Official Samsung LNxxC630 Calibration/Settings Thread - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 800 Old 06-04-2010, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by skibum5000 View Post

Calibration Stuf....

Woo thanks! Will try these tonight. Always appreciated.
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post #92 of 800 Old 06-04-2010, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Faluzure View Post

Woo thanks! Will try these tonight. Always appreciated.

I will the PC mode one next week, probably. Don't expect it to match Rec709 though. I will be able to get the gamma and color temp fine but not the color space or saturation since they lock out those controls. To get that part matched I will make an ICC profile but only stuff like photoshop and MS Photo Viewer actually make use of those.

I will also try to do one very soon where i try to worry a bit less about exact primary shade of yellow,green and red and worry a bit more about maximum saturation that can be obtained for yellow, green and red (the settings above didn't entirely prioritize hue, but did lean that way for sure).
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post #93 of 800 Old 06-04-2010, 06:23 PM
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Tried the settings in post 90 for my PS3, and used Dark Knight to test. I know its for a more natural look, but to me it seems kind of greyish with no pop. Any suggestions to the brightness/contrast settings to liven it up just a little bit?

Setting black level to darker and gamma to +1 helped a little bit.
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post #94 of 800 Old 06-04-2010, 08:07 PM
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Ok, got settings Im happy with. First off thanks to skibum for posting what he did. Im using almost the exact color settings that he posted, and they look great.

Anyway, these settings have a tiny more pop, and little less red flesh tones (Harvey Dent up close in DK looked almost orange to start with). Colors and people look realistic. Citys and the scenary shots in Pirates Of The Carribean look nice and bright and colorfull.

Mode: Movie
Backlight: 8
Contrast: 94
Brightness: 47
Sharpness: 0
Color: 50
Tint: 52/48
Black Tone: Darker
Dynamic Contrast: Off
Shadow Detail: 0
Gamma: 1
Color Space: Custom
R 45,7,0
G 35,57,0
B 2,7,70
C 23,56,57
M 45,6,58
Y 54,53,0
White Balance:
Offsets: 27,22,22
Gains: 24,23,25
10pt White Balance:
1 8,10,8
2 0,2,2
3 -2,1,-2
4 -2,0,-5
5 1,1,-4
6 0,3,-4
7 1,5,-3
8 -1,3,-1
9 -2,1,-1
10 0,2,-2
Flesh Tone: 0
Edge Enhancement: Off
Warm2
DNR: Off
MPEG DNR: Off
Black Level: low
AMP: Off
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post #95 of 800 Old 06-05-2010, 07:31 AM
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how do i get rid of the bleeding from the corners "on dark screens", its real annoying, and i only thought that this was an issue with LED tv's, my tv is a samsung LN55C630 55''.
i think you guys also call it "flashlighting"
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post #96 of 800 Old 06-05-2010, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by schybrid View Post

how do i get rid of the bleeding from the corners "on dark screens", its real annoying, and i only thought that this was an issue with LED tv's, my tv is a samsung LN55C630 55''.
i think you guys also call it "flashlighting"

What is your backlight set to? I dont notice any on mine.
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post #97 of 800 Old 06-05-2010, 11:35 PM
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EVEN BETTER THAN BEFORE

These provide about 3300:1 contrast ratio on my set and give Power Function gamma 2.22 and 105 cd/m^2 (HCFR claims 4876:1 CR, gamma 2.25).
If you are willing to not care quite as much about 90-100% gamma curve (which isn't perfect anyway) you could sacrifce a trace of realism for closer to a 4000:1 CR by boosting contrast to 98. That would also very slightly toss off WB and the rest of the gamma curve as well but probably not by too horrifically much.

I have a feeling I could still tweak the very top end a touch to get a bit more CR.

This profile is less twisted.
It doesn't bend magenta saturation as much and it also lets red at 100% get much closer to the full sRGB saturation spec and has even more refined gamma.
I found that even though Calman defaults to testing the gamut at 75% for the way the color engine works in the C650 it is better to test it at 100%.

Mode: Movie
Backlight: 6
Contrast: 90
Brightness: 44
Sharpness: 0
Color: 51
Tint: 50/50
Eco: Off
Black Tone: Off
Dynamic Contrast: Off
Shadow Detail: 0 (I swear I don't notice any change, but perhaps I should measure and see what happens)
Gamma: 0
triads are all (R,G,B) below
Color Space: Custom
R 37,1,0
G 28,50,1
B 4,5,59
C 18,52,61
M 39,3,55
Y 50,50,1
White Balance:
Offsets: 28,23,23
Gains: 26,24,26
10pt WB and Gamma (this control is used to straighten out the kinks on the gamma curve every bit as much as it is to fine tune white balance) control:
1 8,10,8
2 0,2,2
3 -2,1,-2
4 -1,1,-4
5 -1,0,-5
6 -1,1,-6
7 0,3,-4
8 -4,0,-4
9 -1,2,-2
10 -1,3,1
Flesh Tone: 0
Edge Enhancement: Off (unless maybe watching under composite,component)
Warm2
Screen Fit
DNR: Off
MPEG DNR: Off
HDMI Black Level: Normal if you send it black=0-255=white material (most PC usage, but sometimes other things if they are set this way) and Low if you send it balck=16-235=white material (most set top boxes and stand alone players)
AMP: Off (although you certainly fiddle with it)


This was calibrated to a Power Function gamma curve of 2.22.












Yeah.... these look really good.
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post #98 of 800 Old 06-06-2010, 04:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skibum5000 View Post

EVEN BETTER THAN BEFORE


Yeah.... these look really good.


Ski,
Where did you get the patterns for those saturation points? Are these 0%, 30, 40 ,50, 60, 70, 80, 90 and 100% saturation?
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post #99 of 800 Old 06-06-2010, 05:49 AM
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Can anyone post some settings for AA panel please
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post #100 of 800 Old 06-06-2010, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knd View Post

Ski,
Where did you get the patterns for those saturation points? Are these 0%, 30, 40 ,50, 60, 70, 80, 90 and 100% saturation?

For saturation/saturation shift/saturation luminance it's closer to at 0%,12%,25%,38%,50%,62%,75%,87%,100% saturation. The bottom eight charts, which include those three, are are from Colormetre HCFR 2.0.1 and the top charts are all from Calman v3.7.

The Red, Blue and Magenta are around 4% undersaturated between 50% and around 95%??? but are pretty much perfect otherwise as are all the other primaries from 0-100%, well that is relative to measured primaries, compared to true sRGB primaries the max green and to a lesser extent yellow saturation are somewhat weak (and red a tiny bit so) but I don't think any non-wide gamut CCFL (other than Quatron, although these apparently messed up the CMS and actually get even less close to sRGB standard even though having added enough to have hit it fully) ever hits yellow or especially green fully, some of the LED ones might, so for a regular non-wide gamut CCFL only very few do better and these are really quite close (aside from max green saturation being to the point where it would be noticeably less than the true spec).

I think I might try to bump up all three (R,G,B) of the 10pt WB level 90% settings one notch since I think I slightly over-corrected for the gamma there.




I wonder if my settings are ideal for those who got SQ01 without striping or not (and of course there is general sample to sample variation so i'm sure many of the settings could easily be +/-1 set to set). I wonder if it is odd scanlines have more and even less green than they should and it averages out of if one pair simply has less than it should (or maybe it is more), in which case I would think my settings might not really quite match those SQ01 panels that do render all scanlines the same when a single color is displayed.

which gives me an idea, i should make solid rectangles of color and then remove all even scanlines from one set and all odd from the other and see how differently each set measures
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post #101 of 800 Old 06-07-2010, 06:06 AM
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Originally Posted by skibum5000 View Post

For saturation/saturation shift/saturation luminance it's closer to at 0%,12%,25%,38%,50%,62%,75%,87%,100% saturation. The bottom eight charts, which include those three, are are from Colormetre HCFR 2.0.1 and the top charts are all from Calman v3.7.

The Red, Blue and Magenta are around 4% undersaturated between 50% and around 95%??? but are pretty much perfect otherwise as are all the other primaries from 0-100%, well that is relative to measured primaries, compared to true sRGB primaries the max green and to a lesser extent yellow saturation are somewhat weak (and red a tiny bit so) but I don't think any non-wide gamut CCFL (other than Quatron, although these apparently messed up the CMS and actually get even less close to sRGB standard even though having added enough to have hit it fully) ever hits yellow or especially green fully, some of the LED ones might, so for a regular non-wide gamut CCFL only very few do better and these are really quite close (aside from max green saturation being to the point where it would be noticeably less than the true spec).

I think I might try to bump up all three (R,G,B) of the 10pt WB level 90% settings one notch since I think I slightly over-corrected for the gamma there.




I wonder if my settings are ideal for those who got SQ01 without striping or not (and of course there is general sample to sample variation so i'm sure many of the settings could easily be +/-1 set to set). I wonder if it is odd scanlines have more and even less green than they should and it averages out of if one pair simply has less than it should (or maybe it is more), in which case I would think my settings might not really quite match those SQ01 panels that do render all scanlines the same when a single color is displayed.

which gives me an idea, i should make solid rectangles of color and then remove all even scanlines from one set and all odd from the other and see how differently each set measures


Thanks Ski. One last question, you're only at about 30 FtL on this calibration. Are you in this range due to your local lighting requirements, or did you have to cut contrast and backlighting down to get the WB and gamma to behave? I'm thinking of getting this set, but will most likely like it to be brighter (probably around 40 FtL) and am curious if I could get the really good results you have at a higher FtL.

thanks.
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post #102 of 800 Old 06-07-2010, 03:19 PM
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Thanks for posting settings skibum, the smoothness and quality of picture is great, but i have a question for my situation. Im using a 46630 SQ01 using component cables for dish dvr and the only thing that annoys me is that compared to dynamic mode, movie mode seems to dark for me ( example: most colors especially white seeming like a whitish gray instead of a bright white and others are mis represented because of darkness)
Is this something that must be sacrificed for smoothness and colors or is there a way to give it more of that pop
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post #103 of 800 Old 06-07-2010, 09:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knd View Post

Thanks Ski. One last question, you're only at about 30 FtL on this calibration. Are you in this range due to your local lighting requirements, or did you have to cut contrast and backlighting down to get the WB and gamma to behave? I'm thinking of getting this set, but will most likely like it to be brighter (probably around 40 FtL) and am curious if I could get the really good results you have at a higher FtL.

thanks.

I often watch TV in a very dim to dark room. I prefer deep blacks. I find brighter settings rather blinding in a dark room.

100 cd/m^2 (=3.426* 30FL) is one fairly common dark room standard (the old black room CRT standard was actually only 80 cd/m^2; many calibrate LCD to 120 cd/m^2 although some like the dimmer 100 cd/m^2, especially for night time stuff).

I guess you prefer 140 which is even above the 120 cd/m^2 standard. I just find that too bright for my eyes in a dim room and it makes the letterbox areas or dark scenes not look as black.

Honestly, in a room with no lights on and just some out through the door and in the hall on for a little subdued backlighting I something find BL 6 and 100 too be a little bright even .
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post #104 of 800 Old 06-07-2010, 09:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tripp1n View Post

Thanks for posting settings skibum, the smoothness and quality of picture is great, but i have a question for my situation. Im using a 46630 SQ01 using component cables for dish dvr and the only thing that annoys me is that compared to dynamic mode, movie mode seems to dark for me ( example: most colors especially white seeming like a whitish gray instead of a bright white and others are mis represented because of darkness)
Is this something that must be sacrificed for smoothness and colors or is there a way to give it more of that pop

Well just in case you don't have it set so a dish dvr box most likely need HDMI Black Level to be set to Low.

I haven't calibrated component inputs, it's possible the set does things a little differently there and it is also possible that the dish dvr box might decide to fiddle with the output a little.

I really can't say.

Apparently a few people got 46" SQ01 with ">>" sub-pixels, if so that would be a different panel than mine.

Every set is a trace different.

It is possible that the striping on my set might average everythhing out to eb aiehter a little brighter or a little darker than a set without that.

Anyway if you have HDMI Black Level on Normal then that would definitely have a chance to explain almost all of it, so check that, make sure it is on Low for a set top box.
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post #105 of 800 Old 06-08-2010, 04:43 AM
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My Directv HD-DVR with HDMI has no option for RGB, so I cant adjust HDMI black level at all. Any changes I can do to the settings to make normal better?
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post #106 of 800 Old 06-08-2010, 04:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skibum5000 View Post

I often watch TV in a very dim to dark room. I prefer deep blacks. I find brighter settings rather blinding in a dark room.

100 cd/m^2 (=3.426* 30FL) is one fairly common dark room standard (the old black room CRT standard was actually only 80 cd/m^2; many calibrate LCD to 120 cd/m^2 although some like the dimmer 100 cd/m^2, especially for night time stuff).

I guess you prefer 140 which is even above the 120 cd/m^2 standard. I just find that too bright for my eyes in a dim room and it makes the letterbox areas or dark scenes not look as black.

Honestly, in a room with no lights on and just some out through the door and in the hall on for a little subdued backlighting I something find BL 6 and 100 too be a little bright even .

Sorry, I wasn't questioning why you had calibrated to the level you had, just whether the good results you have achieved could be met at a higher output. I own a Epson projector (6500), and to get good calibration results I have had to turn the contrast down quite a bit, which reduces the lumens, so on this projector you either have good cal results or higher lumens, but not both.

I just wanted your opinion as to whether your good results could be achieved with a higher light output.
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post #107 of 800 Old 06-08-2010, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tripp1n View Post

Thanks for posting settings skibum, the smoothness and quality of picture is great, but i have a question for my situation. Im using a 46630 SQ01 using component cables for dish dvr and the only thing that annoys me is that compared to dynamic mode, movie mode seems to dark for me ( example: most colors especially white seeming like a whitish gray instead of a bright white and others are mis represented because of darkness)
Is this something that must be sacrificed for smoothness and colors or is there a way to give it more of that pop

Try placing your Dynamic Contrast setting to "Low". It gives your tv just a bit extra "pop" without distorting the colors too much like Dynamic Mode.

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post #108 of 800 Old 06-08-2010, 12:47 PM
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thanks, yea hdmi black level is set to normal but dimmed out, so it doesnt give me option to change it??
i also tried setting dynamic contrast to low, anything above that distorts quality but it helped a little. Colors are just not rich or true because of darkness though, it might not work for my setup ( as well as panel possibly being different), hopefully i will upgrade my dish service to hd soon and i can really test these settings out though.
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post #109 of 800 Old 06-08-2010, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knd View Post

Sorry, I wasn't questioning why you had calibrated to the level you had, just whether the good results you have achieved could be met at a higher output. I own a Epson projector (6500), and to get good calibration results I have had to turn the contrast down quite a bit, which reduces the lumens, so on this projector you either have good cal results or higher lumens, but not both.

I just wanted your opinion as to whether your good results could be achieved with a higher light output.

if you raise the contrast setting to raise the lumens then the shades above 92% or so start to get even more wacky gamma response (although it's not necessarily all that noticeable; you can go to 98 contrast before actual out and out clipping and it raises CR from around 3400:1 to close around 3850:1ish I think)

you can also raise the backlight too i'm pretty sure you can get a good calibration at almost any backlight (maybe not super low like 0 or 1) but i haven't test it out too much; raising the backlight alters things a little bit but i'm pretty sure you could raise from 6 to say 14 and still calibrate to pretty similar effect (but that is just a a vague impression); some people have even said that some particular LCDs actually calibrate best at 130 cd/m^2 and up, so perhaps it would even help (on my pc monitor raising it from 100 to 140 made no difference in calin quality though)
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post #110 of 800 Old 06-08-2010, 03:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tripp1n View Post

thanks, yea hdmi black level is set to normal but dimmed out, so it doesnt give me option to change it??
i also tried setting dynamic contrast to low, anything above that distorts quality but it helped a little. Colors are just not rich or true because of darkness though, it might not work for my setup ( as well as panel possibly being different), hopefully i will upgrade my dish service to hd soon and i can really test these settings out though.

hard to say

maybe your set has a much different panel

the composite input might need a noticeably different calibration than HDMI/DVI

you may be very used to years of looking at sets 'calibrated' to have unnatural pop

maybe dish is fiddling with their component out

who knows
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post #111 of 800 Old 06-08-2010, 06:16 PM
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In picture mode. Why you guys are always taking Movie ?
I use Standard.

Is there a difference?
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post #112 of 800 Old 06-08-2010, 07:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Resident_Lisa View Post

In picture mode. Why you guys are always taking Movie ?
I use Standard.

Is there a difference?

Yes. Movie mode seems to be easier for calibrators to get to the standard. Movie mode is supposed to be for watching in a darkened room, so the brightness settings are reduced, improving the black level. It also completely deactivates any Dynamic Contrast, leaving that up to you to set, which most people prefer.

Standard Mode has an increased brightness level, so the blacks look more grey in that mode. However due to the increased brightness, whites may appear whiter in that mode. You can calibrate both Standard and Movie mode and use Standard for daytime viewing and movie for nightime (thats actually what you are supposed to use them for)

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post #113 of 800 Old 06-08-2010, 10:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Resident_Lisa View Post

In picture mode. Why you guys are always taking Movie ?
I use Standard.

Is there a difference?

Among other reasons there is no 10pt WB/gamma control in Standard mode which is pretty huge! There is no way at all to even get a smooth gamma curve in Standard mode.

It's supposed to be hard to defeat the last little bit of dynamic contrast mode in Standard, apparently it still does a little even on Off.
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post #114 of 800 Old 06-09-2010, 04:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skibum5000 View Post

if you raise the contrast setting to raise the lumens then the shades above 92% or so start to get even more wacky gamma response (although it's not necessarily all that noticeable; you can go to 98 contrast before actual out and out clipping and it raises CR from around 3400:1 to close around 3850:1ish I think)

you can also raise the backlight too i'm pretty sure you can get a good calibration at almost any backlight (maybe not super low like 0 or 1) but i haven't test it out too much; raising the backlight alters things a little bit but i'm pretty sure you could raise from 6 to say 14 and still calibrate to pretty similar effect (but that is just a a vague impression); some people have even said that some particular LCDs actually calibrate best at 130 cd/m^2 and up, so perhaps it would even help (on my pc monitor raising it from 100 to 140 made no difference in calin quality though)


Thanks.
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post #115 of 800 Old 06-09-2010, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wjprent View Post

I appreciate having this forum to compare notes on calibration. I've had the set for about 3 weeks now, tried a few different setting. Overall I love the picture, I can tell the step up from my 40A630 in the bedroom. The black level on this is great.

So someone posted a professional review on the owners thread from a UK site, and in the discussion at the end, the reviewer lists his calibration settings. I tried them last night and found them to be the BEST I have seen so far. They were for the C650, but they are perfect on my C630. BTY I have a SQ01 panel.

Here are the settings:
Picture Mode: MOVIE
Backlight: 4 (to achieve ~115 cd/m2 peak luminance - set this according to your viewing environment)
Contrast: 94
Brightness: 44
Sharpness: 0 for HD content, 20-30 for SD
Colour: 48
Tint: Neutral (50/50)
Advanced:
Black Tone: Off
Dynamic Contrast: Off
Shadow Detail: 0
Gamma: +1
Colour Space: Custom (see settings below)
Flesh Tone: 0
Edge Enhancer: Off
CMS Settings (R / G / B):
Red: 50 0 0
Green: 25 55 0
Blue: 0 14 71
Yellow: 52 52 0
Cyan: 24 52 54
Magenta: 43 9 55
White Balance:
Offset (R,G,B): 28, 25, 24
Gain (R,G,B): 19, 26, 24
10p White Balance: ON
Interval 1 (R,G,B): 2 0 0
2: 0 0 -1
3: 0 0 -1
4: -1 0 -1
5: 0 0 0
6: 1 0 0
7: 0 0 -1
8: 0 1 -2
9: 0 2 -2
10: 0 2 -3
Picture Options screen:
Colour Tone: Warm2
Aspect Ratio: Screen Fit for 1080i/1080p, according to source otherwise
Digital Noise Filter: Off
MPEG Noise Filter: Off
HDMI Black Level: depends on source, Low for video devices
Film Mode: Auto 1 or Auto 2 depending on content
Motion Plus: Custom, Blur Reduction: 10, Judder Reduction: 0

Give them a try, I would like to know what others think.

Bill

This is probably a dumb question but how do you get HDMI Black Level to Low, its always grayed out on Normal on all of the HDMI sources?
Also, Film mode is grayed out on all sources except HDMI1, which is my directv HDDVR receiver. My blu ray player is on HDMI2 and film mode is grayed out on OFF. Any suggestions?
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post #116 of 800 Old 06-09-2010, 08:33 PM
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I tried those setting and I dont like them...
Weard. The Natural setting is more attractive to me.

Im I doing something wrong?
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post #117 of 800 Old 06-10-2010, 04:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Resident_Lisa View Post

I tried those setting and I dont like them...
Weard. The Natural setting is more attractive to me.

Im I doing something wrong?

Not at all. Every TV is different and you have about a 1% chance of someone else's settings working on your display. This is why ISF calibrators exist and it is why enthusiasts like myself are willing to spend a grand or so on a descent colorimeter and software.

Try this for starters. Don't go into the service menu because you'll probably get yourself into trouble as well as voiding your warrantee. In the user menu, select movie mode and turn off all of the automatic functions. Set warm 1, contrast around 95, brightness 45, color 35-45 and see how that looks to you. Vary the back light according to viewing conditions but don't go over about ten at night and 20 during daylight.

It will "look" like the color is set too low. Give it a day or two and get used to it. The bright colorful stuff found in the dynamic mode is totally unrealistic and once you get away from it you'll never go back.

Buzz

Buzz
THX Certified Video Calibrator

 

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post #118 of 800 Old 06-10-2010, 06:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

It will "look" like the color is set too low. Give it a day or two and get used to it. The bright colorful stuff found in the dynamic mode is totally unrealistic and once you get away from it you'll never go back.

Buzz

So true. I used to like the Dynamic/Standard mode because it was bright & colorful but after calibrating it, I don't like it anymore. It's like looking at a solar flare... bright & pretty, but burns my eyeballs if I look at it too long.
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post #119 of 800 Old 06-10-2010, 06:42 AM
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Does anyone know how to change the HDMI Black Level from Normal to Low? Mine is always grayed out on all HDMI Inputs and all Picture settings. I have the 46C650 and AA02 Panel.
Thanks
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post #120 of 800 Old 06-10-2010, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Hogfan2502 View Post

Does anyone know how to change the HDMI Black Level from Normal to Low? Mine is always grayed out on all HDMI Inputs and all Picture settings. I have the 46C650 and AA02 Panel.
Thanks

You cant change the HDMI BL unless you have an RGB source. Check your player's settings to see if you can change it to RGB.
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