Official LG xxLD550 xxLD520 xxLD650 Owners Thread - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 5077 Old 09-11-2010, 04:31 PM
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There are still no lag tests for the LD650? Does anyone know if it's around 30ms?
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post #182 of 5077 Old 09-11-2010, 04:37 PM
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Are there any hacks for the 520 series? I see 450 can get 1080p mkv support turned on and that would be kind of cool...

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Awesome user review: "Unreal quality. Sounded like I upgraded my speakers." :D
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post #183 of 5077 Old 09-11-2010, 06:16 PM
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I just purchased a new 47LD520 and I was curious if anyone happens to have settings for a dark room, i.e basement setting with one low light lamp behind the set? I did see Phase's settings for his 42 so I'll try those for the time being.

Thanks for a very informative thread
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post #184 of 5077 Old 09-11-2010, 06:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phase700B View Post


I hear you. LCD has come a long way, but black level (in comparison) can be a trade off. With plasma, and even some shiny screen LCD, room reflection is a real detriment to an otherwise great picture. It does help to place some lighting behind the TV(preferably aimed at the wall and ceiling) to help aid black level short comings. Also, vertical position with respect to viewing angle can be optimized. While most LCD panels are reasonably good from side to side, it helps to keep the screen level of on the same plane as you eyes. Any vertical angle offset can worsen black level to more of a degree than horizontal off angle.

Yes, bias lighting was the first thing that came to my mind. I doubt I will return the TV, I like everything else about it for what I paid. I just got a lamp for behind my plasma and I like it so far.

I can't really find another tv at this price that would be a better replacement. The Samsung C630/650 thread is a mess... Panasonic does get much attention for LCD on this forum, and I just flat out hate Sony's picture for some reason. A 42" plasma won't give me 24fps support and streaming for what I paid for this set. I guess I just need to accept below average black levels and realize this is only a bedroom tv and won't get a ton of use. And it was cheap.
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post #185 of 5077 Old 09-11-2010, 06:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parassita View Post

I just purchased a new 47LD520 and I was curious if anyone happens to have settings for a dark room, i.e basement setting with one low light lamp behind the set? I did see Phase's settings for his 42 so I'll try those for the time being.

Thanks for a very informative thread

I really liked KND's settings on the first page.
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post #186 of 5077 Old 09-11-2010, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Phase700B View Post

OTA/Cable ISF Expert 2

OTA/Cable Input
ISF Expert 2
Backlight 24-32
Contrast 85
Brightness 55
H. Sharpness 76
V, Sharpness 69
Color 41
Tint 0

Expert Control
Dynamic Contrast Off
Noise Reduction Off
Dig Noise Reduct. Off
Black Level Auto
Real Cinema Off
Color Gamut BT709
Edge Enhancer Low
xvYCC Auto
Expert Pattern Off normaly
Color Filter Off

Color Temperature Warm
Gamma 2.2
Method 10Point
Pattern
IRE Adj. Points R, G, B
Luminance 120
100 2,4,-4
90 2,5,-4
80 3,4,-7
70 4,2,-16
60 3,4,-19
50 5,3,-17
40 4,0,-14
30 3,-1,-7
20 3,2,-10
10 1,-1,-4
0 1, 0,-3

Clr. Man. System

Red Color -7
Red Tint -7
Green Color -15
Green Tint -6
Blue Color -6
Blue Tint 0
Yellow Color 7
Yellow Tint -28
Cyan Color 6
Cyan Tint 7
Magenta Color -12
Magenta Tint 13

Thank you so very much for your amended calibration protocol. Like you I, too, prefer natural, softer more subtle color renderings and I look froward to setting these in due course. I don't quite understand your 3 different postings, however. Would you please explain these 3 different settings, the reasons why etc. Would be appreciated.

I also look forward to trying out your work-around of the OTA/cable conundrum I acknowledged earlier to-day. It makes some sense and could well work. We'll see.
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post #187 of 5077 Old 09-11-2010, 10:10 PM
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Apprecaite the response Phase, how well does adding some lighting behind the TV work? Does it matter what color the light is or will anything not too bright do the trick?

Tried out KND's settings today while watching Gladiator and boy did it look beautiful, did a few minor tweaks to the other settings that he didn't list and I think this is just about perfect for my taste

I have noticed a strange effect when viewing Dish that certain logos / colors in cartoons tend to "bounce" around, is this something to do with having different H and V sharpness settings or is this something to do with TruMotion? I can't figure out how to get it to go away
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post #188 of 5077 Old 09-12-2010, 07:29 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomstan View Post

Thank you so very much for your amended calibration protocol. Like you I, too, prefer natural, softer more subtle color renderings and I look froward to setting these in due course. I don't quite understand your 3 different postings, however. Would you please explain these 3 different settings, the reasons why etc. Would be appreciated.

The 3 settings are just for the OTA (antenna) or Cable input using the TV tuner: (I have HDMI settings in post #61)
1. "Cinema" Picture mode which is a preset mode. I use it for my wife's daytime viewing of her programs, when the TV is on while she does household tasks and just for her daytime talk shows, etc. Also may be preferred for sports at times or in rooms with a lot of light from windows. It is also a quick setting when a person just has purchased their xxLD550 for people who are not used to the more natural calibrated picture.

2.ISF Expert1 Picture Mode is calibrated closest to the 6500K light temperature of so called "natural" sunlight. This setting is best for rooms with diffused daytime lighting or at night where the best natural picture is desired. If a room has a lot of light a person may prefer the above Cinema.

3. ISF Expert2 Picture Mode is calibrated to be just a bit "cooler" and brighter than Expert1 for times when a person prefers it. I use it at times when watching older black & white movies on network TV, news, and sometimes sports.

The point of the several adjustments is the very reason TV makers provide them. It gives us choices, but hopefully sensible ones by adjusting these settings to a more natural range. I feel my settings also correct the tendency of yellow to look too green and greens to look to bright. I have tried KNDs settings and these did not seem to correct this color discrepancy on my TV at least.
His settings appeared to be just for the HDMI input also. My original settings for the HDMI inputs are in post #61.

All these settings also optimize energy usage by turning the backlight down and still providing a vibrant image.
Another user in this thread found power usage of 180 watts at 100% backlight, while turning it down to the 30 range power was in the 80 watt area.
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post #189 of 5077 Old 09-12-2010, 01:55 PM
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Man, I finally plug in my cable feed and watch HD Football and Golf and all the pans acrossed grass show pretty bad flashlighting. . That's the only time I've noticed it so far. I wasn't even looking for it as this is my first LCD and I've never seen that before.

I have to say, I'm even more impressed with this TVs picture after watching cable. Beautiful. Blacks and overall color look better when there aren't any black bars like I saw when I did my Blu-Ray viewing.
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post #190 of 5077 Old 09-12-2010, 02:53 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BB1111 View Post

Apprecaite the response Phase, how well does adding some lighting behind the TV work? Does it matter what color the light is or will anything not too bright do the trick?

Tried out KND's settings today while watching Gladiator and boy did it look beautiful, did a few minor tweaks to the other settings that he didn't list and I think this is just about perfect for my taste

I have noticed a strange effect when viewing Dish that certain logos / colors in cartoons tend to "bounce" around, is this something to do with having different H and V sharpness settings or is this something to do with TruMotion? I can't figure out how to get it to go away

Oops, almost missed your post. The "bias" light behind a TV always helps reduce eye strain from the quick, bright changes that occur on the TV screen; while also improving the effective black level on the images your eye sees. I always use a 13 watt compact florescent bulb, but make sure it is a good quality "warm" color temperature bulb. My TV stand has equipment towers on either side so it conceals the small lamp I place behind the TV.

The "bouncing" or dancing colors you see on Dish (I assume it's standard definition Dish?) may be due to high compression of the video signal Dish uses. I had Dish up to a year ago and I got similar issues with it on my other HDTV.
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post #191 of 5077 Old 09-12-2010, 02:59 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blacklac View Post

Man, I finally plug in my cable feed and watch HD Football and Golf and all the pans acrossed grass show pretty bad flashlighting. . That's the only time I've noticed it so far. I wasn't even looking for it as this is my first LCD and I've never seen that before.

Hmmm... "flashlighting" on a green grass background???? You usually get that with dark or almost black backgrounds. Unless your sharpness settings are too high or Edge Enhancemnt needs to be turned off. If it's the high contrast areas of a picture you are referring to, sometimes it is actually the broadcast signal having too much "boost" by the camera crew. My TV looks so life like and artifact free on golf, tennis, and football it is just breathtaking.
What kind of cable box are you using? Maybe it's your picture settings?
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post #192 of 5077 Old 09-12-2010, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phase700B View Post

Hmmm... "flashlighting" on a green grass background???? You usually get that with dark or almost black backgrounds. My TV looks so life like and artifact free on golf, tennis, and football it is just breathtaking.
What kind of cable box are you using? Maybe it's your picture settings?

It's actually local HD feed through my cable provider. No box in the chain. The picture is fantastic but if I see pans in the sky or on the football field I can see flashlighting. I am using KND's settings from page 1, btw.

Just to be clear I only see it on panning movements.

I've been watching Football and Golf all day and been quite happy besides this issue. Blacks certainly look better when there aren't any black bars on the screen. This local HD viewing today has made up my mind to keep the set. It looks fantastic besides the occasion I see this flashlighting on a panning scene with solid backgrounds.
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post #193 of 5077 Old 09-12-2010, 03:13 PM
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I don't think so, but it could have been the Blur function. I will mess with that on and off and see if it changes.

FWIW, I like Judder - 0 and Blur - 4 for Sports. It's about as close as I can get to motion I see on my plasma. Not bad at all.
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post #194 of 5077 Old 09-12-2010, 03:44 PM
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Yeah, the Blur setting turned off made no difference.
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post #195 of 5077 Old 09-12-2010, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phase700B View Post

The 3 settings are just for the OTA (antenna) or Cable input using the TV tuner: (I have HDMI settings in post #61)
1. "Cinema" Picture mode which is a preset mode. I use it for my wife's daytime viewing of her programs, when the TV is on while she does household tasks and just for her daytime talk shows, etc. Also may be preferred for sports at times or in rooms with a lot of light from windows. It is also a quick setting when a person just has purchased their xxLD550 for people who are not used to the more natural calibrated picture.

2.ISF Expert1 Picture Mode is calibrated closest to the 6500K light temperature of so called "natural" sunlight. This setting is best for rooms with diffused daytime lighting or at night where the best natural picture is desired. If a room has a lot of light a person may prefer the above Cinema.

3. ISF Expert2 Picture Mode is calibrated to be just a bit "cooler" and brighter than Expert1 for times when a person prefers it. I use it at times when watching older black & white movies on network TV, news, and sometimes sports.

The point of the several adjustments is the very reason TV makers provide them. It gives us choices, but hopefully sensible ones by adjusting these settings to a more natural range. I feel my settings also correct the tendency of yellow to look too green and greens to look to bright. I have tried KNDs settings and these did not seem to correct this color discrepancy on my TV at least.
His settings appeared to be just for the HDMI input also. My original settings for the HDMI inputs are in post #61.

All these settings also optimize energy usage by turning the backlight down and still providing a vibrant image.
Another user in this thread found power usage of 180 watts at 100% backlight, while turning it down to the 30 range power was in the 80 watt area.

As usual, your post is most helpful. Thank you so much. Will post later my attempts to input your recommendations. TGS
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post #196 of 5077 Old 09-12-2010, 05:13 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blacklac View Post

It's actually local HD feed through my cable provider. No box in the chain. The picture is fantastic but if I see pans in the sky or on the football field I can see flashlighting. I am using KND's settings from page 1, btw.

Just to be clear I only see it on panning movements.

I've been watching Football and Golf all day and been quite happy besides this issue. Blacks certainly look better when there aren't any black bars on the screen. This local HD viewing today has made up my mind to keep the set. It looks fantastic besides the occasion I see this flashlighting on a panning scene with solid backgrounds.

Maybe your cable provider has processed the network feeds or at least set video signal levels up to a level the TV has problems with. For instance, in the analog TV days, if a signal was set too high, the TV AGC might clip the signal. We always assume that the signal we get for cable, or even from a local antenna feed is pristine and not processed. A real eye opener is to see some black and white content from local TV feeds and see how much they can be off. B&W can have green, red, or blue casts to it right from the station if their equipment isn't set right. Some local stations even compress the feeds they get from a network to squeeze more into the bandwidth for subchannels. If you take a look at the "local HDTV' threads there are posters who either work, or have worked at TV stations and tell of all sorts of trade offs that are made for economic and other reasons.

At any rate I've had tennis, golf, and football on all day and I have not had what you are describing. I tried KNDs settings and had them in my Expert2 picture mode for a few days , but find them too blue, and reds " bloom" and are over saturated, along with some other issues. If you set the TV into one of the internal patterns and look at the small gray scale you can see red shift on the higher IREs, at least on my TV. I would also check sharpness settings, and edge enhancement for the Expert modes. Also, his settings omit color level (50%?) and some other pertinent settings.

Lastly, and I hate to even think or mention it; maybe there are different LCD panels in the xxLD550 line. There may be different panels, but with LG I've always felt a little better about the "panel lottery" than Samsung and some other makes. I went through that with my first large screen LCD. But that was for banding, clouds, uniformity and more. I haven't seen any of that in this line of LG TVs, which is what attracted me to them.
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post #197 of 5077 Old 09-13-2010, 02:14 AM
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Originally Posted by jvl51294 View Post

There are still no lag tests for the LD650? Does anyone know if it's around 30ms?

yes, up to 30ms (!)

Boky
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post #198 of 5077 Old 09-13-2010, 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Phase700B View Post

Lastly, and I hate to even think or mention it; maybe there are different LCD panels in the xxLD550 line. There may be different panels, but with LG I've always felt a little better about the "panel lottery" than Samsung and some other makes. I went through that with my first large screen LCD. But that was for banding, clouds, uniformity and more. I haven't seen any of that in this line of LG TVs, which is what attracted me to them.


I was kind of thinking the same thing. Isn't this supposed to be an IPS panel? Im not so sure mine is, due to the viewing angles...

I don't understand how companies get away with "panel lottery". If its advertised to be IPS and its not, well you were sold something under false pretense.
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post #199 of 5077 Old 09-13-2010, 04:06 PM
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Just bought this tv. Can the gray scale be set without instruments? I can not figure out how to do it. The manual is no help at all and instructions I found on this site don't help me either. He says to adjust the RGB until they balance. I do not understand this at all.
Thanks.
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post #200 of 5077 Old 09-13-2010, 04:17 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tcmo View Post

Just bought this tv. Can the gray scale be set without instruments? I can not figure out how to do it. The manual is no help at all and instructions I found on this site don't help me either. He says to adjust the RGB until they balance. I do not understand this at all.
Thanks.

First of all, try and relax and enjoy, take your time learning a few things, and congratulations on the new TV! It is best if you have something like the Avia DVD for home theater, but that will only help for HDMI, Component, or other inputs. I provided gray level settings for the tuner if you are using it, besides HDMI. By plugging in the following settings, you TV will look much better than the factory settings. Make sure you selected "Home" when you first ppowered up the TV and it asked on the screen for Home or Store.


This is for the Off The Air antenna input or Cable if you have it, but it will be close for HDMI also. I have other settings for the HDMI inputs , But try these first to get you going. Before you make any adjust ments, go into the Expert Control and tun off all the other things like Dynamic Contrast, Dynamic Color, etc, set Gamma to low, etc. These setting are mentioned in Post #177.

If you wish to get close to a good grayscale, go into the Menu,, Then Picture, and select ISF Expert1. Then go to Post #177 here in this thread. Plug in the values for each setting that is shown and you will have a good starting point. In the "Expert Control" you have to set the R (red), G, (green), and B (blue) values by starting at IRE 100 and set Red to 3, Green to 4, and Blue to -5. Then step back up to 100 IRE, depress the left < arrow on the remote and select IRE 90. Repeat for each IRE point down to 0 ( make sure you select 10 point method previously, not 2 point). Once you set these, you can check the gray scale using the "Expert Pattern" feature in the menu, and select Pattern 2. This will show a test screen with color bars, a small gray scale, and more for sharpness settings.

Don't be afraid, you can always do a picture reset and start over. It will just take a little familiarity if you are the kind of person that likes tweaking things!
It would help if you read page 5 and 6 also in this thread as some questions are answered. You can always ask more questions. Have you ever done gray scale settings on any TV?
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post #201 of 5077 Old 09-13-2010, 04:51 PM
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Thanks. This is for HDMI. I understand most of the stuff mentioned, but the grey scale has me flummoxed. The post I mentioned says to change the luminance after each IRE point. Nothing changed in the screen data that I noticed. The screen darkens as I go down the IRE scale. I still do not know how to determine the origin of the numbers in your posting.
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post #202 of 5077 Old 09-13-2010, 05:23 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tcmo View Post

Thanks. This is for HDMI. I understand most of the stuff mentioned, but the grey scale has me flummoxed. The post I mentioned says to change the luminance after each IRE point. Nothing changed in the screen data that I noticed. The screen darkens as I go down the IRE scale. I still do not know how to determine the origin of the numbers in your posting.

What post are you referring too and what thread? Who says to change luminance levels , unless you mean the IRE levels for each IRE window.
My settings for HDMI 1 Expert 1 and Expert 2 in Post #61 of this thread are from using the Avia DVD (on a Sony BDP-S550 Blu-ray player) calibration screens using IRE 0 to IRE 100 windows and step patterns and a Spyder 3 Pro. This required many hours as the steps between IRE values do interact somewhat. Also, the resulting gray scale was checked with a light meter.
Lastly, the OTA settings were derived from using the same Avia DVD passed through an RF converter. Finally, I used the first 6 minutes of "Seabicuit" on DVD to check real world results. The first 6 minutes of this DVD contain plenty of shades of gray to verify grayscale in themany B&W photos at the beginning of the DVD. Also, red and green push can be checked, as well as subltle flesh tones.
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post #203 of 5077 Old 09-13-2010, 05:32 PM
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So a calibration DVD or instrumentation is need to do the grey scale (not just the TV)? Re-reading the manual sort-of says that. My mistake. How do you get the "Expert Pattern" choice to be available? It is greyed out on my set under Expert 1.
Post I was referring to was in the LD 450 thread. I may have misunderstood what he wrote.
Thanks again.
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post #204 of 5077 Old 09-13-2010, 05:43 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tcmo View Post

So a calibration DVD or instrumentation is need to do the grey scale (not just the TV)? Re-reading the manual sort-of says that. My mistake. How do you get the "Expert Pattern" choice to be available? It is greyed out on my set under Expert 1.
Post I was referring to was in the LD 450 thread. I may have misunderstood what he wrote.
Thanks again.

Yes, a DVD or meter is best, but the idea of the settings supplied here is that since it is the same TV, the settings should be close, and you can check ir with the internal Expert Pattern 2. There is also an "inner" IRE field pattern aboove "Method" in the setting menu.

With the HDMI input, yes the Expert Pattern will be grayed out. Sorry, was thinking of the OTA/Cable input. But I think the Inner pattern (above method) should still be available and provide IRE fields. AVIA or Video Essentials would be best to use.
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post #205 of 5077 Old 09-13-2010, 06:12 PM
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Don't know why I didn't think to ask in here specifically, but how many of you have this issue with your displays?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post19147150

I seemed to see it pretty regularly on display models in stores, but wondering in the wild what's the likliehood... this is a 42ld520 btw.

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Awesome user review: "Unreal quality. Sounded like I upgraded my speakers." :D
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post #206 of 5077 Old 09-13-2010, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Devedander View Post

Don't know why I didn't think to ask in here specifically, but how many of you have this issue with your displays?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post19147150

I seemed to see it pretty regularly on display models in stores, but wondering in the wild what's the likliehood... this is a 42ld520 btw.

I may see a slight hint of that, but it could just be my eyes and the major contrast of bright white next to a solid black. It certainly isn't as noticeable as your pictures. Does the camera enhance the effect at all or is that pretty faithful to what you see?
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post #207 of 5077 Old 09-13-2010, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Blacklac View Post

I may see a slight hint of that, but it could just be my eyes and the major contrast of bright white next to a solid black. It certainly isn't as noticeable as your pictures. Does the camera enhance the effect at all or is that pretty faithful to what you see?

I would say the camera enhances the effect, however it's definitely noticeable.

On solid color screens (especially lighter) it's very noticeable. When viewing normal content it's much harder to pick up on but still there if you look closely.

In any shot with vinetting though I get the feeling it really pushes the level of darkening.

You will notice the second shot shows the effect much less preominently on the left side as the camera angle is left side for that shot... I would say under normal viewing conditions it's closer to that than the top picture to the naked eye. If the second picture is 1 and the top picture is 10 I would say I feel it's usually around a 4.

I got a better camera and here are some shots... 2 white screen and then the same netflix screen. Different time of day and I have since messed with the calibration settings but the effect is still visible. I would say these shots are pretty accurate to what the eye sees on the white screens, a little extra pronounced on the netflix screen due to camera and it's less pronounced overall now partially due to ambient lighting.
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post #208 of 5077 Old 09-13-2010, 06:48 PM
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This is my first LCD and I've never experienced 2:2 with 60hz content. I am watching sitcoms and I have both judder and blur turned off and I still see artifacts on fast movements. Is this just what happens to 60hz content when it's shown as 120hz or is there some kind on non defeatable motion enhancements on this set? It kind of looks like the lines or blocks next to hard lines when TruMotion is on but it is much milder.
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post #209 of 5077 Old 09-13-2010, 09:42 PM
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Ok, this is weird. My Blur setting is engaging itself with channel changes even though it shows it's off. If I turn it back on and off the weird motion goes away. That, and all my settings completely reset... I think I have a lemon.
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post #210 of 5077 Old 09-13-2010, 10:13 PM
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Hey Phase,

I can honestly say that :

LG 42LD550 HDMI 1 ISF Expert 2.txt (860 Bytes, 4 views)

Those settings you posted for HDMI are friggin' fantastic, thank you!
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