Does this sound like a bad panel or not? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 20 Old 04-28-2010, 07:29 AM - Thread Starter
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My KDL-52W3000 started getting 'double vision' about 2 weeks ago. After 20 minutes of operation it develops........lasts for about 10-15 minutes.........then works fine?!

It's 2 years old (no ext. warranty) and of course Sony can't/won't help. An auth. Sony repair tech came out and told me it was a bad panel. Cost to repair = $3K ! I paid about $2400 2 years ago, so that's not an option.

Could this problem be caused by something other than a bad panel?
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post #2 of 20 Old 04-28-2010, 01:48 PM
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That Sony probably uses the dreaded TAB process to feed signals from T-CON board to LCD panel. If that is the case, DEMAND replacement from Sony because it is a know problem. Idiots decided to use and stick to a technology that is flawed by design.

Search for TAB bond on these forums to find out more on how to “repair” the problem… how to get the TV going for a bit longer…

Here's a universal guide on how to check the TV's for problems… starting points:

Trace the signal chain from either LCD panel back towards the AV processor board, or trace the signal path from the AV processor board towards LCD panel. Whatever works for you and whatever you feel more comfortable with.

In your case I think you may have faulty T-CON board. However, to narrow down the cause of the problem:

1. Check the power supply for obvious signs of burning, discoloration and bulged capacitors. If you have multimeter, measure the voltages at various connectors to see if they are correct (voltage rails ratings are usually printed on components’ side of the PCB).

2. Check the connectors between T-CON board and LCD panel. Remove the ribbon cables and clean all contacts. Use hard pencil rubber and clean the exposed copper contacts until they are shiny again. Re-assemble everything and turn ON the TV.

3. If you see TAB being utilised on your particular LCD panel, re-apply the pressure on bonds’ area and see if the picture restores to normal. If it does, try to use something (rubber or soft plastic strip) that will put the pressure on bonds’ area once you close the TV…. and never but TV that utilises TAB process to feed the signals from T-CON to LCD panel.

4. Remove the cables between AV processor board and T-CON board and clean them well. See if that fixes the problem.

5. If you are still getting the same problem -> replace the T-CON board.

Do I need to warn you about lethal voltages inside the TV?


Boky
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post #3 of 20 Old 04-28-2010, 10:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Extreme_Boky View Post

That Sony probably uses the dreaded TAB process to feed signals from T-CON board to LCD panel. If that is the case, DEMAND replacement from Sony because it is a know problem. Idiots decided to use and stick to a technology that is flawed by design.

Search for TAB bond on these forums to find out more on how to “repair” the problem… how to get the TV going for a bit longer…

Here's a universal guide on how to check the TV's for problems… starting points:

Trace the signal chain from either LCD panel back towards the AV processor board, or trace the signal path from the AV processor board towards LCD panel. Whatever works for you and whatever you feel more comfortable with.

In your case I think you may have faulty T-CON board. However, to narrow down the cause of the problem:

1. Check the power supply for obvious signs of burning, discoloration and bulged capacitors. If you have multimeter, measure the voltages at various connectors to see if they are correct (voltage rails ratings are usually printed on components’ side of the PCB).

2. Check the connectors between T-CON board and LCD panel. Remove the ribbon cables and clean all contacts. Use hard pencil rubber and clean the exposed copper contacts until they are shiny again. Re-assemble everything and turn ON the TV.

3. If you see TAB being utilised on your particular LCD panel, re-apply the pressure on bonds’ area and see if the picture restores to normal. If it does, try to use something (rubber or soft plastic strip) that will put the pressure on bonds’ area once you close the TV…. and never but TV that utilises TAB process to feed the signals from T-CON to LCD panel.

4. Remove the cables between AV processor board and T-CON board and clean them well. See if that fixes the problem.

5. If you are still getting the same problem -> replace the T-CON board.

Do I need to warn you about lethal voltages inside the TV?


Boky

Stop posting here. It is obvious that you have no clue on how to troubleshoot televisions. What the heck do voltages have to do with ghosting images on a panel? You always advise people to clean this and cleant that. None of your "advice" will help this person. He has a bad panel. End of story.

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post #4 of 20 Old 04-29-2010, 03:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by display veteran View Post

Stop posting here. It is obvious that you have no clue on how to troubleshoot televisions. What the heck do voltages have to do with ghosting images on a panel? You always advise people to clean this and cleant that. None of your "advice" will help this person. He has a bad panel. End of story.

The only TV's you can remotely be successful in fixing are Sony TV because you've been working with them. In this thread http:////www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/sho...5#post17002235 you dragged people over and over misleading them, where I suggested straight away to replace the T-CON board, so you can’t even suggest the proper fix for your filed of expertise….

However, I did not say to you: “stop posting here… it is a T-CON problem – end of story”, didn’t I? You can’t even give a proper suggestion for Sony TV’s…

I have already mentioned to you before that your knowledge in electronics is far behind mine.

And again…. you took my post and completely disregarded the content. I did suggest to knees to try to get replacement TV because of idiots at Sony selling thousands of TV's with flawed technology - case for court no doubt. So I stated clearly it was the faulty panel.

I also thought that some extra info could be of use to knees. He could get that LCD TV going for a fair bit longer if he follows my suggestions. Repair is out of question – 3K (!!), so why not mention ways of getting the TV going for another year? I don’t understand why my fault finding guide is irritating you. You should be the first to read it and use it. I am doing you a favour here, so you should be thankful instead of being really unpleasant and rude.

You see, you call the problem “panel problem” where I call it “serious manufacturing flaw”. It should be replaced by Sony even if the TV is out of warranty. In other thread you replied to me rudely that all TV’s use TAB process. I mentioned to you in the same thread that was wrong– but without being rude and unpleasant.

Boky
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post #5 of 20 Old 05-04-2010, 09:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Extreme_Boky View Post

The only TV's you can remotely be successful in fixing are Sony TV because you've been working with them. In this thread http:////www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/sho...5#post17002235 you dragged people over and over misleading them, where I suggested straight away to replace the T-CON board, so you can't even suggest the proper fix for your filed of expertise.

However, I did not say to you: stop posting here it is a T-CON problem - end of story, didn't I? You can't even give a proper suggestion for Sony TV's

I have already mentioned to you before that your knowledge in electronics is far behind mine.

And again. you took my post and completely disregarded the content. I did suggest to knees to try to get replacement TV because of idiots at Sony selling thousands of TV's with flawed technology - case for court no doubt. So I stated clearly it was the faulty panel.

I also thought that some extra info could be of use to knees. He could get that LCD TV going for a fair bit longer if he follows my suggestions. Repair is out of question - 3K (!!), so why not mention ways of getting the TV going for another year? I don't understand why my fault finding guide is irritating you. You should be the first to read it and use it. I am doing you a favour here, so you should be thankful instead of being really unpleasant and rude.

You see, you call the problem panel problem where I call it serious manufacturing flaw. It should be replaced by Sony even if the TV is out of warranty. In other thread you replied to me rudely that all TV's use TAB process. I mentioned to you in the same thread that was wrong- but without being rude and unpleasant.

Boky

You keep telling people to check this voltage and clean this and clean that. You are clearly stuck in the 70's when it comes to troubleshooting television. I've seen your posts giving advice to folks about panel backlighting and you are clueless as to how the different backlighting schemes function.

To make things even worse you paste a link about a TCON issue on the XBR4/5 models and use that one link to try and discredit me. That failure pointed to a video processor failure since TCON circuits almost never give this symptom. That is why the video processor board was suggested first. I have over 1000 pictures of TCON failures and none of them even come close to what they were experiencing. They are experiencing an unusual symptom of a TCON failure and I moved forward to help them resolve it.

You hate Sony and it is quite evident in your past responses. I have received quite a few PM's asking for my help because they do not believe your advice. I stand my ground. I've worked on thousands of LCD display devices. You have not. Stop interjecting your useless opinions. I'll take you on the service bench any time, any day. Sorry to be so crude but you should have worked together with me in the beginning.

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post #6 of 20 Old 05-05-2010, 06:24 AM
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You did not resolve it... I did, straight away in link #2.

Why?

Because there is more to electronics than repairing Sony TV’s.

Your comment that fault was unusual and that you were going to promptly document it and “put it in book of records” clearly shows your brain will never know what lateral approach to solving the problem is…

If you manage to calm down and read my post… you may even learn something…

Boky
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post #7 of 20 Old 05-23-2010, 09:28 AM
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I have the double vision stuff on my panel...I can bang the back of the LCD Panel and it goes away. I seriously doubt it is a bad panel. I'm going to resist the spanking the bad panel to make it good comment!

Anyways...Check the photo. This is what I plan to replace first in my troubleshoot efforts.

FYI- I'll never buy a Sony TV again, even if they cost next to nothing.
LL
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post #8 of 20 Old 05-23-2010, 09:59 AM
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thats the power supply, i've never heard of a power supply causing "double vision" on a TV before

bad power supplies are very common on many LCD TV's esp samsung's but when that is the problem the TV would give you a hard time turning on at first but then eventually turn on. or turn on and then off after awhile of use etc. the power supply literally does nothing that could produce a messed up image on an LCD TV.

think of it like the power supply being the same thing as your car's battery and charging system, if either the alternator or battery goes bad it becomes very hard to start your car or keep it running and most of the time it just wont work. its the same thing with the power supply

it would be great if you could post a photo of what the TV looks like when its on and malfunctioning, the fact that it goes back to normal when you hit the back of the TV leads me to believe like boky above said it could be a bad tab bond or bad connection at the TCON or Mainboard

a picture is worth a thousand words though and if you could provide us with one of what this "double vision" looks like i'm sure we will all be able to help you more

If you're a gamer or interested in using an LCD TV as a primary monitor take a look at my thread on Input Lag
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post #9 of 20 Old 05-24-2010, 11:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake-AZ View Post

I have the double vision stuff on my panel...I can bang the back of the LCD Panel and it goes away. I seriously doubt it is a bad panel. I'm going to resist the spanking the bad panel to make it good comment!

Anyways...Check the photo. This is what I plan to replace first in my troubleshoot efforts.

FYI- I'll never buy a Sony TV again, even if they cost next to nothing.

You bang on the panel and it goes away? That is a classic panel failure. Of course, you can use Bokey's advice and go for the power supply board since no panels other than Sony use the tab bonding method.

I'm dying to see how one gets the flexible circuit board from the TCON to the panel without bonding it to the panel. Please enlighten me because all of the other manufacturers seem to be doing it wrong.

Those who think they know everything annoy those of us who do.
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post #10 of 20 Old 05-24-2010, 11:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Extreme_Boky View Post

You did not resolve it... I did, straight away in link #2.

Why?

Because there is more to electronics than repairing Sony TV's.

Your comment that fault was unusual and that you were going to promptly document it and put it in book of records clearly shows your brain will never know what lateral approach to solving the problem is

If you manage to calm down and read my post you may even learn something

Boky

I did win a beer from a friend of mine because I told him that you would bring that one instance where you had a 50/50 chance of guessing the cause and use it as an example of your "expertise" and that you would pat yourself on the back because of it.

Those who think they know everything annoy those of us who do.
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post #11 of 20 Old 05-25-2010, 12:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by display veteran View Post

I did win a beer from a friend of mine because I told him that you would bring that one instance where you had a 50/50 chance of guessing the cause and use it as an example of your "expertise" and that you would pat yourself on the back because of it.

it wasn't a 50/50 chance... it was, as you mentioned, expertise!
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post #12 of 20 Old 05-25-2010, 11:40 PM
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This is really fun. Notice that expertice was in quote marks. Calm down or you will end up popping a vein in your head.

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post #13 of 20 Old 06-14-2010, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Extreme_Boky View Post




3. If you see TAB being utilised on your particular LCD panel, re-apply the pressure on bonds’ area and see if the picture restores to normal. If it does, try to use something (rubber or soft plastic strip) that will put the pressure on bonds’ area once you close the TV…. and never but TV that utilises TAB process to feed the signals from T-CON to LCD panel.






Boky

Hi...I posted my Vizio problem on another awhile back. I've since learned from another forum that the problem was a "connector bonding" issue with the panel.

I was advised to apply pressure to the panel to see if that cleared it up, and it has been working. I would like a little more permanent solution and noticed you mentioned something about putting a "rubber or soft plastic strip"
on the bond's area? Could you elaborate a bit more on how to do that?

Vizio VW46LFHDTV20A
LL
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post #14 of 20 Old 07-13-2010, 09:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Still no resolution from Sony. TV works sometimes. I've since found out that Sony actually recalled this TV because of KNOWN BAD PANELS! But the recall expired in January of 2009?! WTF? Anybody have any contacts at Sony they can point me to who might still honor this known problem? That's really crappy customer service IMO.
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post #15 of 20 Old 07-14-2010, 05:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Here's what my picture looks like:
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post #16 of 20 Old 07-14-2010, 06:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Extreme_Boky View Post

That Sony probably uses the dreaded TAB process to feed signals from T-CON board to LCD panel. If that is the case, DEMAND replacement from Sony because it is a know problem. Idiots decided to use and stick to a technology that is flawed by design.

Search for TAB bond on these forums to find out more on how to repair the problem how to get the TV going for a bit longer

Here's a universal guide on how to check the TV's for problems starting points:

Trace the signal chain from either LCD panel back towards the AV processor board, or trace the signal path from the AV processor board towards LCD panel. Whatever works for you and whatever you feel more comfortable with.

In your case I think you may have faulty T-CON board. However, to narrow down the cause of the problem:

1. Check the power supply for obvious signs of burning, discoloration and bulged capacitors. If you have multimeter, measure the voltages at various connectors to see if they are correct (voltage rails ratings are usually printed on components' side of the PCB).

2. Check the connectors between T-CON board and LCD panel. Remove the ribbon cables and clean all contacts. Use hard pencil rubber and clean the exposed copper contacts until they are shiny again. Re-assemble everything and turn ON the TV.

3. If you see TAB being utilised on your particular LCD panel, re-apply the pressure on bonds' area and see if the picture restores to normal. If it does, try to use something (rubber or soft plastic strip) that will put the pressure on bonds' area once you close the TV. and never but TV that utilises TAB process to feed the signals from T-CON to LCD panel.

4. Remove the cables between AV processor board and T-CON board and clean them well. See if that fixes the problem.

5. If you are still getting the same problem -> replace the T-CON board.

Do I need to warn you about lethal voltages inside the TV?


Boky

As someone who has to diagnose and fix equipment everyday, I found this to be a simple and straightforward guide to help the guy with the issue. Of course not everybody thinks like this and not everybody has the proper skills to do this.
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post #17 of 20 Old 08-10-2010, 12:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Well the best I can get out of Sony is an offer to buy another TV from them at a discount.

So the question is, what's a great bottom dollar price on a KDL 52NX800?
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post #18 of 20 Old 09-16-2010, 01:13 PM
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I also have a sony LCD "52w4100" that a repair tech said the lcd panel was bad. $3500 to fix it. It will work sometimes just fine and other times it will not. The problem is only on the bottom half of the screen, it is a little darker than the top and there is a little ghosting affect going on, mostly in the bottom right corner. I can email you guys pictures if you want. Any help would be great.. tell me what you both think.

The tech first said it was the tcon board but we tried replacing that and it didnt fix the issue... We found out later that the TV works just fine sometimes, dont know if that would have changed the guys mind on the LCD panel being bad.
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post #19 of 20 Old 09-17-2010, 12:18 AM
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The photos attached describe the TAB problem between T-CON extension PCB and LCD substrate. Applying the pressure on loose bonds/connections could fix the problem... the subject was covered extensively probably around 6 months ago, so search the threads for TAB and problem

Good luck

Boky
LL
LL
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post #20 of 20 Old 09-06-2013, 06:33 PM
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i have the same problem im changing out the t-con.when i first turn mine on it will have double image and lines but hten after it got warm it went away so i was told to change the t-con
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