Official Sony KDL-xxHX800 Owners Thread - Page 25 - AVS Forum
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post #721 of 2601 Old 11-06-2010, 07:39 PM
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I've played around with the ambient light sensor late last night and today. As Omar stated, it's very subtle (smooth) in it's application but I did notice that in fact it does start to adjust as soon as I turned off the lights - making for a completely darkened room - and the resulting dynamic crush was pretty evident. The setting itself states that it will automatically adjust Color and Brightness dependant on ambient conditions. The only benefit to it that makes sense to us is if you are in fact watching in very low or "no" room lighting, it takes the edge off the snow blinding whites - but we just don't watch cable or movies with all the lights off - so I'll be skipping it. Just know this, if your watching the TV late at night and your eyes are tired, flippin this feature on makes viewing really easy. But I wouldn't recommend leaving it on or calibrating around it.

Beyond that, I like these "paid for" actual calibration settings recently posted. Having colorimeter points of reference are important data sets to have. That said, I think the wholesale discounting of built-in features like Dynamic Edge Control, Black Correctors and Light Limiters, etc...etc... from a (old school) calibration purist point of view should always be taken with more than just a grain of salt. These features are in there by design to improve the perception of the assigned parameters and aid in the elimination of clouding and light bleed during dynamic content - which improves the picture. I guess the point I'm trying to make is this, if you're going to turn off all this Bravia Engine technology you might as well pocket your coin and buy an EX model. I highly recommend that you give those features a try on their lowest settings for more than just a couple of days - then shut em off and see what you think then.
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post #722 of 2601 Old 11-06-2010, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by stuup1dmofo View Post

What about LED dynamic control?

LED dynamic control set to off.
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post #723 of 2601 Old 11-06-2010, 09:22 PM
 
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Do you guys use warm2 even for gaming? Im having a tough time deciding between warm1/warm2..
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post #724 of 2601 Old 11-06-2010, 09:23 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Bruce M. View Post

LED dynamic control set to off.

I think thats wrong and i would suggest turning it back on.
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post #725 of 2601 Old 11-07-2010, 03:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Viper2847 View Post

Do you guys use warm2 even for gaming? Im having a tough time deciding between warm1/warm2..

Warm 2 for everything.
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post #726 of 2601 Old 11-07-2010, 05:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce M. View Post


LED dynamic control set to off.

Bruce,

I experimented with you settings last night, only making slight compensation for brightness compared to yours (because of the difference in my gray scale offest settings from yours, i have to have brightness at 52) and personally i found the image you are getting is not very good quality, because you have the led dynamic controller off. It is terribly washed out, ironically, even though your brightness is lower. This is most evident in letter box bars in night scenes. Then I turned on the led dynamic control with your settings, and then our pictures were pretty much identical, honestly, mine still had a bit more richness. As i suspected, the ambient lignt sensor is extremely gamma accurate, and it may be accounting for the little edge in my image over your settings. You should try turning on your dynamic led control for a littlw while, at least, before just dismissing it. It may feel like youre stealing from the altar wine, or creating some other terrible trespass against the Gods of Othodox Television :-) :-) but you are just throwing away the money you spent on this tv if you dont. And if you like, try my set up proceedure (youll need to make minor tweeks to your gray scale as dynamic onand off causes a minor shift in mid grays), bump my contrast setting from 90 to 92 or 94, youll see the nighttime picture is practically identical. But also, where yours suffers in daytime, mine does not because of the ambient light sensor.

I spent about three hours straight watching a Smallville blu ray Friday, stretching from a fairly lit room in early evening to dark at night, taking mental pq notes as i went, and the image balance never faultered. I was seeing exactly the same quality of image--tone, color, contrsst, detail, etc--after dark as i was during the indirect daylight

A lot of "features" are sales gimmics, thats true--like ipod adaptors and dummy lights in cars. But not all engineers and engineering directives are foolish and frivales--like say, anti lock brakes, seat belts and zenon lights. To just wave a dismissive hand at every feature built into a tv set and say "pah-shah" without even testing them against test patterns and live material, is assuming we know more about the set than the people who designed it. Not the best assumption to make if you want the thing to work its best. I ran every one of the features i recommend people to turn off against a battery of tests, first, to determine if they were indeed helping or hurting the picture. And yes, most of the the limitors and correctors damaged the image, but the ones i recommend keep on, i can show help the image. The slight gray scale shift that the led dynamic control causes is narrow and consistent through its range of opperation, so once adjusted for is not a problem ( i just discovered this yesterday. It slipped by my initial calibrations with dynamic led off, because it wasnt large enough to affect the grays in the pluge pattern. As it turns out, the full range of my grays are spot on with the dynamic led turned on), and the ambient light sensor, if set up for properly, does not have any delitarious effect on image quality, in fact it serves to keep it constant through a wide range of external circumstances. If people want more pop out of it, they can try turning the contrast up to max, that defualts the gray scale to where your contrast of 75 is.

Anyway, it seems only amatot bothered to seriously investigate the set up procedure i busted my ass invstigating and detailing, before chosing to agree or disagree with it--either is fine as long as someone tries--and im disapponted. No insult or hard feelings intended toward you personally, bruce, im just muttering :-) but ill probably never put this much effort into an online forum again.

Omar
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post #727 of 2601 Old 11-07-2010, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by OmarF View Post

Anyway, it seems only amatot bothered to seriously investigate the set up procedure i busted my ass invstigating and detailing, before chosing to agree or disagree with it--either is fine as long as someone tries--and im disapponted. No insult or hard feelings intended toward you personally, bruce, im just muttering :-) but ill probably never put this much effort into an online forum again.

Omar

I'm glad you used the word "probably" because had you not, I would have come down on you harder for letting your senses get clobbered by the blog-o-sphere. Truth be told, that last "procedural" based settings with explanations you submitted IS going to help out a lot of people without you even knowing it. This is because there's an untold number of number of folks that buy televisions and google the heck out of settings and methods, who read this and many other forums and try to get a grasp on what all these settings mean and do - but who just don't go that extra step and actually engage the forum - as in - they are silent. Your approach to explaining what you did, how you got there and what it all means compared to your projection based system is going to help a bunch of folks get a grip on this TV and in all likelihood, other Sonys models and even a few "others" as well.

Muttering is OK, just don't let it kill your passion. It's appreciated.

All that said, we all come from a different frame of reference and unfortunately, we all have different eyes and more importantly, different brains that interpret what are eyes are detecting - so the subjectivity of the matter will always lead down that rat-hole of debating what looks "best", which is generally a no win discussion. I see the empowerment that people gain from forums like this one being the real pot-o-gold; the empowerment to gain confidence in actually taking the time to play with the "sliders", so to speak, and actually learn what does what, which ultimately helps them arrive at a better point of reference from their own personal subjective point of view - and a better quality experience with their newly acquired gear. That's the real value add here...
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post #728 of 2601 Old 11-07-2010, 09:02 AM
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Omar--

I absolutely will try these settings with LED dynamic control on--although I certainly respect Michael's educated opinions, I'm not a slave to them. I paid for his expertise, but that contract did not include servitude to his settings.

The ambient light sensor, in fact, I've already tried on (I'm a tinkerer, what can I say?), but I don't yet see the benefit to the picture you describe. Will try with dynamic control next. My picture doesn't appear "terribly washed out" to my eyes now, so if the dynamic control helps further, great. Although I am a little leery about doing gray scale all over again, since I don't have a $13,000 spectrometer at my easy disposal

Just fyi, I think the way I use this TV is much different from the way you use yours. 70% of the time it is during the day, on DirecTV, with indirect though moderate daylight coming from a daylight basement window behind the set. Another 10% is watching DirecTV at night with a bias light only. The rest of the time is split variously between watching blu rays at night, or 1080p downstreams from the net, also mostly at night.

My "serious" home theater watching, or at least more serious, is in a totally light controlled room, day or night, on an 82" Mits DLP, which Michael also calibrated. I was looking for something else from the Sony, perhaps, than some people.

Also, I should make clear that in posting Michael's settings in no way was I trying to imply that people should favor his over your suggestions. Just adding information that might have value to the pot. In fact, I got his permission to do so, since I was concerned that somehow I would transgress some "rule" among calibrators. He said it was no problem, in that he is finding enough variation among these sets with his instruments to make straight transfer of settings from TV to TV to be unreliable, at least on the margins. Some sets seem to be essentially identical, others less so.

One effect I find remarkable when he calibrates, though, is the way he "de-blues" my picture, with good effect. For example, before he worked on the Sony, I had a very hard time watching anything in Warm 2, as it made flesh tones too red, orange and yellow--sort of making everybody look like the soon-to-be Speaker of the House An effect I cannot abide, for more than one reason...

Somehow, now I can watch on Warm 2 just fine.

Anyway, I agree with amatot that your contributions to this thread have been invaluable, far more so than my meager offerings. So please keep them up! I read them all, believe me.
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post #729 of 2601 Old 11-07-2010, 10:09 AM
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So, these sets are more than likely gonna have some decent price cuts for Christmas time, ah? One would think/hope?

I wonder if there will still be a bundle deal included, or will the price be so low, places won't include the whole kaboodle?

Regardless, come December 25th, I will be watching A Christmas Story on TBS HD all day long on the 55" HX800. Barring any unforseen circumstances, of course.

If I wasn't into home theater, I'd have a whole lotta money.
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post #730 of 2601 Old 11-07-2010, 12:48 PM
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So, these sets are more than likely gonna have some decent price cuts for Christmas time, ah? One would think/hope?

I wonder if there will still be a bundle deal included, or will the price be so low, places won't include the whole kaboodle?

Regardless, come December 25th, I will be watching A Christmas Story on TBS HD all day long on the 55" HX800. Barring any unforseen circumstances, of course.

There's been a few people who have already scored this set well below 2k. It seems reasonable that these televisions will price well going into the holiday shopping season, especially when you consider how much the HX909s have come down in price in recent weeks; if you're in the market it would pay to pay close attention to internet pricing barometers and reported "scores" on sites like this. I think it's very possible that the big box joints will offer this set bundled and priced attractively low albeit in limited available quantities.
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post #731 of 2601 Old 11-07-2010, 01:02 PM
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Hey bruce and amatot,

Sorry if I was being a jerk earlier, i just hoped for some more attempts at detailed peer review. Bruce, i'd appreciate hear what you have to say if you check out my settings. His work wasnt in the service menu, was it? If it wasnt i guess its no trouble to note down your current settings before trying mine. Two things to note, one, you dont have to totally recal your gray, in fact i looked at it again today and only had to change blue minus one click, and i think it was off that little bit anyway. If you have a perfectly dialed in cal already, ill bet you dont have to change it at all. I think in my case, turning off the dynamic led control made the screen brighter and i just noticed the difference that was off a bit. After changing the one tick, on or off made no change in the gray tone other than brightness of course. Now ive gone and forgotten what thing two was :-) oh, yes...you may want to try shifting your settings to Cinema mode and redoing your sharpness there. You get much finer control over it in cinema than the general modes. The general modes turn it up 3:1 compared to cinema. So your sharpness of 2 is equal to 6 in cinema, which causes high frequency banding. I found 4 in cinema is about perfect.

Amatot, i think your points were all correct regarding other people lurking and being able to help them. When you tried my settings, did you try them comprehensively, or just try adding the ambient sensor to your settings?

Thanks for the patience,
Omar
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post #732 of 2601 Old 11-07-2010, 02:18 PM
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I also agree with what amatot and bruce have both said. I'm a complete noob when it comes to calibrating a tv, and this forum has been extremely valuable to me. I've learned so much from reading everyone's postings and responses to each other.

Omar, your most recent lengthy posting has been IMMENSELY helpful in trying to understand how this tv works. I've read that post multiple times from start to finish, and I'm sure many people in this forum have done the same. I'm usually one of the "lurkers" that amatot mentioned, reading all the posts but never really responding. It's usually because I don't have anything helpful to contribute, and enjoy learning as the "pros" post their progress.

I'm just one of the many that have benefited from you guys willing to share your knowledge. I am very grateful.
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post #733 of 2601 Old 11-07-2010, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by hanguk9117 View Post

I also agree with what amatot and bruce have both said. I'm a complete noob when it comes to calibrating a tv, and this forum has been extremely valuable to me. I've learned so much from reading everyone's postings and responses to each other.

Omar, your most recent lengthy posting has been IMMENSELY helpful in trying to understand how this tv works. I've read that post multiple times from start to finish, and I'm sure many people in this forum have done the same. I'm usually one of the "lurkers" that amatot mentioned, reading all the posts but never really responding. It's usually because I don't have anything helpful to contribute, and enjoy learning as the "pros" post their progress.

I'm just one of the many that have benefited from you guys willing to share your knowledge. I am very grateful.

Thanks, hanguk!

Omar
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post #734 of 2601 Old 11-07-2010, 04:41 PM
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Omar--

Well, I can say now that turning the LED dynamic control on with my other settings certainly does not make it worse, and may make it better--at least on DirecTV. Haven't tried Blu Ray yet. Seems to be a bit darker but also maybe a bit more pop to the image. I'll keep it on for another few days at least. I'm also liking Smooth for DirecTV, perish the thought, especially for football.

As to General v. Cinema, what else if anything does Cinema do besides changing the sharpness control? In General, we just threw up a Calman pattern or two and backed it down until we couldn't see any white outlines (let alone banding).

None of Michael's changes were in the Service menu, and they are already written down, so when I'm feeling adventurous and with some more time, I'll try yours out. For ease of reference, what post number reflects your latest settings?
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post #735 of 2601 Old 11-07-2010, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce M. View Post

Omar--

Well, I can say now that turning the LED dynamic control on with my other settings certainly does not make it worse, and may make it better--at least on DirecTV. Haven't tried Blu Ray yet. Seems to be a bit darker but also maybe a bit more pop to the image. I'll keep it on for another few days at least. I'm also liking Smooth for DirecTV, perish the thought, especially for football.

As to General v. Cinema, what else if anything does Cinema do besides changing the sharpness control? In General, we just threw up a Calman pattern or two and backed it down until we couldn't see any white outlines (let alone banding).

None of Michael's changes were in the Service menu, and they are already written down, so when I'm feeling adventurous and with some more time, I'll try yours out. For ease of reference, what post number reflects your latest settings?

Cinema seems to have very slightly more color, other than the sharpness thats it. Do you have the DVE blu ray? I always advise test patterns first and real video after, otherwise its hard to tell what effects are coming from that particular disc and what from the tv.

To give mine a try, since you have w/b, brightness, color, hue etc right already, all you have to do is change your:

Mode to cinema
Contrast to 90
You may want to kick your brightness up to 50 need to use test patterns to set it.
Sharpness to 4
Gamma to 0
Led dynamic to standard
Ambient light sensor On

Keep everything else the same.

Dynamic led should be making the dark parts of your pic darker, and the bright parts brighter, hence the darker with more pop youre noticing already. Pause a low contrast night scene and try turning it on and off to really see the difference it makes.

Tey smooth/auto 1 with a good fast action movie, too!

Omar
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post #736 of 2601 Old 11-07-2010, 05:08 PM
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Will do. Give me a day or two, though. I want to have some time with this. Actually the only setting you suggest that makes me a bit apprehensive is the Ambient Light sensor, at least at night. I don't want to lose black detail. That, and the contrast number seems pretty high.

But what the heck, it's all reversible, and I don't watch this set a lot at night anyway.

Will report back...
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post #737 of 2601 Old 11-07-2010, 06:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce M. View Post

Will do. Give me a day or two, though. I want to have some time with this. Actually the only setting you suggest that makes me a bit apprehensive is the Ambient Light sensor, at least at night. I don't want to lose black detail. That, and the contrast number seems pretty high.

But what the heck, it's all reversible, and I don't watch this set a lot at night anyway.

Will report back...

It will give you more detail and better black levels at the same time. The contrast is just to give headroom for it to work in. In practical watching, it comes out about the same as your 75 setting for overall brightness. 92-94 will bring it to the same level. I like 90 with the lighr sensor because it gives a perfectly balanced picture. 90 is too high without the ambient sensor, perfect with it.

Omar
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post #738 of 2601 Old 11-07-2010, 07:42 PM
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Got it. Will try these and report. It won't be possible to A/B the settings "packages" properly, but if I do it enough times I should get a good impression after awhile.
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post #739 of 2601 Old 11-07-2010, 10:58 PM
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Bruce,
... but ill probably never put this much effort into an online forum again...
Omar

OmarF, I wanted to express my thanks for your detailed post earlier. I printed it out and took it up to the TV. Read it twice and tried your settings exactly. Had some family over to watch a BD of G.I. Joe - The Rise of Cobra. Everyone was commenting how great the new set looked (a 55" HX800 with a PS3 for BD). My wife asked what I had done differently since the previous movie (I was amazed she noticed because she usually doesn't notice such things). I explained and she told me she loved the almost 3D feel of the image (it does take a little getting used to it though!). I thought the picture over all looked the best I've seen from this set yet. If I only had one comment that would be that scenes that were partially dark (say has part of the image in shadows) seemed a bit over dark in only the dark areas. I don't know if I'm describing it right but is that what is called crushing the blacks? The dark shadowy parts of the image didn't seem to have as much detail as I would expect.

Anyway, just wanted to say thanks to you and everyone who helps here. You all really do help a lot of people.
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post #740 of 2601 Old 11-08-2010, 01:34 AM
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Also just wanted to say thanks to everyone who posts their settings. I'm using some of amatots first settings that were posted and have been reasonably pleased with those. Looking forward to trying omars and Bruces, will report back which I end up going with. Anyway, just wanted to say thanks for spending so much time trying to get the perfect configuration so I don't have to
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post #741 of 2601 Old 11-08-2010, 05:38 AM
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OmarF, I wanted to express my thanks for your detailed post earlier. I printed it out and took it up to the TV. Read it twice and tried your settings exactly. Had some family over to watch a BD of G.I. Joe - The Rise of Cobra. Everyone was commenting how great the new set looked (a 55" HX800 with a PS3 for BD). My wife asked what I had done differently since the previous movie (I was amazed she noticed because she usually doesn't notice such things). I explained and she told me she loved the almost 3D feel of the image (it does take a little getting used to it though!). I thought the picture over all looked the best I've seen from this set yet. If I only had one comment that would be that scenes that were partially dark (say has part of the image in shadows) seemed a bit over dark in only the dark areas. I don't know if I'm describing it right but is that what is called crushing the blacks? The dark shadowy parts of the image didn't seem to have as much detail as I would expect.

Anyway, just wanted to say thanks to you and everyone who helps here. You all really do help a lot of people.


that's the problem I have, same goes for How To Train Your Dragon, all the night shots look way too dark with no shadow detail. I tried all kinds of settings to no avail.
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post #742 of 2601 Old 11-08-2010, 05:45 AM
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OmarF, I wanted to express my thanks for your detailed post earlier. I printed it out and took it up to the TV. Read it twice and tried your settings exactly. Had some family over to watch a BD of G.I. Joe - The Rise of Cobra. Everyone was commenting how great the new set looked (a 55" HX800 with a PS3 for BD). My wife asked what I had done differently since the previous movie (I was amazed she noticed because she usually doesn't notice such things). I explained and she told me she loved the almost 3D feel of the image (it does take a little getting used to it though!). I thought the picture over all looked the best I've seen from this set yet. If I only had one comment that would be that scenes that were partially dark (say has part of the image in shadows) seemed a bit over dark in only the dark areas. I don't know if I'm describing it right but is that what is called crushing the blacks? The dark shadowy parts of the image didn't seem to have as much detail as I would expect.

Anyway, just wanted to say thanks to you and everyone who helps here. You all really do help a lot of people.

Thanks for the thanks :-) glad i could help.

If youve straight copied my white balance settings, they probably arent working for your set and are bringing the white levels down too much in intensity by taking too much out color. If you have a dve disc try doing my technique for deriving your own white balance offsets, if not, zero the white balance back out and use a brightness of 50, set everything else as the other post describes. See if that helps. Btw, over the weekend i changed my own white balance sertings some and also changed my color setting to 51.

We cant use someone elses white offests, that really needs to be understood. Each tv needs its own perscription just like our eyes do. Very rarely are someone elses glasses better than naked vision. If you cant do your own, it would be worth getting a pro calibration done. But for a lot less money, you could order a Digital Video Essentials blu ray off amazon and try to do your own, as i described in the other post. For example, i plugged bruces offsets in just for the hell of it, and they didnt work at all for me. On his set, theyre probably perfect. Thats because his set was pushing blue, where mine was mostly pushing green.

Black crush is most easily identified with a test disc and contrast ramps. Otherwise it could be the disc, the tv, the player or our eyes and what theyre accustomed to seeing. Like i said, if you copied my offsets, try zeroing out and brigjtness of 50. Let me know how it works.

Omar
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post #743 of 2601 Old 11-08-2010, 05:49 AM
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Originally Posted by swifty7 View Post


that's the problem I have, same goes for How To Train Your Dragon, all the night shots look way too dark with no shadow detail. I tried all kinds of settings to no avail.

Not every detail is meant to be seen, all the same i get a lot of detail. If you have dve i can point you to the pattern that shows if youre losing detail or not. You may want to consider a pro calibration if you cant find settings that work for you. I know one thing, this tv is capable of looking incredible.

Omar
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post #744 of 2601 Old 11-08-2010, 10:51 AM
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thanks Omar for your white balance settings, it purified the colors to my liking. I decided to keep the Sony after all. I don't even see the clouding anymore. I just saw Kubrik's 2001 with the new settings and motion flow set to standard and the picture quality was jaw dropping.
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post #745 of 2601 Old 11-08-2010, 11:33 AM
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What does "standard" on MotionFlow do, does anybody know? I tried some serious A/B comparison on the different MotionFlow settings (with LED Dynamic Control on, thanks to Omar) last night with a DirecTV HD movie, and I could not decide whether I liked Standard or Clear1 better. Standard almost seemed like a midpoint between Smooth and Clear1. Clear1 seemed the most "cinematic" to me.

What I did determine is that while Smooth on sports is fine with me, Smooth on a movie on DirecTV gives me the soap opera effect something fierce. It seems both more "real", and less like what I consider a theatrical movie. Almost as if it's the result of a really good camcorder being used.

I wonder if it's like rainbows on a DLP--some people see them, some people don't? Or maybe everybody sees the same effect in Smooth, and it bugs some people but pleases others...

In any event, I'm trying to get this part straightened out first, so when I try Omar's settings I'm settled on the rest of it all.
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post #746 of 2601 Old 11-08-2010, 01:13 PM
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hello everyone, im a newbie here

i just purchased the 55hx800 with a PS3 package/2 glasses/emitter

i was on the fence about what to buy between samsungs, the nx810, and even a plasma

im moving up froma 32 inch sony trinitron tube tv

it was very hard for me to tell any differnce in a lot of displays wheni would walk into the best buy to view and compare the screens but i think the package deal with the ps3 helped me decide on this hi end tv

it gets delivered tommorow and im pretty excited

the sales guy at magnolia HT stand alone store recommended getting it calibrated after 100 hrs...is this needed?

i really dont understand all the different settings im reading here,yet atleast but i hope i do eventually

anyways, i hope i made a good choice...i didnt see an advantage of the nx810 , 300 $ more and wifi built in didnt seem worth it....i dont know
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post #747 of 2601 Old 11-08-2010, 01:22 PM
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Welcome to AVS.

<<i really dont understand all the different settings im reading here,yet atleast but i hope i do eventually>>>

Don't feel bad. Many of us didn't understand what those controls do either, until we came to AVS and got an education by following certain threads.

In your case, consider yourself very fortunate to have found a place populated with knowledgeable members eager to help new and old owners alike. Just read a few of the older posts here and you'll see what I mean. Especially noteworthy is a "guide" posted by OmarF.

Don't be shy and ask about anything you do not understand. Again, welcome to AVS.
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post #748 of 2601 Old 11-08-2010, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swifty7
thanks Omar for your white balance settings, it purified the colors to my liking. I decided to keep the Sony after all. I don't even see the clouding anymore. I just saw Kubrik's 2001 with the new settings and motion flow set to standard and the picture quality was jaw dropping.
Youre welcome, glad it helped!
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post #749 of 2601 Old 11-08-2010, 01:29 PM
 
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You made a good choice with the HX800. The only reason to spend the extra $300 for the NX810 is for the built-in wifi and mainly the different design (which to some people is nicer and some not). For PQ they should be about the same.
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post #750 of 2601 Old 11-08-2010, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce M.
What does "standard" on MotionFlow do, does anybody know? I tried some serious A/B comparison on the different MotionFlow settings (with LED Dynamic Control on, thanks to Omar) last night with a DirecTV HD movie, and I could not decide whether I liked Standard or Clear1 better. Standard almost seemed like a midpoint between Smooth and Clear1. Clear1 seemed the most "cinematic" to me.

What I did determine is that while Smooth on sports is fine with me, Smooth on a movie on DirecTV gives me the soap opera effect something fierce. It seems both more "real", and less like what I consider a theatrical movie. Almost as if it's the result of a really good camcorder being used.

I wonder if it's like rainbows on a DLP--some people see them, some people don't? Or maybe everybody sees the same effect in Smooth, and it bugs some people but pleases others...

In any event, I'm trying to get this part straightened out first, so when I try Omar's settings I'm settled on the rest of it all.
Smooth is 240 hz, standard is 120. Im not sure what clear is actually, but it does look like the frame of cinema in its end effect. I offer, try smooth for a week with good quality viewing material (ie, blu ray) and see how you like it. When i use it with netflix streaming i notice artifacts caused by streaming speed with it, but still ignore that and keep it running. I think the "soap opera effect" is caused by the fact that we are conditioned to slow framerates all our lives and not used to something more like reality, also, such a large amount of spacial information is being compressed into a small space, when it moves with the fluidity of real life, it makes us feel a bit dizzy at first. But once i got used to it, it was fine and i wouldnt go back, now i see so much more detail and clean motion. But that is a personal choice, too. Theres no wrong frame rate, only the original vs. upscaled.
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