Official Samsung LNXXC630/C650 Owners Thread - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 6233 Old 03-27-2010, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by alakaboo View Post

You can't even tell that it's on.

Wtf, you can allwasy see that a CCFL tv is on. Or the dimming is too agressive. Or you have switched the tv off
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post #272 of 6233 Old 03-27-2010, 04:53 PM
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I know there have been some sporadic reports of lip sync issues, and I definitely have some.

TV - Samsung LN-46C630
STB - Motorola DCX-3400
AVR - Denon AVR-1610

STB <--HDMI--> TV <--TOSlink--> AVR

I have the STB directly connected to the TV to work around the "loss of settings" issue that is somewhat common with the new DCX units. (I would prefer to connect it up through the AVR, but such is life.)

The audio appears to lag behind the video, i.e. you see before you hear. Adjusting the audio delay in the SPDIF Output menu helps, sometimes, but it's never quite right. In some cases, even with the delay set to zero and the AVR set to "Direct" (which disables all audio processing), there is still a lag.

The "solution" seems to be to set the audio output on the STB to L-PCM and the audio format on the TV to PCM. Unfortunately, it doesn't pass multichannel PCM to the AVR on DD 5.1 channels, so it's one lousy work-around. But having the sound and picture out-of-sync is simply unbearable.
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post #273 of 6233 Old 03-27-2010, 06:12 PM
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Finally got a change to hang my 46C650 up on the wall and play around with some settings today. My initial impressions are good although I haven't played with the color settings much yet. I've been using the "Movie" setting with the back light turned down to 6, and sharpness at 4. Also turned off all the motion plus processing for the time being. Some photos below, note that my camera is an old 3.2 mp and my photo taking skills are far from top notch.
LL
LL
LL
LL
LL
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post #274 of 6233 Old 03-27-2010, 06:31 PM
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Wow that looks great, what is the 3rd pic from?
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post #275 of 6233 Old 03-27-2010, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by NeronetFi View Post

Wow that looks great, what is the 3rd pic from?

3rd pic is actually the Wildlife sample video that comes with Win7 in the Video library. I was playing around with the DLNA features and found it in there.
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post #276 of 6233 Old 03-27-2010, 08:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alakaboo View Post

I know there have been some sporadic reports of lip sync issues, and I definitely have some.

TV - Samsung LN-46C630
STB - Motorola DCX-3400
AVR - Denon AVR-1610

STB <--HDMI--> TV <--TOSlink--> AVR

I have the STB directly connected to the TV to work around the "loss of settings" issue that is somewhat common with the new DCX units. (I would prefer to connect it up through the AVR, but such is life.)

The audio appears to lag behind the video, i.e. you see before you hear. Adjusting the audio delay in the SPDIF Output menu helps, sometimes, but it's never quite right. In some cases, even with the delay set to zero and the AVR set to "Direct" (which disables all audio processing), there is still a lag.

The "solution" seems to be to set the audio output on the STB to L-PCM and the audio format on the TV to PCM. Unfortunately, it doesn't pass multichannel PCM to the AVR on DD 5.1 channels, so it's one lousy work-around. But having the sound and picture out-of-sync is simply unbearable.

OK. This may be an odd question, but have you used Netflix on your TV?

I think I've been having the same issue you've been having, though mine's using the TV speakers, as well as my old stereo, for sound. I don't have an AVR. My sound's been lagging behind the video. I had pretty much resigned myself to returning the TV.

The reason I ask that, though, is I just watched a movie on Netflix. The whole movie was out of sync, but with the video behind the audio. For some reason I accidentally closed Netflix, and had to reload the movie. When I did, the sync seemed better. Then when I looked at my cable, it seemed much much better, if not completely fixed. (Spending the last week staring at peoples lips makes it hard to tell, for sure.) Same with my BD-Player. And now that I think of it, I think I started noticing the problem after testing out the Netflix feature.

I don't know what's going on. It's really weird.
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post #277 of 6233 Old 03-28-2010, 01:05 AM
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Do you think the audio lagging could be fixed with a firmware update?
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post #278 of 6233 Old 03-28-2010, 04:36 AM
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Im curious if someone that has the c650 can post some pictures when they have some form of lighting in front of the TV.

Also wondering about the reports of lip synch issues. Is this when using the TV's speakers or only when using an AVR?
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post #279 of 6233 Old 03-28-2010, 06:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alakaboo View Post

I know there have been some sporadic reports of lip sync issues, and I definitely have some.
AVR - Denon AVR-1610
The audio appears to lag behind the video, i.e. you see before you hear. But having the sound and picture out-of-sync is simply unbearable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HankTheTurtle View Post

OK. This may be an odd question, but have you used Netflix on your TV?
I think I've been having the same issue you've been having, though mine's using the TV speakers, as well as my old stereo, for sound.

I've been paying careful attention to synch. issues since I put up my 650. I've worked in broadcasting/television for a long time and I have little tolerance for A/V synch. problems.
I'll preface my whole statement by saying that the synch. problem with the program material itself has never been worse due to the seperate paths the audio and video take in production/processing. It's very typical for me to find the CBS news with a synch problem on the southern affiliate's off-air channel but perfectly synchronized on the northern affiliate's off-air channel. It's not uncommon to find problems from episode to episode of television series on DVD. I'm just throwing that out there because it's very difficult these days to find anything that you can use as an absolute reference.
Having said that, I've found that the delay adjustments in my AVR1910 have been more than adequate to delay audio to match any delay introduced by the 650 if I have major processing going on. I have not recently experienced a situation where video leads audio; that would definitely be uncorrectable with the delay adjustment in the television or A/V receiver.
If possible, try an off-air antenna and test the evening news on CBS/ABC/NBC and see if you experience the synchronization problem. If you see a problem with all networks/programs, disable the auto-motion plus and noise reduction features in the set and see if that fixes the problem. It's also common to have a loss of signal create a synch. problem in MPEG streams (satellite, off-air, DVD) that is remedied by flipping channels/pausing momentarily and letting the decoder re-synchronize. The Netflix streaming stuff is a mixed bag. I've watched some material that was O.K., and some that was encoded poorly. In fact, much of the SD stuff looks like it may be at half vertical resolution to reduce bandwidth required for streaming.
You may indeed have a hardware problem with your sets, but I don't believe there's an inherent problem with the 650.
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post #280 of 6233 Old 03-28-2010, 06:42 AM
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Regarding the A/V synch. issue, I forgot to mention that you need to check each input's setting. There may not be a problem with the set's tuner when it's set for movie mode/noise reduction off/AMP off. Then, when you check a cable or satellite STB on HDMI 1, that input may be set to standard mode/noise reduction on/AMP smooth. You may be experiencing differences from input to input because of differences in input settings.
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post #281 of 6233 Old 03-28-2010, 07:27 AM
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I've tried to make sure all the settings are the same on all my different inputs.

I didn't remember until now, but a day or two before I started noticing an issue, I watched video off of a thumb drive. I might be grasping at straws here, but could unplugging the thumb drive have caused the issue?

I think I might end up exchanging the TV anyway, because now I'm paranoid it will happen again. I'd get the same model, though.
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post #282 of 6233 Old 03-28-2010, 07:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HankTheTurtle View Post

I've tried to make sure all the settings are the same on all my different inputs.
I didn't remember until now, but a day or two before I started noticing an issue, I watched video off of a thumb drive. I might be grasping at straws here, but could unplugging the thumb drive have caused the issue?
I think I might end up exchanging the TV anyway, because now I'm paranoid it will happen again. I'd get the same model, though.

It's unlikely that the thumb drive is related.
Here's an observation I just made.. I flipped past CBS off-air and noticed the news program A/V synch. was fine, while one of the commercial inserts was off. Then I flipped to the ABC affiliate and the discussion program was way off (to me anyway; I'm sure some folks wouldn't mind). As I said, the problems with the sources have never been worse...... At the moment, Face the Nation (off-air) on the southern CBS affiliate via the set's internal speakers is perfect.
Generally, I find off-air and DVD playback is O.K. on my 46" C650.
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post #283 of 6233 Old 03-28-2010, 09:57 AM
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My LN46C630 connected HDMI listening to TV speakers only, still looking for budget HDMI reciever to replace my vintage Yamaha Rx-V596.

STB Motorola ViP 1200 (ATT-Uverse) - No Lip sync issues
HTPC - No Lip sync issues
WDTV Live - No Lip sync issues
Xbox360 (game mode on) - No lag
OTA HD channel Master antenna- No issues
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post #284 of 6233 Old 03-28-2010, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vince22 View Post

My LN46C630 connected HDMI listening to TV speakers only, still looking for budget HDMI reciever to replace my vintage Yamaha Rx-V596.

STB Motorola ViP 1200 (ATT-Uverse) - No Lip sync issues
HTPC - No Lip sync issues
WDTV Live - No Lip sync issues
Xbox360 (game mode on) - No lag
OTA HD channel Master antenna- No issues

Thank you Vince. I was starting to get turned off of the new C6XX series b/c of all the talk of synch issues.
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post #285 of 6233 Old 03-28-2010, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeronetFi View Post

Thank you Vince. I was starting to get turned off of the new C6XX series b/c of all the talk of synch issues.

I honestly think I just got a defective unit. Other than one other person, I haven't heard about anyone else with the same problem.
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post #286 of 6233 Old 03-28-2010, 01:17 PM
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HankTheTurtle - are you planning on exchanging it?
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post #287 of 6233 Old 03-28-2010, 01:46 PM
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Received my LN40C630 from Amazon via CEVA. This is our first LCD. Love the picture. We're hearing the audio fade out, does'nt drop out completely, then fades back in to normal level. We have a Comcast HD box connected to the LN40C630 with component cables provided by Comcast. The problem occurs with either SRS Surround HD on and off. Has anyone heard of this issue?
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post #288 of 6233 Old 03-28-2010, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by NeronetFi View Post

HankTheTurtle - are you planning on exchanging it?

Yeah, I think so. For the same model. I'll post how that works out.
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post #289 of 6233 Old 03-28-2010, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by fraxeen View Post

Received my LN40C630 from Amazon via CEVA. This is our first LCD. Love the picture. We're hearing the audio fade out, does'nt drop out completely, then fades back in to normal level. We have a Comcast HD box connected to the LN40C630 with component cables provided by Comcast. The problem occurs with either SRS Surround HD on and off. Has anyone heard of this issue?

Are you using the Auto Volume, or TruDialog features?
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post #290 of 6233 Old 03-28-2010, 03:11 PM
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Just got off the phone with Samsung. They still don't have my model in their system, but the woman said it's officially being released on the 30th, but some stores let it out early. So...


For those still looking to find this TV, the official release date is March 30th.
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post #291 of 6233 Old 03-28-2010, 03:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HankTheTurtle View Post

OK. This may be an odd question, but have you used Netflix on your TV?

Thanks for the tip, Hank, but I have a C630, so no Netflix app.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FluxTZ View Post

Do you think the audio lagging could be fixed with a firmware update?

I hope so. I'm going to put a bug in Samsung's ear this evening.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NeronetFi View Post

Also wondering about the reports of lip synch issues. Is this when using the TV's speakers or only when using an AVR?

I want to say that I've also seen it with the TV speakers, but I'm mostly focused on the AVR at the moment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtiner View Post

I have not recently experienced a situation where video leads audio; that would definitely be uncorrectable with the delay adjustment in the television or A/V receiver.
If possible, try an off-air antenna and test the evening news on CBS/ABC/NBC and see if you experience the synchronization problem. If you see a problem with all networks/programs, disable the auto-motion plus and noise reduction features in the set and see if that fixes the problem. It's also common to have a loss of signal create a synch. problem in MPEG streams (satellite, off-air, DVD) that is remedied by flipping channels/pausing momentarily and letting the decoder re-synchronize. The Netflix streaming stuff is a mixed bag. I've watched some material that was O.K., and some that was encoded poorly. In fact, much of the SD stuff looks like it may be at half vertical resolution to reduce bandwidth required for streaming.
You may indeed have a hardware problem with your sets, but I don't believe there's an inherent problem with the 650.

The fact that I can get it in sync by switching to PCM on the stack tells me that they probably just need to adjust the timings to account for DD 5.1 decoding delay on the digital optical output. It's as if the video decoder in these units is too fast for its own good. Disabling AMP/NR features will in effect speed up the video, which unfortunately doesn't help me.

I'll test the TV speakers more extensively and also some different sources (take Comcast/Motorola out of the equation). Thanks for the thoughts and suggestions everyone.
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post #292 of 6233 Old 03-28-2010, 04:32 PM
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edit: I found the answer to my question
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post #293 of 6233 Old 03-28-2010, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HankTheTurtle View Post

Are you using the Auto Volume, or TruDialog features?

SRS TheaterSound = Amplify
SRS TruSurround HD = On
SRS TruDialog = On
Auto Volume = Normal

I next tried a known good HDMI cable from the Comcast box to the LCD. The audio fade is less noticable but still there. I'm not sure if the LCD has a problem and should I try an exchange with Amazon.
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post #294 of 6233 Old 03-28-2010, 09:05 PM
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Is it possible that these newer lcds (C630/C650) could have capacitor issues in the future or is this a thing of the past for Samsung.
Thanks
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post #295 of 6233 Old 03-28-2010, 09:14 PM
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got my LN46C630 on friday - LOVING it. S panel, fyi. minimal glare in my sunny room, i really feel i made the right choice. the set itself is beautiful, love the glass edges.

off-angle viewing is very impressive, there is no reason for complaints.

no audio sync issues.

what settings/customizations have people settled on?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kabouter View Post

Is the design of the c550 and the c630 the same?

do you mean physically, as in the base, frame, etc? i believe yes.
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post #296 of 6233 Old 03-28-2010, 11:14 PM
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I'd been checking out the 40C630 and Sony 40EX500 at my local BB a few times since they put it up, and kept thinking colors looked dull, blacks looked gray, and light was leaking pretty bad. The Sony 40EX500 looked miles better. But the 46C630 looked pretty good, and so I thought it might just be a bad floor model (along with perhaps bad settings) on the 40". But I was in today and noticed they'd taken the 40C630 down completely! Maybe they thought it didn't look good either. It looks like it's out of stock around St. Louis, so I guess they're waiting for a new one to use as a floor model.

Based on the single samples I saw, the EX500 was better in the 40" size. I couldn't really see much of a difference in the 46" size (just for comparison...I'm shopping for a bedroom and 40 is probably as big as I should go). I'm assuming that the difference between the Sammy C630 and Sony EX500 I saw in 40" was just due to a bad sample on the C630. Assuming that's so, how'd you guys decide to go with the C630 over the EX500? They seem nearly identical in features, price, and presumably overall quality. Was it brand loyalty, coin flip, or is there something differentiating them I'm not finding?
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post #297 of 6233 Old 03-29-2010, 01:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetcell View Post

do you mean physically, as in the base, frame, etc? i believe yes.

Yeah, I am also interested in the 46c630, but the press photo they are providing of it over here looks like the c650 (with the chin). I actually prefer the physical look of the c550, so that is good news.
But I guess that might just be a mistake, let's hope so. It also depends on the price though, the only shop that has it over here has it at the same price as the 46c6000, and if that remains the case I'd rather get the latter.
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post #298 of 6233 Old 03-29-2010, 01:54 AM
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C630 can play movies in .mkv .avi from LAN (DNLA function), who can test if .mkv file with DTS sound track plays ? Samung promised that 2010 models support DTS format. Thanks.
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post #299 of 6233 Old 03-29-2010, 03:33 AM
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Does anyone know what panel is in the 55C650 or if there is a panel lottery again?

Has the 55C650 solved the problems that were reported on so many B650's?

Can it compete with the B750?

Thanks
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post #300 of 6233 Old 03-29-2010, 05:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkrodgers View Post

I'd been checking out the 40C630 and Sony 40EX500 at my local BB a few times since they put it up, and kept thinking colors looked dull, blacks looked gray, and light was leaking pretty bad. The Sony 40EX500 looked miles better. But the 46C630 looked pretty good, and so I thought it might just be a bad floor model (along with perhaps bad settings) on the 40". But I was in today and noticed they'd taken the 40C630 down completely! Maybe they thought it didn't look good either. It looks like it's out of stock around St. Louis, so I guess they're waiting for a new one to use as a floor model.

Based on the single samples I saw, the EX500 was better in the 40" size. I couldn't really see much of a difference in the 46" size (just for comparison...I'm shopping for a bedroom and 40 is probably as big as I should go). I'm assuming that the difference between the Sammy C630 and Sony EX500 I saw in 40" was just due to a bad sample on the C630. Assuming that's so, how'd you guys decide to go with the C630 over the EX500? They seem nearly identical in features, price, and presumably overall quality. Was it brand loyalty, coin flip, or is there something differentiating them I'm not finding?

I've been cross-shopping the C630 vs EX500/501 as well (after almost getting a B630), but I haven't pounced yet, and won't until I see what LG has to offer in this space.

You didn't note which panel the 40C630 you were comparing had, but the ones I've seen all have AAxx panels, though some have mentioned receiving sets with SQxx panels.

Comparing the C630/AA vs the EX500, the latter clearly has a more subdued picture. The colors on the EX500 aren't as vivid, and the picture isn't as bright. On the flip side, I believe the EX500 has the edge in blacks, and the example I saw had better backlight uniformity. The differences aren't huge (say vs. comparing either to an LG with an S-IPS panel), and in isolation, the other would probably be soon forgotten.

I still believe that Samsung and Sony do a better job with motion handling compared to others like LG, but the latter may have made improvements for 2010. (They are reported to have instituted separate blur/judder controls on the 2010 models)

Picture wise, I'd be happy with either one.



In other respects, the C630 is a more fully-featured set.

It supports DLNA home media networking, whereas the EX500 does not.

The built-in removable media player also supports more file formats than the EX500.

The user interface is shared with Samsung's higher end models, and has a wider range of adjustments (including finer motion handling adjustments). The Sony has a simpler setup, compared to the PS3-like XMB interface that the higher-end Sonys get.

The remote, even though I believe it has regressed from the B630's, has more functions and I prefer its layout. The EX500's remote is simpler, but in a manner that suggests and reminds one that the 500 is closer to the bottom end than the high end of the line.

The Samsung has intelligent input sensing, and will skip those that aren't in use. (perhaps except for the PC input, unless they've fixed that for 2010)

The Sony, if it's like the V5100, will not, though it does have the channel labeling capability that the Samsung lacks.

Aesthetically, I prefer the styling of the Samsung, from the low-profile glass stand to the transparent effect of the bezel. The Sony is also an attractive set, and the gunmetal strip doesn't bother me as much as it does some.

The C630, now that is has a metal back cover, feels like it is more substantially constructed, and has a slimmer profile as well.

One advantage the Sony has it that the warehouse variant, the EX501, carries a 3-year warranty, though that is tempered by the practice that apparently dictates that only the 46" and larger models receive in-home service, while the 40" is a send-in and swap for a refurb. That is based on what others have reported here; the actual warranty terms are vague. I haven't seen the Samsung's warranty terms, but I believe that threshold for in-home service has been raised for 2010 in the industry as a whole. Panasonic has also disqualified their 2010 sets smaller than 46" from in-home service.

On the whole, I think there are little bits of polish and refinement that the Samsung has that the Sony does not. Some/all of it may or may not matter to you, but I don't discount anything.

The best part is, now that CCFL is considered old hat, the value of both sets is better than ever, and even at this early stage in their model lives, both cost only a little more than their predecessors at their deepest discounts.
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