4K desktop computer monitors: Why thearen't any? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 21 Old 03-19-2010, 01:41 AM - Thread Starter
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2K desktop computer monitors @1920x1080/@1920x1200 res are now cheap commodity products, and even some laptops with this res appeared. 2.5K monitors @2560x1600 are available either at 30" or 27" size.

The question is why there are no signs of a 4K desktop monitor @3840x2160 or @3840x2400 res?

Earlier, answer to this question was quite simple: 4K would be too hard to manufacture and hence exorbitantly expensive since the 2K was expensive. Market would be thus too limited to very exotic applications which would additionally put the price up. In the end the business case was too weak for 4K.

Today the situation is different. Judging from the current sizes, a 4K desktop monitor can be made within the size range of 34"-40" which is maximum that fits to a large desktop. There are of course at present no big manufacturing problems for making such monitors in quantities. No reason then why they could not be made within high-end, but still reasonable price level of few grands.

The field of potential applications is also greatly expanded: high res digital photography and 2K HD video are commonplace nowadays, high end 4K video is emerging.

Even the HDMI 1.4 connector is now ready with support for 4K and all kinds of fancy features.

Manufacturers are you listening: market for ultra high-end 4K desktop monitor is emerging.

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post #2 of 21 Old 03-19-2010, 06:13 AM
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I'm not sure what you mean by "emerging." Just because one person, or even a few people, would be interested in such a piece of equipment, if manufacturers don't see the potential for such an "emerging" market, then they are going to stick with products on which they can make a profit.
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post #3 of 21 Old 06-24-2011, 04:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Eizo has unveiled a new 36-inch PC monitor with a massive 4096x2160 pixel resolution.

Unfortunately the price is insane: The price is 2.88 million Yen or approximately 36,000 US dollars.

Let's hope this is just a start and with the availability of the panel other manufs will bring the price to sane levels. Anyway, perhaps this is marking beginning of a new milestone towards 4K res.

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post #4 of 21 Old 06-24-2011, 05:03 AM
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Sounds like they were listening. Unless your last name is Gates, Forbes, or Rockefeller, you'd better start saving now if you want one for home use.

At least it's a start.
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post #5 of 21 Old 06-24-2011, 06:02 AM
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I believe the market for 4K monitors is medical imaging which has software and "cameras" capable of generating 4K image content
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post #6 of 21 Old 06-24-2011, 06:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walford View Post

I believe the market for 4K monitors is medical imaging which has software and "cameras" capable of generating 4K image content

There is huge potential 4K market e.g. those who work with digital photography beyond point and shoot level, 4K is just 8 megapixels (in photo sensor terminology corresponds to something like 12 megapixels). Apart of this, professional editing, CAD/CAM, graphics design are ready to jump. Heck, diehard hot hardware lovers will be lining up too

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Originally Posted by BoilerJim View Post

Sounds like they were listening. Unless your last name is Gates, Forbes, or Rockefeller, you'd better start saving now if you want one for home use.
At least it's a start.

So now listen Eizo: Run and get the 4K@36" price to single hand digit grands asap, truckloads of money will drop on you .

P.S. With the 4K panel apparently being made by Sharp there is no problem with the economy of scale.

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post #7 of 21 Old 06-24-2011, 10:40 AM
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I'd assume them to be on the "professional" range, which is not available in display at some random electronics store.

Heck, Sony sells what.... 15"+ OLED monitors and 4k monitors as well. You obviously don't find those on the consumer level.
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post #8 of 21 Old 06-24-2011, 11:21 AM
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There is no problem with manufacturing these at all. I have a 1920 x 1080 laptop with an 18" screen and one with a 17" screen. It's patently clear you can make mid-30s 4k x 2k LCD panels trivially on existing lines. And video-card technology on modern PCs is more than sufficient to drive them.

They don't exist because the people that could make them don't believe there is much of a market. So there is the Eizo (a cutting edge company for 20+ years now) and not much else. If any monitor mfr. believes they will make money making more of these, they will come. They have concluded -- unlike you -- that demand is currently small or incremental profit is small.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #9 of 21 Old 06-24-2011, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

There is no problem with manufacturing these at all. I have a 1920 x 1080 laptop with an 18" screen and one with a 17" screen. It's patently clear you can make mid-30s 4k x 2k LCD panels trivially on existing lines. And video-card technology on modern PCs is more than sufficient to drive them.

They don't exist because the people that could make them don't believe there is much of a market. So there is the Eizo (a cutting edge company for 20+ years now) and not much else. If any monitor mfr. believes they will make money making more of these, they will come. They have concluded -- unlike you -- that demand is currently small or incremental profit is small.

Are you an experienced LCD screen design/manufacturing engineer as implied by your quote?
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post #10 of 21 Old 06-24-2011, 11:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Do-It-Yourself View Post

I'd assume them to be on the "professional" range, which is not available in display at some random electronics store.
Heck, Sony sells what.... 15"+ OLED monitors and 4k monitors as well. You obviously don't find those on the consumer level.

No, there were only some 4K displays available but at 50"+ they are too big as computer monitors. Eizo 36" is first of its kind.

I agree with rogo there are no essential problems in making affordable 4K monitors when one can buy mobile devices with quadHD 4" display. This implies it is possible to make 16" 4K displays with current tech.

The need for 4K monitors is now obvious. Every owner of decent digital camera and processing software knows that for displaying and processing pics present monitors are limited.

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post #11 of 21 Old 06-25-2011, 01:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walford View Post

Are you an experienced LCD screen design/manufacturing engineer as implied by your quote?

No, but the notion that disqualifies me from commenting intelligently on this topic is offensive, so I'm hoping that wasn't your intent.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #12 of 21 Old 06-25-2011, 07:07 PM
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Because no computer in the world could run Crysis at that resolution.

Must..find...technogoodies!!!!
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post #13 of 21 Old 06-25-2011, 09:06 PM
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You can take 2 or 3 1080P monitors and turn them sideways with some video cards now days too. Its a much cheaper solution.
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post #14 of 21 Old 06-25-2011, 10:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metroid View Post

Because no computer in the world could run Crysis at that resolution.

No worry, all pieces of this puzzle will be in place soon

Quote:
Originally Posted by edogg_23 View Post

You can take 2 or 3 1080P monitors and turn them sideways with some video cards now days too. Its a much cheaper solution.

Right guys, instead of dreaming 80" TVs buy 4x40" and enjoy

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post #15 of 21 Old 11-28-2012, 01:12 AM - Thread Starter
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post #16 of 21 Old 11-28-2012, 02:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irkuck View Post

There is coming light in this 4K tunnel smile.gif

Indeed, although I'm not sure what to make of 1500 units per month.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #17 of 21 Old 11-28-2012, 11:11 PM - Thread Starter
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^Not bad for the start. Hopefully LG and Sam are not far behind to put the price into a fast death spiral biggrin.gif. Altogether this looks to me much more significant than those 80+ 4K biggies.

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post #18 of 21 Old 11-28-2012, 11:34 PM
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you'd better start saving now if you want one for home use.
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post #19 of 21 Old 11-29-2012, 10:45 PM - Thread Starter
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First, this is in any case will be much worthier and bargain buy than the 84"no-content" sets. Second, prices should rocket down fast. Third, but not least, the biggest concern is Sharp won't go bust before releasing this 32" 4K beauty eek.gif.

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post #20 of 21 Old 12-22-2012, 12:18 PM
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The problem with any high resolution display is getting the process down, the easiest thing to do, and what you generally see is they either make such displays at very large sizes, like the 80 inch sets, this way they can use a current DPI standard and just make it bigger for more pixels, or they shoot for phones with the higher DPI but not higher resolution. They lest them hedge bets by being able to throw out many pieces that have dead pixels or fail for any number of reasons and still salvage some fully functional displays.

The problem for PC monitors is we get shafted right in the middle of that, so essentially we get everything dead last. High DPI goes to phones, high resolution goes to TVs. But on the other hand we do get some decent devices which strike a nice balance like the glut of 27 inch 2560x1440 monitors that can be had cheap.

The other problem that is coming to light is the fact that desktop monitors are becoming lower volume units. The fact is a ton of people just use laptops now, and many of them are even switching to tablets. So this means even if the display makers are capable of making say a 4k display at 30 inches, they might just feel they wont have enough volume to try it. The might just make that panel and cut it into 4 for 15 inch laptops. This is all the more reason that you should start thinking hard about the HTPC because their may come a day when its better to buy a TV than a desktop monitor.

We have seen this cycle of obsolete products happen over and over. The average consumer is not a video or audio phile, they dont know how to use a computer or game, they pretty much dont care about anything but, can I get on face book.

I would love to see 4k in a 32 inch I would think of it like a big bezeless eyefinity display. Of course we have yet to see how this will perform.
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post #21 of 21 Old 04-12-2013, 02:41 AM - Thread Starter
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It lasted for a while but finally the first 4K monitor is available: 4K@32" from Sharp. Though it seems there are some teething problems when trying to drive it at 60Hz, maybe due to the graphics adapter. Explanation of the problems: this is tiled monitor so it is not able to run @60Hz directly via single DisplayPort 1.2 cable - it uses Multi-Stream Transport which requires two cables connected to the monitor. This in turn may have issues with displaying single uniform 4K screen when used with some applications.

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