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post #3631 of 5123 Old 03-21-2011, 02:05 PM
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Otto, you gotta get yourself a cheap BR player, if just for doing your own calibration

You seem like the tinkering type!
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post #3632 of 5123 Old 03-21-2011, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by VBB View Post

Otto, you gotta get yourself a cheap BR player, if just for doing your own calibration

You seem like the tinkering type!

I am the tinkering type, you ought to see my "McGyver" garage but until I'm done with my VHS ->DVD taping project, another player would not pass the Finance Committe Chairman (or shoud I say Chairwoman).
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post #3633 of 5123 Old 03-21-2011, 02:24 PM
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I know what you mean. My CFO was surprisingly cooperative when it came to my latest acquisition
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post #3634 of 5123 Old 03-21-2011, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by VBB View Post

I know what you mean. My CFO was surprisingly cooperative when it came to my latest acquisition

I'm really happy with my current OTA cals after the changes I mentioned, it's just that if there's one more little tweak that would make it even better...... my wife is seriously thinking about having me committed or at the very least enrolling me in a CA (Calibrator's Anonymous) 12-step program
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post #3635 of 5123 Old 03-21-2011, 11:01 PM
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Otto: I didn't forget you. I've been away and I thought I had the settings in the laptop I took with me but I was wrong.

Remember I have a 52ld550

Picture Mode: Expert 1
Backlight: 62
Contrast: 92
Brightness: 46

H Sharpness: 60
V Sharpness: 55
Color: 59
Tint: 0

Dynamic contrast: Off
Noise reduction: Off
Digital Noise Reduction: Off
Black level: Low
Real Cinema: On
Color Gamut: RT709
Edge Enhancer: Off
Color Filter: Off
Color Temperature: Medium


Picture Mode: Cinema
Backlight: 61
Contrast: 92
Brightness: 46
Sharpness: 66
Color: 62
Tint: 0

Color Temp: 0
Dynamic contrast: Medium

I checked these against the movies: Hereafter (blu ray) & Seabiscuit.

I have a question about Seabiscuit. It's in the beginning, after the scene when the horses are running, and the guy is laying out by the campfire under the starry sky. What is the shot of the sky suppose to look like? Its bright from the right with wisps of clouds running from vertical center right to to the bottom near left edge. How bright should the right side be and how much contrast should there be between those wispy clouds and the sky?







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post #3636 of 5123 Old 03-21-2011, 11:03 PM
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Originally Posted by VBB View Post
Just wanted to let you guys know that I've done a little calibration of my own since I got my new PS3. The result? Well, let's just say I highly recommend giving it a shot

I used the AVS HD disc without any equipment, and I was able to not only adjust backlight, brightness and contrast, but also the colors in CMS thanks to our TVs' built-in color filters.

I even copied the same exact settings over to OTA, and it's never looked better. If anyone here wants to try the same method, let me know if you have any questions. It was very easy when I did it. I just followed the disc's pattern manual.

How long did it take you and how many tries?

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post #3637 of 5123 Old 03-22-2011, 05:14 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by sheshechic View Post

I have a question about Seabiscuit. It's in the beginning, after the scene when the horses are running, and the guy is laying out by the campfire under the starry sky. What is the shot of the sky suppose to look like? Its bright from the right with wisps of clouds running from vertical center right to to the bottom near left edge. How bright should the right side be and how much contrast should there be between those wispy clouds and the sky?


[/font][/font][/font][/font]





Hi I saw the post and had to reply. The scene you speak of is great for checking shades of gray and for detail in a mostly black background. What you should see is mostly dark shades of gray/black with stars speckled throughout the sky. The wispy clouds near the bottom and sweeping slightly upwards should be visible, but subdued. Mainly, you may want to decrease back light to a level so that you get minimum "bluish" cast from the back light itself, and then make sure you don't have brightness or contrast up too high. You can;t make settings too high in an attempt to "see" all the stars and details. Some stars should barley visible against the dark back ground. Go for a bit darker, rather than lighter.

If you look at the moon, the left side should have a pretty clean edge to it. If contrast is set too high, it will look "halloed" or "ringed" . You should be able to make out some detail in the moons surface. So, in summary, very dark star speckled sky, with visible , but not overly high contrast wispy clouds. You may have to crank down back light first, brightness a bit, and probably contrast in the mid to low 80's. You could leave back light up a bit higher (50ish) , if you use the Energy Saving set to Medium or Minimum if viewing at night.

Henry has the right idea. He got the free AVS HD 709 and got his TV officially tweaked!
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post #3638 of 5123 Old 03-22-2011, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by sheshechic View Post

How long did it take you and how many tries?

The AVS HD709 disc is really quick and easy for the basic settings. Removes the guess work.
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post #3639 of 5123 Old 03-22-2011, 08:15 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by VBB View Post

Just wanted to let you guys know that I've done a little calibration of my own since I got my new PS3. The result? Well, let's just say I highly recommend giving it a shot

I used the AVS HD disc without any equipment, and I was able to not only adjust backlight, brightness and contrast, but also the colors in CMS thanks to our TVs' built-in color filters.

I even copied the same exact settings over to OTA, and it's never looked better. If anyone here wants to try the same method, let me know if you have any questions. It was very easy when I did it. I just followed the disc's pattern manual.

So Henry. Curious to see what you came up with for settings with AVS HD709. I would imagine you should have an even better gray scale. Also interested in what it came up with for Brightness and Contrast.

Regarding the built n LG color filters. You may want to do some real movie viewing or even check it with another media disc or two. I've found that using the filter on my TV produced some inconsistent results. Very bright reds and blues seemed over saturated, even though when AVS HD 709 was viewed and adjusted they weren't. When I compared to AVIA and some THX color media, there were differences.
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post #3640 of 5123 Old 03-22-2011, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Phase700B View Post

Hi I saw the post and had to reply. The scene you speak of is great for checking shades of gray and for detail in a mostly black background. What you should see is mostly dark shades of gray/black with stars speckled throughout the sky. The wispy clouds near the bottom and sweeping slightly upwards should be visible, but subdued. Mainly, you may want to decrease back light to a level so that you get minimum "bluish" cast from the back light itself, and then make sure you don't have brightness or contrast up too high. You can;t make settings too high in an attempt to "see" all the stars and details. Some stars should barley visible against the dark back ground. Go for a bit darker, rather than lighter.

If you look at the moon, the left side should have a pretty clean edge to it. If contrast is set too high, it will look "halloed" or "ringed" . You should be able to make out some detail in the moons surface. So, in summary, very dark star speckled sky, with visible , but not overly high contrast wispy clouds. You may have to crank down back light first, brightness a bit, and probably contrast in the mid to low 80's. You could leave back light up a bit higher (50ish) , if you use the Energy Saving set to Medium or Minimum if viewing at night.

Henry has the right idea. He got the free AVS HD 709 and got his TV officially tweaked!

Thanks, that's how I have it looking with the settings I posted. I was concerned that I'd made it too dark and that the lower clouds might have been intended to be a little more prominent, however anything less dark makes it look like the sun is too close to the moon on the right side of the screen. Prior to the adjustment almost 1/2 of the right side was bright, like the sun is just out of the camera range.

The results I achieved produce no halos and I'll double check the sharpness of the edge of the moon. Also, the bars are very nearly as black as the tv's frame, in a room with no ambient lighting, and produce no artifacts, black crush and maybe just a tad of white clip, but only in certain material - not in Seabiscuit or Hereafter.

I don't have a blu ray burner for the AVS HD 709 and I'll need to go buy some discs this weekend but I'm game to give it a try.

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post #3641 of 5123 Old 03-22-2011, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by sheshechic View Post

I don't have a blu ray burner for the AVS HD 709 and I'll need to go buy some discs this weekend but I'm game to give it a try.

You don't need a blu-ray burner, just a regular DVD burner and a regular DVD. That's the cool thing about the AVS HD 709 disc. You burn it to a regular DVD, but it writes it with a blu-ray signature, so blu-ray players treat it as a blu-ray disc so you get HD patterns in the HD color space.

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post #3642 of 5123 Old 03-22-2011, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by sheshechic View Post

Otto: I didn't forget you. I've been away and I thought I had the settings in the laptop I took with me but I was wrong.

Remember I have a 52ld550

Damn! No one shows up for a few days, I'm feeling all alone , and now there's a flurry of posts and I can't keep up Feast or famine around here.....

Thanks for the cals. I'll compare them to what I'm using and see what's what. Mr. Phaser answered your question about the Seabiscuit scene. I still haven't got my copy of Seabiscuit back yet from my mom-in-law. Her nephew is in the movie (he's a real jockey) so she's still showing it to all of her friends
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post #3643 of 5123 Old 03-22-2011, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by csamos View Post

You don't need a blu-ray burner, just a regular DVD burner and a regular DVD. That's the cool thing about the AVS HD 709 disc. You burn it to a regular DVD, but it writes it with a blu-ray signature, so blu-ray players treat it as a blu-ray disc so you get HD patterns in the HD color space.

I didn't realize that. Wifey is going to Disneyland this weekend with her sister so it's just me, my son, a DVD burner, and the LG ALL TO MYSELF! Bwahahahah
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post #3644 of 5123 Old 03-22-2011, 10:40 AM
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Where's the link to the AVS 709 disk? Or more specifically, which one should I use for a standard DVD player with an HDMI connection?
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post #3645 of 5123 Old 03-22-2011, 11:08 AM
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Here you go Otto: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=948496

Hope you're having a good day. Spring has sprung here in VA.

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post #3646 of 5123 Old 03-22-2011, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post

Where's the link to the AVS 709 disk? Or more specifically, which one should I use for a standard DVD player with an HDMI connection?

You will need to get the 3rd download, provided your player can play MPEG-4 AVC or H.264 - thing is this format will be missing "menus and navigation features", which would make it a little difficult to use. I guess you'd have to rewind/fast forward until you found the pattern you want to work with.

The bluray format written to DVD requires a bluray player.

Otto, get a cheap bluray player already!
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post #3647 of 5123 Old 03-22-2011, 12:56 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I didn't realize that. Wifey is going to Disneyland this weekend with her sister so it's just me, my son, a DVD burner, and the LG ALL TO MYSELF! Bwahahahah

Yes Otto, get a cheap BLu-ray player. I see LG BD530s and BD550s on eBay still. Speaking of that, don't you have something you could sell on eBay? If you got the cash from an existing source it should appease the Finance And Budget Director. No?

Surely you must have some vintage or collector items from your younger "flower power" days? Um, a classic bong with psychedelic etchings on it? A few Jimmy Hendrix LPs? Some tie dyed T-shirts with peace symbols on them?

http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trk...&_nkw=LG+BD530
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post #3648 of 5123 Old 03-22-2011, 02:59 PM
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LOL @ Nick!

Otto, even though you can burn the AVS HD disc to a DVD you cannot play it back in a DVD player. Just a heads up...

Just realized that djams already said that
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post #3649 of 5123 Old 03-22-2011, 03:07 PM
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Here you go Otto: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=948496

Hope you're having a good day. Spring has sprung here in VA.

Thank you dear. It's rainy, windy, and cold here (well, cold based on West Coast standards). Work has been terrible today so I think I'm going to go home and kick the dog! Wait a minute, I can't do that......... he ran off after I hit him with the Wii remote..... what to do
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post #3650 of 5123 Old 03-22-2011, 03:20 PM
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I hear you all about the bluray! My birthday is in May so maybe I'll treat myself then. A treat for you all too because you won't have to listen to my "no bluray" whining anymore. Being as I'm basically going to have the house to myself this weekend maybe I'll do a marathon VHS->DVD binge and get the project done. Then.........

@phase: I've got a quite a few Fillmore posters that I took off of telephone polls in Berkeley and San Francisco somewhere so those would bring a pretty penny on eBay, but I don't think I can part with them. I've also got a stack of handbills that were passed out as we left the Fillmore! I still listen so my lp's every now and then when I want to hear the fullness and depth of music as opposed to this mp3 crap and I also wear my tie-dye from time to time. As far as the engraved bong goes, that was retired long ago....... but I promise I will get a bluray :-)
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post #3651 of 5123 Old 03-22-2011, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phase700B View Post

So Henry. Curious to see what you came up with for settings with AVS HD709. I would imagine you should have an even better gray scale. Also interested in what it came up with for Brightness and Contrast.

Regarding the built n LG color filters. You may want to do some real movie viewing or even check it with another media disc or two. I've found that using the filter on my TV produced some inconsistent results. Very bright reds and blues seemed over saturated, even though when AVS HD 709 was viewed and adjusted they weren't. When I compared to AVIA and some THX color media, there were differences.


Brightness is always the easiest to dial in. I ended up at 51, because that is when 16 disappears for me. Contrast is a little trickier on our LCD TVs, because the brightening effect is deceiving. The disc tells you it needs to be set much higher (at least 90) than it really should be (83, in my case). This is to be expected with LCDs, though, because they're so bright.

Using the built-in filters for red, green and blue was interesting. As expected, blue was super easy to dial in, adjusting only blue, cyan and magenta in CMS. Green and red were much harder, because it's impossible to match them perfectly with gray. I would have had to max out red at +30 and dial down green to -30 to get close.

I ended up having a perfect match for blue (+7), with a slight increase in red (+8) and a decrease in green (-12). That way my blue matched gray, cyan and magenta, my green matched cyan and yellow (but not gray), and my red matched magenta only. Nothing was oversaturated either.

Since I did not touch luminance at all (2 or 10 point), I'm sure my grayscale is not very accurate. It did look balanced, though, with no red or blue tint, as far as I could tell.

Here are the things I left untouched (at ISF Expert defaults):

Sharpness, Color, Tint, all luminance settings, all CMS tint settings.

Backlight is now at 20 for nighttime and 40 for daytime with lots of light.


I'm assuming that there is no way to match all three primary colors perfectly with gray as well as all three secondary colors. It seems that you always have to find a compromise, and the AVS HD manual suggests to calibrate for blue first and foremost. I think this is the best I can do without meters
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post #3652 of 5123 Old 03-22-2011, 04:26 PM - Thread Starter
 
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@phase: I've got a quite a few Fillmore posters that I took off of telephone polls in Berkeley and San Francisco somewhere so those would bring a pretty penny on eBay, but I don't think I can part with them. I've also got a stack of handbills that were passed out as we left the Fillmore! I still listen so my lp's every now and then when I want to hear the fullness and depth of music as opposed to this mp3 crap and I also wear my tie-dye from time to time. As far as the engraved bong goes, that was retired long ago....... but I promise I will get a bluray :-)

Wow man! Filmore posters and vintage handbills. . . I'd buy one if I saw one on eBay. If you ever decide to part with a handbill. . .

Speaking od LPs, I just listened to Velvet Underground with Nico earlier. Yes, original 1967 stereo version...mint. Been only played 9 times according to my play log I put inside each LP jacket. I'm the kind of owner who put those plastic vinyl liners inside each LP sleeve too. And the record is cleaned each time with my Discwasher (TM) and a few drops of the "special" fluid. And just now, I moved ahead a few years and played Pink Floyd Dark Side Of the Moon. All on my vintage Dual 1229Q with one of my vintage cartridges in it. Right now, an ADC ST XLM II graces the tonearm. There is nothing like vinyl. Something about the very ritual of opening the jacket, removing the LP from its sleeve, and placing it on the massive 7lb platter. Then cuing up the tonearm. Such a visceral experience, don't you think? And it never sounded better when played through my Boston 5.1/7.1 AVR, 150 watts RMS per channel fed into my B&W DM-603 S2 front mains with BIC twin 10" subs. All bi-wired of course! I usually play records using DD 5.1 Music mode as it is a rich, full sound with interpolated rear speaker feeds.

Well, time to flip it over and listen to side two.

Apologies for the of topic meandering. But it is a cold, rainy day here too Otto. About 39 and just chills to the bone. But not inside in my chair and all the glowing lights of my equipment around me.
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post #3653 of 5123 Old 03-22-2011, 04:46 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I'm assuming that there is no way to match all three primary colors perfectly with gray as well as all three secondary colors. It seems that you always have to find a compromise, and the AVS HD manual suggests to calibrate for blue first and foremost. I think this is the best I can do without meters

It sounds good Henry. I see you did go up quite a bit from your "0" back light at night and daytime. The low 40s seem about right for daytime viewing with lots of room light for our TVs, and lower of course at night. Based on what you seemed to find by leaving your luminance at zeros, and others results earlier, it would seem the larger panels and the LD520s people have are notably different in video characteristics than mu LD550. If I leave the 10 points at zero, I am pretty blue in gray scale. What is interesting to try, is checking the presets (after toning them down to reasonable settings) and look at the bars and gray scale. Standard and Cinema have a slight red tint to them, while the rest seem to lean blue. With my Expert Warm and Expert Cool I can see no tint other than that the Warm is just the slightest "yellow" across the IREs as it would be for D6500. Expert Cool is very neutral, but not blue like the presets I mentioned.

From what I've seen, if you do even a a quick eyeball using something like AVIA or AVS HD 709, the PQ gets at least 90% or more to where it should be, and way better than out of the box. And isn't it nice to know now, where your TV is at overall?
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post #3654 of 5123 Old 03-22-2011, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Phase700B View Post

Apologies for the of topic meandering. But it is a cold, rainy day here too Otto. About 39 and just chills to the bone. But not inside in my chair and all the glowing lights of my equipment around me.

I guess you shouldn't look at the current weather here in Austin then...


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post #3655 of 5123 Old 03-22-2011, 05:56 PM
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Otto: Don't buy the LG 570 or this year's LG blu ray players. They have problems with playing blu rays.

Sony and Panasonic seem to be doing well. The Panasonic 110 seems nice and I can vouch for the 210.

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post #3656 of 5123 Old 03-22-2011, 06:13 PM
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I second that, unfortunately. After swapping a BD570 with nothing but skipping issues at 24Hz for a PS3, I couldn't be happier. The DVD upscaling is also much better with the PS3.
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post #3657 of 5123 Old 03-22-2011, 06:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phase700B View Post

From what I've seen, if you do even a a quick eyeball using something like AVIA or AVS HD 709, the PQ gets at least 90% or more to where it should be, and way better than out of the box. And isn't it nice to know now, where your TV is at overall?

It's very nice to know for someone who just can't leave things alone

But I also know it's still far from perfect, so I'll keep messing with it.
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post #3658 of 5123 Old 03-22-2011, 06:23 PM
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Oh and Nick,

Throw in a little Led Zep and I'm right there with ya
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post #3659 of 5123 Old 03-22-2011, 06:33 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by csamos View Post

I guess you shouldn't look at the current weather here in Austin then...


Ahhh..... the old "current weather" trick. 80 degrees would be nice, and Austin is a nice enough city, but I spent enough time in Texas when I was in the Air Force to know what it can be like in summer.

I remember times in Spring and it could be 40 degrees on the way into work, and be 100 at lunch. Only the excessive starch in our uniforms kept us fresh . . . looking.
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post #3660 of 5123 Old 03-22-2011, 06:45 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Oh and Nick,

Throw in a little Led Zep and I'm right there with ya

Gotcha covered Henry! Zepplin I, II, and III of course. I have their first album I bought in 1969. And when I was in the Air Force that's all you heard from everyone's stereo Zepplin or the Who and Who's Next.

One time, we set it up with guys in the barracks hall in one wing to cue up "Stairway" on something like 14 stereos starting all at the same time. It took several rehearsals, but we finally got it ( with just a bit of room to room delay). It was pretty spectacular. What can I say. We got bored on those long Alaskan nights. That's right. I was in Texas for a year, then straight to Alaska at 40 below.
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