Samsung Auto Motion Plus not HD Compatible? - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 156 Old 07-30-2012, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ticmxman View Post

My 3 week old ES7100 has the judder issue if I use AMP on any setting other than clear or off and while I may decide I do not like the smoothing effect I would like for it to work properly as an option. Is this purely a software issue that Samsung can fix with a update or is it hardware related and will they provide a fix? Also do other brands of LEDs have similar problems? I looked at the LG LM7600 and 8600 this weekend and they have some appeal.
I'm pretty sure it's partly software related. I have seen other TV's do this and even tested the movies I use as a sort of primer on a Vizio 120Hz LCD. The same problem occurs but with nowhere near the flicker and artifacting as my Samsung. It has something to do with the way the interpolated frames are calculated. The Vizio did a much better than my Samsung at similar settings. Can they fix it with a firmware update, I don't know since this has apparently been a 3-year ongoing issue. I have yet to hear back from them. The best thing you can do is call and make it a point that you are dissatisfied with the issues and that you have read on many forums that you aren't the only one.
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post #92 of 156 Old 08-03-2012, 04:06 AM
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I have updated firmware for my ES7090 and its a little better then before. There are still stutters, but significantly less.
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post #93 of 156 Old 09-07-2012, 09:41 AM
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Has anybody been successful in complaining to Samsung? The SamyGo web site has not been up-dated since the original posting by the software engineer that indicated he had a solution.

It still seems to be a problem.
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post #94 of 156 Old 09-08-2012, 09:26 AM
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I wrote an email to the office of the president. They called me back after the 3rd time I emailed them. They acted like they were working on a solution but it sounded more like they were kissing my butt so I would leave it alone.
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post #95 of 156 Old 09-08-2012, 11:15 AM
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Out of curiosity, did they understand that multiple threads here are all complaining about the same thing and that included their 2012 models as well? Do you think more e-mailing by forum members might help them to be a bit more definitive about a solution?

They probably would not like the fact that an engineer posting on SammyGo seems to know what the problem is and that a model change in the service menu cured the problem. Perhaps they should communicate with that individual.
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post #96 of 156 Old 09-08-2012, 12:01 PM
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They seemed to understand. They asked for specific examples in certain movies. I don't know if they know about the engineer posting on SamyGo or not. I was told by a service tech that a model change would void the warranty. I explained that I had seen it in several forums and that it had been ongoing for years. I also explained that I found it disturbing that in other Q and A forums, I saw a "Samsung HD Tech," answer questions about this problem with "turn the judder reduction off" as the solution. I shouldn't have to turn the feature off to fix it. I think it would be a great idea if more forum members emailed them. The email address is officeofpresident@sea.samsung.com.
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post #97 of 156 Old 09-19-2012, 06:23 AM
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Have you had any further replies from Samsung regarding the issue? It seems like that if they really care about this, they would keep you informed. Considering this problem goes back quite a while, I fear that all we are going to get is polite lip service and nothing more.
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post #98 of 156 Old 09-19-2012, 02:52 PM
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I haven't had any more contact with Samsung. They haven't emailed or called. There is a new update out as of yesterday. All of the updates state that they improve picture quality, yet I haven't noticed any change. I'm pretty sure they aren't planning on contacting me any further. We have 2 choices really. We can all write letters to the office of the president or just buy Panasonic.smile.gif
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post #99 of 156 Old 09-19-2012, 04:53 PM
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I have also sent an e-mail to the president and outlined the problem again and how you have been responsed to to or lack thereof. I also mentioned I recently purchased a large Samsung appliance and expressed my concerns over how issues are treated by Samsung as a whole.

We'll see what type of response I get.

I find it outrageous that this has been going on for several model years and that nothing can be done. This issue does not exists with Samsung's competitors for the most part. If they can handle it, why not Samsung?
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post #100 of 156 Old 09-19-2012, 07:55 PM
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Yeah I mentioned that I install several home theaters a year. It's a little side project I do. I mentioned how I will have a hard time recommending Samsung when Panasonic and Sharp don't seem to have the problem. They sounded concerned, but it could have just sounded that way. Keep me posted, I am curious how it will turn out for you.
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post #101 of 156 Old 09-20-2012, 12:14 PM
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According to posts in the ES8000 thread, some believe that there is nothing at all wrong with the AMP setting, and any stuttering or dropped frames are due to poor cable boxes/signals not handling the frames correctly, and it's not a fault of AMP. I do not accept this. Like everybody else in here, the only setting that works is clear. Anything else including custom just stutters or drops frames. I think it's rotten that we get a "choice" of all these different modes but only 1 works. What is it about clear that works and nothing else does? I'm tired of mentioning it in the ES8000 thread because it's clear that some just won't accept that there's an issue with AMP.

I've tried with 720p, 1080i, component, HDMI...always the same results - stuttering unless I use clear, or turn it off.
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post #102 of 156 Old 09-20-2012, 01:39 PM
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Amen! Even the reviewers of the 2011 models indicate there is a concern with the AMP and offer all sorts of adjustments to the AMP in custom mode. The only thing one reviewer to do to totally eliminate the AMP issue was to put the T.V. into game mode. Even Samsung acknowledges doing so reduces resolution and basically eliminates most picture adjustments.

I agree that some cable broadcasts can cause problems especially with film material, but how do you explain a live sporting function like baseball or basketball?

Clear does seems to help, but doesn't really eliminate the problem completely.

When I e-mailed the president I did mention about the engineer on SamyGo that believes the threshold for kicking in AMP is set too high and that off, it kicks in and that really seems to be where the problem starts. The engineer claimed by changing a model number, the problem disappeared completely.

The competition has no real issues with this like Samsung.

I am concerned Samsung is just paying lip service and that we eventually will go away. That hasn't always worked like the bulging capacitors on their models 3 or 4 years ago and the great "my 6000 series does not display 1080P 3-D" fiasco in Germany when Samsung wound up exchanging T.V's and dropping the full HD 3-D logo off the boxes.

Technical support is no real help as many of them just respond with scripts they have.

My D7000 has a gorgeous picture, but the stuttering, jerkiness just ruins the experience.

Why can't Samsung come clean? Everyone needs to e-mail the president.
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post #103 of 156 Old 09-20-2012, 03:08 PM
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That's funny you mention the capacitor issue, that's how I got this un46es6500 in the first place. See my earlier post. The only reason that the clear setting works is because it basically turns off the judder reduction. I too have tried it with different cables. I just use an outdoor antenna for local HD channels with quad shield RG6. I have a Sammy bluray player and everything else is streamed from network storage. No matter which source I use, the problem exists. My favorite solution on other websites is where an actual "Samsung HD Tech" answers this problem with the solution of turning off AMP. A SAMSUNG TECH SAYS THAT WITH THE SAMSUNG LOGO STAMPED NEXT TO HIS ANSWER! Pathetic!
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post #104 of 156 Old 09-20-2012, 03:51 PM
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The true fear of course is that Samsung will say this is not a defect, that it is part of the video processing. The capacitors were a true defect and the not- HD-3-D was mis-advertising, just about as bad as a true defect. I want them to explain how Sony and others don't have this problem as bad if at all.

I know all T.V's will have some measurable problems --- bleeding, clouding, banding, etc., but a lot of the time that may not be as noticeable, but when the picture jerks and skips, that is really noticeable.

I have had people comment on that while watching the T.V.

As far as turning it off, good luck! My nephew has a 6000 series and wen AMP is turned off, the picture becomes difficult to watch at all when it occurs.
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post #105 of 156 Old 09-21-2012, 07:06 PM
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Yeah mine has very minor clouding, but it's an edge-lit TV. I expect it a little bit. Fortunately, there is no bleeding or banding that I have noticed and I am very picky. I don't turn the AMP off. Like I said, I enjoy it. I see no reason for me to turn it off. It should work like it's supposed to. I don't know if it has anything to do with adding fake frames vs. adding black frames the way some older TVs used to interpolate. Who knows? All I know is that I recently installed one of those massive 70" Sharp Aquos 120Hz LED TVs and it doesn't have that problem at all that I can see. If Sharp can do it, why can't Samsung?
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post #106 of 156 Old 09-22-2012, 01:10 PM
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I was contacted by telephone from Samsung. Imagine that! I have issues with bleeding and stick pixels, but pushed the AMP question. However, all during the conversation, the issue of the AMP was at best circumvented and just centering on getting pictures of the bleeding and stuck pixels. Before I hung up with them, I reiterated that the AMP was the biggest issue and when that would be fixed. No answer. I told them that I know that taped broadcasts, etc. can have compression issues that cause the jerkiness, but not really on a live boradcast, specially sports.

Aagain, more lip service by Samsung. But if they want to play the game, I will play it to the fullest. I had challenged them on their poor customer service and people just reading from scripts.

As I indicated, I could live with the other issues, but Samsung wants to make this the center of their call.

We'll see what happens.
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post #107 of 156 Old 09-22-2012, 08:02 PM
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I wouldn't have expected any differently from your call. Sounds like a typical conversation with Samsung.
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post #108 of 156 Old 09-23-2012, 04:53 AM
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Thought I would change my post since the one I replied to no longer exists...Weird. Yeah talking with Samsung is like talking to a salesman. They tell you what you want to hear without telling you anything. I wonder what they would do if you started asking stuff like "Would the AMP problems go away if you were inserting black frames instead of the interpolated frames you use now? I don't remember these problems in the days of black frame interpolation." Their heads would prolly explode because it doesn't say anything about that on their cards they read from. I am keeping the TV I have now and unless something changes, I will just stop buying or installing their TVs.
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post #109 of 156 Old 09-27-2012, 01:47 PM
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Cooperjs1 --- Just an up-date. Samsung is reviewing my pictures of the light bleed and stuck pixels, but nothing mentioned or resolved on the AMP issue at all.

As a side note, I read the CNET review of the new ES8000 and the reviewer seems to believe that the when in clear or customer (Judder=0, Blur=10) that the cadence is being properly processed. How is it that this issue may have been solved for the new series not not others? I quote ---

"In terms of motion resolution all modes, with the exception of Off, delivered the full 1,200 lines in my test, and Clear looked the best of the bunch, with a bit less trailing than the rest. To get the full resolution I set Custom's "blur reduction slider" to 10. If you've been paying attention, that means that in Custom, at 0 "judder reduction" and 10 "blur reduction" the UNES8000 actually delivered full motion resolution and correct film cadence, a feat few TVs can match."

This kind of corresponds to the SamyGo forum threat engineer that changed his model to a higher one to apparently solve the problem.

Also, the thread on the ES8000 shows that they are having major issues with the Micro Dimming Ultra and the CE Dimming. So, the ES8000 is not without issues too!
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post #110 of 156 Old 09-27-2012, 04:29 PM
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Yeah, I understand that it has true film cadence. I can appreciate that. What I want is the soap opera effect. If I can get it flawlessly with a Sharp TV, I should be able to get it with a Samsung. The CNET reviews are getting out of hand and biased lately. I am just not a film purist. I want to feel like I'm there, that's what I like about the soap opera effect. I shouldn't have to settle for second best when I buy Samsung.
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post #111 of 156 Old 09-28-2012, 06:46 AM
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I agree with you. IMHO the manufacturers have lost sight of what a TV is for - it's not an iPad, it's not a computer. They throw every thing onto the TV in hopes of outdoing the competition. The majority of the people really do not know the ins and outs of the TV's as to what they or can not do.

My only major complaint is that te manufacturers need to put up or shut up. If they advertise something, it must work -- period.

They can't hide behind excuses until the cow come home.

I really like my 7000, but now it becomes a matter of principal. I know that sounds trite, but we all work hard to make the money we do and we have the right, yes the right, to get a product that performs. The TV is a major investment, not something you can throw away once a month or once a year.
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post #112 of 156 Old 10-20-2012, 03:44 AM
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Cibo --- know it's pointless to ask, but I'll do it anyway. has there been any further word from Samsung or have you contacted them about the issue anymore?
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post #113 of 156 Old 10-22-2012, 01:58 PM
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Timing is everything --- I was contacted by Samsung's president's office and went through the scenario about bleeding, stuck pixels and the AMP. They asked for pictures. I sent them. Then they asked for pictures using the test patterns and specifics on what movies, time of the occurrence. I sent more pictures and indicated that the AMP is a serious problem on live action and then followed-up with a movie I remembered had problems throughout. They suggested I up-date to the new firmware. I sent them text from their web site showing the 1025.1 firmware with nothing new and nothing to do with the AMP.

I waited a week --- no response. Send another e-mail. It's been another week and I plan to send an e-mail and to let them know that this is not professional to say the least.

All through this, with the exception of mentioning the recent firmware that addresses this issue, which was not mentioned at all, Samsung keeps avoiding an answer.

People need to keep reminding Samsung it's a known issue and to do something about.

We'll see if they response after this e-mail or I will call and pester them.
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post #114 of 156 Old 10-24-2012, 07:28 AM
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Hello Everyone,

I have sad news...I have abandoned Samsung. I am a long time Samsung fan and owner. I have owned every series of their LCD's since the alpha models. However, I have crossed over to Panasonic. After being frustrated with AMP and how Samsung keeps adding more features and features without fixing the actual picture quality of the panels I decided to try a different brand. I bought a Panasonic GT50 plasma and I am very glad I did. Not only is the picture really great, but when I turn on their equivalent to AMP there are no dropped frames. There are still the usual interpolation artifacts here and there, but it doesn’t skip and jerk like all my Samsung’s did. I do not know if Samsung will ever address this issue, but if you like the smoothing affect like I do you may want to consider Panasonic or even Sony, I hear their motion processing is good as well.
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post #115 of 156 Old 10-24-2012, 09:24 AM
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It's always sad to see people who have had a history with a company leave because the company lacks integrity and honesty about their products. Like Samsung, L.G. has also been plagued with problems of their quality control and lack of promises to initiate their motion flow in some of their T.V.'s. Sony took a lot of heat in 2011, but has come back strong in 2012. You would think Samsung mike see and object lesson here.

It would appear that Samsung and others just depend upon people not knowing anything about any of the issues or concerns people like us have had. I guess ignorance is bliss.

My D7000 had excellent reviews and the picture has for the most part been excellent including the H303 panel. 3-D is great too, but the AMP just totally destroys enjoyable viewing.

With me now, it's the principle of the matter. I am not going to give up until I have exhausted all possibilities.

Good luck with your Panasonic!
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post #116 of 156 Old 10-24-2012, 10:59 AM
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It is unfortunate. Samsung does so many things right but seems to abandon so many others. I have yet to try their plasmas out but there LED's have many strengths. I had the D8000 from last year and the PQ was great. But again there was frame dropping. They seem to go in weird directions at times. Like, the D8000 model had an implementation of micro dimming that could actually shut off some of the LED's. The letterbox bars were off and it greatly added to the PQ. However, this year they removed that from the 8000 and that was one of the reasons I started to look elsewhere. Thanks again and I hope that Samsung or some super tech user figures out a fix. I still have my Sammy's and I would love to crank up AMP on them.
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post #117 of 156 Old 10-24-2012, 02:27 PM
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I found a technical analysis of the issue and where it needs to be addressed on the internet and sent it to Samsung. Did you think I would get a reply? Nothing. This is not as serious as the lack of full 3D on the 2011 6000 series in Germany or the bulging capacitors on some of the earlier models, so I don't think there is a case against Samsung since the T.V.'s otherwise operate O.K.
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post #118 of 156 Old 10-24-2012, 04:16 PM
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I think one of the reasons that Samsung can or has not addressed the issue is because it is hard to recreate. If you rewind the content it won’t happen again in the same place. Too bad there is not a source material that really puts AMP through its paces so it would behave more predictably. It is like trying to anticipate where a lightning bolt will strike. It never happens in the same manner twice. I wonder if I watched a movie enough that AMP will eventually drop every frame and fix itself....lol.
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post #119 of 156 Old 10-24-2012, 04:22 PM
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I had to add another post because it wouldn't let me edit the previous one....

But I wanted to add that I actually like AMP over the other motion implementations. If you remove the frame skip/drop, in my opinion, AMP looks much better than the other manufacturers. That is what I liked about Samsung. There is an infinite amount of variations you can make with the separate sliders for judder and blur and if you dial it in just right it looks great....albeit the annoying frame drops. It ruins the whole experience. Anyway, I hope to read someday that one of the models corrects this. Maybe when OLED roles out they will have a fix....or when 4K TVs and movies are more popular.
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post #120 of 156 Old 10-24-2012, 05:37 PM
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I agree. I love the AMP features as well as the range of customization. I enjoy the real life "soap opera effect." I wish Samsung would get it straightened out, but as it stands, so many other manufacturers have them beat on interpolation. Sharp TVs are nearly flawless. I am pretty sure this will be last Samsung. I have studied the Panasonics quite a bit and I am really leaning that direction. I have grown tired of Samsung ignoring the problem.
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