Official Sony XBR HX909 owners' thread (52HX909, 46HX909, HX9, HX900) - Page 91 - AVS Forum
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post #2701 of 2897 Old 08-15-2011, 11:57 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chs4000 View Post

On edge indeed, straining credibility.

Maybe it seems a bit harsh, and im sorry about that as I didnt mean it that way, but how is it not credible? I have both sets here...
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post #2702 of 2897 Old 08-16-2011, 12:15 AM
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I have both as well but don't spend my time touching them.
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post #2703 of 2897 Old 08-16-2011, 08:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agisthos View Post

But let me first say that you will not see what this TV can do, until you get a quality blu-ray player such as the Oppo-93 or better. Do not listen to those idiots who say all 24p blu-ray players look the same. They do not, especially on a well calibrated set.

Nonsense. The only difference between competent Blu-ray players is the chroma upsampling, and the bit-depth of the processing. The effects of this are minor at best, and I would put money on people not being able to tell the difference on these sets. (and if you are not in the game/graphics modes, you will not see a difference in chroma upsampling)

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Originally Posted by Agisthos View Post

Sharpness: 0

this is removing detail from the image. Sharpness should be at 50 on these sets.

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Originally Posted by Agisthos View Post

I should mention that you are totally going the wrong way by using Doug Blackbourne's settings of Backlight 2, Clear 1 and Gamma -2. These settings will make shadow detail completely crushed and the picture will overall look too dark.

The gamma control on these sets works as it should, affecting midtone contrast rather than crushing shadow detail.

-2 will have the display around a 2.4 gamma average, ideal for film.
-1 is around 2.2, ideal for computer/game use.

Anything else is effectively "wrong". (but you may wish to raise gamma in a bright room to compensate for less than ideal viewing conditions)

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Originally Posted by Agisthos View Post

Also, this Tv seems suceptible to dirty AC mains. The use of a power conditioner and good cables noticably removed picture grain and hash.

Oh boy

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Originally Posted by Agisthos View Post

Also, setting the color mode output on the blu-ray players themself is important, but it seems to vary from player to player. The Sony S370 needs to be set to output YCBCR, and cannot achieve deep blacks in any of it's RGB modes.

Sounds like a levels mismatch. (likely video levels output to the display set to PC levels)

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Originally Posted by Agisthos View Post

These settings are correct when calibrating from a starting point of Motionflow OFF or Clear 1. But in this mode shadow detail is crushed. To uncrush, using those settings, you must raise gamma to 0 or +1, or raise the backlight. But by doing any of this, the image loses vividness and punch, because it has moved out of the sweetspot. So yes, those calibrated settings are correct for that mode. But using Clear 2 to begin with get's you the best image, for blu-ray anyway.

Backlight / motionflow has no appreciable effect on gamma. However, you may feel the need to raise the gamma if the image is not bright enough for the ambient lighting conditions.



And for what it's worth, I'm still really happy with the set after nine months of ownership. Just recently, I re-measured it to do a touch-up calibration (which was long overdue) only to find that it did not need any changes made. There wasn't even a drop in brightness. I had calibrated to 80 nits, and that's what it still measures today. This is the least amount of drift I have measured from any display so far, even compared to other LED LCDs.

It isn't perfect, but it's going to take a lot for me to want to upgrade now. I just don't see the need, and display technology doesn't really seem to be advancing much these daysthinner, lighter and cheaper is not an upgrade. It would have to be something like a 4K resolution screen (I use mine as a monitor a lot) or OLEDs now.
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post #2704 of 2897 Old 08-16-2011, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewfee View Post

Nonsense. The only difference between competent Blu-ray players is the chroma upsampling, and the bit-depth of the processing. The effects of this are minor at best, and I would put money on people not being able to tell the difference on these sets. (and if you are not in the game/graphics modes, you will not see a difference in chroma upsampling)

It seems those who hold this opinion never do side by side, settings consistant comparisons. There was no basically no difference between the Sony and Marantz players. But the Oppo was a noticable step up in 24p blu-ray ouput.
If you would rather rely on spec theory to tell you what performs better, your loss.

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Originally Posted by andrewfee View Post

this is removing detail from the image. Sharpness should be at 50 on these sets.

On certain scene modes, Sharpness between 0-50 is OFF, and makes no difference in that range.

Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewfee View Post

The gamma control on these sets works as it should, affecting midtone contrast rather than crushing shadow detail.

-2 will have the display around a 2.4 gamma average, ideal for film.
-1 is around 2.2, ideal for computer/game use.

I should point out my results come from using a Maylasian built 240v variant of this screen. The different factory setup could be responsible for this issue. But it is not just myself. Rasmus Larsen on flatpanelshd had the same opinion re the 909 and 929.

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Another aspect of the local dimming system is that fact that it can crush shadow detailing in very dark movie scenes and games.

And we saw that on HX929, too. As said in the calibration section HX929 did not provide us with perfect gamma and gamma was too high in the dark end of the grey tone scale. Therefore some of the very dark grey colors are reproduced as black, which means that detailing in very dark areas of pictures is lost.

I fully concur and thought I must have been seeing things compared to the reviews claiming this TV to have good shadow detail. I would say average-poor, especially when compared to the latest Sharp edge LED I played with.

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Originally Posted by andrewfee View Post

Backlight / motionflow has no appreciable effect on gamma. However, you may feel the need to raise the gamma if the image is not bright enough for the ambient lighting conditions.

Of course Andrew !! I was using the tv during the day !! no wonder the picture seemed so dark ??!! Give me a break.

All calibration and testing I do in pitch darkness. The Clear 1, Backlight 2, Gamma -2 settings are a correct technical calibration, but shadow detail is smashed and pushed to black. Literally most shadow detail unseeable, even in decently lit scenes.

I am open to the variance in opinion being because of 240v and different factory builds, but what I see is unmistakable. Going to Clear 2 and Backlight 7 repairs this poor shadow performance and makes the image watchable, without having to pump brightness and gamma for visibility. Calibrating from a starting point of Clear 2/Plus will give a better result.
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post #2705 of 2897 Old 08-16-2011, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agisthos View Post

It seems those who hold this opinion never do side by side, settings consistant comparisons. There was no basically no difference between the Sony and Marantz players. But the Oppo was a noticable step up in 24p blu-ray ouput.
If you would rather rely on spec theory to tell you what performs better, your loss.

I have compared three players, two PS3s (fat and slimnote: the fat has a better HDMI output, the slim introdues noise into the image with everything) and now use a PC as my primary source for Blu-ray playback. Blu-ray looks the same on all when levels are set up properly. The only difference is chroma upsampling and bit-depth, which are almost negligible and have no effect on how detailed the image is.

A good friend of mine also does work authoring DVDs and Blu-rays and says the same thing.
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Originally Posted by Agisthos View Post

On certain scene modes, Sharpness between 0-50 is OFF, and makes no difference in that range.

On some images (sharpness test patterns even) lowering sharpness to 0 does not appear to have a negative effect on the image. 50 is the neutral setting on these displays, however. Set up a general scene preset with sharpness at 0, and Cinema at 50. Use the Theatre button on the remote to toggle between them. On actual HD content (preferably a well-mastered Blu-ray) the difference should be quite noticeable. Any higher than 50 is adding sharpness and lower is removing detail from the image.

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Originally Posted by Agisthos View Post

I should point out my results come from using a Maylasian built 240v variant of this screen. The different factory setup could be responsible for this issue. But it is not just myself. Rasmus Larsen on flatpanelshd had the same opinion re the 909 and 929.

My set is a 230v 903 and my results matched up with Doug Blackburn's 909 review unit. I doubt there are regional differences with the displays. I have not seen the service manual for this particular set, but Sony usually have fairly tight guidelines for that sort of thing.

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Originally Posted by Agisthos View Post

I fully concur and thought I must have been seeing things compared to the reviews claiming this TV to have good shadow detail. I would say average-poor, especially when compared to the latest Sharp edge LED I played with.

Gamma is not perfect, but it is not crushing shadow details, they are fully resolved.

As for the 929, the results for gamma seem pretty good: http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/sony-...1108021318.htm (measured with a Klein K10)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agisthos View Post

All calibration and testing I do in pitch darkness. The Clear 1, Backlight 2, Gamma -2 settings are a correct technical calibration, but shadow detail is smashed and pushed to black. Literally most shadow detail unseeable, even in decently lit scenes.

Sounds like another levels mis-match. A "technically correct" calibration is correctit's how the image was intended to look.

Can you give examples of content where shadow details are crushed, or measurements taken from your display? The only control that should affect shadow details being lost is the brightness control. (raising gamma can over-emphasise them at the expense of midtone contrast, but it does not recover lost detail)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agisthos View Post

I am open to the variance in opinion being because of 240v and different factory builds, but what I see is unmistakable. Going to Clear 2 and Backlight 7 repairs this poor shadow performance and makes the image watchable, without having to pump brightness and gamma for visibility. Calibrating from a starting point of Clear 2/Plus will give a better result.

I have measured my display in all motionflow modes. Without making any other changes, the closest match is:
Clear 2/Plus, Backlight 10
Clear 1, Backlight 2
Other, Backlight 1

These should all produce an image of roughly 80 nits in brightness. (which is the EBU recommended brightness for studio monitors in an ideal environment)

Changing the motionflow mode does not affect gamma at all, or have any effect on shadow detail, but you do have to raise the backlight setting to keep light output consistent.
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post #2706 of 2897 Old 08-16-2011, 02:53 PM
 
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Originally Posted by chs4000 View Post
I have both as well but don't spend my time touching them.
Neither do i, its obvious to me just by simply looking at them that the build quality on the 929 is crap compared to the 909. Oh, and im pretty sure when setting them up you had to touch them...
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post #2707 of 2897 Old 08-16-2011, 09:08 PM
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Guys

I was thinking of buying this for my 46 inch. However, I'm not sure if the studs in my 1 bedroom apt are within 16 inches apart or not and this tv stand will only work if studs are within 16 inches

http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2

My super is going to come help me install this but I can't ask him to come in twice...

Do you guys recommend any other wall mount which does not have this limitation? I'm asking the super to do a favor and he wants to be in and out in 15 mins

Thanks
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post #2708 of 2897 Old 08-17-2011, 06:18 AM
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any somebody give me a few stength and weaknesses of this tv
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post #2709 of 2897 Old 08-18-2011, 06:44 AM
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Folks

After I turn on my TV, it doesn't respond to any commands for the first 20 seconds or so. If I do a volume up, it may work occassionally but won't show the volume bar on the screen. If I tune to channel 41, it may only take 4

After the first 20 seconds, it works perfect

IS ANYBODY else noticing this behavior?

Thanks
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post #2710 of 2897 Old 08-18-2011, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sam008 View Post

Guys

I was thinking of buying this for my 46 inch. However, I'm not sure if the studs in my 1 bedroom apt are within 16 inches apart or not and this tv stand will only work if studs are within 16 inches

http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2

My super is going to come help me install this but I can't ask him to come in twice...

Do you guys recommend any other wall mount which does not have this limitation? I'm asking the super to do a favor and he wants to be in and out in 15 mins

Thanks

your super will know what to do no worries , he may just put a a small piece of plywood behind the drywall from stud to stud then mount the display

Samsung PN59D8000 Plasma Calibrated with fbr fix
Samsung ln52b750 Lcd ccfl

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post #2711 of 2897 Old 08-18-2011, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by sam008 View Post

Folks

After I turn on my TV, it doesn't respond to any commands for the first 20 seconds or so. If I do a volume up, it may work occassionally but won't show the volume bar on the screen. If I tune to channel 41, it may only take 4

After the first 20 seconds, it works perfect

IS ANYBODY else noticing this behavior?

Thanks

Mine is 24 seconds. The ones in the store were the same way.
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post #2712 of 2897 Old 08-19-2011, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sam008 View Post

Folks

After I turn on my TV, it doesn't respond to any commands for the first 20 seconds or so. If I do a volume up, it may work occassionally but won't show the volume bar on the screen. If I tune to channel 41, it may only take 4

After the first 20 seconds, it works perfect

IS ANYBODY else noticing this behavior?

Thanks

That is normal. WHY it does that, I don't know but I can take a guess. I think it is booting up, loading whatever it needs to load into memory and running processes. Things like that have no affect on me whatsoever, due to the perfect picture I'm getting.

Also, I read in this thread that Sony is outsourcing the manufacturing of all its TVs? Is this a true statement?

I also just want to add I've been using Netflix watching old episodes of Battlestar Galactica. Haven't had any issues, but do wish the sound was Dolby Digital.
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post #2713 of 2897 Old 08-19-2011, 06:04 PM
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On some black and white video, I see an odd kind of effect whereby there's this vertical kind of white smearing/ghosting that typically rises up from the images on the screen. Wish I had a pick right now. Sometimes it simply looks like a kind of thin white light the starts at the top of the item and shoots straight up. Does anyone else have this? Is this inherent in some black and white film? Is this an LED problem? Am I losing it? Thanks.
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post #2714 of 2897 Old 08-23-2011, 03:45 AM
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any1 know why common standard and current input standard is different? i notice the settings change a bit
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post #2715 of 2897 Old 08-23-2011, 03:58 PM
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2 questions everyone:

What extended warranty are the best? I have done some research and this forum used to like Mack warranties on these tv's. Is this still true?

Are there any updates to the TV that allows playable avi's through DLNA?

Comment:
Loving the bdp-s780. The 3d looks better and certain avi's play through this, but at least they are recognized unlike the tv....
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post #2716 of 2897 Old 08-26-2011, 03:41 PM
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post #2717 of 2897 Old 08-26-2011, 06:24 PM
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In 3D, motionflow isn't available on the 909, yet it is available in 3D on the 929 and, from what I've read, makes a difference. Any chance/possibility Sony could release a patch to make this available and enhance 3D on the 909 or is the technology itself too limiting? Thx.

Always looking for ways to increase the (3D) viewing experience.
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post #2718 of 2897 Old 08-27-2011, 10:52 PM
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With a firmware patch it is possible.
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post #2719 of 2897 Old 08-28-2011, 04:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Opentoe View Post

With a firmware patch it is possible.

Possibly, but can the technology itself on the 909 support such a patch?
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post #2720 of 2897 Old 08-30-2011, 03:00 PM
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Anyone?! warranties? patch for better avi dlna support?
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post #2721 of 2897 Old 08-31-2011, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slider2828 View Post
Anyone?! warranties? patch for better avi dlna support?
Why would anyone expect new features like AVI support or Motionflow to be added to a discontinued set? It wasn't an advertised feature of the TV when you bought it:

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Originally Posted by HX909 Specifications
DLNA : Renderer (Photo/JPEG); Renderer (Music/LPCM,MP3); Renderer (Video/MPEG2,AVCHD); Client (Photo/JPEG); Client (Music/LPCM,MP3); Client (Video/MPEG2,AVCHD)
Better get transcoding.

About the only thing I'm expecting at this point is a rejiggering of the Internet Video/Network sources, because they killed off/re-branded their Qrocity service today as the "Sony Entertainment Network". http://uk.playstation.com/ps3/news/a...medium=twitter

Got to keep making money off of those video rentals, you know.
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post #2722 of 2897 Old 09-03-2011, 09:22 PM
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Hi - I have a question about the HX909 and screen uniformity. When displaying a completely white image, part of my screen - the upper left corner and somewhat along the top edge and top right corner - has a bluer tinged white; then the screen gets gradually whiter and then kind of smoggy yellow-white towards the middle-left. It's still a white screen, it's just as if the luminance varies in different parts of the screen. Does that make sense? This issue is also visible in non-white screens. For example, a light blue sky will look brighter in the top left corner, then kind of smoggy in the middle (please see attached picture). I compared this to another unit and it didn't do this nearly as much, if at all. Unfortunately, the one that does cost $950 and the one that doesn't costs 1,199. Rationally, I don't think it's worth $250 for a slightly more uniform screen, but I'm not the most rational person when it comes to such things. Is the issue I'm describing what others here would refer to as screen uniformity or DSE issues? Is it foolish to consider paying $250 more for a more uniform backlight?

Thanks :-)
LL
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post #2723 of 2897 Old 09-03-2011, 10:58 PM
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post #2724 of 2897 Old 09-04-2011, 04:06 PM
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Received this info from Sony. Just in case someone wants to check it out.

Michael
LL
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post #2725 of 2897 Old 09-04-2011, 05:11 PM
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Hi all.

I've had the 46HX909 for several weeks now. Really enjoying this set. I decided on it after deciding against a Panny plasma for audible buzz & floating blacks, and against an EX720 for the annoying clouding/flashlighting. Needless to say, the HX909 is looks great.

One nagging question has to do with motion handling. I'm noticing blur in the form of ghosting/strobing during quick movement on Blu Rays and DVDs. It usually takes the form of a slight double arm, leg or head as a character moves across the screen. It happens with or without Motionflow activated, though I usually keep it off and it seems to be worst in that case. If I pause the frame, I will see significant blur in the source, but not the doubling effect.

A lot of research here and elsewhere leads me to believe it's either 1) LCD's "sample and hold" effect; 2) my eyes; or 3) [most likely] the nature of 24fps playback. If it's the latter, I presume I'd still be seeing this effect if I'd stuck with a plasma?

Anyway, just hoping someone here could confirm what I'm seeing. It happens in pretty much everywhere, but a good example is Chapter 15 of the Star Trek: Generations Blu Ray, where you're seeing lots of quick action with dark uniforms against a bright desert background.

Many thanks in advance!
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post #2726 of 2897 Old 09-05-2011, 10:49 AM
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I`ve not been able to find a definitive answer to this but was advised to run componant cables from my Directv box rather than HDMI,which struck me as very odd.Also,the guy who told me this refered to a review by Doug Blackburn who also stated that componants give a sharper image over the HDMI. I`d never heard of anyone ever prefering componant over HDMI but when I try it,it sure looks better. This seems really wierd...am I missing something? Is there a concensus on this? I also am feeding PS3 to the set with the HDMI cable as there is no componant outlet from PS3.....First post here and obviously a greenhorn but any help or enlightenment would be recieved very gratefully.
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post #2727 of 2897 Old 09-05-2011, 03:01 PM
 
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Id just stick with HDMI for all sources. My HD box looks just fine with HDMI to the 909.
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post #2728 of 2897 Old 09-05-2011, 03:25 PM
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Thanks Viper....I have tried swaping to the HDMI from my Directv and yet going back to the Component source shows this to be a noticably sharper picture. My bewilderment stems from the reasoning that you suggest;that HDMI is always best...here it`s not and it`s making me nuts!
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post #2729 of 2897 Old 09-05-2011, 09:43 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TELSTARS View Post

Thanks Viper....I have tried swaping to the HDMI from my Directv and yet going back to the Component source shows this to be a noticably sharper picture. My bewilderment stems from the reasoning that you suggest;that HDMI is always best...here it`s not and it`s making me nuts!

Are you sure the TV isnt overscanning the picture? This will cause it to look much softer.

Go under the "screen" settings and make sure for 720p its set to +1 and for 1080i/p its set to "full pixel".

The PQ should be sharper or at least equal to component when connected via HDMI for any component.
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post #2730 of 2897 Old 09-06-2011, 07:52 AM
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Thanks again Viper...Ill give that a shot today and let you know....ithe set has been set to Full Pixel all the time, I do know that so I`ll see what your suggestion delivers.I am aware though that this phenomenon of using different inputs into various units has a varying results. For example,when I had Dish Network a few year ago,an S cable from the reciever to a Sanyo projector I had at the time produced a better picture than when I ran component cables. Same phenomenon happening now with components delivering better than HDMI....In that Doug Blacburn review of the Sony HX909 though,the gentleman did catogoracally state that he achieved better crispness in his picture using RGB Component inputs...I`m just surprised there hasn`t been a multitude more responses to this very elementary, basic situation....but as I said,Iam not at all tech savvy so maybe I`m misunderstanding something...love the set btw just a little bewidered by this and I appreciate your kind help Viper.
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