w850a uses Dynamic Edge Lit. Not sure what the Dynamic means but they do not mention FALD. I hope the replacement 70w850b shows no radial banding this time. It's a shame that my current w850a has such pronounced clouding and flash lighting because it is very apparent during any dark scenes. The w850a is selling for under $1800 and under $1500 at some stores while the w850b is still over $2k most places. For the 2014 model year it seems that Sony is not offering a real replacement for the 65w850a. Reviews for the w950 do not compere favoribly at all to the 850a even though the 950 is advertised as the heir. Tubetwister, how do you think the PQ would be today if if they had not moved to LED back lighting and stayed with CCFL?
re tubetwister
You are right no FALD ,edge lit too !my bad ! The dynamic edge light *may be zone dimming * it has Triluminos
though that's a plus ( at least I think it is some say it does nothing without 10 bit color program like 4K ) .
I fixed /Edited my mistake thanks for pointing that out !
Hope your replacement 70" works out Cnet's Katzmier liked the pix lots said it was brighter than most displays !

Good question about the CCFL thing I have a 2012 Toshiba CCFL set thay destroys a lot of newer LEDs
and is very close to and brighter than my 2013 R4 Sony LED. took me a good while to get the pix right on that one
but once that was done it's very good the contrast and blacks on the R4 pretty much match the 2014 800B and handily beat the new W600 Sonys that replaced it imagine that... it gave me reason to wonder where Sony is going these days.


Seems like the CCFL's didn't have all these panel issues either .
I think they went to LED's ultimately to save money and ofc energy . Now they are trying to replace household CCFL with much more expensive LED's the energy and environmental zealots are out of control time for a revolution
get rid of you know who and the cabinet also !
IIRC They had some some real decent Sony 9xx or XBR CCFL couple of years ago.

The Soviet people feared the KGB was watching them through their TV's ........or listening to them through their radios, so they kept them turned off often when they wanted privacy .

Now the NSA/ DHS are in fact watching us with our computers cell phones surveillance cameras drones,satellites etc !
...

Last edited by tubetwister; Yesterday at 12:21 PM.
tubetwister is online now  
post #5343 of 5360 Old 07-09-2014, 10:27 PM
AVS Special Member
 
andy sullivan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: sun city west AZ
Posts: 3,039
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Liked: 131
Yep, I agree with you about LED. Personally I think the two main reasons for the advent of LED is thin is sexy and sexy sells. Reason number two, it was originally marketed by Samsung in a manner that led people to think LED was actually some great new technology. They played on the public's awareness of LED and led them to believe that it was something other than just a different way to back light the old LCD technology. Now that it's accepted as the holy grail we'll never know how good CCFL would have become. My guess is that it would be much better than LED is today. TV's may have been a little thicker and heavier but with little or no screen uniformity problems and much better black levels and contrast. Now that LED is saturating the market they have given us 4K, Hey, whatever it takes to sell TV's.
tubetwister likes this.
andy sullivan is online now  
post #5344 of 5360 Old 07-09-2014, 11:56 PM
AVS Special Member
 
tubetwister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Sacramento delta N. Cal. usa
Posts: 1,913
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 123 Post(s)
Liked: 270
agree on all points first they charged a hefty premium for a smaller (cheaper ) also a switching power supply like CCFL had only smaller
nothing new there ,eliminated CCFL backlight inverter board Same LCD panels (or at least the technology ) changed the diffusers for edge light on those types smaller cheaper LED strips for direct lit and cheap LED light bar for edge lite tried to make everyone believe blue LED with white phosphor
(or whatever they use ) and color banding cloudy flashlighting edge light was better somehow + LED made better white light than CCFL that made same white light what a scam and good profit move .

Otoh some TV are real cheap now but that wasn't why they did it that just happened because tens of millions of TV are being made cheap in PRC .

The Soviet people feared the KGB was watching them through their TV's ........or listening to them through their radios, so they kept them turned off often when they wanted privacy .

Now the NSA/ DHS are in fact watching us with our computers cell phones surveillance cameras drones,satellites etc !
...

Last edited by tubetwister; Yesterday at 12:00 AM.
tubetwister is online now  
post #5345 of 5360 Old Yesterday, 07:47 AM
Newbie
 
tgoulart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Upgrade to 32" Panny - Advice Appreciated

I am just starting to look around for upgrade options and want to concentrate on Pannys and Samsung. A few facts:

1. Budget: $1,000
2. Use: Living Room (not main TV)
3. Sources: TWC Cable, BluRay and streaming Netflix
4. Viewing: ~6 ft.
5. 3D unimportant
6. Reasonably bright room, but on east side of house so evening viewing unaffected by sunlight

Some research has me believing the Samsung UN46F6300 and Panasonic TC-L47WT50 should be in the mix.

Any recommendations to get me started would be appreciated.
tgoulart is online now  
post #5346 of 5360 Old Yesterday, 09:03 AM
Member
 
Wondercarrot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 49
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hi All,

while i seem to have bought into the value proposition of the Vizio e600 b series (60" or 65") by the time i ship it to canada its going to be in the $1500 vicinity.
So not really a value proposition at that price is it?

Its not the 'movie' TV etc - its the decent living room one that repeatedly gets broken by one of my many children, lol.
Given i cannot return the children, ive decide to get less expensive TV's.

Its a pretty bright room etc - and while plasma's have been OK there (glare wise) id like to change it up unless i bought the samsung F8500 for its impressive brightness for a plasma (which again i dont really want to spend the $2200 this time around)

So that having been said just looking for some help picking one out somewhere in the $1200-$1400 range.
General TV watching , cartoons and sports (hockey, football).
PQ and motion would be the priorities. (well for me anyway - wife and kids dont care lol)

thanks
Wondercarrot is offline  
post #5347 of 5360 Old Yesterday, 09:50 AM
Senior Member
 
Hogan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 449
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by tubetwister View Post
In case you are interested This seller is blowing out these refurb 2014 Vizio 40" E400i-B2 Smart LED HD TV 1080p HDMI Built-in WiFi Internet Apps for $249.00 swinging deal for the $$

I bought a 2013 40" Sony R4 from them it was new and unused only slightly damaged box seller has those also $343.00 . I would buy another!
of the two I would choose the Sony (better panel ) no tax free shipping it got here in 5 days ! dude must have hijacked another container ship he's already sold 343 of those Vizios ! he has other stuff also they sell tons of sets over 1,500 a month good percentage on feedback
top rated plus ebay seller ,not easy to maintain that rating when you sell that much with all the loons out there
I wouldn't think too long about this one B4 thay are gone ! It's not a Sony but not bad has wifi too better than a lot of 40's

Hi all - longtime member way back past the DLP days......back in to help choose a 40" set for living room to go in a certain media cabinet (wifey is one of those "must have doors on it" people so this limits me to a 36.5 wide unit, so I think 40" is where I max out.

Basically I am upgrading a 30" TUBE Panasonic 16:9 with 1080i, one of the first "HDTVs" and it is a heavy beeyotch.

I want BEST VALUE and it seems the Vizio E400i-B2 is probably that, for me. Still looking at the M-series too, as well as Sammy UN40H6350 and Sony KDL-40W600B. But honestly as long as the Vizio is "good" I will probably not pay up the extra couple hundo for those other names. I have a 37" Vizio in the bedroom past 4 years and it is also "fine" for us and I am not a super AVS critic - I just want a TV that will look good and work well.

3 Questions: 1) see several negative reviews on the Vizio due to the remote. Is that just because you need to aim at the lower corner? If yes, I can do that and teach my family to do that. If not then I need to consider.

2) Any reasons I am missing as to why it makes more sense to pay up for a Samsung or Sony? Remember that I am not a super picky, I just want some decent calibration settings.

3) SPECIFICALLY WITH RESPECT TO THE EBAY REFURBS mentioned above, I am very intrigued. For $250 vs $389+tax at Costco, is it worth the risk? I have seen mention of E400s that "clicked" when off or were noisy or other problems. My worry is that I will spend $250 on one of those which are basically returns from Costco or Walmart and then I'll be stuck if I get one that has a problem (and perhaps by definition it will be more likely a problem child if it was returned by someone else). Any thoughts or is it just the old "save $150 and gamble" proposition?
Hogan is offline  
post #5348 of 5360 Old Yesterday, 11:28 AM
AVS Special Member
 
tubetwister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Sacramento delta N. Cal. usa
Posts: 1,913
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 123 Post(s)
Liked: 270
Hogan wrote

3) SPECIFICALLY WITH RESPECT TO THE EBAY REFURBS mentioned above, I am very intrigued. For $250 vs $389+tax at Costco, is it worth the risk? I have seen mention of E400s that "clicked" when off or were noisy or other problems. My worry is that I will spend $250 on one of those which are basically returns from Costco or Walmart and then I'll be stuck if I get one that has a problem (and perhaps by definition it will be more likely a problem child if it was returned by someone else). Any thoughts or is it just the old "save $150 and gamble" proposition?

re/ tubetwister Internet connection dept. here. ☺

Actually the majority of the refurbs from the high volume resellers on ebay are brand new and unused just out of the retail sales channel. Same thing with computers there .
You are covered by whatever warranty the seller offers (60 days in the case of Quick Ship Electronics ) , E bay and or Pay Pal Buyer Protection so the risks are negligible to nonexistent if you use a top rated or top rated plus seller . Ebay top rated plus sellers have a higher positive transaction feedback percentage then brick and mortar stores including Best Buy the numbers are there . Also in the case of TV's most of the top rated sellers test their products so the likelihood of a DOA is negligible . One of the best values new with a good picture is the Toshiba line .
,

Most of the high volume refurb TV EB re sellers are selling unused stock rotations discontinued and/or unsold mfr overruns ,cancelled ,orders or damaged cartons only and in fact not store returns you would be more likely to find actual refurb repairs or store returns at Wal mart ,Tiger Direct ,Sears ,or Newegg.

Everyone has differing risk aversion tolerance . TBH a brand new Vizio (and a lot of other brands) exceed my risk aversion tolerance . None of the top tier brands are risky IMO . I have 5 sets (6 ) if you count the garage with the oldest being a 2012 model . I have Sony ,Samsung,Toshiba ,and LG although I wouldn't hesitate to buy a Panasonic either .

In a word as to why to why the top tier brands (Sony,Toshiba,Panasonic,Toshiba,and LG cost more than Vizio is quality. Ask any repair tech .

Your money buy what you want .

The Soviet people feared the KGB was watching them through their TV's ........or listening to them through their radios, so they kept them turned off often when they wanted privacy .

Now the NSA/ DHS are in fact watching us with our computers cell phones surveillance cameras drones,satellites etc !
...

Last edited by tubetwister; Yesterday at 12:09 PM.
tubetwister is online now  
post #5349 of 5360 Old Yesterday, 11:51 AM
Senior Member
 
Hogan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 449
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by tubetwister View Post
Hogan wrote

3) SPECIFICALLY WITH RESPECT TO THE EBAY REFURBS mentioned above, I am very intrigued. For $250 vs $389+tax at Costco, is it worth the risk? I have seen mention of E400s that "clicked" when off or were noisy or other problems. My worry is that I will spend $250 on one of those which are basically returns from Costco or Walmart and then I'll be stuck if I get one that has a problem (and perhaps by definition it will be more likely a problem child if it was returned by someone else). Any thoughts or is it just the old "save $150 and gamble" proposition?

re/ tubetwister Internet connection dept. here. ☺

Actually the majority of the refurbs from the high volume resellers on ebay are brand new and unused just out of the retail sales channel. Same thing with computers there .
You are covered by whatever warranty the seller offers (60 days in the case of Quick Ship Electronics ) , E bay and or Pay Pal Buyer Protection so the risks are negligible to nonexistent if you use a top rated or top rated plus seller . Ebay top rated plus sellers have a higher positive transaction feedback percentage then brick and mortar stores including Best Buy the numbers are there . Also the top rated sellers test their products so the likelihood of a DOA is negligible .
,

Most of the high volume retailers are selling unused stock rotations discontinued and/or unsold mfr overruns ,cancelled ,orders or damaged cartons only and in fact not store returns you would be more likely to find actual refurb repairs or store returns at Wal mart ,Tiger Direct ,Sears ,or Newegg.

Everyone has differing risk aversion tolerance . TBH a brand new Vizio exceeds my risk aversion tolerance .

In a word as to why to why the top tier brands (Sony,Toshiba,Panasonic,Toshiba,and LG cost more than Vizio is quality. Ask any repair tech .

Your money buy what you want .
Thanks - I was just assuming that a new model like the Vizio that had only been in the sales channel for a few months would not have many "mfr overruns, cancelled orders, etc" but I really have no idea.

When you say a brand new Vizio exceeds your risk you are basically saying you think they are junk and it is too risky to buy one at all? (just making sure I understand your point)

I am going to wade into the ocean that is a 4000 post thread on E series and M series and read a bit, although honestly I can't read 4000 posts about people back and forth on little tweak settings but I'll try to at least read the first 10 and last 10 pages.
Hogan is offline  
post #5350 of 5360 Old Yesterday, 12:57 PM
AVS Special Member
 
tubetwister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Sacramento delta N. Cal. usa
Posts: 1,913
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 123 Post(s)
Liked: 270
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hogan View Post
Thanks - I was just assuming that a new model like the Vizio that had only been in the sales channel for a few months would not have many "mfr overruns, cancelled orders, etc" but I really have no idea.

When you say a brand new Vizio exceeds your risk you are basically saying you think they are junk and it is too risky to buy one at all? (just making sure I understand your point)

I am going to wade into the ocean that is a 4000 post thread on E series and M series and read a bit, although honestly I can't read 4000 posts about people back and forth on little tweak settings but I'll try to at least read the first 10 and last 10 pages.
I've never owned a Vizio but have had good luck with the other brands I mentioned in the last ~25 yrs.
I have read unfavorable comments in some threads here and on retailer review sites ,DOA bad panels ,no sound ,turning off and some very unfavorable comments from long time TV techs here at AVS they call them "throw away sets " .

Nothing wrong with selling *cheaper or less expensive and not as good *. The Alfred P sloan GM business model was based on that with Chevrolet on the bottom and with Cadillac being the aspirational brand on top
and the others in between in ascending order .

A little different than Henry Ford at the time
who said " You can have any color you want as long at it is black " Ford was eventually forced to get on board with Mercury and Lincoln . This is the most widely emulated business model in history
eg; Toyota and Lexus . ofc Even Vizio is getting on board with the M ,P and possibly the reference models . Those models might elevate the brand if executed well not an unreasonable long term strategy
I'm not saying current Visio are junk just *maybe not as good * as some of the other brands that's all

I worked in business unit management for large multinationals for well over 30 yrs so I'm not unfamiliar
with retailing ,re selling ,manufacturing,supply chains or parts and materials sourcing , insourcing and outsourcing as well as brand management.

The Visio business model is nothing new or unique they sell cheaper or less expensive ,not necessarily the bottom but *maybe not as good as a tier one brand* they source their sets from the same OEM/ODM houses as most top brands .

Visio and some of the top brands use TPV,Wistron , Amtran and others . Most of the top tier brands don't make many of their own sets anymore save for a few premium models even at that many of those also are outsourced to Foxconn or the other OEM /ODM houses .

Knowing supply chains and manufacturing as I do
I can only imagine that with the costs of goods being similar at the the OEM/ODM manufacturer between all the client brands a competitive advantage could be found in sourcing cheaper designs and possibly less expensive and in some cases possibly inferior quality parts as compared to top brands .

I've seen that all to many times nothing new there all things being equal that's the most logical and possibly only place to significantly cut costs of goods and thus prices. I try to look at the most logical business case it's nothing personal just business analysis based on business experience and some research that's what I do.

Can't say that's 100% the Vizio business case But I can't think of any other competitive advantage that would significantly bolster their lower retail price either given they use the same OEM/ODM mfrs .,distribution and and sales channels as a lot of the top brands .

The Soviet people feared the KGB was watching them through their TV's ........or listening to them through their radios, so they kept them turned off often when they wanted privacy .

Now the NSA/ DHS are in fact watching us with our computers cell phones surveillance cameras drones,satellites etc !
...

Last edited by tubetwister; Yesterday at 01:54 PM.
tubetwister is online now  
post #5351 of 5360 Old Yesterday, 01:16 PM
AVS Special Member
 
tubetwister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Sacramento delta N. Cal. usa
Posts: 1,913
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 123 Post(s)
Liked: 270
removed

The Soviet people feared the KGB was watching them through their TV's ........or listening to them through their radios, so they kept them turned off often when they wanted privacy .

Now the NSA/ DHS are in fact watching us with our computers cell phones surveillance cameras drones,satellites etc !
...

Last edited by tubetwister; Yesterday at 01:55 PM.
tubetwister is online now  
post #5352 of 5360 Old Yesterday, 01:33 PM
Senior Member
 
Hogan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 449
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by tubetwister View Post
I've never owned a Vizio but have had good luck with the other brands I mentioned in the last ~25 yrs.
I have read unfavorable comments in some threads here and on retailer review sites ,DOA bad panels ,no sound ,turning off and some very unfavorable comments from long time TV techs here at AVS they call them "throw away sets " .

I worked in business unit management for large multinationals for well over 30 yrs so I'm not unfamiliar
with retailing ,re selling ,manufacturing,supply chains or parts and materials sourcing , insourcing and outsourcing as well as brand management.

The Visio business model is nothing new or unique they sell cheaper ,not necessarily the bottom but maybe not as good as a tier one brand they source their sets from the same OEM/ODM houses as most top brands . Visio and some of the top brands use TPV,Wistron , Amtran and others . Most of the top tier brands don't make many of their own sets anymore save for a few premium models even at that many of those also are outsourced to Foxconn or the other OEM /ODM houses .

Knowing supply chains and manufacturing as I do
I can only imagine that with the costs of goods being similar at the the OEM/ODM manufacturer between all the client brands a competitive advantage could be found in sourcing cheaper designs and possibly less expensive and in some cases possibly inferior quality parts as compared to top brands .
I've seen that all to many times nothing new there all things being equal that's the most logical and possibly only place to significantly cut costs of goods and thus prices. I try to look at the most logical business case it's nothing personal just business analysis based on experience and some research that's what I do.

Can't say that's 100% the Vizio business case But I can't think of any other competitive advantage that would significantly bolster their lower retail price either given they use the same OEM/ODM mfrs .,distribution and and sales channels as a lot of the top brands .
Ok - well you've never owned one so I guess you are just going on other posts that you see. They are wildly popular and at this point I have trouble really seeing lots of improvements in picture when you go to other brands, and I also see reports of Samsungs and Sonys having problems too. If the price differential were $25 I'd go with those. When it is 50% more to get a name brand it makes it harder.
Hogan is offline  
post #5353 of 5360 Old Yesterday, 02:09 PM
AVS Special Member
 
tubetwister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Sacramento delta N. Cal. usa
Posts: 1,913
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 123 Post(s)
Liked: 270
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hogan View Post
Ok - well you've never owned one so I guess you are just going on other posts that you see. They are wildly popular and at this point I have trouble really seeing lots of improvements in picture when you go to other brands, and I also see reports of Samsungs and Sonys having problems too. If the price differential were $25 I'd go with those. When it is 50% more to get a name brand it makes it harder.
Actually partly on that but much more so on my analysis of their business model and past performance both good indicators of current and future performance . (Again that's what I do ) We based many business decisions and multinational divestitures and acquisitions and purchasing decisions on these methods , a long established practice that works well most of the time nothing is perfect though .


Seems like your Panasonic CRT gave you good value all in all as one would expect of Panasonic .
Another thing to look at is brand loyalty over the years another good indicator of quality .

There is certainly value in favorable pricing one should always consider quality also ,long term durability,features and benefits, performance and price are all factors that should enter a buying decision process . Good luck lots to choose from.

PS I legitimately tried to shop for a 2014 Visio B model last year( good price and all) but the picture ,fit and finish
and prior experience with Sony won out

If you get one that's good there would be value there .
I don't know what the MTBF (mean time between failure specifications ) Visio uses when sourcing parts there are quite a few variations available (another possible way to cut costs ) where as I have a good idea with the other brands that I buy .
I've bought Sony's Toshiba's and one Samsung PDP for the last 25 yrs anyway .

Kid proof TV
Attached Images
File Type: jpg allclearTV.jpg (53.2 KB, 0 views)

The Soviet people feared the KGB was watching them through their TV's ........or listening to them through their radios, so they kept them turned off often when they wanted privacy .

Now the NSA/ DHS are in fact watching us with our computers cell phones surveillance cameras drones,satellites etc !
...

Last edited by tubetwister; Yesterday at 03:06 PM.
tubetwister is online now  
post #5354 of 5360 Old Yesterday, 02:41 PM
Senior Member
 
Hogan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 449
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by tubetwister View Post
Actually partly on that but much more so on my analysis of their business model and past performance both good indicators of current and future performance . (Again that's what I do ) We based many business decisions and multinational divestitures and acquisitions and purchasing decisions on these methods , a long established practice that works well most of the time nothing is perfect though .

Mostly Panasonic And some Sony were the AV products we used corporate wide (globally ) also even though that was not our business but we had in house business units and purchasing depts that took care of that for us
not to mention our own TV and film production facilities despite not being in that business .

Seems like your Panasonic CRT gave you good value all in all as one would expect of Panasonic .
Another thing to look at is brand loyalty over the years another good indicator of quality .

There is certainly value in favorable pricing one should always consider quality also ,long term durability,features and benefits, performance and price are all factors that should enter a buying decision process . good luck
I think TVs are becoming much more of a commodity (really for awhile now) and if Vizio is sourcing panels from the same manufacturers then their sets should be similar. Actually CNET thinks their panels, with full array LED in 2014, are BETTER than some offerings from the "majors". Your assumption is that Vizio is cutting corners somewhere and that might be true. But could also be that the majors are covering 1) smaller sales unit volumes 2) higher advertising, 3) higher profit margin targets, etc. Usually you "get what you pay for" but this would be like saying that items sold at Costco (I'm not talking TVs but in general) are all of inferior quality by definition since their price is lower. And we know that is not the case. Costco accepts a lower margin and also does big volume. Possible that Vizio also is accepting a lower margin with the goal of continuing to penetrate market share (which it seems very successful in doing) and pressure the big guys (although on a sales basis Vizio is certainly a big guy too). And if it is very hard for people to tell the difference in picture quality, then it is also hard for them to pay 1.5 or 2.0x as much for an otherwise identical set just because it says Sony or Samsung. If Sony or Samsung could really articulate WHY their sets were better (more robust components, etc) then don't you think they would do so as a form of supporting their higher price point? Yet they don't, they just rely on this halo of perception that they must be better. Also the failure rates according to Consumer Reports aren't appreciably different so it is hard to assume that all the innards of a Samsung are somehow made of gold while the Vizio is held together with chewing gum.
Hogan is offline  
post #5355 of 5360 Old Yesterday, 02:58 PM
AVS Special Member
 
andy sullivan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: sun city west AZ
Posts: 3,039
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Liked: 131
Buying a new TV these days is really a crap shoot. TV's have become such a commodity in 2014 that brand loyalty is no longer deserved. Once upon a time the names like Sony, Panasonic, Pioneer, Hitachi, Toshiba, Mitsubishi really meant something. Today they are buying panels from China and Tiwan and who knows where else. You must wonder where they are outsoucing many other components from. How much Sony is in a Sony? Tubetwister may be able to shed some light on this persumption on my part but I don't think that for 2014 Sony is building a single 2k set that is as good as their 2013 65w850a.
andy sullivan is online now  
post #5356 of 5360 Old Yesterday, 03:35 PM
AVS Special Member
 
tubetwister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Sacramento delta N. Cal. usa
Posts: 1,913
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 123 Post(s)
Liked: 270
Tv's are more commodities than they used to be but OTOH there are many different MTBF specs on parts also grades of panels A,B,C Most of the old line brands are using OEM/ ODM manufacturing also but often providing ,specifying or more importantly sourcing many of the parts .

Actually inexpensive local dimming can make a panel appear to be better than it is I've already proven that conclusively in the case of a conventional Sony vs a Vizio FALD measured panel performance comparison in an earlier posting in this thread not much I can add there. (the Sony had a Samsung SPVA rear lit LED/LCD similar to the Visio panel with the difference being FALD in the Visio.


All the TV panels come from maybe 6 or 7 suppliers at best in various quality grades and specs. they are all having issues no matter the TV especially on the larger panel and even more so with the larger edge light panels that is a consequence of lighter thinner LED/LCD panel being used now as opposed from the more robust CCFL/LCD panels .

It's also true Visio does not have the legacy costs of the traditional leading brands and thus may not have the
resultant margin pressures but another thing I've done is look at pictures
of circuit boards from the various brands I buy and Visio ( I did that when I was thinking purchasing about one )
Not only did Samsung ,Sony and LG and (Toshiba in most cases )all have their own embedded video processors they all
with few exceptions also had readily identifiable name brand board level parts such as premium Rubycon capacitors across the board. Vizio could also have fine no name parts as well .
None of that to be found on any other brand other than Panasonic which ofc use well regarded Panasonic capacitors .
these and things in my prior postings are just things I've based my personal preferences on YMMV.

TBH the AVS postings were the smallest factor in my impressions *of Vizio sets* . IMO (whether true or not ) lot of Vizio buyers are newbies or otherwise perhaps in many cases not as experienced as posters in the perhaps plasma ,LG ,etc and Sony threads except for a couple of repair technicians that posted here calling them "throw away sets " ofc there are exceptions but that is my general impression right or wrong . and as far as reviews
other than hard # measurement and calibration reports I take them with a grain of salt as well .

The old saying goes when anybody hires a statistician or reviewer is that the first thing they will ask of their new employer is
"what position would you like me to support "

The Soviet people feared the KGB was watching them through their TV's ........or listening to them through their radios, so they kept them turned off often when they wanted privacy .

Now the NSA/ DHS are in fact watching us with our computers cell phones surveillance cameras drones,satellites etc !
...

Last edited by tubetwister; Yesterday at 04:28 PM.
tubetwister is online now  
post #5357 of 5360 Old Today, 02:17 AM
AVS Special Member
 
tubetwister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Sacramento delta N. Cal. usa
Posts: 1,913
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 123 Post(s)
Liked: 270
[quote=quahog99;25622297]
Quote:
Originally Posted by tubetwister View Post

Thanks for the tip!

From their websites and from all the reviews I can find, LG and Panasonic don't appear to do IPS below 42" in their current lineup. Toshiba, much less info available on panel types for any of their TVs -- if you have a pointer to a model that would be great.

Unfortunately, having looked at some TVs in the store, wife is ready to veto 42" as too big. Frankly, I'd prefer smaller too. I suspect we stay with the old IPS Panasonic in the LR, and buy a new 32" for the basement. We'll worry about the lack of quality features in the size we want when the Panny gives out (of course by then, probably even 42" will be bottom-end only).
re tubetwister

This set is a steal right now at Amazon LG 42LN5300 @ $319.00
I have one of these in the stable of 6 sets here good set was selling for about $459.00 not long ago it has a slim bezel
even though it's 2" bigger than you want it's a very good deal good set good brand

Toshiba 40L1400U 40" Class 1080P LED TV real good 40" $349.00 should be as good as LG
good pix good games set good brand

Sony KDL40W600B 40-Inch 1080p 60Hz I have last years R4 Model excellent set as usual for Sony not cheap but good set good brand carries the usual Sony Premium price . great gamer low lag time $479.00

Samsung UN40FH6030 40-Inch 1080p
Real decent 40"LED has active 3D 120Hz panel from a top brand $399.00

Samsung UN39FH5000 39-Inch 1080p 60Hz LED TV
Decent LED for 39" for $329.00 5xxx Sammys are decent

42 LG led and 40"Toshiba LED are good value 40" samsung is good 40" Sony carries the usual Sony price of admission for the Sony club membership and Sony glow all are pretty good sets IMO all of these should have decent pix.

40" Sony is an Samsung SPVA rear light panel decent modern look and the usual Sony quality fit and finish .
and Sony natural color along with excellent Sony reality pro processing No 3D
60 Hz panel


42"LG is rear light also excellent buy thin as rear lights go good picture lots of picture setting features .
LG IPS panel will have widest (good ) view angle .Equipped with an LG Triple XD Engine No 3D
Seven picture modes including Vivid, Standard, Cinema, Sport, Game, Expert1 and Exp 2
No 3D 60 Hz Panel

40"samsung is rear light also good set should have nice bright picture
Wide Color Enhancer Plus Supports Active 3D Technology 120 Hz panel Active 3D

39" Samsung is rear light good set very similar to 40" no 3D 60Hz panel

40" Toshiba is edge light and very thin good picture like the others Toshiba usually has vibrant color .
No 3D 60Hz panel

let us know what you get.

The Soviet people feared the KGB was watching them through their TV's ........or listening to them through their radios, so they kept them turned off often when they wanted privacy .

Now the NSA/ DHS are in fact watching us with our computers cell phones surveillance cameras drones,satellites etc !
...

Last edited by tubetwister; Today at 02:48 AM.
tubetwister is online now  
post #5358 of 5360 Old Today, 05:04 AM
Newbie
 
stunaz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hey guys

I'm looking for a 60"+ tv (non smart/non 3d pref - its just a monitor) to use as a monitor with my PC/htpc
price: as low as possible

currently using an old 46" sharp lcd, and after moving it just seems too small (viewing distance)
What would you recommend that can be bought/shipped to Canada?

ps. has anyone tried these chenghong sets? http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...-018-_-Product

also there is this.. any good?
http://search.dell.com/results.aspx?...U8Ul9HoFvPbXWQ

60" LN5750 (smart 3d though, so i feel like i'd be paying for features that will never be used)

Last edited by stunaz; Today at 05:39 AM.
stunaz is online now  
post #5359 of 5360 Old Today, 09:04 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 24
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 3
So I've actually read every post on vizio on this forum and I have read more positive things about it then negative . Picture is right on par with most other 70s I was looking at . Ultimately was between 70 sony w850 and the vizio . The sony had so many more issues I read on here it scared me away .
Moto111 is online now  
post #5360 of 5360 Old Today, 10:03 AM
AVS Special Member
 
tubetwister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Sacramento delta N. Cal. usa
Posts: 1,913
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 123 Post(s)
Liked: 270
Moto 111 wrote ,
"I've actually read every post on vizio on this forum and I have read more positive things about it then negative . "

re tubetwister

maybe newbie Vizio owners don't know better ☺☺

.
Cnet likes the 70" Sony quite a bit . Vizio might be fine though if you are willing to take a chance on one long term cheaper also

FWIW I have a 2013 42 " LG in the stable here (6 sets) pretty good set no issues has IPS panel good view angle
if you edit you might want the darker blacks of a VA type TV panel at least as far as TV panels on PC go .

The Soviet people feared the KGB was watching them through their TV's ........or listening to them through their radios, so they kept them turned off often when they wanted privacy .

Now the NSA/ DHS are in fact watching us with our computers cell phones surveillance cameras drones,satellites etc !
...

Last edited by tubetwister; Today at 10:16 AM.
tubetwister is online now  
Reply LCD Flat Panel Displays

Tags
Lcd Hdtv , Samsung 55 Inch Led Hdtv Un55b8500 , Samsung Un55b8000 55 Inch 1080p 240 Hz Led Hdtv , Lg 55lh40 55 Inch Lcd Hdtv , Toshiba , Cables Interconnects
Gear in this thread

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off