Official LG xxLD550 xxLD520 xxLD650 Owners Thread - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 5077 Old 09-22-2010, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by scy046 View Post
Well, I'm pretty much sold on a 52" LD550 (barring any sudden revelations on the screen being terrible) so I'll try to get some impressions when I get some time with it. Just hoping I nab an IPS one since I do use my TV for gaming but it's not the end of the world if I don't I suppose.

I don't think they make an IPS panel over 42" right now. I could be wrong though.
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post #362 of 5077 Old 09-22-2010, 11:02 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by VBB View Post

I used the picture wizard initially, but it did not get me the results I was looking for. This is most likely because the picture wizard doesn't let you calibrate based on the actual source (OTA, HDMI). It's kind of static.

I'd say adjust the TV the way you like it best. Some people swear by perfectly calibrated settings while others can't stand the natural look and much prefer the eye-popping visuals of the Standard or even Vivid modes. Use whatever makes you happy, not what others say should make you happy. In my experience, even the Standard mode is quite usable when sharpness is dialed down to 50 and edge enhancer if off, especially with a lot of light. Turn on TruMotion, and you'll have one eye-popping, stunningly clear picture. That is, if you can stand the soap opera effect

I agree. . . what ever works for you. The presets are there to give us quick and easy choices, and will give you a really nice picture especially for day time use with some moderate adjusts. I posted some settings a few posts back for presets. There are some " incremental" settings included in each for stepping up in brightness from the Expert1 & Expert2 modes using the Q.Menu. But some owners may want the Game mode just for what it was intended and make the settings for that mode whatever works best for their game system.

The ISF Expert modes are very nice to get the TV to it's optimum picture quality . . . within it's limitations. It might be compared to an automobile engine where an engineer tries to tune an engine for best mileage and performance given it's size and other parameters. Hopefully, with some time, each owner will come to learn that even with lower backlight levels, color, brightness, and contrast; their TV actually has a more realistic depth and balance especially for things like movies.
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post #363 of 5077 Old 09-22-2010, 11:29 AM
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I got my 46 delivered this morning, yeah baby!!!!!!!!!!!

Gonna hook it up and try to dial it in tonight. Phase, thanks for all the work you've done with the calibrations but could I asked you for one more thing?

With ALL the settings you have listed which ones would be the best (at least a starting point) for:
1. day time viewing,
2. nighttime viewing (both HDMI cable and BR from PS3) and
3. gaming(PS3)

I would like to have these preset and just flip from one to the other depending on source and light conditions.

Just point me in the right direction; I am in no means asking for another long rundown as you have already done that multiple times.

Luke
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post #364 of 5077 Old 09-22-2010, 11:47 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Lukedog17 View Post

I got my 46 delivered this morning, yeah baby!!!!!!!!!!!

Gonna hook it up and try to dial it in tonight. Phase, thanks for all the work you've done with the calibrations but could I asked you for one more thing?

With ALL the settings you have listed which ones would be the best (at least a starting point) for:
1. day time viewing,
2. nighttime viewing (both HDMI cable and BR from PS3) and
3. gaming(PS3)

I would like to have these preset and just flip from one to the other depending on source and light conditions.

Just point me in the right direction; I am in no means asking for another long rundown as you have already done that multiple times.

Luke

Since we are in the "300's" go to posts 306 and 314. Print them out so you have something to follow as you do them.

Do the settings for "Cinema" first for both OTA/Cable and HDMI1 to see how you like it for daytime viewing. Tweak as needed, keep backlight low as you can (25 -30)

Use the Expert 1 & 2 for HDMI for the best night time Blu-ray or DVD viewing. Use the OTA/Cable Expert1 or 2 for night time TV viewing.

Remember, you have to do these settings for each Picture mode in each input that you are using on the TV. You can, however, transfer Expert1 & Expert 2 to to all inputs after you do them. Saves time.

For Game mode, use my basic settings I gave for Game in Post #314, still keep backlight relatively low (28 to35) , and set Contrast, Brightness, Color, and sharpness to however you like it!

Once you have these set up, you can quickly flip using the Q.Menu from one setting to another for Each input. It is very convenient.
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post #365 of 5077 Old 09-22-2010, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by toondog View Post

I don't think they make an IPS panel over 42" right now. I could be wrong though.

Well, I called and talked to them about the availability of IPS panels on the 47LD650 and the response was that all their TVs have an IPS panel.

...but since reading around here about some of the panel lotteries, I'm not sure how much to believe that response to be honest. Oh well.
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post #366 of 5077 Old 09-22-2010, 01:22 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by scy046 View Post

Well, I called and talked to them about the availability of IPS panels on the 47LD650 and the response was that all their TVs have an IPS panel.

...but since reading around here about some of the panel lotteries, I'm not sure how much to believe that response to be honest. Oh well.

If any of these TVs in the LD line have an IPS panel, the 650 would have one. First it's 47" and the top of the line (2ms) for LG in a CCFL panel. Secondly, it seems they are limited production. If you can send or take it back, why not try it out?

Where would you be getting it from? I couldn't even find any when I was buying. I just read a few reviews over on A*azon and one reviewer says no lag problems and a great TV.
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post #367 of 5077 Old 09-22-2010, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Phase700B View Post

Since we are in the "300's" go to posts 306 and 314. Print them out so you have something to follow as you do them.

Do the settings for "Cinema" first for both OTA/Cable and HDMI1 to see how you like it for daytime viewing. Tweak as needed, keep backlight low as you can (25 -30)

Use the Expert 1 & 2 for HDMI for the best night time Blu-ray or DVD viewing. Use the OTA/Cable Expert1 or 2 for night time TV viewing.

Remember, you have to do these settings for each Picture mode in each input that you are using on the TV. You can, however, transfer Expert1 & Expert 2 to to all inputs after you do them. Saves time.

For Game mode, use my basic settings I gave for Game in Post #314, still keep backlight relatively low (28 to35) , and set Contrast, Brightness, Color, and sharpness to however you like it!

Once you have these set up, you can quickly flip using the Q.Menu from one setting to another for Each input. It is very convenient.

Thanks Phase, will do!
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post #368 of 5077 Old 09-22-2010, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phase700B View Post

If any of these TVs in the LD line have an IPS panel, the 650 would have one. First it's 47" and the top of the line (2ms) for LG in a CCFL panel. Secondly, it seems they are limited production. If you can send or take it back, why not try it out?

Where would you be getting it from? I couldn't even find any when I was buying. I just read a few reviews over on A*azon and one reviewer says no lag problems and a great TV.

I've since decided on a 52LD550 as I don't really need 240 Hz and would prefer the extra size but both are Amazon purchases; nothing near where I am right now carries those models (just up to LD450s) so I'm "stuck" with an online purchase.
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post #369 of 5077 Old 09-22-2010, 03:35 PM
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If anyone is interested and in the neighborhood of a Fry's , they're currently selling the LG BD570 blu-ray player, the one with wifi, for $144 bucks. Nice match for a great TV. Hope that's ok to post here.

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post #370 of 5077 Old 09-22-2010, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by scy046 View Post

I've since decided on a 52LD550 as I don't really need 240 Hz and would prefer the extra size but both are Amazon purchases; nothing near where I am right now carries those models (just up to LD450s) so I'm "stuck" with an online purchase.

I would definitely go with the extra size. Couldn't tell you if there is any visual difference between 120 and 240Hz.

This is actually something that I would like to discuss. Does the jump from 60 to 120 to 240Hz actually do anything for picture quality if you're not using TruMotion? Does the output at higher hertz with both judder and blur at zero enhance anything? If it does, I can't tell. I do see a major difference when I move judder from 0 to 1. It virtually removes any stuttering in movement and makes film material look like a soap opera. A huge improvement in clarity, though. Can't quite figure out what the blur setting does. By itself, it doesn't seem to do anything.

If anyone wants to share their experiences...

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post #371 of 5077 Old 09-22-2010, 04:03 PM
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FWIW my 47LD520 has the Chevron pattern just like Phase's 42. I put a 6500K T8 bulb behind the TV on the wall, and I'm going to go crazy tonight trying out all the settings.
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post #372 of 5077 Old 09-22-2010, 04:12 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by shadowinq View Post

FWIW my 47LD520 has the Chevron pattern just like Phase's 42. I put a 6500K T8 bulb behind the TV on the wall, and I'm going to go crazy tonight trying out all the settings.

Have a great time.... make sure you have the set on for at least 30 minutes B4 adjusting. . . I know..... you know!

Isn't it great.. getting to unbox and tweak and revel in the brandy-new-ness
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post #373 of 5077 Old 09-22-2010, 04:25 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by VBB View Post

I would definitely go with the extra size. Couldn't tell you if there is any visual difference between 120 and 240Hz.

This is actually something that I would like to discuss. Does the jump from 60 to 120 to 240Hz actually do anything for picture quality if you're not using TruMotion? Does the output at higher hertz with both judder and blur at zero enhance anything? If it does, I can't tell. I do see a major difference when I move judder from 0 to 1. It virtually removes any stuttering in movement and makes film material look like a soap opera. A huge improvement in clarity, though. Can't quite figure out what the blur setting does. By itself, it doesn't seem to do anything.

If anyone wants to share their experiences...

Good price and good find on that LG Blu-ray!

And I notice the same thing as you Henry, with regard to judder and blur.
I did *think* I see some difference with blur on and judder at 0 watching some tennis. A little less motion blurring when set at 4 or 5, but not like the effect of judder from 0 to 1. LG isn't very revealing as to what it is supposed to do.

As far as 60 vs 120 vs 240 HZ that has to do mostly with frame rate abilty such as better display of 24fps film based material. I could go into detail, but it has to do with being able to more accurately display 24fps without added, duplicated, or dropped frames. Even with "Real Cinema" turned off which is what is best in my opinion.

If any video guru has a link to enlighten us in lay man's terms please post it. i had one somewhere, but google wikipedia has some info on it.
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post #374 of 5077 Old 09-22-2010, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Phase700B View Post

As far as 60 vs 120 vs 240 HZ that has to do mostly with frame rate abilty such as better display of 24fps film based material. I could go into detail, but it has to do with being able to more accurately display 24fps without added, duplicated, or dropped frames. Even with "Real Cinema" turned off which is what is best in my opinion.

If any video guru has a link to enlighten us in lay man's terms please post it. i had one somewhere, but google wikipedia has some info on it.

Well, I am by no means a video guru, but I do understand the difference between 60 and 120hz when it comes to film material at 24fps. It does get technical, but let's just say it's easier to squeeze 24 frames into 120 than just 60

From what I've been reading, to get the actual 24fps output to work, TruMotion has to be completely off and Real Cinema, which is responsible for the pulldown, has to be on. If these conditions are not met, the TV will output at 120hz, no matter what. The best way to test this is with a PC hooked up to HDMI. Set the refresh rate to 24hz at 1080p, and you will notice a choppiness in the mouse movement. As soon as you turn on TruMotion or turn off Real Cinema, the cursor will be smooth again because of the frame interpolation to 120hz. Anywho...

I was really just wondering if there is any visible difference in these refresh rates when you're watching something. Wish there was a way to get the clarity of TruMotion without the dreaded soap opera effect.

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post #375 of 5077 Old 09-22-2010, 04:51 PM
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So far I'm liking HDMI Expert 2 for Blu Ray in a dark room. It's slightly cooler than Expert 1, but it looks good to me. Also, I was able to turn my backlight down to 21 and get a great picture for movie time. Your expanded Cinema settings seem to be great for normal TV viewing in brighter settings, with backlight up in the low 30s. I'm still not 100% satisfied with off-angle viewing, but dead on I notice very very good screen uniformity compared to pictures of sets I've seen, even with backlight at 100. On to gaming!
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post #376 of 5077 Old 09-22-2010, 05:12 PM
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Interesting. I'm thinking the rope lighting idea may be a little tricky. Some of them can generate a decent amount of light, you probably don't want too much. Also, most LED lit devices seem to be far more on the "cool" side. Are these LEDs "warmer" ones, closer to 6500 Kelvin?

But I hear ya' on the black bezel part. I wish ALL TV manufacturers would take a lesson from Mitsubishi DLPs. Despite their flaws, the tiny bezel surrounding it looks so nice, and more closely resembles a theater feel. I still don't get why 2 and 3 inch bezels frames are even still made. The bigger they are, the cheaper they look, IMO.

Years back, with my first LCD, I put a small light with a 15 watt incandescent bulb behind the TV and this seemed to be just about perfect. Just enough light so you weren't watching in complete darkness. This LG really puts out a lot of light so you have keep the back-light low. I'm thinking Phase's HDMI Expert 1 settings might be perfect with that old set up. Maybe I'll try that. Hmmm...

It's a pretty harsh cold white but it's also against a tan wall so it's not a perfect solution by any means.

Also I used to use a rope light hooked up to an X10 remote power control system with a dimmer. Worked a charm. I could crank it up when I wanted to and dim it with something like 10 steps. That's aways an option.

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post #377 of 5077 Old 09-22-2010, 05:21 PM
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Has anyone identified whether there's a pattern to the serial numbers and whether a set has an IPS panel?

The LE5300 thread found the pattern for IPS panels, but I haven't seen any discussion of a similar pattern for the LD520.

Perhaps a few owners could post up the back half of their serial numbers for comparison?
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post #378 of 5077 Old 09-22-2010, 06:01 PM
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my serial is xxxxxKUFJ621, 47" LD520
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post #379 of 5077 Old 09-22-2010, 06:15 PM
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my serial is xxxxxKUFJ621, 47" LD520

How are the viewing angles? You can see an example of a non-IPS panel here
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post #380 of 5077 Old 09-22-2010, 06:48 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by VBB View Post

Well, I am by no means a video guru, but I do understand the difference between 60 and 120hz when it comes to film material at 24fps. It does get technical, but let's just say it's easier to squeeze 24 frames into 120 than just 60

Exactly. 24fps divides into 120 or 240 evenly (5 and 10).

Quote:
From what I've been reading, to get the actual 24fps output to work, TruMotion has to be completely off and Real Cinema, which is responsible for the pulldown, has to be on. If these conditions are not met, the TV will output at 120hz, no matter what. The best way to test this is with a PC hooked up to HDMI. Set the refresh rate to 24hz at 1080p, and you will notice a choppiness in the mouse movement. As soon as you turn on TruMotion or turn off Real Cinema, the cursor will be smooth again because of the frame interpolation to 120hz. Anywho...


That is the way I understood it also, with Real Cinema having to be on. However, I was reading another thread a day or two ago or maybe an LG review, and the writer mentioned that an LG CSR said the opposite. Your description does make sense and we all know about CSR and their accurate information. I'm going to have to check out what happens with my HTPC hookup.

I don't care for the "live TV" look of having judder on except for some program material. On the other hand, I don't always like all the jittery effects of 24fps. Have ever noticed what real film looks like in the theater? Sometimes all the jittery multiple images are pretty distracting.
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post #381 of 5077 Old 09-22-2010, 06:59 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowinq View Post

So far I'm liking HDMI Expert 2 for Blu Ray in a dark room. It's slightly cooler than Expert 1, but it looks good to me. Also, I was able to turn my backlight down to 21 and get a great picture for movie time. Your expanded Cinema settings seem to be great for normal TV viewing in brighter settings, with backlight up in the low 30s. I'm still not 100% satisfied with off-angle viewing, but dead on I notice very very good screen uniformity compared to pictures of sets I've seen, even with backlight at 100. On to gaming!

If Expert 2 looks cooler then that's great since that is exactly what Expert2 should be. Which now verifies that an LD520 pretty much tracks an LD550 in the 42" screen and in VBB's 60". You can then set up Expert 1 for a bright daytime setting. I have some settings I've been using for Expert1 daytime for the OTA/Cable input.

And the new Cinema settings are also indicative of tracking the 550 settings.

Let us know your game system type and settings for both the TV and any the game system has PS3, right?
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post #382 of 5077 Old 09-22-2010, 07:39 PM
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Phase, any chance you can post the latter half of your serial number? I believe you've got an IPS panel, so that would be a useful bit of info.
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post #383 of 5077 Old 09-22-2010, 07:40 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I've been checking the off axis viewing more closely on my 42LD550. As most of my calibrations show, backlight is in the 27 to 30 range on most of the settings. I used this because I did some tests with an all black screen and brightness set at 50% with contrast at 65%. What I found was that backlight over 35 or so started to leak more light plus off axis leakage also became worse.

But I also noticed something else I've mentioned in passing before. Currently I have the TV base about 6 1/2 feet off the floor. Dead on axis viewing is just great. But when I am seated, my head being some 2 feet lower than the base of the TV and at a distance of about 10 feet, off axis starts to become problematic to where even a foot or so off center starts to show fading on the side. However, if I stand up at the same distance (or even closer) with my head now only perhaps 10 to 12 inches lower the the TV base; off axis does not become very evident till I start to get 5 feet or so off of dead center. And even then it is slight till I get off center by 7 feet or more.

So, mounting the TV up high, and sitting lower can make off axis viewing a problem. It is important to provide enough tilt to the screen so it is perpendicular to our eyes. Even then, this "z-axis" offset makes off center viewing more of an issue. I noticed this in stores also , where the TV's that were placed up higher on the display wall, did not always look so good unless I moved quite a bit farther back.

I know this isn't ground breaking news, but we need to be aware that the LCD panel off vertical axis, exaggerates horizontal off axis fade.
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post #384 of 5077 Old 09-22-2010, 07:48 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thegrommit View Post

Phase, any chance you can post the latter half of your serial number? I believe you've got an IPS panel, so that would be a useful bit of info.

I believe it is an IPS. xxxxPH2K967
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post #385 of 5077 Old 09-22-2010, 08:20 PM
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Does anyone have the metal bracket that connects the Base to the TV?

2nd Post on my Recent LG 46LD550:

I was missing the support bracket that connects the Base to the TV. It's round on the bottom to attach to the base and inserts into base of the TV.

For those that did a Wall Mount, would anyone be interested in parting with this now spare part?

I would be willing to pay something for the part.

Please e-mail if you have it and would be willing to sell it.

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P.S. I live in the western suburbs of Chicago.
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post #386 of 5077 Old 09-22-2010, 10:29 PM
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My 60LD550 serial is XXXXXBW4H829.

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post #387 of 5077 Old 09-22-2010, 11:05 PM
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How are the viewing angles? You can see an example of a non-IPS panel here

I'll post some pics tomorrow. my tv is pretty high and at first I was like ugh view angle. I increased the tilt and it seems to be a bit better. I really don't notice that much on nonblack screens, but I don't think it's as bad as the thread you referenced. As Phase said, the z-axis causes the view angles to be more pronounced no matter the tilt. If I'm standing up and my eyes are level with the bottom of the TV, I get better angles. It's unfortunate where I have to put the TV in the room, but frankly I'm always front and center and my wife couldn't care less

I don't have pictures yet, and I won't have them until after work (6pm I will post for everyone!). Also I'll post some input lag pictures. But I was just browsing around and I'm pretty sure I have IPS. When viewing off angle (standing in front of the TV, taking 3-4 steps to the side) I don't notice any color fade but I do notice an increase in "light bleed" on black screens, which seems to be a characteristic of an IPS panel. Also, the Chevron pixel structure is present and there is very little light trail when pushing on the panel with a finger and gently moving across with it on.

Also Phase, expert 1 seems a bit too yellow/green on my set.
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post #388 of 5077 Old 09-23-2010, 06:20 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowinq View Post

I'll post some pics tomorrow. my tv is pretty high and at first I was like ugh view angle. I increased the tilt and it seems to be a bit better. I really don't notice that much on nonblack screens, but I don't think it's as bad as the thread you referenced. As Phase said, the z-axis causes the view angles to be more pronounced no matter the tilt. If I'm standing up and my eyes are level with the bottom of the TV, I get better angles. It's unfortunate where I have to put the TV in the room, but frankly I'm always front and center and my wife couldn't care less

Also Phase, expert 1 seems a bit too yellow/green on my set.

Great feedback and and looking forward to the pictures. I tried to do some pictures, but they never turn out "good" enough to show what I want. Need a new camera?

You're actually about spot on regarding the Expert1 vs Expert2 calibration. Expert 1 is more "yellow"; an observation made by most people when trying to calibrate as close to 6500K as possible. And if you view a really well photographed movie with lots of naturally lit scenes, this gives the most color depth, because sunlight actually leans to the yellow. Again, these settings are for a baseline reference. On top of that, there are a few color standard issues I always wrestle with for TV calibration. BT709 is what I used. But what about SMPTE and Standard color gamuts? There is a continuing discussion regarding do we attempt going for a pure white or something else? In photography you would want a purer white since you are usually going to print on a white paper and want to take that in account. But this is quite different because we are displaying a picture and lighting it from behind. Even with film there is the "color" of the lamp used in the projector. There is also the actual "color" of the backlight in the TV we have to deal with. And there is the tendency for our eye to perceive bluish light as more white. Ask your mom or grand mother about "bluing" for the laundry. It is a somewhat subjective thing.

Anyway, that is one reason why I did Expert2 a bit cooler, and it is way better than the settings out of the box at least, so owners can choose and perhaps get a DVE or Avia media disc and make refinements for the differences in their TVs.

I am curious though. What source material (AVIA, a movie, DVE, grayscale) did you use where you saw the yellow of Expert1, and was it for OTA/Cable or HDMI? I ask because OTA/Cable was much more difficult to obtain a good calibration.

Again, thanks for the feedback. You gave the kind of feedback that helps everyone.
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post #389 of 5077 Old 09-23-2010, 06:30 AM
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I was using Blu Rays (Baraka, Avatar, etc) over HDMI to see how the settings "looked". I think personally I like a slightly cooler, whiter picture than 6500K standard that's not too far off. I don't have a source that isn't HDMI. Unfortunately I don't have a calibration DVD, but I think I'm going to get AVIA.
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post #390 of 5077 Old 09-23-2010, 07:09 AM
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Wow, I think I might be on to something here...

Went in last night and applied Phase's Expert 2 settings (after hearing shadowinq's positive thoughts) for my nighttime blu-ray viewing and was extremely happy with how the picture looked...Matrix on blu-ray finally looked damn good so I threw in my copy of Up and was blown away at the detail I could see!

Maybe I won't need to swap this out afterall...

I still need to come up with what looks best for my Sunday HD NFL games but this is certainly an encouraging step in the right direction!

Thanks to all for discussing.

-mattyp
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