Lip Sync and Vizio - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 57 Old 05-23-2010, 10:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi everyone,
There are a ton of lip sync threads and I couldn't find a simplified answer for this.

I have a Vizio M470 that is connected via HDMI directly to my Dish HD DVR.
I've noticed some serious lip sync issues recently. You can hear the word spoken and at the end of the word you see it being spoken on the display.

I know the Vizio has a lip sync adjustment in the menu but playing with it doesn't effect much. I'm wondering if there's another setting or adjustment I can make?

If this has been adressed in another thread please post the link. I couldn't find it.
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post #2 of 57 Old 05-24-2010, 12:44 AM
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you bought a Vizio and its got sync problems.

next time buy something better than a vizio and you will not have these problems..


the problem is created by the TV and its supposed to be compensated by the TV via delaying the audio output because the TV is delaying the video output by processing the signal.

the only fix i can offer you is to buy a stereo receiver that can delay the audio output to match the TV and this may not even fix it.

the sure fire way to fix it is to get another TV that does not have this problem.

If you're a gamer or interested in using an LCD TV as a primary monitor take a look at my thread on Input Lag
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post #3 of 57 Old 05-24-2010, 03:07 AM
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Leesrt, have you tried calling Vizio directly or Dish for the DVR? Judging by the sounds of it, you're only going to be ridiculed here by a so-called specialist for your choice of purchase.

I've owned several Vizio TVs and have never had an issue with the brand in the past regarding audio issues. There is a single instance I remember having a slight audio delay on DVD, but it became apparent it was the disc itself as it only happened for a short moment during the middle of the movie and the video was also locking up.. most likely a disc defect/dirt related issue.

Being that you mention it is recent, I am curious as to what other lip sync issues you can re-create from other devices, if at all (from DVD or Blu-Ray perhaps). Is the video live or is it playback from recording?

It's possible the DVR itself could be creating audio lag during recording for some strange reason... if it's only from the DVR, I would suggest seeking a way to re-initialize the unit and see if that can correct the issue. Please post your results...
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post #4 of 57 Old 05-24-2010, 05:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frito View Post

you bought a Vizio and its got sync problems.

next time buy something better than a vizio and you will not have these problems..


the problem is created by the TV and its supposed to be compensated by the TV via delaying the audio output because the TV is delaying the video output by processing the signal.

the only fix i can offer you is to buy a stereo receiver that can delay the audio output to match the TV and this may not even fix it.

the sure fire way to fix it is to get another TV that does not have this problem.

I don't believe that the TV is the issue.

It's more than likely the provider.

I have Directv as well as a good friend who is an EE and is an expert in RF engineering. We were having many issues with lipsync, so he spoke to both Directv and the local stations. The problem is that the 5.1 audio stream is sent separately from the picture. Since they are independent of each other, it's easy for the two to not sync. Supossedly they were working on a solution at the time, but I have not heard anything new.

I have not noticed as many issues with Directv lately though.
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post #5 of 57 Old 05-24-2010, 05:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frito View Post

you bought a Vizio and its got sync problems.

next time buy something better than a vizio and you will not have these problems..


the problem is created by the TV and its supposed to be compensated by the TV via delaying the audio output because the TV is delaying the video output by processing the signal.

the only fix i can offer you is to buy a stereo receiver that can delay the audio output to match the TV and this may not even fix it.

the sure fire way to fix it is to get another TV that does not have this problem.

Bash Bash Bash.

WAP 16.

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post #6 of 57 Old 05-24-2010, 06:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frito View Post

you bought a Vizio and its got sync problems.

next time buy something better than a vizio and you will not have these problems..


the problem is created by the TV and its supposed to be compensated by the TV via delaying the audio output because the TV is delaying the video output by processing the signal.

the only fix i can offer you is to buy a stereo receiver that can delay the audio output to match the TV and this may not even fix it.

the sure fire way to fix it is to get another TV that does not have this problem.

From what I understand of the forum rules, the Moderator should get involved with this response.

I too have a Vizio. The issue is not the TV, it's the source. Some channels have a slight lipsync issue. Other channels have not issues at all.

Also, if you'll bother reading some of the other posts, you'll find non Vizio products also have the issue. Vizio is one of the few which offer a built in solution. So, Vizio is ahead of the curve.
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post #7 of 57 Old 05-24-2010, 06:45 AM
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The Lip-Sync adjustment in my Vizio corrected sync problems within the TV itself caused by it's video processing time
However, I often have separate Lip-sync problems caused by local HD stations when they show live upscaled SD content from another station or from their network host location. These delays are not caused by my cable PVR tuner or by my TV.
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post #8 of 57 Old 05-24-2010, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hauptm View Post

From what I understand of the forum rules, the Moderator should get involved with this response.

I too have a Vizio. The issue is not the TV, it's the source. Some channels have a slight lipsync issue. Other channels have not issues at all.

Also, if you'll bother reading some of the other posts, you'll find non Vizio products also have the issue. Vizio is one of the few which offer a built in solution. So, Vizio is ahead of the curve.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cawgijoe View Post

I don't believe that the TV is the issue.

It's more than likely the provider.

I have Directv as well as a good friend who is an EE and is an expert in RF engineering. We were having many issues with lipsync, so he spoke to both Directv and the local stations. The problem is that the 5.1 audio stream is sent separately from the picture. Since they are independent of each other, it's easy for the two to not sync. Supossedly they were working on a solution at the time, but I have not heard anything new.

I have not noticed as many issues with Directv lately though.

sorry, the OP made it sound like it always happens to him now leading me to think that it was a new problem that cropped up and he could not fix it.

i can see and have heard of some channels on sat getting out of lip sync and i have even seen it happen on cable once or twice on our own TV's but it was so out of sync it was blatantly obvious it was the channel plus when i switched to another channel it was fine.

so to the OP have you tried other video sources or channels to see if its your TV or your SAT box/service?

I'm not trying to bash vizio, they do make decent budget TV's but these days all of the major brands have decent budget TV's

I will easily still recommend them over many other brands like BB store brands and the other crappy walmart brands etc.

If you're a gamer or interested in using an LCD TV as a primary monitor take a look at my thread on Input Lag
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post #9 of 57 Old 05-24-2010, 08:21 AM
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I've owned some older Vizios that definately had delay issues and were returned for those & other minor issues. Their newer sets seem to have resolved these issues. But the fact remains that Vizio does not design & engineer their own sets, this leaves them open to issues just like this. Buy a tier 1 set and you will in general be less prone to be subject to naggling things like this.
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post #10 of 57 Old 05-24-2010, 08:50 AM
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Anecdotal evidence only, but I watched a lot of baseball this past weekend, and during one game (Nats/O's on MASN via FIOS), I noticed that I could hear the fastball whack the catcher's mitt a split second before the ball arrived there on screen. Other games on other channels going on at the same time showed no such lag (video lag, in this case). To me, this meant that the problem was with the feed or the provider, and not with my TV (a Vizio SV472XVT). I've never noticed any lip sync issues with my tv.
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post #11 of 57 Old 05-24-2010, 11:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frito View Post

sorry, the OP made it sound like it always happens to him now leading me to think that it was a new problem that cropped up and he could not fix it.

i can see and have heard of some channels on sat getting out of lip sync and i have even seen it happen on cable once or twice on our own TV's but it was so out of sync it was blatantly obvious it was the channel plus when i switched to another channel it was fine.

so to the OP have you tried other video sources or channels to see if its your TV or your SAT box/service?

I'm not trying to bash vizio, they do make decent budget TV's but these days all of the major brands have decent budget TV's

I will easily still recommend them over many other brands like BB store brands and the other crappy walmart brands etc.

It doesn't matter how it sounded, whether it was new or not. How does that invite you to start a this brand is better than yours post.

By that comment alone I wouldn't take your advice on anything because if you had half a clue you'd see that the other top brands (Samsung, Sony, Panny, etc...) all have hundreds of threads on lip sync issues.

My question was meant more for those who have experience with Vizio setting or in this case, the DVR settings.

I didn't think it would be the DVR but based on what I'm hearing it may be the source. I'll do some troubleshooting and narrow it down.

By the way, I didn't contact Vizio yet because I wanted to see if it's something simple I'm overlooking first.

My lip sync issue is with live TV and mainly with the news stations where you have to watch their lips moving the whole time. My DVD player is direct HDMI as well and it has no sync issues. I guess that kind of trouble shot the problem right there. I'll call dish and see if they have a solution. I hate calling dish because unlike Vizio, you'll have to be on the phone for an hour to finally reach someone competent and english speaking.
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post #12 of 57 Old 05-25-2010, 12:04 AM
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judging by your more detailed information you have provided it definitely sounds like its dish network and/or you sat receivers problem rather than your TV.

i'm sorry i posted a hasty post when slightly inebriated and you did have a lack of information in the original post leading me to think that this happened on your TV all the time regardless of the input device. my mistake.

If you're a gamer or interested in using an LCD TV as a primary monitor take a look at my thread on Input Lag
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post #13 of 57 Old 05-25-2010, 05:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GGG View Post

I've owned some older Vizios that definately had delay issues and were returned for those & other minor issues. Their newer sets seem to have resolved these issues. But the fact remains that Vizio does not design & engineer their own sets, this leaves them open to issues just like this. Buy a tier 1 set and you will in general be less prone to be subject to naggling things like this.

Completely false information on the design and engineering.

Vizio designs their own sets in California and has them built to their specs overseas.

Most major companies are now buing parts and panels from others.....Sony has bought Samsung panels as well as Sharp panels. Samsung currently has sets with their own panels as well as panels from Cheng Mei manufacturing.

The fact is all manufacturers buy parts from other's in order to save costs.
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post #14 of 57 Old 05-25-2010, 07:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cawgijoe View Post

Completely false information on the design and engineering.

Vizio designs their own sets in California and has them built to their specs overseas.

Most major companies are now buing parts and panels from others.....Sony has bought Samsung panels as well as Sharp panels. Samsung currently has sets with their own panels as well as panels from Cheng Mei manufacturing.

The fact is all manufacturers buy parts from other's in order to save costs.

not true

Sony and Samsung use a large percentage of S-LCD made panels. S-LCD is a joint venture between the companies with Samsung being the majority owner.

Sony has also gone into a joint venture with Sharp and is part owner of Sharp's new plant that is making panels now.

Sony and Samsung both source panels from AU Optronics but generally speaking only low to mid end models from both companies have panels from AUO. Samsung also sources panels from CMO (Chi Mei Optronics)

Sharp, Panasonic and LG all almost exclusively use their own LCD panels in their TV's (or PDP's in the case of panasonic's larger TV's)

Vizio mostly sources LG panel's for their TV's at least last time i checked they did they may be getting some from elsewhere now or for certain models however. the rest of the electronics are more than likely made by some unknown Chinese manufacture and that's probably why TV repairmen cannot even get parts for Vizio's

If you're a gamer or interested in using an LCD TV as a primary monitor take a look at my thread on Input Lag
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post #15 of 57 Old 05-25-2010, 07:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leesrt View Post

My lip sync issue is with live TV and mainly with the news stations where you have to watch their lips moving the whole time. .

With my 2009 Vizio when I watch the local ABC news program "filmed" with HD cameras in the local studio or by their comentators live in the field I have NO lip sync problems. However as soon as the news program starts showing either SD or HD "filmed" content from another station/location these other location news clips have Lip-sync problems.
I also have lip sync problerms with the ABC Good Mornng America program which is coming from New York.
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post #16 of 57 Old 05-25-2010, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frito View Post

not true

Sony and Samsung use a large percentage of S-LCD made panels. S-LCD is a joint venture between the companies with Samsung being the majority owner.

Sony has also gone into a joint venture with Sharp and is part owner of Sharp's new plant that is making panels now.

Sony and Samsung both source panels from AU Optronics but generally speaking only low to mid end models from both companies have panels from AUO. Samsung also sources panels from CMO (Chi Mei Optronics)

Sharp, Panasonic and LG all almost exclusively use their own LCD panels in their TV's (or PDP's in the case of panasonic's larger TV's)

Vizio mostly sources LG panel's for their TV's at least last time i checked they did they may be getting some from elsewhere now or for certain models however. the rest of the electronics are more than likely made by some unknown Chinese manufacture and that's probably why TV repairmen cannot even get parts for Vizio's

Thats what I meant to say.....I guess it came out wrong....."joint ventures".

I doubt the Chinese manufacturer is unkown in the case of Viziio. How do you know repairmen can't get parts for Vizio? I believe the company has a parts distribution system or they would not last long.
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post #17 of 57 Old 05-25-2010, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cawgijoe View Post

Completely false information on the design and engineering.

Vizio designs their own sets in California and has them built to their specs overseas.

Most major companies are now buing parts and panels from others.....Sony has bought Samsung panels as well as Sharp panels. Samsung currently has sets with their own panels as well as panels from Cheng Mei manufacturing.

The fact is all manufacturers buy parts from other's in order to save costs.

Get a clue...
I'm in the wholesale trade and very familiar with Vizio. They have a meager staff in cali (about 100 folks), most are in customer service for their call center and some in marketing and distribution to their resellers, Sam's, Costco, etc.. Vizio does not have a true engineering or R&D dept. on anywhere near the scale of a Tier 1 (if anyone at all). They do not design their own panels, pcb's, power supplies, software or any componenbts (well maybe bezels). Neither does their assembly partner Amtran.

Amtran soley buys off the shelf panels, pcb's and components and assembles them, they design nothing other than integration of said components to work...Hence one of the reasons you see little (if any) service menus in their sets...their main mission is price point...period...
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post #18 of 57 Old 05-25-2010, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leesrt View Post

My question was meant more for those who have experience with Vizio setting or in this case, the DVR settings.

I didn't think it would be the DVR but based on what I'm hearing it may be the source. I'll do some troubleshooting and narrow it down.

By the way, I didn't contact Vizio yet because I wanted to see if it's something simple I'm overlooking first.

My lip sync issue is with live TV and mainly with the news stations where you have to watch their lips moving the whole time. My DVD player is direct HDMI as well and it has no sync issues. I guess that kind of trouble shot the problem right there. I'll call dish and see if they have a solution. I hate calling dish because unlike Vizio, you'll have to be on the phone for an hour to finally reach someone competent and english speaking.

I can tell you that I have not experienced any lip sync issues related to Dish DVR's from firsthand experience for years. I have currently a 722K and 3-211K's all with OTA, before those I had a 921, 942 & some 622's. I have experienced sync issues with a couple of older Vizio's a GV47L and a 52" years ago. I sometimes get snyc issues on local OTA newcasts, but those are far & few between.

If you do want to get someone at Dish who speaks english, press menu #7 or 8 to activate a new receiver and you will get an english tech who will be sharp, however I don't think your problem lies with Dish, it's most likely just the broadcast or maybe your set.
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post #19 of 57 Old 05-25-2010, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GGG View Post

Get a clue...
I'm in the wholesale trade and very familiar with Vizio. They have a meager staff in cali (about 100 folks), most are in customer service for their call center and some in marketing and distribution to their resellers, Sam's, Costco, etc.. Vizio does not have a true engineering or R&D dept. on anywhere near the scale of a Tier 1 (if anyone at all). They do not design their own panels, pcb's, power supplies, software or any componenbts (well maybe bezels). Neither does their assembly partner Amtran.

Amtran soley buys off the shelf panels, pcb's and components and assembles them, they design nothing other than integration of said components to work...Hence one of the reasons you see little (if any) service menus in their sets...their main mission is price point...period...

Thanks for cluing me in.

This is directly from the Vizio website:

Lowe says only about 130 people work at the company headquarters, and a couple of dozen more work in another U.S. facility. All the manufacturing, along with the detailed design work, is done primarily in Asia.

"I specify exactly what picture performance I require, what inputs I require. I get these teams of engineers to sit down and work out all the circuitry to make that happen," Lowe says. "I like to say I've got a thousand engineers working for me, but they're all paid by another company ... in Asia."

He chuckles a bit as he says this, but he adds that building TVs in the U.S. would require a huge capital investment and right now, at least, Vizio isn't about to make it.

The company buys the flat panels the major component in TVs directly from the suppliers, sometimes the very same suppliers that make panels for more expensive brands. Because Vizio sells so many TVs, it has the clout to negotiate good prices on the parts it buys.

Their business model seems to be working.
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post #20 of 57 Old 05-25-2010, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cawgijoe View Post

Thanks for cluing me in.

This is directly from the Vizio website:

Lowe says only about 130 people work at the company headquarters, and a couple of dozen more work in another U.S. facility. All the manufacturing, along with the detailed design work, is done primarily in Asia.

"I specify exactly what picture performance I require, what inputs I require. I get these teams of engineers to sit down and work out all the circuitry to make that happen," Lowe says. "I like to say I've got a thousand engineers working for me, but they're all paid by another company ... in Asia."

He chuckles a bit as he says this, but he adds that building TVs in the U.S. would require a huge capital investment — and right now, at least, Vizio isn't about to make it.

The company buys the flat panels — the major component in TVs — directly from the suppliers, sometimes the very same suppliers that make panels for more expensive brands. Because Vizio sells so many TVs, it has the clout to negotiate good prices on the parts it buys.

Their business model seems to be working.

Bravo! Copying and pasting generic FUD from a privately held companies website...I have no complaints about their business model, they help drive sales in my trade as well as keeping tier 1's pricing competitive. Just get your facts straight about the company before promoting more FUD.

V designs & engineer nothing--other than bezels, manuals and a shrewd business model. Amtran is a contract assembler not a R&D shop. Most tier 1 companies employ more in their R&D for a single product line than the total employees in Vizio.
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post #21 of 57 Old 05-25-2010, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GGG View Post

Bravo! Copying and pasting generic FUD from a privately held companies website...I have no complaints about their business model, they help drive sales in my trade as well as keeping tier 1's pricing competitive. Just get your facts straight about the company before promoting more FUD.

V designs & engineer nothing--other than bezels, manuals and a shrewd business model. Amtran is a contract assembler not a R&D shop. Most tier 1 companies employ more in their R&D for a single product line than the total employees in Vizio.

Can you read?!

Vizio is basically saying what YOU are saying......they ask for a product and have it designed overseas by engineers and designers from other companies.

It's obvious that you have a bone to pick with Vizio and I could care less.....but lose the attitude.....
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post #22 of 57 Old 05-25-2010, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by cawgijoe View Post

Can you read?!

Vizio is basically saying what YOU are saying......they ask for a product and have it designed overseas by engineers and designers from other companies.

It's obvious that you have a bone to pick with Vizio and I could care less.....but lose the attitude.....

Geezus Pete... Can you read?! Please lose your own attitude...You obviously have a bone to pick for lord knows what?!

This is your own reply to my post that stared this:

"Completely false information on the design and engineering."

Huh?
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post #23 of 57 Old 05-25-2010, 08:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GGG View Post

Geezus Pete... Can you read?! Please lose your own attitude...You obviously have a bone to pick for lord knows what?!

This is your own reply to my post that stared this:

"Completely false information on the design and engineering."

Huh?

If I offended you with that comment, it was unintentional, however.......

You were saying that since Vizio is not a "tier 1" manufacturer, that they are prone to having issues such as lip sync. I don't buy that at all. Thats what I have a problem with. That's complete generalization.

This is not the first thread that you have taken issue with the Vizio brand and personally I could care less whether you like the brand or not........it's your attitude and response that needs work.

"Get a clue" is attitude and rude.

That's my final say on this as I don't want to take up valuable bandwidth and time.
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post #24 of 57 Old 05-26-2010, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by cawgijoe View Post

If I offended you with that comment, it was unintentional, however.......

You were saying that since Vizio is not a "tier 1" manufacturer, that they are prone to having issues such as lip sync. I don't buy that at all. Thats what I have a problem with. That's complete generalization.

This is not the first thread that you have taken issue with the Vizio brand and personally I could care less whether you like the brand or not........it's your attitude and response that needs work.

"Get a clue" is attitude and rude.

That's my final say on this as I don't want to take up valuable bandwidth and time.

If this was your point in the first place, why didn't you articulate it?

My comments were in response to the OP that V in the past has a history of lip synch issues, I have personally experienced these and they are also well documented. They seem to have fixed these issues but their contract assembly folks have addressed these problems by including software delay adjustment, not as a feature, but as a fix to compensate for delay issues.

This is actually a prime example of dealing with non-tier 1 vendors like V who have zero in-house engineering and design. Sorry about the attitude...but if you really want to be the morality police, become a mod.
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post #25 of 57 Old 05-26-2010, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GGG View Post

If this was your point in the first place, why didn't you articulate it?

My comments were in response to the OP that V in the past has a history of lip synch issues, I have personally experienced these and they are also well documented. They seem to have fixed these issues but their contract assembly folks have addressed these problems by including software delay adjustment, not as a feature, but as a fix to compensate for delay issues.

This is actually a prime example of dealing with non-tier 1 vendors like V who have zero in-house engineering and design. Sorry about the attitude...but if you really want to be the morality police, become a mod.

So...what are your thoughts on the tier-1 vendors who have lipsync issues but don't provide a solution to compensate for the delay?
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post #26 of 57 Old 05-26-2010, 04:46 PM
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If AmTran is "buying the cheapest parts and assmebling them together" then they must be doing some R&D too. Maybe they're not designing chipsets but they definitely need to know how to put things together.

LG actually has a joint venture with AmTran.

http://www.sidmembers.org/idonline/n...ewsArt=news322
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Seoul, Korea - LG Display announced September 1 that it has established a joint venture with Taiwanese OEM/ODM LCD TV company AmTRAN Technology, to better position itself in the LCD TV market. AmTRAN Technology produced the majority of LCD TVs sold by VIZIO in 2007, according to DisplaySearch.

Educate me here - I just don't follow the logic how lip syncs problems are prone to happen if a company doesn't do in house RD. Like Foxconn pretty much does the same thing for iphones, motorolas, ps3, xboxes, wiis, etc for different companies but those products are regarded highly.
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post #27 of 57 Old 05-26-2010, 09:59 PM
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Originally Posted by hauptm View Post

So...what are your thoughts on the tier-1 vendors who have lipsync issues but don't provide a solution to compensate for the delay?

Indeed. I also would like to hear GGG's response to this. I returned a Samsung because of clouding AND lip-sync issues. In fact, Samsung seems to get the most complaints about lip-sync troubles. Is Samsung a "tier 1" company? If not, who is?

Vizio is the ONLY manufacturer to offer a lip-sync adjustment in the user menu. They are way ahead on this, since lip-sync issues arise from various sources. I've heard that other manufacturers are trying to license Vizio's lip-sync utility. How, then, is Vizio not incorporating their own design into their sets?

Vizio's picture is equal to the best in terms of sharpness and color accuracy. The latter may have something to do with the use of LG components, including panels---for LG is also known for its realistic color---particularly the reproduction of flesh tones.

Lastly, and very important, Vizio is not plagued with clouding and flashlighting, as are Sony and Samsung---"tier 1" again? I'm laughing. And I'm waiting for the Vizio LED backlit XVT423 to hit the market on July 1. I'm a buyer.
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post #28 of 57 Old 05-27-2010, 01:34 PM
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ahh don't worry guys it's the same two guys who have been bashing Vizio for the past 5 years.

They are a little old hat.
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post #29 of 57 Old 05-27-2010, 09:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Phew!, for a moment I thought I was in the thread I opened about my lip sync issue.

Wait a sec....this is my thread (sarcasm off)

I spoke with Bob (heavy middle eastern accent) who eventually forwarded me to advanced tech support when I exhausted his troubleshooting flow chart.

They decided to send me a new receiver. I asked if this was a known issue that was fixed and they said it wasn't an issue. Kinda like my last receiver when the HDMI output just died.

I'll set the new one up side by side first and see if it fixes it because if it doesn't I'll send the replacement back and tell them to refund my shipping.

I have noticed that not every HD channel has the problem. If I'm watching something off the DVR it's good as well.
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post #30 of 57 Old 05-28-2010, 07:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leesrt View Post

Phew!, for a moment I thought I was in the thread I opened about my lip sync issue.

Wait a sec....this is my thread (sarcasm off)

I spoke with Bob (heavy middle eastern accent) who eventually forwarded me to advanced tech support when I exhausted his troubleshooting flow chart.

They decided to send me a new receiver. I asked if this was a known issue that was fixed and they said it wasn't an issue. Kinda like my last receiver when the HDMI output just died.

I'll set the new one up side by side first and see if it fixes it because if it doesn't I'll send the replacement back and tell them to refund my shipping.

I have noticed that not every HD channel has the problem. If I'm watching something off the DVR it's good as well.

then its probably your receiver and not the TV

If you're a gamer or interested in using an LCD TV as a primary monitor take a look at my thread on Input Lag
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