Are the 46" or 55" Samsung LEDs really that bad??? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 37 Old 03-04-2010, 01:08 PM - Thread Starter
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I am desperately looking for a 55" LCD or LED for mostly movies and gaming. I have a fairly lit room and I thought the Samsung 6000 or 8000 series (7000 is not worth extra money to me for aesthetics and internet gadgets) was the answer based on their beautiful display at BB. Like always, I did some research and I am very concerned about the lighting issues. So concerned, I think I am going to pass (although I really want to love the Sammy LEDs!!!)

Do I wait for second gen Sammy LEDs to see if lighting issue is corrected?


What is your opinion on the best 55" movie/gaming LCD?

I want to stick with BB inventory, unfortunately, because of the 3 year 0% interest...
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post #2 of 37 Old 03-04-2010, 01:47 PM
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I'm with you on the 3 years no interest, hard to beat that deal.
What lighting issues? Honestly, I have spent several hours comparing the current products at BB, and I don't see anything that even comes close to the 8500; (other than maybe the 8000 or the local-dimmed 46 inch Sharp in my living room, which is going back for a bigger set) the picture on the 8500 is simply amazing due to the local dimming. Maybe I'm missing something, but C-Net gave the 8500 their top review of all LCDs they have tested...
"The bottom line: It costs a mint, but Samsung's local dimming, LED-based UNB8500 series delivers the best picture quality of any LCD we've tested."
http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-t....html?tag=also
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post #3 of 37 Old 03-04-2010, 03:22 PM
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from someone who knows...... Pass!

i originally ordered the 47ln850lcd beautiful picture..BUT, clouding,IR issues and bezel color peeling. after 7 months and 4 different techs come out Samsung offered me the 46B750. i took it and guess what?

After a month of use IR issue came again it was there when i first got it but not as bad as time went on it got worse and i even tried numerous setting to resolve the issue. then i did the ghetto crap they told people to do "which from them telling me to do this i should have just dropped them back with the 850" i put tape over the IR on the cable box. still ticks me off to think about it well it worked for like 2 weeks then the problem came back and no matter how much tape i used it would fix the issue. and then i noticed that the actual tv controller itself would work on the tv most of the time and that was the last straw. i called Samsung and told them its been 1 year and all i keep getting is JUNK! refund my loot or i report to BBB. they complied and refunded my money and sent me a check which i gladly took and purchased to new LCD screens for botht he bedroom and living room and both dont have an issue int he world and one even has a better picture then both the LCD's i got from Samsung and that would be the 46xv645U Toshiba!

i love Samsung or atleast i did i own alot of electronics fromt hem but when i went to spend the most money on their biggest product. i got dooked!
its your call but i would stay clear or if you get it from BB test the hell out of it for that 30 days so you can take it back if you get jumk.

BTW, clouding and flashlighting you wont see in BB because its not the right situation and you need to test that in a dark room or a dark movir which most of the time you wont see in BB.

Last but not leat never and i dont care what site or reveiwer you read from dont believe the hype what tv got the best reveiw. the only place to really find out about a tv is right here. take a look at the thread for the 8500 and you'll see it has its problems. sure the picture is awesome but the LCD itself makes clicking noises and flashes. for the price they want the last thing you wanna hear is a clicking noise

GL
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post #4 of 37 Old 03-04-2010, 03:55 PM
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The Samsung LEDs are fabulous. Best TV I have ever seen
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post #5 of 37 Old 03-04-2010, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omeletpants View Post

The Samsung LEDs are fabulous. Best TV I have ever seen

+1, it's funny I saw the 8500 and the 8000 for the first time this week and I was stunned, especially the 8500; it kinda knocked me on my azz. The more I am reading about this set the more I learn, apparently Samsung got sued by Sharp over it and pulled it off their site for a while. I have seen a lot of TV's but nothing compares with this thing, it's a beast.
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post #6 of 37 Old 03-04-2010, 05:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FloridaDude View Post

+1, it's funny I saw the 8500 and the 8000 for the first time this week and I was stunned, especially the 8500; it kinda knocked me on my azz. The more I am reading about this set the more I learn, apparently Samsung got sued by Sharp over it and pulled it off their site for a while. I have seen a lot of TV's but nothing compares with this thing, it's a beast.

I have the A950 which is the previous generation LED. The picture still blows me away with zero problems. I have seen the 8500 and it's fabulous. LED LCD is the way to go.
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post #7 of 37 Old 03-04-2010, 05:36 PM
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my 5o" samsung dlp blew a digital board 1 month and a day before the end of the warranty. samsung decided it was 'unfixable"
. so they(the insurance co.) provided me a 55 toshiba(55sv670u) led as a replacement. i love it! there is a place for a photo memory card on the side input ,but, i don't see any way to access it. any suggestions out there?
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post #8 of 37 Old 03-04-2010, 05:43 PM
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Lets not drool over the Samsung 8500 they have major problems.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OEdx...eature=related

bad side lighting.

I have had my problems with Samsung, but overall I would buy Samsung again.

Now that I learned about "S" Panels and the Panel Lottery.
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post #9 of 37 Old 03-04-2010, 05:49 PM
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My Samsung UN46B8000 is fabulous. Best picture I've EVER seen and I have absolutely zero regrets.
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post #10 of 37 Old 03-04-2010, 06:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Cold View Post

Lets not drool over the Samsung 8500 they have major problems.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OEdx...eature=related

bad side lighting.

I have had my problems with Samsung, but overall I would buy Samsung again.

Now that I learned about "S" Panels and the Panel Lottery.

Thanks, did you make that video, is that your set?
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post #11 of 37 Old 03-04-2010, 06:56 PM
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I've had my UN55B6000 for a few days and I absolutely love it. The picture quality is just out of this world...best I've ever seen myself. There are probably better looking TVs out there but I haven't seen it.

I do have to mention that it does have a slight issue with lighting coming out from the corners, very faint, but it is there. It doesn't bother me but thought it should be mentioned.
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post #12 of 37 Old 03-04-2010, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Cold View Post

Lets not drool over the Samsung 8500 they have major problems.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OEdx...eature=related

bad side lighting.

I have had my problems with Samsung, but overall I would buy Samsung again.

Now that I learned about "S" Panels and the Panel Lottery.

What's your brightness setting? Turn it down around 45 and it should disappear.
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post #13 of 37 Old 03-04-2010, 08:02 PM
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Great, now you guys are making me all OCD about my new TV haha. I went and paid closer attention, and when the screen is completely black, there are some clouding issues at the top and at every corner. Oh well, it's still a fantastic picture.
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post #14 of 37 Old 03-04-2010, 08:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, even if I decided to bit the bullet and get the 6000, I can't. Sold out at every BB around and it's discontinued. Getting ready for the 3D sets now. There was already a 55C7000WF 3D LED on display today. Does anyone know if these new 3d sets are local dimming?
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post #15 of 37 Old 03-04-2010, 10:36 PM
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depending on the type of gaming and frequency of gaming you plan to do you may want to reconsider any LED samsung TV

take a look at the thread in my sig for more information if gaming is important to you

If you're a gamer or interested in using an LCD TV as a primary monitor take a look at my thread on Input Lag
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post #16 of 37 Old 03-04-2010, 11:27 PM
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Frito,

All you have to do is enable "Game" mode and lag is not a problem on most units.

And on the Samsung 8500 for instance, the graphics in Game mode are very good, so visuals are not a problem either.

One day at a time...
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post #17 of 37 Old 03-05-2010, 12:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by happy nightmares View Post

Frito,

All you have to do is enable "Game" mode and lag is not a problem on most units.

And on the Samsung 8500 for instance, the graphics in Game mode are very good, so visuals are not a problem either.

depends on the TV and every result i've seen on any LED Samsung TV has too high of input lag for serious gaming.

casual gamers i'm sure will not have a problem with the lag but there are people out there like myself who do not want their display delaying the image displayed to the point it hampers their performance and in many games this is the case if your monitor or TV lags by even 30ms let alone the 50-70ms these TV's lag at in game mode.

simply put if you play FPS games online and take your performance in them seriously and your playing on a TV with that much lag your dead before you even got a chance to shoot at the other guy.

other games like street fighter etc. require timing so precise for combo moves that having a display delay the image by any more than 15-30ms makes it impossible to play them properly.

there are many other games that input lag cannot be adjusted for like sports games requiring precise timing like golf and baseball games to name a few.

the list really does go on.

if you choose to turn a blind eye to the problem because you don't want to know or don't care about a fault in a TV you may own its your prerogative, i'm simply pointing these things out to gamers looking into new TV's so they are aware of the problem before hand.

it's up to them to decide if they think its an issue or not not you or myself

If you're a gamer or interested in using an LCD TV as a primary monitor take a look at my thread on Input Lag
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post #18 of 37 Old 03-05-2010, 02:49 AM
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Just go audition at BB and take home the one that pleases you and at least if you start out with the Samsung the damn thing is so light that it shouldn't be all problematic using your return window even though it's a hassle. This is one of the advantages of buying through BB is the return window.

I say decide for yourself and NOT this forum because the feedback here is schitzoid and their is a weighing to the negative where those that are unhappy will repeatedly voice their dissatisfaction whereas Happy owners aren't as prone to do so - they just view their panels and don't necessarily seek forums if their just enjoying their system.

As many people that shout clouding, flashlighting, blooming I see just as many that see NONE whatsoever or some that don't care what the hell the panel looks VOID of display content or give a "F" what the credits look like. Take those negatives reported and when you audition see if they replicate and if they annoy you.

Audition as best you can and then take a panel home to be your HT Beeatch and if it disappoints you have other options since your going BB but don't ever think your not paying for that OPTION through built-in markup. Good Luck!

Samsung 65F8000, 60D8000, 40HU6350, Panasonic 50E60 LCD's
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post #19 of 37 Old 03-05-2010, 05:51 AM - Thread Starter
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westa6969, thanks. Great advice. I agree with everything you have said. The thing that makes it even more tempting is that those inflated BB prices are slashed now to get rid of these models for next ones. For example, a 6000 for $1999 plus no interest for 3 years. You are right, I will get best one I can afford and just bring the da*n thing home and see for myself.

Although...there are the new 3d models hitting floors now.... Ahhh!!!! too many options!
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post #20 of 37 Old 03-05-2010, 07:03 AM
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Frito,

I had a feeling you might come back with a (smart-ass) response like that, so let me make a few things crystal clear for you.

#1 - I'm a serious gamer. I'm a member of 3 different online leagues and I play every day. I know what lag is. I also know the difference between significant lag and minimal lag. If you are a 'good' player, than minimal lag is not a problem.

#2 - Your tests are not supervised or controlled by a professional. They are not conclusive and they really don't prove anything.

#3- You have not tested all the models. You are wrong for attempting to mislead people into believing you have.

#4 - Numbers and tests are nice to look at, but they are only useful to a point. Real-world gaming tells the true story.

#5 - As long as the lag is not significant, it's a non issue for skilled players. Splitting hairs between a few milliseconds is something for noobs and people with nothing better to do with their time. But of course, I suppose if you have no skill, those few extra milliseconds might matter to you.

Enough said.

One day at a time...
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post #21 of 37 Old 03-05-2010, 08:22 AM - Thread Starter
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OK, I totally bit the bullet and bought the 6000 because that is what I could afford. Period. There was one unit left at one BB about an hour from me. I'll get it, test the crap out of it witrh my games, movies, and HDTV. We'll see what happens. I can post my findings if anyone cares...

I was so tempted to get the 8500 but...well, I can't afford it Otherwise that would have been it for me. Although, I was also tempted by the 3D C7000 they now have in stock but too much money as well.

Interesting question though... Would you buy a Sam LED 8500 or a 3D C7000? They are almost the same price but, as we know, the 8500 is local dimming and the C7000 is edge lit but 3D.
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post #22 of 37 Old 03-05-2010, 09:45 AM
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I bought a 46 inch 6000 series from Bestbuy in Frisco only to be waiting at the front door for them to tell me their system was wrong and they didn't have any Luckily the one down the street closer to where I live had one. Haven't been on this site in awhile. So tonight is game night with friends so will have a few different opinions on how it handles Modern Warfare 2 and Bad Company 2. Hopefully it won't be going back. I did put some 1080p photos on a thumbdrive and plug it in. Made for some good artwork displaying.
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post #23 of 37 Old 03-05-2010, 10:08 AM - Thread Starter
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jgibo1, please let me know how MW2 does. I am very, very curious. Thanks! Also, I actually bought the 6000 online and got an email saying it was ready to be picked up. I kind of hope they screw up so I can say I drove an hour and demand an 8000 series for less money!
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post #24 of 37 Old 03-05-2010, 10:10 AM - Thread Starter
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So, I think I am down to my final dilemma. I bought the 6000 and will test it but EXACTLY how much better does the 55" 8000 perform? The only difference is the 3,000,000 to 1 and 5,000,000 to 1 contrast ratio. Is it that noticeable to the human eye?
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post #25 of 37 Old 03-05-2010, 11:55 AM
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Do you really think you'd be able to tell from watching movies, tv, etc? I would say it's doubtful unless you hook up some sort of measuring equipment or do some pro calibrating.
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post #26 of 37 Old 03-05-2010, 01:43 PM
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They aren't all that bad, there are some bad ones. Some good ones. I'm personally returning my 55b800 for the new 55c7000 just cause the clouding & flashlighting are just really bad on mine. Plus the new 3d LED's have better calibration possible tweaks for those who are into that side of HT enjoyment. I'm VERY into my TV so yeah. I use mine for Gaming, Blu-ray, and Computer usage. Works amazingly well. Just test & test.

Blu-ray Collection - 205
PS3 Collection - 25
LED Enthusiast, 3D Endeavor
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post #27 of 37 Old 03-05-2010, 10:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsehbvj View Post

So, I think I am down to my final dilemma. I bought the 6000 and will test it but EXACTLY how much better does the 55" 8000 perform? The only difference is the 3,000,000 to 1 and 5,000,000 to 1 contrast ratio. Is it that noticeable to the human eye?

well... if you beleive samsung marketing machine... i've nothing to say...

here F.Y.I
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1213853&page=6

maybe this thread will also be closed now?
Boky
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post #28 of 37 Old 03-05-2010, 11:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by happy nightmares View Post

Frito,

I had a feeling you might come back with a (smart-ass) response like that, so let me make a few things crystal clear for you.

#1 - I'm a serious gamer. I'm a member of 3 different online leagues and I play every day. I know what lag is. I also know the difference between significant lag and minimal lag. If you are a 'good' player, than minimal lag is not a problem.

#2 - Your tests are not supervised or controlled by a professional. They are not conclusive and they really don't prove anything.

#3- You have not tested all the models. You are wrong for attempting to mislead people into believing you have.

#4 - Numbers and tests are nice to look at, but they are only useful to a point. Real-world gaming tells the true story.

#5 - As long as the lag is not significant, it's a non issue for skilled players. Splitting hairs between a few milliseconds is something for noobs and people with nothing better to do with their time. But of course, I suppose if you have no skill, those few extra milliseconds might matter to you.

Enough said.


you want to play your console games in a laggy environment go right ahead.

your console games lag more than the TV does even ones as bad as the Samsung LED's

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/di...article?page=3

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/di...article?page=3

Quote:


Burnout Paradise 67ms
BioShock (frame-locked) 133ms
BioShock (unlocked) as low as 67ms
Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare 67ms-84ms
Call of Duty: World at War 67ms-100ms
Call of Juarez: Bound in Blood 100ms
Forza Motorsport 2 67ms
Geometry Wars 2 67ms
Guitar Hero: Aerosmith 67ms
Grand Theft Auto IV 133ms-200ms
Halo 3 100ms-150ms
Left 4 Dead 100ms-133ms
LEGO Batman 133ms
Mirror's Edge 133ms
Street Fighter IV 67ms
Soul Calibur IV 67ms-84ms
Unreal Tournament 3 100ms-133ms
X-Men Origins: Wolverine 133ms

Quote:


BioShock 2 Frame-rate Locked 133-150ms
BioShock 2 Frame-rate Unlocked 100-150ms
Call of Duty: World at War 66ms-100ms
Dante's Inferno 100ms
Killzone 2 150-183ms
LittleBigPlanet 100ms
Mirror's Edge 133ms
MotorStorm: Pacific Rift 116ms-133ms
Resident Evil 5 100-150ms
Ridge Racer 7 66ms
Street Fighter IV 66ms
Unreal Tournament III 100-133ms
WipEout HD 84ms

combined that lag with internet lag and your LED samsung's 60-80ms input lag

your looking at close to a half of a second of lag!


as for real world results let me tell you my story of how i was an input lag skeptic much like yourself and became a believer of never buying another Laggy display to use with my PC for gaming.

a year ago i bought a Sony 32XBR6 with intent to use it as my primary PC monitor, it seemingly worked great, image was great on it the game i mainly played at the time EVE Online a space based MMORPG was great on it because lag is never an issue in those sorts of games.

then one day i decided to break out Battlefield 1942, I used to be one of the best pilots in that game and was in a clan that placed 2nd in CAL at one time. I had flown with the best of the best pilots in that game and learned much from them.

so i got into a low lag server and started playing it and for the life of me i could not shoot down other planes when they would bank to try to get away from me, this is a critical time and often the time i take them out because they expose their engine to my guns. in order to hit the engine you must lead your planes cross hairs in front of them and i know very well where to place my cross hairs to take down a target very quickly.

problem was with my new TV i could not ever find the area i needed to place my cross hairs because my TV was delaying the image displayed so much i could never predict when to fire and i would end up hitting their tail section and they would take minimal damage.

now having already tested my TV for input lag and knew about that problem i was like i guess i should try using my 22" Viewsonic LCD PC monitor so i moved it in front of my TV on my desk, jumped back into the very same server with the same guys in it and went from being one of the worst players in that server for a round to being ranked 3rd!

if that's not a real world explanation for how input lag of a display can impact your gaming I don't know what is.

after getting my Panny 37S1 i no longer have problems playing this game because although I've tested it to be slower than my PC monitor its only slower by 10ms roughly and not enough to impact gaming, the mere 45ms lag my Sony TV had was extremely detrimental to my game play.

if you think i'm alone in this need for a nearly lag free display your mistaken, there are many articles around the net on it and even threads here on these forums, i run one of them that works to compile data on as many TV's as possible to help gamers that care about their gaming performance

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=558125

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1131464

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1110472

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1166196

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1068844

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3601

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Input_lag

http://www.behardware.com/articles/6...2-to-5-ms.html

http://www.anandtech.com/printarticle.aspx?i=3584

http://gear.ign.com/articles/720/720303p2.html

the list goes on just search about it

If you're a gamer or interested in using an LCD TV as a primary monitor take a look at my thread on Input Lag
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post #29 of 37 Old 03-06-2010, 01:52 PM
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frito, thanks for the breakdown on the games lag itself. Nice to know.

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post #30 of 37 Old 03-16-2010, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Extreme_Boky View Post

well... if you beleive samsung marketing machine... i've nothing to say...

here F.Y.I
avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1213853&page=6

maybe this thread will also be closed now?
Boky

I've been lurking on this forum on and off for a while and didn't think my post would be about Samsung in general. Anyways,

To quote from TNG;

"I have different reasons why I will never buy a Samsung for my household. I work mainly on equipement that we sell to customers all over the world. Tools that we placed at Samsung was an eye opener, I found while I was there that Samsung is the most unethical company out there. This is not just individual employees that may be bad, it seems to be a company directive from Korea. I will never spend MY money on a Samsung product."

Anyone who's read stories, reports, etc about Samsung in Korea would understand why so many citizen groups oppose Samsung and its products in Korea. For instance, ex-CEO was found guilty of mis-using his power to manipulate and use his stock options, to the amount that was aestronomical to normal people. But he got off without serving any real term in real prison. Remember that guy in NY SEC? Didn't he get rightfully deserved sentence?

People buy products for different reasons, but for me, my hard earned dollar goes to another company with similar product.
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