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post #10081 of 10376 Old 12-29-2016, 10:51 AM
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I have a 49" KS8000 - works great, love it, but damn it is sooooo small. I want to return it and go larger. Unfortunately I cannot afford a KS8000 65".

What's going to get me the closest picture quality for less money?

I have found a return/open-box special on a Sony XBR930D - looking at the ratings they are pretty close it seems, and the Sony a small edge on movies (most of what I do is watch movies either from Blu Ray or from Amazon/Vudo).

It's actually $50 less money than the return KS8000 too, and I'd have 65".

I know I can spend less on an M Series this year or P series last year Vizio models, but everything I read they are not up to par with the KS8000 or the XBR930D.

Any redflags or this a good alternative? Advice?
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post #10082 of 10376 Old 12-29-2016, 12:22 PM
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I'm also considering the Sony x930d (exchanging and LG OLED B6 for the x930d because of motion issues on the OLED), but someone recently mentioned as issue with 'purple tint on objects in motion' on the x930d. There is a thread about it on the official Sony forums. May be a deal breaker.... Doesn't seem to affect all sets though... Nothing is ever easy. Seems like every TV has one or two major issues! :-)

I just don't want to get "stuck" with a set at the end of the "model year" with an issue that never gets fixed..

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post #10083 of 10376 Old 12-29-2016, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krandor View Post
Thanks for the input. Was looking at the KS8000 as well, but the 60" seems to be running around $2000 right now at amazon and best buy which is a little more then I was wanting to spend. Looks like there have been some deals on it in the past but nothing right now that I can find. I'm not in a huge rush so may see if there is any price drop on the KS8000 after CES.

Though for some odd reason on amazon the 65" is actually cheaper then the 60".
65" KS8000 = $1,797.99 ( Cheap for what it is ) & FREE Shipping today at Amazon and its plausinle the 65"may have a better Samsung Panel .60" may be a Sharp MVA panel and they like to push red and maybe other issues like more clouding and light bleed I stay awyawe from 60" LCD that are mostly Sharp MVA panels

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post #10084 of 10376 Old 12-29-2016, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtrosky View Post
I just don't want to get "stuck" with a set at the end of the "model year" with an issue that never gets fixed..

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Sony is still supporting the 2015 X850C albeit not always timely

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post #10085 of 10376 Old 12-29-2016, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by synccoil View Post
65" KS8000 = $1,797.99 ( Cheap for what it is ) & FREE Shipping today at Amazon and its plausinle the 65"may have a better Samsung Panel .60" may be a Sharp MVA panel and they like to push red and maybe other issues like more clouding and light bleed I stay awyawe from 60" LCD that are mostly Sharp MVA panels
So how can I tell if the 60" is the Sharp MVA panel or not?

Sounds like I might need to get out a tape measure and see if I can get a 65" to fit in the space I have though would depend on how much of a bezel is around the screen as well.

Appreciate the info... definitely gives me stuff to think about.
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post #10086 of 10376 Old 12-29-2016, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by VA_DaveB View Post
Both fit all your uses. But, they are quite different:

Samsung UN75JU7100FXZA - VA panel so deep blacks, but not very bright, narrow viewing angle, mediocre local dimming, 2015 model with poor HDR. Best in a dark room with a narrow viewing angle (under 20 degrees to either side).

Sony XBR75X850D - IPS panel so weak blacks, fairly bright, wide viewing angle, no local dimming, so OK but not great HDR. Best in a bright room with wide viewing angles (up tp 35 degrees to either side).
Well leaning towards the Sony. Anything else I am missing? 75" less than $3000
Debating if I should wait till CES announcements next week. Although, I doubt the older sets will be discounted right away.
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post #10087 of 10376 Old 12-29-2016, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Krandor View Post
So how can I tell if the 60" is the Sharp MVA panel or not?

Sounds like I might need to get out a tape measure and see if I can get a 65" to fit in the space I have though would depend on how much of a bezel is around the screen as well.

Appreciate the info... definitely gives me stuff to think about.
*Large Sammy SPVA panels are 65-75" and mostly Sharp at 60" in Samsung TV and most 60" TV are Sharp MVA rubbish albiet they ain't bad and still 10 bit VA panels but most of the cognoscenti prefer 10 bit wide color gamut Samsung LCD panels like whats in my Sony X850C , 50 inch is never Samsung mostly 60Hz rubbish below 65" in some brands

panel code on the box end or also maybe back of TV label with a Samsung, 2 links among many ,Google "Samsung panel codes "

AVS

Samsung Panel Version Thread

Other:
https://forum.samygo.tv/viewtopic.php?t=10323

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post #10088 of 10376 Old 12-29-2016, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by pwdump View Post
Well leaning towards the Sony. Anything else I am missing? 75" less than $3000
Debating if I should wait till CES announcements next week. Although, I doubt the older sets will be discounted right away.
Maybe find an arguably better 2015 Sony X850C with a Samsung SPVA panel if it fits your uses outside of daylight/lights on wide seating IPS panel in the X850C but the X850C is just as bright for daylight /HDR anyway since the Oct firmware update


Quote:
"The Sony X850D is a good 4k LED TV for a living room. Its picture quality in a darker room isn't as good as last year's model, the X850C
Because of its low contrast, the Sony X850D won't look its best when playing dark scenes in a dark room. As soon as you have some lights on, though, the X850D looks sharp, with decent color.
http://ca.rtings.com/tv/reviews/sony/x850d

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post #10089 of 10376 Old 12-29-2016, 04:29 PM
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Those constantly bashing the 2016 Vizio P-Series sets that have never seen one in person or done enough research on them really need to quit giving advice based on 'fan-boydom' of other sets. Vizio is just as big a manufacturer as any other brand and based on their current R&D and investments... they are going to be giving 'big name' sets like OLED a run for their money in the years to follow. Funny that DolbyVision picked Vizio and Cal Man to provide calibration techniques for their P-Series. The sets now do both DolbyVision and HDR100 and they are on back order from Vizio, so I guess 'somebody' is buying these 'mediocre/low tier' TV's.

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post #10090 of 10376 Old 12-29-2016, 11:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Bamadawg_63 View Post
Those constantly bashing the 2016 Vizio P-Series sets that have never seen one in person or done enough research on them really need to quit giving advice based on 'fan-boydom' of other sets. Vizio is just as big a manufacturer as any other brand and based on their current R&D and investments... they are going to be giving 'big name' sets like OLED a run for their money in the years to follow. Funny that DolbyVision picked Vizio and Cal Man to provide calibration techniques for their P-Series. The sets now do both DolbyVision and HDR100 and they are on back order from Vizio, so I guess 'somebody' is buying these 'mediocre/low tier' TV's.
Note this is a business case study and not a rant .....,that is what I do and I'm good at it and its all in the details and facts


Not to diminish Scott's well regraded considerable reviewing, analytical ,expertise and technical skills but ...Ever wonder about a reviewers visual acuity when they ware glasses that may have some coatings and reflective properties that maybe beyond fine detail and the normal aging process can possibly significantly affect color and depth perception or no ? .....,just a detail and unproven hypothesis to consider or not and nothing beyond that .............., But again thats what I do .

FWIW I'm over 60 and wear 3.50 reading glasses so I know the pros and cons and pitfalls but not on or needed when I'm watching 55 or 64 inch up to 4K HDR eye candy or anthing on these first 2 TV 's in my Sig. and I don't watch the others anyway

]
Quote:
Those constantly bashing the 2016 Vizio P-Series sets that have never seen one in person or done enough research on them really need to quit giving advice based on 'fan-boydom' of other sets.
I'm a SonyXBR HDR/SDR LCD picture and longstanding legendary Sony XBR build quality fan and 2nd legitimately competitive Samsung SUHD LCD fanboy outside of Samsung 64f8500 plasma .

I hold LG HDR OLED in very high regard but I am more than willing to point out the shortcomings of any Sony or Samsung TV like I have done with the 2016 Sony X850D IPS panel TV's and the Samsung KU 7000 and their attributes outside of the shortcomings but TBH those positives ain't much on the KU 7000 or Vizio P

My 2015 Sony XBR 850C 4K HDR ready wide color gamut TV is generally regarded as best in class then and now and even for HDR and above any Vizio product to the cognoscenti .

OTOH IMO the Samsung KS 8000 LCD is a better TV in many ways and its HDR 1000 spec. too

I try to stay out of the low budget Vizio type owners threads IMO nothing interesting to see there and they may tend to be low tech at times anyway . I just don't see them as enthusiast products and never saw one that rang my bell including all the 2016 products YMMV

.
Quote:
Vizio is just as big a manufacturer as any other brand
Keep in mnd Vizio doesen't make any TV's or anything they re sell their OD (designs ) made by any number of maybe OK and maybe not so hot Asian based contract manufactures with who knows what parts and grade of panels inside .

That said Vizio moves a phatt lot of product in the states but not at global scale or in the much higher broad market sales potential emerging nations like the Global big three.i.e.,

Sony TV subsidiary ,Samsung electronics and LG TV and electronics .

Quote:
P-Series. The sets now do both Dolby Vision and HDR100 and they are on back order from Vizio, so I guess 'somebody' is buying these 'mediocre/low tier' TV's.
They sell a lot of Oscar Meyer and Ball Park Frank hot dogs but I'll take a Genuine Caspers or Nathan's dog anytime .


The Vizio TV back order can just as well be Q4 seasonal end of product life cycle it happens to Sony and Samsung every year on popular models.

OTOH Vizio running out of product this soon is more likely poor production forecasting and supply chain/logistics management than anything else ,there is plenty of contract mfr. like Vizio uses excess production capacity out there .

Vizio has a history of poor production forecasting and maybe logistics wholly to thier detriment. but they are a and have been a privately held company so I don't dwell on thier operations ther are bigger fish to fry .


Quote:
The sets now do both Dolby Vision and HDR100
While thats all good HDR is a moving target , that is not lost on the big three as are not the Dolby royalties but HDR 10 is the ATSC 3.0 terrestrial broadcast standard ,dominant Retail TV receiver format and a retail Dolby Vision media layer .

You should know what follows all that until we get the 2 active HDR formats and the data pipes for it in the broad market



Quote:
Funny that Dolby Vision picked Vizio and Cal Man to provide calibration techniques for their P-Series
Note Sony does not have or ever need CMS deep color calibration for years like the cal man business beyond a few trivial white balance tweaks usually provided for. They are simply the best LCD color in the business and Samsung is right behind and Pannys in the mix .

The tier one brands handled out the box color accuracy well while Vizio is behind without a pro calibration and even behind then ....nobody making LCD TV can beat the usual superlative Sony LCD color it was like that on CRT also I had 4 of them and a 2005 55" Sony Grand Wega 3 chip slim DLP

Vizio likely doesn't have the resources for all that at today's levels . Cal Man and Dolby Vision don't work for free and The big three tier one brands and Panasonic can do all that better in house without royalties anyway ,not to mention Vizio color management (CMS ) functions have often been broken in thier TV's just like thier sub par video and color processing and up-scaling anyway but it all together ain't bad for what they are

Vizio 50" ,55" and 60" 4K TV's may still have rubbish 50 Hz panels .

Quote:
based on their current R&D and investments... they are going to be giving 'big name' sets like OLED a run for their money in the years to follow.
Vizio does not innovate at the scale of the big three or much at all .

Vizio does not have any genuine HD 1000 spec. product like the big three and Panasonic .

Vizio will never be a threat to LG OLED or upper middle to premium Sony or Samsung pictures only in your wildest dreams at this point ,they've never executed a genuine premium product beyond the over hyped stillborn reference rubbish .

Premium is just not Vizio today but they have a place

Vizio sells a lot of value market product that are often regarded as a good value for what you pay but they ain't Sony's ,LG or Samsung by a country mile '

Cheap FALD TV are not re invented wheels either but some folks like them I do not .

They over hype thier products but in all fairness so do the big three but not so bad..

.

Vizio HDR ready P model wide color gamuts are less than HDR spec and less than lumens than HDR 1000 spec.
but so are Some Sony and maybe one SUHD Samsung at least on the lumens but still good wide color gamut .


Panasonic premium TV are at a high quality also but a lower unit count

Samsung Display and LGD sibling companies are major global panel makers and make highly regarded panels for TV's and LCD & and AMOLED & LG OLED TV technologies used from cell phones to TV's to medical imaging to jumbo jets . Sony is the image sensor place to go .

Sony and Panasonic have the best video and color processing for retail and professional color grading monitors like Sony Trimasters and the Sony ZD9 best retail LCD TV's on the planet followed by Samsung then LG.
and LG OLED is wholly well regarded as some of the best retail TV's on the planet

Vizio does not play in this sandbox at all and probably never will its the big leagues well beyond engineering and reselling conventional but not bad Vizio OD products.


Sony Digital camera chassis and image sensors are what's inside of the finest digital cimematic cameras on the planet.

Sony ZD9 is the baddest LCD *real FALD TV on the planet

Samsung isn't far behind Sony and may equal or surpass some of the ZD9 attributes soon video /color processing however would be a stretch for anybody to surpass Sony they make and grade everything from movie and TV and music productions ,the stuff they make that with and the TV's media players media and so on and so on .

Vizio has been wholly sold to a large PRC (Chinese) content selling (maybe media ) and cell phone company or something like that so we do not know the long term business plans and mission statement for Vizio which are wholly obvious at the big three .

The big three teir one brands are Samsung ,Sony and LG usually with the products and support one would expect from a tier one global brand .

Details and facts .

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post #10091 of 10376 Old 12-30-2016, 01:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Bamadawg_63 View Post
Those constantly bashing the 2016 Vizio P-Series sets that have never seen one in person or done enough research on them really need to quit giving advice based on 'fan-boydom' of other sets. Vizio is just as big a manufacturer as any other brand and based on their current R&D and investments... they are going to be giving 'big name' sets like OLED a run for their money in the years to follow. Funny that DolbyVision picked Vizio and Cal Man to provide calibration techniques for their P-Series. The sets now do both DolbyVision and HDR100 and they are on back order from Vizio, so I guess 'somebody' is buying these 'mediocre/low tier' TV's.

https://youtu.be/CUddqxrRsOc
Well, that much is true - I can't really look at them anyway, because they are never in stock so apparently they fly off the shelves. But I am sorry for the inflammatory comment that the Vizio weren't up to par with the top shelf LEDs. As I said, it was just my impression based upon reviews I have read - and again, that's the problem with cork sniffing to begin with.

FWIW - I have my new set, and it's on the wall already, after much grunting, sweating bullets, cutting holes in the wall to push cables down, mounting the iron, etc. It's a couple years old model they had in the back of the store - a Sony XBR950B. The picture just looked dynamite to my pedestrian eyes, at least on blu ray input (the apps looked like garbage imho, but I am sure it's adjustment). I got a deal on it, actually less than my returned KS8000, so i am happy, I have my 65". It has the wrong remote, looking online, which is a PITA. And a missing one-touch thingy, and of course no manuals, but I did buy a 3 year warranty extension on it, so hopefully I will be okay.

I just watched avatar and I gotta say this tv gives my plasma a run for the money. It's pretty nice.

Good night!
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post #10092 of 10376 Old 12-30-2016, 02:57 AM
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Well, that much is true - I can't really look at them anyway, because they are never in stock so apparently they fly off the shelves. But I am sorry for the inflammatory comment that the Vizio weren't up to par with the top shelf LEDs. As I said, it was just my impression based upon reviews I have read - and again, that's the problem with cork sniffing to begin with.

FWIW - I have my new set, and it's on the wall already, after much grunting, sweating bullets, cutting holes in the wall to push cables down, mounting the iron, etc. It's a couple years old model they had in the back of the store - a Sony XBR950B. The picture just looked dynamite to my pedestrian eyes, at least on blu ray input (the apps looked like garbage imho, but I am sure it's adjustment). I got a deal on it, actually less than my returned KS8000, so i am happy, I have my 65". It has the wrong remote, looking online, which is a PITA. And a missing one-touch thingy, and of course no manuals, but I did buy a 3 year warranty extension on it, so hopefully I will be okay.

I just watched avatar and I gotta say this tv gives my plasma a run for the money. It's pretty nice.

Good night!
I looked at that 950B in 2013 and decided the Samsung 64f8500 I bought was a better TV for my uses and I liked the PDP picture better .


I stepped back a few ft and figured Sony was playing over saturated demo loops on that anyway and I wasn't going to be getting all that or 4K on TV content . It was too much money for the 950B then anyway and never going to happen

How does it compere to the KS 8000? . was it size upgrade from the Samsung ?

I'm glad you like it but will it do HDR 10 or HDMI 2.0a and HDCP 2.0 like my 2015 X850C . I thought folks were saying nada on all that not the right HDMI chips or something and thats one reason why I held out for the 4K X850C and definitely along with the prices .


The X850C is real decent *for what it is* and now we have to wait for active adaptive display meta data 12 bit HDR provably 2000 NITS on something way cheaper than a Sony ZD9 and another HDMI increment it never ends like NTSC 480i color TV did .

~ 5 days after I bought the X850C I had it put up on full motion wall mount in the man cave office here next to the PC office desk by the TV service provider install services , what it was a tech was out replacing a faulty STB for the X850C and I mentioned about getting a mount and doing it DIY .

I have tools and skill for all that .even though TBH I was looking at like an unpleasant chore but going to do it in a few days .

He laid out a swinging package deal special they had for all that and it was very reasonable and painless and done fast and well by an installer that does that kind of stuff they have that showed up the next day and not a service tech so it's all a good outcome .


I would think the KS 8000 would be a better HDR 1000 set and maybe SDR than the 950B or no ?

The specs on the 900B just don't ring my bell today but the 1080p Samsung 64 f8500 is pedestrian spec. by today standards also but not the picture so maybe that FALD 950B is like all that out of the store . I never heard anyone complain about them thats for sure and any LCD that gives a plasma a run for the money must be very good anyway .


IMO Vizio are between rubbish and pedestrian OK but not my usual Sony XBR style or performance YMMV I've seen them all and meh but probably a decent value play ....but maybe not fanboy material

somebody always has something better than what I'm watching anyway . I'm just more about posting facts ,questions a, technical stuff I can half way understand and BS like all this instead .

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post #10093 of 10376 Old 12-30-2016, 06:13 AM
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synccoil -

If you notice in all your posts... you either tell people to get a 2015 TV that is no longer in production or you recommend a nearly $10K Sony TV. You seem to fail to mention that most all of Sony's LCD lineup below that ZF are being sent back in droves because of ****ty performance. I understand the KS8000 is a popular model this year but you can't say that it is without bad reviews either. Unless you lucky enuff to plunk down the cash for Reference Quality TVs or OLED technology... the absence of plasma has left us with a mediocre format and technology to work with. I was merely pointing out that Vizio seems to be trying to capture a large part of the LCD market by producing (or having produced) some very nice/affordable consumer TV sets. I could care less if you ever own one. That 850C you keep touting should not even be a 'recommendation'. If your 'Company' that you love can not keep producing consumer level quality without having to step up to a $10K set from year to year... you really should rethink your loyalty IMHO.

A Side Note: The Vizio P-Series Owner Thread having close to 37,500 posts can't be a coincidence. That many people talking about a crappy company and their products? That can't be correct

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post #10094 of 10376 Old 12-30-2016, 06:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Bamadawg_63 View Post
A Side Note: The Vizio P-Series Owner Thread having close to 37,500 posts can't be a coincidence. That many people talking about a crappy company and their products? That can't be correct
The reason that there are so many posts in the P-series thread is because of all of the issues people are having with it (and the M-Series, which I briefly owned before returning for a refund). The 2016 Vizios are just a mess.

It's almost 2017 and Vizio still hasn't got the firmware right on their 2016 sets. Yes, they release firmware often - and yes, they have a CTO participating in the threads, but again, it's only because Vizio is still trying to get the firmware for their 2016 sets to be fully-functional. The 2016 Vizios were released WAY before they were ready - and the users are basically doing their beta testing for them - still.

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post #10095 of 10376 Old 12-30-2016, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by synccoil View Post
*Large Sammy SPVA panels are 65-75" and mostly Sharp at 60" in Samsung TV and most 60" TV are Sharp MVA rubbish albiet they ain't bad and still 10 bit VA panels but most of the cognoscenti prefer 10 bit wide color gamut Samsung LCD panels like whats in my Sony X850C , 50 inch is never Samsung mostly 60Hz rubbish below 65" in some brands

panel code on the box end or also maybe back of TV label with a Samsung, 2 links among many ,Google "Samsung panel codes "
Thanks very much for the info. So based on this, I think I need to get out my tape measure and see if I can make a 65" fit. I think I can because my current Panasonic Plasma has about a 2 inch bezel on each side and the samsung doesn't look like it has much of a bezel at all so that may make the difference.
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post #10096 of 10376 Old 12-30-2016, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by jtrosky View Post
The reason that there are so many posts in the P-series thread is because of all of the issues people are having with it (and the M-Series, which I briefly owned before returning for a refund). The 2016 Vizios are just a mess.

It's almost 2017 and Vizio still hasn't got the firmware right on their 2016 sets. Yes, they release firmware often - and yes, they have a CTO participating in the threads, but again, it's only because Vizio is still trying to get the firmware for their 2016 sets to be fully-functional. The 2016 Vizios were released WAY before they were ready - and the users are basically doing their beta testing for them - still.

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I always thought Vizio were basically above Chang Sang , Seiki and Westinghouse digital ....and so on but product from rubbish ranging up to a cheap edible ball park frank and not close to a Nathans Kosher dog or a big three Sony ,Samsung or LG in class product

I never saw one I would buy as recently as 2016 .... I left the bloody ball park frank TV here to a low spec. LG LCD

Vizio cant even do plausible DCI HDR color by the numbers or HDR 1000 yet and they obviously don't have any plausible quality control or field reliability efforts ,

Vizio does not make TV's they just re sell thier offshore contract production OD product and don't have and probably never will have deep R&D despite the new deeper pocket PRC ownership like the big three ,Sony ,Samsung or LG or even the well regarded Pioneer TV brand

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post #10097 of 10376 Old 12-30-2016, 09:10 PM
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I'l be honest, I have a 55" Vizio 1080p Razor set from about 2012 or so and I love that TV! It actually has a really good picture for what it is and has been extremely reliable. I paid $800 for it at the time and that TV has been on for almost 4 years straight (anywhere between 18 and 24 hours a day!). It's now moved up to the bedroom, but it has been a fantastic TV.

But the 2016 M-Series that I bought (because the old Vizio is so good - again, for what it is) was not so great. :-) Will probably stay away from Vizio from now on. Looking at a Sony x930d now. I actually bought a 65" LG OLED, but I really dislike the motion processing on it, so I'm probably going to return it for the Sony.

I'm really not picky about my TVs, but man, I'm having a hard time finding a good 4k set as a replacement for that old Vizio 1080p set! :-)

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post #10098 of 10376 Old 12-31-2016, 12:39 AM
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Originally Posted by jtrosky View Post
I'l be honest, I have a 55" Vizio 1080p Razor set from about 2012 or so and I love that TV! It actually has a really good picture for what it is and has been extremely reliable. I paid $800 for it at the time and that TV has been on for almost 4 years straight (anywhere between 18 and 24 hours a day!). It's now moved up to the bedroom, but it has been a fantastic TV.

But the 2016 M-Series that I bought (because the old Vizio is so good - again, for what it is) was not so great. :-) Will probably stay away from Vizio from now on. Looking at a Sony x930d now. I actually bought a 65" LG OLED, but I really dislike the motion processing on it, so I'm probably going to return it for the Sony.


I'm really not picky about my TVs, but man, I'm having a hard time finding a good 4k set as a replacement for that old Vizio 1080p set! :-)

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A lot of that 1080p CCFL product (if that is what you have ) is plausibly better and more dependable than broad market value product LED SDR TV s like the current Vizio M and so on .

X930D is stonking good LED and generally regarded as the best LCD this side of a 65" Sony ZD9 Nit Monster FALD bomb


CCFL 'LCD often makes better color and primarys and bright highlights and so on and can often get brighter than SDR LED all around without the color spectrum limitation of an 8 bit SDR LED panel spectrum vis a vis an LED array or edge lamp LED module vs a CCFL panel .

Samsung LED / LCD Q dots etc. ,LGD OLED glass and Sony LED/LCD Triluminous HDR all gave us wonderful 10 bit color far above 8 bits but for more money . ........,You will like that X930D like that like my same color spectrum but deeper black 2015 4K HDR Sony XBR X850C

Sony screws the pooch on 2016 X850D with an IPS panel but kept the VA panels for the big dogs like X930C and so on

I've seen Dynex ,Toshiba and Sony CCFL LCD I owned new recently & still have one with the same exact Samsung 8 bit + frc very good SPVA CCFL panel in all three sets here dating from 2011-and maybe 2012 .

Many 2012-2014 or so ~$500.00 and well beyond that LCD /LED edge and rear lit were horrid for clouding ,color banding ,light bleed DSE and so on .

Some back and edge lit LED were 6 bit +_ frc dither to 8 bits and couldn't make accurate color on thier best day.

I have 6 bit +_ frc Samsung panel a 2013 rear LED Sony Bravia like all that color wise , it wasn't in here long before it went to another room but it still looks better than a brand new Vizio SDR LED

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post #10099 of 10376 Old 12-31-2016, 09:06 PM
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I don't understand the bashing my choice of the 950b. It's a great television, and now that it's setup right it has phenomenal performance. No HDR, but I couldn't care less. I don't have it on my Panasonic plasma, and that blows away all the cheap LED panels I've seen that have it anyway, including my KS8000 I returned.

I went from that KS8000 with HDR to this X950B without it, and for the 99.9% of viewing which is non HDR the set delivers the goods. When I watch the Amazon 4K HDR Coral Reef movie it now doesn't say it has HDR, just UHD. And it looks better on this set. Go figure!

I figure all this HD stuff is still up in the air. I won't be investing again in a panel until it's sorted out on OLED with all the standards, which will by then be 2000 or less for the 70" panel.

Until then I can live without HDR, especially pocketing the money difference between the more expensive 2016 KS8000 and the 2014 X950B (yes, they are dirt cheap now, go looking for one). So I pocketed the difference.

I am set until the standards and OLED pricing all line up.

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post #10100 of 10376 Old 12-31-2016, 09:39 PM
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By the way, just want to stress again:

The XBR65x950b is 65"

The Samsung KS8000 I traded in was 49"

For the $1,000 or less budget I had, I don't see how I could do any better.
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post #10101 of 10376 Old 12-31-2016, 10:09 PM
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Mike Corrieri I figure all this HD stuff is still up in the air. I won't be investing again in a panel until it's sorted out on OLED with all the standards, which will by then be 2000 or less for the 70" panel.
HDTV (HD) standards were settled by the ITU and FCC mandates and offshore and so on long ago albiet HDR vis a vis TV Dolby Vision vs and HDR-10 and later active HDR formats and new HDMI standards not available yet may be a moving target

I may hold onto this decent wide color gamut 2015 Sony Triliminous X1 Reality Pro XBR X850C 4K HDR 10 TV and see how it all shakes out before another upgrade in here .

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Mike Corrieri
I don't understand the bashing my choice of the 950b. It's a great television,




Nobnody is bashing your choice or your SDR XBR X950B or any discount you may have receieved on the dated X950B or my arguably better and dated behind the 4K and 4K HDR curve 1080p Samung 64f8500 Plasma
they are both exclent TV's but behind the HDR curve and the 65X950B never justified its lofty UPP price against a decent plasma and more specifically the Samsung 64f8500 anyway re: Value electronics high end TV shootout -2014-2013 and my opinion

The only questions I asked and question you may inadvertently have answered is that it is not HDR and HDMI 2.0a updatable that further did not justify it's UPP retail price by 2014 -2015 vis a vis at least a 2015 Sony XBR X850C Sony outside of any substantial age related product discounts you may have received .


I'm sure rhetorically speaking they almost had to give it away given its age and unremarkable by 2015 and now SDR spec. outside of FALD , Triluninous and so on and it may have been a real good 4K SDR FALD score for your uses

I wanted specifically wide color gamut and 4K (two things you have) which of course by 2015 implies HDR anyway

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post #10102 of 10376 Old 12-31-2016, 11:07 PM
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Well leaning towards the Sony. Anything else I am missing? 75" less than $3000
Debating if I should wait till CES announcements next week. Although, I doubt the older sets will be discounted right away.
good luck getting a poopular Sony or Samsung by late Jan/early Feb.

Caveat : Tier one brand popular & thier good TV's often run out in the store and on line mid Fan. and early Feb .and usually do not get replenished before the new year models arrive in Mar- April .

Been there in 2013 with a 1080p Sony Bravia I wanted after I saw it at BB a short while before then , that is now in another room .

One of my Sony ears kindly was able direct me to an out of retail sales channel purchase at a substantial discount.

Ofc. with the individual knowing I'm a long time Sony XBR TV and premium Sony Sound ES owner and enthusiast and serial upgrader since 1994 and maybe (I have ) influence some purchasers to Sony now and then probably did not hurt that outcome anyway .

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post #10103 of 10376 Old 12-31-2016, 11:47 PM
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Originally Posted by jtrosky View Post
thThe reason that there are so many posts in the p-series thread is because of all of the issues people are having with it (and the m-series, which i briefly owned before returning for a refund). The 2016 vizios are just a mess.

it's almost 2017 and vizio still hasn't got the firmware right on their 2016 sets. Yes, they release firmware often - and yes, they have a cto participating in the threads, but again, it's only because vizio is still trying to get the firmware for their 2016 sets to be fully-functional. The 2016 vizios were released way before they were ready - and the users are basically doing their beta testing for them - still.

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ditto

I figure there are the big three Tier one Sony Samsung,LG Trifecta TV brands and Panasonic and TV Appliances like Insignia ( Best Buy OD Hisense ) Sharp (Best Buy OD Hisense or just broad market Hisense Sharp) ,Hisense, Toshiba ( Compal Toshiba brand licence ) , Vizio (top of the rubbish heap [/when they work , TCL ,Seiki, Chang Hong ,Funi Emerson/N.A. Funai Phillips,/Funai Polarid/ Funi Sanyo/ Westinghouse Digital ,Funai Kodak /Funai Magnavox and so on (rubbish )

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post #10104 of 10376 Old 01-01-2017, 12:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Bamadawg_63 View Post
synccoil -

If you notice in all your posts... you either tell people to get a 2015 TV that is no longer in production or you recommend a nearly $10K Sony TV. You seem to fail to mention that most all of Sony's LCD lineup below that ZF are being sent back in droves because of ****ty performance. I understand the KS8000 is a popular model this year but you can't say that it is without bad reviews either. Unless you lucky enuff to plunk down the cash for Reference Quality TVs or OLED technology... the absence of plasma has left us with a mediocre format and technology to work with. I was merely pointing out that Vizio seems to be trying to capture a large part of the LCD market by producing (or having produced) some very nice/affordable consumer TV sets. I could care less if you ever own one. That 850C you keep touting should not even be a 'recommendation'. If your 'Company' that you love can not keep producing consumer level quality without having to step up to a $10K set from year to year... you really should rethink your loyalty IMHO.

A Side Note: The Vizio P-Series Owner Thread having close to 37,500 posts can't be a coincidence. That many people talking about a crappy company and their products? That can't be correct
================================================== ==================

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Bamadawg_63

If you notice in all your posts...you either tell people to get a 2015 TV that is no longer in production
lol....Nothing wrong with buying last years arguably better model if you can find one . I bought mine in Q4 2015 at Best Buy and its better than the 2016 model .

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Bamadawg_63
Or you recommend a nearly $10K Sony TV.
Lets stick to the facts ,

Sony Z9D baddest 65" LCD NIT/FALD Monster on the planet is $5,499.99
and the top of the range Samsung LCD and LG HDR OLED are competitive performance wise with all that anyway.

Product wise....Vizio is not even in kiddie sand boxes or kiddie pools at the big three or Panasonic .

LOL....I reccomend what I own, have owned ,what I have seen and or what I belive may may be appropriate or a plausible upgrade based on my qualified opinions [citations]and facts and it may be any of the tier one brands outside of Vizio and the other rubbish .

I leave the superb LG HDR OLED to the LG OLED cognoscenti that forgot more than I know about all that.

Quote:
Bamadawg_63
A Side Note: The Vizio P-Series Owner Thread having close to 37,500 posts can't be a coincidence. That many people talking about a crappy company and their products? That can't be correct

LOL...Lots of folks rotating in and out about systemic Vizio problems with all that rubbish driving up the post numbers or just giving up on the rubbish and getting something better or not.

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Bamadawg_63
You seem to fail to mention that most all of Sony's LCD lineup below that ZF are being sent back in droves because of ****ty performance
LOL It's not ZF they make automobile transmissions and trans axles all over the world for some of the finest and broad market automobiles .

Quote:
Bamadawg_63
You seem to fail to mention that most all of Sony's LCD lineup below that ZF are being sent back in droves because of ****ty performance
LOL ...No you are not repeating I deliberately split up your unsupportable conflating arguments.

The Only Sony like that was the too trendy thin for LCD 2015 Sony X900C/X910C rubbish ,yes they got a lot if that rubbish back but that's not wholly comparable to the systemic Vizio rubbish numbers

LOL ........ nobody here needs to defend Sony,Samsung ,LG ,LG OLED or Panasonic (or the legendary Panasonic and Pioneer Kuro legacy's ) or why they bought them,or buy them instead of the Vizio rubbish and so on .


LOL...Nobody here needs to defend legendary Sony XBR and Sony Sound ES build quality,brand status or performance or the Sony premium ,broad market and enthusiast brand value or the Sony pro legacy and brand values or the $57,000.00 Sony Pro brand - Sony RBG OLED 55" Sony Trimasters used for content production,broadcast grading and content grading .

Once again ,

I figure there are the big three Tier one Sony Samsung,LG Trifecta TV brands and Panasonic and TV Appliances like Insignia ( Best Buy OD Hisense ) Sharp (Best Buy OD Hisense or just broad market Hisense Sharp) ,Hisense, Toshiba ( Compal Toshiba brand licence ) , Vizio (top of the rubbish heap [/when they work , TCL ,Seiki, Chang Hong ,Funi Emerson/N.A. Funai Phillips,/Funai Polarid/ Funi Sanyo/ Westinghouse Digital ,Funai Kodak /Funai Magnavox and so on (rubbish )

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post #10105 of 10376 Old 01-01-2017, 09:25 AM
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starting to look for new set

Well, my Sharp 70 inch LE735U is starting to have some problems. While watching, the pic goes out and the triangular light at the bottom front blinks. I have learned how to reset it, hold the power, channel up volume down buttons then pulling the plug out, back in, then releasing all three buttons. Pic is still great but has been going out several times a month now so time to start looking. We want at least a 70 but not more than a 75 inch set. Prefer a back lit set but not required. What are the best options for both back and edge lit 4K sets???
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post #10106 of 10376 Old 01-01-2017, 01:36 PM
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Well, my Sharp 70 inch LE735U is starting to have some problems. While watching, the pic goes out and the triangular light at the bottom front blinks. I have learned how to reset it, hold the power, channel up volume down buttons then pulling the plug out, back in, then releasing all three buttons. Pic is still great but has been going out several times a month now so time to start looking. We want at least a 70 but not more than a 75 inch set. Prefer a back lit set but not required. What are the best options for both back and edge lit 4K sets???
The big three plus one top quality and most advanced Tier one TV Brands in the industry are Sony Bravia , Sony XBR, Samsung, LG LCD ,LG OLED and at no. 4 but near or same level premium Panasonic models

I like Sony & Samsung HDR LCD and LG HDR OLED

I have 2 Sonys ( one 2013 1080p Sony Bravia LED/LCD , One 2015 4K HDR Sony XBR X850C , (both Samsung panels ) ,2013 1080p 64f8500 Samsung Plasma , 2013 1080p LG LED/LCD (LGD IPS panel ) and a 2012 Insignia 40" TV appliance with the exact same 40" 1080p CCFL /LCD Samung SPVA 8 bit +frc panel Sony Bravia used in 2012

Maybe Put some decent Nichicon , Rubycon or Panasonic low ESR electrolytic 105° C low ESR capacitors ( not the Radio shack 85°C rubbish) on the Sharp PSU board , it sounds like they are drifting and sagging the DC voltage rails before they fail completely and maybe fry something else on the board maybe $20.00 < in parts or find a used or new salvage PSU board at shop jimmy .com or on pay bay or send the board to shopjimmy.com repair (less than $100.00 usually ) if you would like to DIY repair it regardless if you get a new TV or not .

Lots of instructional not hard to do videos on the tube and shop jimmy.com.

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TV's Samsung PN64f8500 PDP, 2 -5.1 speaks ,2 Sony ES AVR all total |MY hideout : Sony 4K HDR XBR X850C,2016.HP 4K core i5 PC, plausible 5.1, Sources D*TV HR54 and room clients ,OTA ,Roku,TV Android 6.0.1 ,all the usuall other stuff up to 4K HDR IPTV and hires media hdd eye candy ,Custom core i7 Game /drive sim PC & G27 wheel ,reference quality 2.1 music > PC Game /Music room. 3 LG,Sony LED TV

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post #10107 of 10376 Old 01-01-2017, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by paul416 View Post
Well, my Sharp 70 inch LE735U is starting to have some problems. While watching, the pic goes out and the triangular light at the bottom front blinks. I have learned how to reset it, hold the power, channel up volume down buttons then pulling the plug out, back in, then releasing all three buttons. Pic is still great but has been going out several times a month now so time to start looking. We want at least a 70 but not more than a 75 inch set. Prefer a back lit set but not required. What are the best options for both back and edge lit 4K sets???
Starting at Sony HDR LCD 55X850D to 75X850D very good outside of a dark room or fine with a lamp on in a dark room vis a vis the IPS panel in it vs the other LCD sets listed here with much deeper black VA panels , a better VA panel Sony XBR HDR TV , Samsumg SUHD LCD HDR 1000 spec. Samsung 8000 and up flat screens ,of course LG OLED HDR .

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post #10108 of 10376 Old 01-02-2017, 04:46 AM
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Originally Posted by synccoil View Post
Starting at Sony HDR LCD 55X850D to 75X850D very good outside of a dark room or fine with a lamp on in a dark room vis a vis the IPS panel in it vs the other LCD sets listed here with much deeper black VA panels , a better VA panel Sony XBR HDR TV , Samsumg SUHD LCD HDR 1000 spec. Samsung 8000 and up flat screens ,of course LG OLED HDR .
Maybe I am confused about something, and you can help?

What good does HDR do on non-HDR content? Does it do something else to normal (non-HDR) content that I am missing?

I just don't see very much HDR content at all, only a handful of titles.
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post #10109 of 10376 Old 01-02-2017, 09:11 AM
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Hello all,

I asked a similar question in the main thread area--but maybe it really should have gone here, since it is a "help me choose" question? New here, don't know the board etiquette yet.

Here's my question--hoping to take advantage of upcoming Superbowl sales:

----------------------

I need several TVs to display at an art gallery, I will not be watching regular TV shows on them or hooking them up to the Internet, aside from any set-up requirements.

I need to:

1) Play UHD 4k videos from a USB drive (or Roku with a USB drive, external hard drive, etc)

2) I need to play multiple videos in a row

3) Those videos (in a folder) must then loop when the last video is reached to start again playing the first video so the videos play continuously.

4) I also need the ability to play a single video, looped, where there is no delay when the looping occurs—no “file loading” alert, no significant pause, just seamless looping. It needs to seem like one never-ending video.

I am happy to download and pay for whatever apps might do the trick but the TVs will not be hooked up to the Internet on a regular basis.

I’m aiming at a 48-inch screen or larger. Looking for a selection of TV models that meet my needs at the lowest price.

Any suggestions?

—Darin
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post #10110 of 10376 Old 01-03-2017, 08:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darinbov View Post
Hello all,

I asked a similar question in the main thread area--but maybe it really should have gone here, since it is a "help me choose" question? New here, don't know the board etiquette yet.

Here's my question--hoping to take advantage of upcoming Superbowl sales:

----------------------

I need several TVs to display at an art gallery, I will not be watching regular TV shows on them or hooking them up to the Internet, aside from any set-up requirements.

I need to:

1) Play UHD 4k videos from a USB drive (or Roku with a USB drive, external hard drive, etc)

2) I need to play multiple videos in a row

3) Those videos (in a folder) must then loop when the last video is reached to start again playing the first video so the videos play continuously.

4) I also need the ability to play a single video, looped, where there is no delay when the looping occurs—no “file loading” alert, no significant pause, just seamless looping. It needs to seem like one never-ending video.

I am happy to download and pay for whatever apps might do the trick but the TVs will not be hooked up to the Internet on a regular basis.

I’m aiming at a 48-inch screen or larger. Looking for a selection of TV models that meet my needs at the lowest price.

Any suggestions?

—Darin
Get the biggest half way decent commercial thermal design TV's you can afford ,The big three top quality and most advanced Tier one TV Brands in the industry are Sony Bravia , Sony XBR, Samsung,LG LCD ,LG OLED

[First Choice ]

Same Spec. .LG or 2016 Sony X700D 49" 55" LED 4k 60 Hz bright IPS Panel Direct lit TV Android Sustained 50% Window : 420 cd/m2 NIT The Sonys here have LG panels anyway :
Note Same Sony TV' here are on Sony commercial display side they call them Sony Bravia PRO and charge more for them Same thing for Sony 55" X850D 65" ,75" 85" X850D too" but You Pay: $7,417.49 for 85" and it is VA panel
maybe some software and maybe warranty difference if there is any difference is all can see
can probably download that too TV Android is TV Android

ha ha ha ....like this and my 2015 55X850C :

Sony FWD-55X850D 55"-Class Pro Bravia 4K HDR Ultra HD Display, Digital Signage Monitors, Design, 55", 1080p, Component Composite
Sony FWD‑55X850D 55"‑Class Pro Bravia 4K HDR Ultra HD Display, Digital Signage ...
$1,552.49 - B&H Photo-Video-Audio
Free shippinghttps://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/con...C&A=details&Q=


Virtually same some parts where it counts outside of the lamp modules 105°C thermal design retail 55X850D = $1,098.00 · B&H Photo-Video-Audio ha ha ha
I can wholly attest to the retail X850C thermal design on my severe duty cycle here and I know whats in there


** You dont want LCD VA panels for public venus ** [/B




not my advise for commercial venue :
Tier 2 Insignia ,Toshiba ,Sharp (Hisense Sharp now ) Hisense (they make Insignia too )and all likely wholly acceptable for *HOME* use and probably not as bright and probably VA panels NOT BEST for your use and wide views
VA panel may ~18 ° off axis view thats it ,
IMO I would not contemplate a Vizio for anthing


Note :Tier 2 Insignia ,Toshiba ,Sharp (Hisense Sharp now ) HOME USE>>>>> likely w/o commercial spec, thermal designs re: commercial duty cycles and probably wrong panels as opposed to the Sonys here and some LG > the rest are usually rubbish anyway

I would definitely Recommend a very bright IPS panel LCD pane lTV like I put here or professional displays[/B]s for good view angles and so on and for severe duty cycles or professional display at commercial venu

On Sony above You can put Android Kodoi free open source (no public use royalty or seat licence ) at the Google play store and install it with your PC Easy Peaszy newbie style , at each TV or Andoid Box instead for other TV's and add USB storage or get it from Andoid Free ATPK for non Android TV or Andoid box not on web or so on . KODI pays most 4K codec/ formats up to 4K HDR just fine and more than most media players



Note Anroid** can become unstable and reqire re boots more often than a windows PC .

Above maybe Short of a much more complex commercial install and video distribution array ,




Note : Hard to find bright , decent [cheap] 4K TV ,also maybe not all that dependable?



DO NOT display protected content or CATV/SAT /Broadcast feeds in a public venue outside of a small ONE TV small public bar ,family business ,coffee shop physicians waiting room or something like that without written and binding legal permissions they can sue you into abject poverty in a minute and will not hesitate to do so



Kodi will play all your compatible AV media,files ,picture view, ,DVD and so on and so on . More codec plugins are available

In Kodi Video add on's there are tons of free IPTV video add on's from many of the popular web sites you know and lots you don't know and some you don't want to know within Kodi repository to download and you can also get more on the web (*anything (some good ) and not all of it legal and they may be outside if Kodi approval/legal sometimes ) and you will usually be be using Kodi to fetch it all.


[Kodi has every playback setting you can imagine and some you can't , including pause break duration's for consecutive media file playback and It plays loops , it can bit steam AC-3 Dolby digital and DTS 5.1 or lossless music up to 2 ch. hires music

Make sreb your heaophone jack is unpugged from the TV for 5.1 audio data for external decoding on Sonys and maybe some other TV

Say Hi to Elvis for me if you spot him before I do in the after life
TV's Samsung PN64f8500 PDP, 2 -5.1 speaks ,2 Sony ES AVR all total |MY hideout : Sony 4K HDR XBR X850C,2016.HP 4K core i5 PC, plausible 5.1, Sources D*TV HR54 and room clients ,OTA ,Roku,TV Android 6.0.1 ,all the usuall other stuff up to 4K HDR IPTV and hires media hdd eye candy ,Custom core i7 Game /drive sim PC & G27 wheel ,reference quality 2.1 music > PC Game /Music room. 3 LG,Sony LED TV

Last edited by synccoil; 01-04-2017 at 02:34 AM.
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