Image Retention my Samsung LCD...anyone else? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 25 Old 03-04-2010, 07:58 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm noticing some sure signs of temporary image retention on a family member's Samsung LCD. It's out of warranty, and I'm wondering if anyone else has seen this problem first hand or has heard of such an issue on LCDs? What is the fix/replacement? Will it be expensive?

Last week, we were watching a news station for almost an hour...it might have been on that channel longer - not sure...Anyway, after switching to a different channel, it was quite noticeable that the news logo still remained on the screen (albeit faintly)...and was noticeable in light colored backgrounds.

Similarly, just the other day we were watching 4:3 content with black bars on the sides....after I changed the channel to a HD movie, I again noticed that there were faint lines still faintly observed on both sides of the TV against various backgrounds.

Also noticed the DirecTV menu's cells (little rectangular boxes - the outlines) can be seen for a split second after exiting/changing the menu screen. Could this be a DirecTV issue? I'm baffled...and being out of warranty I'm hoping this isnt expensive and that it doesn't get worse...Backlight was at 10 but has since been turned down to 3 and the signs are still showing up...
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post #2 of 25 Old 03-04-2010, 08:19 PM
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you sure their samsung is an LCD and not a plasma?

what your describing sounds like normal IR on a Plasma that has the contrast set too high

there are certain LCD types out there that can get TIR but generally it takes a long time of displaying a bright image on the screen (at least a couple days) and the result is that when darker images are displayed you see a latent image of the bright letters/whatever was left on the screen for very long periods of time. plus when this does happen to these rare LCD's it will not go away while the display is on, only turning it off for an extended period of time removes the "burned in" images

plasma IR on the other hand often rapidly disappears as fast as it was created by just watching something with a moving image

If you're a gamer or interested in using an LCD TV as a primary monitor take a look at my thread on Input Lag
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post #3 of 25 Old 03-05-2010, 04:16 AM - Thread Starter
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It's an LCD....4061 series...
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post #4 of 25 Old 03-05-2010, 04:23 AM
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A while back there were LCDs (and pics here, IIRC) of actual burn-in on some LCD panels. If it wasn't burn-in, it was some nasty IR. Most likely have to go to the archives to find it.

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post #5 of 25 Old 03-05-2010, 05:53 AM
 
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To remove IR on LCD you have to unplug the set totaly (power and device) and leave it like that for a week. It should come back to normal after that. Or you can use a simple utility on PC that display a bright white screen and leave that on for a couple of day.

This is what we do for computer monitor (LCD).

LCD can't really have permanent IR.
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post #6 of 25 Old 03-05-2010, 08:12 AM
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I have an LCD monitor that gets TIR and to get rid of it all i have to do is turn it off overnight for a few nights, its caused by overdrive and and leaving bright objects on the screen for very long peroids of time (at least a few days if not a week or more)

this is a TN monitor though perhaps OD/RTC induced IR operates differently on a VA/IPS screen idk

If you're a gamer or interested in using an LCD TV as a primary monitor take a look at my thread on Input Lag
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post #7 of 25 Old 03-05-2010, 08:21 AM - Thread Starter
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I find it awfully strange and disturbing that I'm seeing it on a $1,000 (at the time) LCD television and everyone else has only seen it on smaller, cheaper computer monitors......

This is temporary image retention, I know its not burn-in....I'm wondering if this is an expensive fix like a completely new panel or if its something with the electronics/processing....I'm going to give Samsung an email/call to find out what they think its related to..
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post #8 of 25 Old 03-05-2010, 08:26 AM
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Yes LCD's do get image retention. Happened on my Viera, a few times...but it's just that, retention. It goes away and nothing to worry about at all. What setting is it on. If you have high sharpness, contrast, after a while itll happen. Happened on my HUD's while gaming. But a non issue. Your LCD is safe.
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post #9 of 25 Old 03-05-2010, 08:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SirReal Madrid View Post

Yes LCD's do get image retention. Happened on my Viera, a few times...but it's just that, retention. It goes away and nothing to worry about at all. What setting is it on. If you have high sharpness, contrast, after a while itll happen. Happened on my HUD's while gaming. But a non issue. Your LCD is safe.


Don't have the settings cranked either...Also, I didn't think panel settings affected an LCD panel in the way they do a CRT or Plasma screen...but anyway,

Contrast: 85
Sharpness: 5
Brightness: 49
Backlight: 3
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post #10 of 25 Old 03-05-2010, 11:16 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesco411 View Post

Don't have the settings cranked either...Also, I didn't think panel settings affected an LCD panel in the way they do a CRT or Plasma screen...but anyway,

Contrast: 85
Sharpness: 5
Brightness: 49
Backlight: 3

The difference is that with CRT and Plasma image retention can be a permanent feature while on LCD it is only momentary.
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post #11 of 25 Old 03-05-2010, 07:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesco411 View Post

I'm noticing some sure signs of temporary image retention on a family member's Samsung LCD. It's out of warranty, and I'm wondering if anyone else has seen this problem first hand or has heard of such an issue on LCDs? What is the fix/replacement? Will it be expensive?

Last week, we were watching a news station for almost an hour...it might have been on that channel longer - not sure...Anyway, after switching to a different channel, it was quite noticeable that the news logo still remained on the screen (albeit faintly)...and was noticeable in light colored backgrounds.

Similarly, just the other day we were watching 4:3 content with black bars on the sides....after I changed the channel to a HD movie, I again noticed that there were faint lines still faintly observed on both sides of the TV against various backgrounds.

Also noticed the DirecTV menu's cells (little rectangular boxes - the outlines) can be seen for a split second after exiting/changing the menu screen. Could this be a DirecTV issue? I'm baffled...and being out of warranty I'm hoping this isnt expensive and that it doesn't get worse...Backlight was at 10 but has since been turned down to 3 and the signs are still showing up...


Same thing is happening with my 40" Samsung LCD LN40A530 tv! I've had it for about a year and a half with no problems until 2 days ago. I have always had the dynamic picture setting on (Torch Mode as it is sometimes called). Maybe that's why image retention started happening? I wonder if it's also because I never did break-in the tv (I didn't know much about hdtv's at the time) I also emailed Samsung today. So I'll see if they can help at all.

This was my basic picture settings for a year and a half:
Mode: Dynamic
Backlight: 10
Contrast: 100
Brightness: 60
Sharpness: 100
Color: 50
Energy Saving: Off


This is what I have been using now (and I still get image retention):
Backlight: 7
Contrast: 85
Brightness: 50
Sharpness: 18
Color: 50
Energy Saving: Low


Does anybody know if this setting is pretty good? Or should I lower anything?
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post #12 of 25 Old 03-08-2010, 03:00 PM
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ok got an email back from samsung. Here it is:


Dear Samsung Customer,

Thank you for contacting Samsung Electronics.

With reference to your email, we understand you notice the image on your LCD TV retains after 30 minutes
indicate the burn-in effect. You notice this issue while pausing the game that is being played. You always
used the Dynamic picture settings and want to know if changing the picture settings resolve the issue.

Please note that the LCD TVs are subject to burn-in (image retention) if the image on the screen is more than
30 minutes. We recommend you avoid letting the same image to be on the screen for more than 30 minutes.


Unfortunately, changing the picture settings may not fix the image retention of the screen.

If you require any further information, please feel free to contact us.


Thank you,

Samsung Online Support.


Really Samsung? So, are they saying even LCD tv's can get image retention within only 30 minutes?
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post #13 of 25 Old 03-08-2010, 03:18 PM
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That statement is certainly not true. They gave you a very conservative number probably just to cover their own ass. I have never personally seen a LCD with burn-in problem, though, and i believe yours is a rare one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Co Miyavi View Post

ok got an email back from samsung. Here it is:


Dear Samsung Customer,

Thank you for contacting Samsung Electronics.

With reference to your email, we understand you notice the image on your LCD TV retains after 30 minutes
indicate the burn-in effect. You notice this issue while pausing the game that is being played. You always
used the Dynamic picture settings and want to know if changing the picture settings resolve the issue.

Please note that the LCD TVs are subject to burn-in (image retention) if the image on the screen is more than
30 minutes. We recommend you avoid letting the same image to be on the screen for more than 30 minutes.


Unfortunately, changing the picture settings may not fix the image retention of the screen.

If you require any further information, please feel free to contact us.


Thank you,

Samsung Online Support.


Really Samsung? So, are they saying even LCD tv's can get image retention within only 30 minutes?

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post #14 of 25 Old 03-08-2010, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesco411 View Post

Don't have the settings cranked either...Also, I didn't think panel settings affected an LCD panel in the way they do a CRT or Plasma screen...but anyway,

Contrast: 85
Sharpness: 5
Brightness: 49
Backlight: 3

Contrast is still way high IMO. You should really get a calibration disc. But after being used to that much contrast, a calibrated TV would look "flat" to you and probably not eye-catching.
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post #15 of 25 Old 04-02-2010, 04:26 PM
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I'm new here, and actually I stumbled upon this thread due to my TV also having the same problem. Interestingly enough, my set is also a Samsung LNT4061F. I can assure you that this image retention is happening in an extremely short amount of time now. I can watch a hockey game for literally 20 minutes and have retention of the little scoreboard thing afterward.
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post #16 of 25 Old 04-02-2010, 04:39 PM
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the 4061 is an LCD introduced in 2007

Burn in on an LCD is possible: don't let anyone tell you otherwise: but it takes a long time: as in years

an example of this is a Windows logo burned into a laptop display or an LCD used for surveillance service, or a touchscreen remote control

Burn in is permanent: it will not go away as opposed to image retention

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post #17 of 25 Old 05-25-2010, 12:14 PM
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My samsung LCD TV (LNT4061) has exact the same problem. After leaving a still image for some time (tens of minutes to hours), you can always see a ghost image behind, similar to a burn-in effect in old plasma TV. The problem did not start until several month ago (one year after the TV was bought), and it is getting more problematic recently.

As earlier post mentioned, it is not a permanent problem. The retention typical will be gone in the next day. However, it is annoying. If I watched a regular channel (4:3 with two sides being black) or a sport with a score board at the bottom for a couple of hours, I had to live with the retention on both side and the score board for the whole night!

I am not sure whether it is samsung specific or common to other LCD TVs. I think this is due to the aging of liquid crystal molecule or the chemical in the panel. I suspect many people have realized this because 1) the problem would not start a few years after being used 2) large LCD TV was not popular until several years ago. However, I bet it will become a growing problem and more and more people will start to realized this.
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post #18 of 25 Old 05-25-2010, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dathon View Post

Contrast is still way high IMO. You should really get a calibration disc. But after being used to that much contrast, a calibrated TV would look "flat" to you and probably not eye-catching.

samsungs usually calibrate pretty well with high contrast settings though

with many sets contrast near 50 is normal, not with samsungs as far as I can tell, i usually see it set 80-98 in calibration threads (and similar even for those who paid for ISF calibration)
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post #19 of 25 Old 05-26-2010, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markrubin View Post

the 4061 is an LCD introduced in 2007

Burn in on an LCD is possible: don't let anyone tell you otherwise: but it takes a long time: as in years

an example of this is a Windows logo burned into a laptop display or an LCD used for surveillance service, or a touchscreen remote control

Burn in is permanent: it will not go away as opposed to image retention

Yeah, it gets tiring hearing that it simply doesn't happen on LCD when there is a ton of evidence showing that it can and does. Heck, my PSP slim screen is starting to get a darkened border around the screen and that section gets nasty IR from games. (like FPS counters) I probably need to get a new PSP before the entire screen gets like this....

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post #20 of 25 Old 10-25-2013, 05:08 PM
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Hello-

I know this is an older thread, but I am having the same issue on my 2008 Samsung 37 in. The image retention isn't from leaving on one screen for too long, it is literally screen to screen. For example, I was watching Wheel of Fortune tonight, and when the screen changed from Vanna and the letter blocks to the shot of the contestants, I can see faint images of the letter blocks in the light areas behind the people. Also does the same thing if I go into the menu- once I exit, I can still see the menu image in the screen. Other than that, the picture seems to be fine.

Question is, is this a bad LCD, or possibly a board or electrical problem? I did take it to a service guy, and he said it could be fixed with a main board change- but he wanted almost 200 bucks to do it. I have some skills, so I ordered a board and did it myself. No joy, still does the same thing.

Just trying to avoid putting any more money in it if the panel is going bad.

Thanks-
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post #21 of 25 Old 10-26-2013, 04:11 AM
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^^^

there are plenty of Image Retention reports of Samsung LCD's from that time period

https://www.google.com/search?q=Samsung+37+lCD+image+retention&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1232458/image-retention-my-samsung-lcd-anyone-else

Today's LCD displays are much more resistant to this issue: I would not put any more time or $$$ into a 5 year old LCD

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post #22 of 25 Old 10-26-2013, 07:25 AM
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Thanks for the reply, Mark- I had already read some of those posts, but was still looking for that definitive answer of "yes, this is a bad or failing LCD.." Being as how the picture itself is still fine from a clarity and color standpoint, I just hate to throw it away. I guess I need to find a new TV tech...

I know you say the newer ones are much more resistant- but I wonder if LCDs have been around long enough now that we can start to get a true understanding of what the "real" lifespan should be. In the case of mine, 5 years doesn't seem like a lot.
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post #23 of 25 Old 10-27-2013, 06:08 AM
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I am not sure whether it is samsung specific or common to other LCD TVs. I think this is due to the aging of liquid crystal molecule or the chemical in the panel. I suspect many people have realized this becausea 1) the problem would not start a few years after being used 2) large LCD TV was not popular until several years ago. However, I bet it will become a growing problem and more and more people will start to realized this.

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post #24 of 25 Old 10-27-2013, 12:24 PM
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Right- so the question is- and I think it would be interesting to have some sort of poll here on the forum-

Are people with LCDs that are 4-5 years old starting to have issues in a significant number? Is it time to start unloading those units in favor of newer models? If so, is 5 years a reasonable, acceptable time for an LCD TV to last, especially given that back then they were thousands of dollars to buy vs. hundreds today?

Or, is this just the natural evolution of a technology, and is there really evidence that the newer panels (made in the last couple years) are better?
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post #25 of 25 Old 10-27-2013, 12:54 PM
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My LCD will be 3 years old next month (from time of build) so it doesn't quite fall within your time frame but it still looks and performs as well as did the day I took it out of the box. Absolutely no image retention no matter how close you look.
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