Official Sony XBR HX909 owners' thread (52HX909, 46HX909, HX9, HX900) - Page 90 - AVS Forum
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post #2671 of 2897 Old 08-04-2011, 01:24 AM
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In fact, I noticed a slight improvement.
But I hate to reduce the local dimming.

Are you a gamer? When I play a FPS (Borderland), I see a little clearer spot on the sky (blue or gray).
It could be confused with a very small cloud. It is located slightly above and left of the target. Hard not to see it (I make a fixation).
I was at my other two 52hx909 before deciding.
They had just under DSE, vertical banding, but a more marked.

DSE: light cloud clear background of uni (sky, grass, ice, sand)

Banding (light & black bars): a lot of screen tearing, with all the visible content.

bass462, what are you a face and under what conditions?

Blackvette94 is right: Some users complain about the 920 black bars very marked and DSE.
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post #2672 of 2897 Old 08-04-2011, 04:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsulmeyer View Post

Last week I posted an S.O.S. regarding my 46HX909. I mentioned several issues, including issues with the image quality - especially with skin tone - and some mechanical problems I was having with my set. A few nice folks here asked me to post my picture settings, which I'll do below, but unfortunately, in trouble shooting with Sony, I had to reset everything, so I'm kind of back at square one, with regards to settings. I also have an update regarding the mechanical issues I was having. I would love some additional feedback in both these areas.

First, regarding image quality:

After drawing several comparisons between the image quality of my 40-inch Samsung edge-lit LED TV and the HX909, I finally set them up side by side, with the Samsung running via HDMI and the Sony via component cables. Watching the same cable feed, I was able to get the settings pretty close between the two. The main differences I'm noticing in terms of color reproduction is that with both units in the standard setting, and color temp set to neutral:

Whites:
The Samsung's whites are "whiter" - perhaps with a very slight blue tinge compared to the Sony. The Sony's whites have a warmer or browner tinge. I tried setting the the Sony to "cool" which I hate, but wanted to see if I could match the shade of white, but it looked REALLY cool and didn't match the Samsung at all.

Reds:
My biggest complaint of Sony's color reproduction. Compared to the Samsung's reds, the Sony's look almost "mustardy." The reds have a slight burnt orange tinge to them - it's really apparent when viewed side-by-side.

Skin Tones:
Okay, maybe THIS is my biggest complaint with Sony. When viewed side-by-side, skin on the Samsung had more red/pink "pigment" where skin on the Sony looked greenish/yellowish in comparison. Skin on the Samsung just looks more natural and healthy to me; I had been using the word "pasty" to describe skin on the Sony and it was strikingly apparent when I had the sets running side-by-side.

Black and White:
Viewing black and white footage, on the Samsung the blacks and grays looked, well, like normal black and white footage; on the Sony, the image looked almost like sepia in comparison. Very weird. Perhaps the same yellowish quality that I'm seeing in the whites, reds, and skin tones is what I'm seeing here.

If anyone has any suggestions how I can better match the whites, reds and skin tones to be closer to the Samsung's - most importantly getting the reds to be more true red and skin more red/pink and less yellow - I would GREATLY appreciate it.

Here are the current settings of the Sony that are as close as I can get them to the Samsung's image so far:

Picture Mode: Standard
Backlight: 6
Picture: Max
Brightness: 50
Color: 55
Hue: 0
Color Temp: Neutral
Sharpness: 65
Noise Reduction: Low
MPEG Noise Reduction: Auto
Motionflow: Clear 1
CineMotion: Auto 1
Advanced Settings:
Black Corrector: Medium
Adv. Contrast Enhancer: Off
Gamma: -1
LED Dynamic Control: Standard
Auto Light Limiter: Medium
Clear White: Low
Live Color: Off
White Balance: default
Detail Enhancer: High
Edge Enhance: Low

I'm sure most of you who are using professional calibration settings are cringing at these settings, but I'm simply tweaking my newly reset default settings to match my Samsung's image as closely as possible. Like I said, it's pretty close, except for the whites, reds and skin tones.

*****

Now, as far as the mechanical issues are concerned, the most troubling issues I've experienced so far are the following:

Random/intermittent lag/delay in the onscreen menu.
I'll be pressing the volume up button, for example, and suddenly, even though the green light on the TV is flashing (receiving the signal) the horizontal blue bar and the numbers on the far right stop responding. Then, suddenly, they will JUMP to the proper position. I also noticed the same behavior when scrolling through the menus, where the onscreen menu will basically freeze and jump ahead to catch up with itself. Unfortunately, this issue is extremely random and, therefore, very hard to reproduce. I had an authorized Sony repair guy come take a look and, while he did catch the volume bar lagging and then jumping ahead, he didn't consider it a particularly serious issue. What do you think? Has anyone here experienced this type of menu "lag?"

Set turned itself off and then back on
This happened twice. The first time, I attributed this to the fact that I was repeatedly turning the set off and on, trying to reproduce a random delay I had noticed, where the set wouldn't immediately turn back on after a power off. The second time, however, it occurred a about 5-10 seconds after powering up the set for the first time that day. I turned the set on, saw the image come up, then the set shut off and then back on. I thought I was sitting on the remote, but I wasn't. This happened a week ago and hasn't happened since, but it really had me upset. Of all the issues I mentioned to the Sony repair guy (random delay turning on immediately after a power off, lagging menu, etc.) this was the one issue that troubled him.

As I'm mentioned numerous times, I can't find any more 46HX909's at any Fry's in southern California, so exchanging this unit for another one is not an option. The Sony repair guy, after contacting Sony for their take on the issues, recommended replacing the main board and, possibly the remote pre-amp board. The main question I'm faced with right now is whether I want to have a brand new, two week-old TV taken apart and repaired. I'm very OCD about these things and one slightly dinged or stripped screw on the back will drive me nuts! On the other hand, if the only alternative is to return the TV and have to settle for a different model somewhere down the line, perhaps it's the right thing to do.

Is what I'm experiencing just the normal, idiosyncratic behavior of modern TV sets? Since these behaviors are so random, am I better just living with the set as it is or should I be running to Fry's to get my money back?

As always, any and all feedback would be GREATLY appreciated.

i dunno about u but i have seen both sets side by side samsung and sony and i picked the sony because the pq and colors looked for real and brighter
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post #2673 of 2897 Old 08-04-2011, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chemi View Post
In fact, I noticed a slight improvement.
But I hate to reduce the local dimming.

Are you a gamer? When I play a FPS (Borderland), I see a little clearer spot on the sky (blue or gray).
It could be confused with a very small cloud. It is located slightly above and left of the target. Hard not to see it (I make a fixation).
I was at my other two 55hx909 before deciding.
They had just under DSE, vertical banding, but a more marked.

DSE: light cloud clear background of uni (sky, grass, ice, sand)

Banding (light & black bars): a lot of screen tearing, with all the visible content.

bass462, what are you a face and under what conditions?

Blackvette94 is right: Some users complain about the 920 black bars very marked and DSE.
chemi, i'm not sure i understand your question. ( i speak french if you want to message me)
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post #2674 of 2897 Old 08-04-2011, 01:12 PM
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Setting Memory: Common
Picture Mode: Custom
Backlight: 7
Picture: 86
Brightness: 46
Color: 50
Hue: 0
Color Temp: Neutral
Sharpness: 65
Noise Reduction: Low
MPEG Noise Reduction: Auto
Motionflow: Clear 2
CineMotion: Auto 2

Advanced Settings
Black Corrector: Medium
Adv. Contrast Enhancer: Off
Gamma: -2
LED Dynamic Control: Standard
Auto Light Limiter: Medium
Clear White: Low
Live Color: Low
White Balance: R-Gain -11
G-Gain -8
B-Gain 0
R-Bias 0
G-Bias 0
B-Bias -1
Detail Enhancer: Off
Edge Enhance: Off

Ambient Sensor: Off

Best picture I've had since I've purchased this 52HX909
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post #2675 of 2897 Old 08-08-2011, 07:00 AM
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Will try your settings today.. Most settings I've tried from users on me can't even beat the old standard lol
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post #2676 of 2897 Old 08-08-2011, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martyball619 View Post

Will try your settings today.. Most settings I've tried from users on me can't even beat the old standard lol

Thanks let me know what u think.
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post #2677 of 2897 Old 08-09-2011, 05:38 PM
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Got to say this stuff is awesome. My daughter was changing Blurays out the other night and sneezed on my 52HX909. By the time i got over there, it was dried onto the display. I tried water and a microfiber cloth, but no luck getting the spots off. The were all over the right side of the display. I checked through this thread and saw the recommendation for Purosol. So, I ordered some off Amazon. All I can say is this stuff works great. Took all the spots off without damaging the coating on the panel. It looks great!!!

Get some! You will not be sorry.
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post #2678 of 2897 Old 08-12-2011, 10:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btmac View Post

Got to say this stuff is awesome. My daughter was changing Blurays out the other night and sneezed on my 52HX909. By the time i got over there, it was dried onto the display. I tried water and a microfiber cloth, but no luck getting the spots off. The were all over the right side of the display. I checked through this thread and saw the recommendation for Purosol. So, I ordered some off Amazon. All I can say is this stuff works great. Took all the spots off without damaging the coating on the panel. It looks great!!!

Get some! You will not be sorry.


Glad you like it. I bought a large bottle so I will always have it around. I even carry a small bottle with my laptop.
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post #2679 of 2897 Old 08-13-2011, 06:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Opentoe View Post


Glad you like it. I bought a large bottle so I will always have it around. I even carry a small bottle with my laptop.

I got the 16 oz. bottle. Wanted to have plenty of it!!!
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post #2680 of 2897 Old 08-14-2011, 01:42 PM
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I have had a HX900 since last year, and have extensively tried every posted calibration out there, and have compared minor changes across an assortment of favorite blu-ray test discs.

So I feel confident in giving this advice to those struggling to dial this set in. The sweet spot on getting this TV right is smaller and more difficult than others.

But let me first say that you will not see what this TV can do, until you get a quality blu-ray player such as the Oppo-93 or better. Do not listen to those idiots who say all 24p blu-ray players look the same. They do not, especially on a well calibrated set.

The Oppo-93 has richer color, better shadow detail, and smoother motion, compared to my Sony S370 and Marantz BD-7004. For example, on the later two players, I always felt the need to turn Live Color on to at least 'Low', because the color just seemed washed out. But with the Oppo this is not the case. The Marvell Qdeo image processor that the Oppo-93 uses is worth paying the extra money for. There is also a more resolving picture, more backround detail with the Oppo.

Picture Mode: Cinema / Theatre
Backlight: 7
Picture: 85
Brightness: 50
Color: 50
Hue: 0
Sharpness: 0
Color Temp: Warm2
Noise Reduction: Off
MPEG Noise Reduction: Off
Motionflow: Clear 2 (Also called Clear Plus)
CineMotion: Auto 1

Advanced Settings

Black Corrector: Off
Adv. Contrast Enhancer: Off
Gamma: -1
LED Dynamic Control: Standard
Auto Light Limiter: Off
Clear White: Off
Live Color: Off
Detail Enhancer: Off
Edge Enhance: Off

Ambient Sensor: Off

I should mention that you are totally going the wrong way by using Doug Blackbourne's settings of Backlight 2, Clear 1 and Gamma -2. These settings will make shadow detail completely crushed and the picture will overall look too dark.

At first glance, Clear 2 has even worse reduced light output, so the backlight must be raised to compensate. But what you get is the clearest and most detailed picture out there. Image stability is better than using Clear 1. Clear 2 is just phenominal once these settings are dialed in.

Also, this Tv seems suceptible to dirty AC mains. The use of a power conditioner and good cables noticably removed picture grain and hash.

Now calibrating white balance varies from TV to TV, but what has been consistant with this model across all the forums is the brown/yellow tint that is prevalent when setting color temp to Warm2.

So if you do not have acess to proper calibration equipment, I suspect you can safely make the following changes to the white balance, to give more natural color.

R-Gain -9
G-Gain -7

My own settings are R-Gain -11, G-Gain -8.

Also, setting the color mode output on the blu-ray players themself is important, but it seems to vary from player to player. The Sony S370 needs to be set to output YCBCR, and cannot achieve deep blacks in any of it's RGB modes. But what I can say is best if using an Oppo, is to output RGB (PC Levels) and turn all Deep Color and dithering OFF. For some reason, 30-bit or 36-bit Deep Color seems to create some artifical noise in the color gradiants, but we are talking the most minute differences at this last stage.

Hope this helps...
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post #2681 of 2897 Old 08-14-2011, 01:53 PM
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I also want to add further why I think the Backlight 2, Clear 1, and Gamma -2 calibration that is commonly posted should not be used.

These settings are correct when calibrating from a starting point of Motionflow OFF or Clear 1. But in this mode shadow detail is crushed. To uncrush, using those settings, you must raise gamma to 0 or +1, or raise the backlight. But by doing any of this, the image loses vividness and punch, because it has moved out of the sweetspot. So yes, those calibrated settings are correct for that mode. But using Clear 2 to begin with get's you the best image, for blu-ray anyway.
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post #2682 of 2897 Old 08-14-2011, 06:11 PM
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Almost a year ago, we purchased the 52HX909. We are constantly pleased w/ this set's spectacular picture. When the 929 came on the scene this year, I worried that we had paid too much, too soon, w/ a first-year model. However, after reading about the crease issues, frustrations w/ crosstalk/flickering in 3D mode (and 3D was/is still important to us), we are not regretting our purchase.

One year later, and its beauty still makes our jaws drop!
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post #2683 of 2897 Old 08-14-2011, 06:54 PM
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thanks skypilotofhope

Why auto 1 ?

Why not auto 2 ?

With auto 1, the picture is jerky (seen in "Alien I", early in the film)
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post #2684 of 2897 Old 08-14-2011, 07:10 PM
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chemi, with Motionflow set to Standard and Smooth, Auto1 seems to enable the frame interpolation of these modes. So you get that sped-up video look, to an extreme level with Smooth. Auto2 does not do this.

But with Clear 1 & 2, having either auto1/auto2 on or off does not make any difference (with 24p BD material anyway).

skypilotofhope, the 929 will have better 3D quality, because it is such an new technology, but with everything else I suspect the 929 will not be any better than the 909, and with inferior build quality to boot.
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post #2685 of 2897 Old 08-14-2011, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agisthos View Post

skypilotofhope, the 929 will have better 3D quality, because it is such an new technology, but with everything else I suspect the 929 will not be any better than the 909, and with inferior build quality to boot.

How is the build quality of the 929 "inferior" to that of the 909?

AJ
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post #2686 of 2897 Old 08-14-2011, 09:00 PM
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Suspect all you want, I know better because I have the 909 and the 929. 909 is not the better set in any aspect except weight, if you like heavy TVs go for the 909.
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post #2687 of 2897 Old 08-14-2011, 09:10 PM
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The 909 is the last of the inhouse built Sony before they outsourced all TV production. So yes corners will be cut on build quality, that is what happens when you move from doing premium products to trying to compete with Samsing.
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post #2688 of 2897 Old 08-14-2011, 09:56 PM
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Agisthos, thanks for the excellent feedback. What are your recommended settings on a PS3? Have you also noticed that turning OFF 24p motion on the PS3, & having AUTO2 ON the hx909 strangely provides a more faithful, film-like motion?
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post #2689 of 2897 Old 08-14-2011, 10:19 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skypilotofhope View Post

Almost a year ago, we purchased the 52HX909. We are constantly pleased w/ this set's spectacular picture. When the 929 came on the scene this year, I worried that we had paid too much, too soon, w/ a first-year model. However, after reading about the crease issues, frustrations w/ crosstalk/flickering in 3D mode (and 3D was/is still important to us), we are not regretting our purchase.

One year later, and its beauty still makes our jaws drop!

For 3D quality theres no question that the 929 is better than the 909. Any complaints in the 3d department are only worse on the 909.

The crease issue on the other hand is a joke. It goes to show just how much better the build quality is on the 909.
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post #2690 of 2897 Old 08-14-2011, 10:21 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WiWavelength View Post

How is the build quality of the 929 "inferior" to that of the 909?

AJ

Uh the crease issue? The wobbly stand? The fact that it looks/feels like a giant piece of wobbly plastic next to the rock solid glass structure that the 909 has?

I got both of them and its just a painfully obvious downgrade for build quality on the 929 compared to the 909. Do you really think Sony will give a 55" full local dimming model for less money than a 52" only a year later without cutting down the cost to build it?
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post #2691 of 2897 Old 08-15-2011, 04:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viper2847; View Post

For 3D quality theres no question that the 929 is better than the 909. Any complaints in the 3d department are only worse on the 909.

The crease issue on the other hand is a joke. It goes to show just how much better the build quality is on the 909.

Oke V, make us a xbr8/ hx909 / hx929 comparison - should be interesting.
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post #2692 of 2897 Old 08-15-2011, 05:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omarindeed View Post

Agisthos, thanks for the excellent feedback. What are your recommended settings on a PS3? Have you also noticed that turning OFF 24p motion on the PS3, & having AUTO2 ON the hx909 strangely provides a more faithful, film-like motion?

very good question... "game" and "sports"
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post #2693 of 2897 Old 08-15-2011, 05:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omarindeed View Post

Agisthos, thanks for the excellent feedback. What are your recommended settings on a PS3? Have you also noticed that turning OFF 24p motion on the PS3, & having AUTO2 ON the hx909 strangely provides a more faithful, film-like motion?

I have used a PS3 and compared it's settings only with a Panasonic Plasma. Maybe someone else can chime in here.

The PS3 is a very good upscaler of non 1080 material, although recent blu-ray players have started to catch up in this regard.
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post #2694 of 2897 Old 08-15-2011, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agisthos View Post
I also want to add further why I think the Backlight 2, Clear 1, and Gamma -2 calibration that is commonly posted should not be used.

These settings are correct when calibrating from a starting point of Motionflow OFF or Clear 1. But in this mode shadow detail is crushed. To uncrush, using those settings, you must raise gamma to 0 or +1, or raise the backlight. But by doing any of this, the image loses vividness and punch, because it has moved out of the sweetspot. So yes, those calibrated settings are correct for that mode. But using Clear 2 to begin with get's you the best image, for blu-ray anyway.


What is the best setting to not crush the shadow detail in "Game"

Any ideas?

Picture Mode: game / graphics

Backlight: 2
Picture: 85
Brightness: 50
Color: 50
Hue: 0
Sharpness: 0
Color Temp: Warm2
Noise Reduction: Off
MPEG Noise Reduction: Off
Motionflow: Off
CineMotion: Off

Advanced Settings

Black Corrector: Off
Adv. Contrast Enhancer: Off
Gamma: -1
LED Dynamic Control: Standard
Auto Light Limiter: Off
Clear White: Off
Live Color: Off
Detail Enhancer: Off
Edge Enhance: Off

Ambient Sensor: Off
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post #2695 of 2897 Old 08-15-2011, 02:57 PM
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Like I said before chemi, I was not able to calibrate any setting that did not crush shadow detail, unless it was Motionflow Clear 2 (Clear Plus).

But for Gaming I think this mode has a slower lag, so may not be useful for you? Most games you will have to punch up the Gamma a bit to see what is going on.
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post #2696 of 2897 Old 08-15-2011, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agisthos View Post

Like I said before chemi, I was not able to calibrate any setting that did not crush shadow detail, unless it was Motionflow Clear 2 (Clear Plus).

But for Gaming I think this mode has a slower lag, so may not be useful for you? Most games you will have to punch up the Gamma a bit to see what is going on.

The settings given by Blackvette94 and Doug Blackbourn are not optimal?
I want to put on Motionflow off for a better input lag...
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post #2697 of 2897 Old 08-15-2011, 08:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viper2847 View Post

Uh the crease issue? The wobbly stand? The fact that it looks/feels like a giant piece of wobbly plastic next to the rock solid glass structure that the 909 has?

I got both of them and its just a painfully obvious downgrade for build quality on the 929 compared to the 909. Do you really think Sony will give a 55" full local dimming model for less money than a 52" only a year later without cutting down the cost to build it?

I was asking a question, not questioning the 909's integrity. You seem a bit on edge. But I appreciate your observations.

AJ
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post #2698 of 2897 Old 08-15-2011, 09:20 PM
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On edge indeed, straining credibility.
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post #2699 of 2897 Old 08-15-2011, 09:38 PM
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There are a gazillion posts on this forum discussing the cheaper build quality of the 929 vs the 909, and Viper reponse was one of exasperation.
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post #2700 of 2897 Old 08-15-2011, 10:55 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WiWavelength View Post

I was asking a question, not questioning the 909's integrity. You seem a bit on edge. But I appreciate your observations.

AJ

Didnt mean it in an aggressive way. Sorry, sometimes its hard to understand how a message is conveyed through a forum...
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