Official 70"+ LCD thread - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 1421 Old 03-25-2011, 06:17 AM
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I have a pretty good idea, but couldn't tell you for sure. But it is the pic of the TV on a truck heading out to a distribution center. It was sent to me by someone that wishes to remain unknown.
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post #272 of 1421 Old 03-25-2011, 06:26 AM
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Ok cool. Looking forward to your impressions
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post #273 of 1421 Old 03-25-2011, 08:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

Irkuck, again precisely.

Vladi, basically what irkuck says shows your personal preference is not the issue. It's the proxy factor. And while I think all of us agree that size tends to gravity up >a bit< over time, with cost being the main driver, the Panasonic example almost certainly represents a very good proxy for the market as a whole (especially because it automatically excludes people buying 32-inch TVs.)

Irkuck and rogo, I read it too quick the first time I see what you're saying now
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post #274 of 1421 Old 03-25-2011, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by rockaway1836 View Post

Will do. Upon seeing that pic, I think there is a very good chance that I will have the TV on time or even a little early. Fingers crossed. Having it in place for The Yankee opener would be a nice bonus.

And solve the mystery of whether it is edge lit or back lit
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post #275 of 1421 Old 03-25-2011, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by specuvestor View Post

And solve the mystery of whether it is edge lit or back lit

It looks as if laserline1972 will get his sets before I get mine. All the mysterys may have been solved before April 1st.
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post #276 of 1421 Old 03-25-2011, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

No offense to the "giant screen" proponents, but Irkuck is of course correct and axiomatically so.

The people buying plasmas today in fact are more likely buying them for size/price ratio as a primary consideration. Given that size comes cheaply, there are still relatively few 65-inch plasmas sold.

Why this concept is hard to grasp. I don't know. It's a fact. There is nothing preventing the guy with $2000 to $4000 from buying a 65-inch TV today. And if he wanted size first, he'd of course gravitate to plasma and you can't really even buy a 65-inch LCD right now (maybe Vizio?).

The LCD buyer, contrary to what AVS would have you believe, is not some sort of anti-plasma videophile (well, the AVS LCD buyer on average might be, I am talking actual real people). [b]He / she is also buying a flat panel TV and might have already decided on something like 32 inches (which is certainly the top selling LCD size in the U.S. unless that's 40, which I actually doubt, but haven't seen 2010 numbers).[/] He can already buy a 52-inch (generally) LCD from name brands for a fair price.

Nothing is going to suddenly make these people want to buy bigger TVs. It's not happening. You can type on your little keyboards that it's going to change over and over, but it won't. If it were, all plasma sales would already be 65 inch sets and all LCD sales would be 52-55 inch sets (and some 60s, which admittedly are often less affordable).

It's of course true that lower price can lead to demand increases. It's also true however that we are near the bottom of the price curve. Check out the MSRPs of all the majors' TVs for 2011. They are pretty much where they were in 2010. Not only did prices not fall 30% this year they appear to be headed for ... the same place they were in 2010.

We have speculated whether 60-inch TVs will be $1000 sometime soon. I've suggested "perhaps never" and explained why elsewhere. Regardless, what's "revolutionary" about Sharp selling a 70-inch TV for $3000 is more or less nothing other than that it now has a cost/meter-squared that is akin to smaller TVs.

If you could get your hands on the percentage of plasmas sold only by Panasonic that are 65 inches, you should be able to accurately determine what percentage of LCDs are sold in similar sizes -- once such LCDs become available again. If you want to look into the future, you can conclude that as the price curve compresses a bit (which I don't believe will really happen, but perhaps on the top end it will, certainly for non-Sharp companies), the mix will very slightly move toward larger sizes.

My guess is that Panasonic sells 5% of their plasmas at 65 and above. My guess is that over time, 65 and above will reach or slightly exceed 10% of the market. As someone pointed out (spec maybe?), that's tens of millions of TVs per year and will sustain a robust market. What it won't do is make 65 inch TVs mainstream. They never have been and nothing about price or availability has been the reason. Ten+ years into the HD area and people only want so much TV in their living room. Even I get that, as the notion of for example an 85-inch is patently silly to me (might be great for you, so enjoy if it is).

As far as size goes, here is what Consumer Reports has to say:

"For the most part, we recommend at least a 37 inch screen for a primary TV that you'll watch often. We believe that most consumers would be happier with a 40 to 42 inch TV, budget and room size permitting, and a 46 inch or bigger set is often preferable. Screens of about 26 to 32 inches are good for casual viewing in bedrooms, and even smaller screen sizes suit kitchens".

"Remember to factor in viewing distance when deciding how big a screen will work in your room. TV pictures tend to look better and more natural if you can sit at least 5 feet from a 40-47 inch set displaying good quality HD content and minimum of 6 feet from a 50 inch or larger TV. With less distance, you might notice the picture elements (pixels) that make up the images, graininess, or video noise - what you might consider "snow" or specks. If you watch mostly standard-definition programming, which is less detailed and often lower quality, allow more distance between you and the TV".

Remember, the biggest regret people have is not buying the largest panel they can afford and that fits their viewing room.
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post #277 of 1421 Old 03-25-2011, 03:20 PM
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Anyone have any info on when the Sharp 735 or 935 are going to be released?
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post #278 of 1421 Old 03-25-2011, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by westa6969 View Post

The irony of the cost/size discussions is that if you were here 6 years ago and you were buying a 45" Sharp (before the 57"/65" debut at $12/$20K)) it cost me $3800 discounted and all of us early adopters were paying these prices that were members here back then and today we're seeing the prospect of a monster 70" nearing $3K with features and black levels PQ that blow away those early editions.

If only our automobiles could have something similar to a Moores Law scenario. If I go Sharp 70" I want the high end model and hopefully it stays below $4500. The good news I hope is that those of us waiting for the higher end model should have plenty of feedback of the on the basic model to determine if it's worthy or whether we should consider the smaller 65" Sony/Samsung/LG.

I think there is a bit of moores law in automobiles, look at all three segments of the automobile industry and you will see that sports cars have never been faster, trucks more powerful, or economy cars more fuel efficient.

I'm telling you guys we will see 100" screens before we die, haven't you seen the movies

I currently have a 52" and am having a hard time even going up to a 63-65" because i know i will want more right away.

I really think i need 75" to be happy for the next 3-5 years.

Samsung D7000 65"
Onkyo 905
BIH F12
6x Energy RC-10
WMC ceton4 DVR/Media PC
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post #279 of 1421 Old 03-25-2011, 07:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjohns1997SS View Post

I think there is a bit of moores law in automobiles, look at all three segments of the automobile industry and you will see that sports cars have never been faster, trucks more powerful, or economy cars more fuel efficient.

I'm telling you guys we will see 100" screens before we die, haven't you seen the movies

I currently have a 52" and am having a hard time even going up to a 63-65" because i know i will want more right away.

I really think i need 75" to be happy for the next 3-5 years.

Sorry, but your missing the most important part of Moore's Law where he spoke of Component Costs being minimized as the density of transistors increased and the automobile may have mastered the first part but they certainly have not been achieved it at minimized costs, a Maybach is a helluva an achievement but unlikely anyone here will ever own one. My Father owned and managed auto dealers and I grew up in that business and can remember what they cost back in 1969 and today those sports/muscle cars selling back then for $4K loaded vehicles have improved today are typically ten times higher today or more and my 57" Sharp on sale costs me two times more than this 70" Sharp will and my first Sony 23" 8 years ago was $1600 and today they are under $300 - now show me a car that can deliver on that type of reduction in price or even close.

If you think about it that 70" is about 70% larger than your 52" and that's dramatic and at a cost at least half of the LG 72" and even cheaper most likely if Samsungs 75" debuts based upon the way they've priced the 65". The economics of this panel are ground breaking for consumers and despite the debate on size and this supposed PROXY keep in mind there's a few generations of RPTV owners hungering large flat sizes at the prices they paid for theirs originally or less and this thing meets that equation without the fat ass and requirement narrow sweet spot.

This is great news if the PQ matches one's expectations! I simply don't accept that Panasonic is a Proxy for LCD in any way and the numbers on the wall at B&M's comparatively should make this obvious and no matter what the reviewers do to charm and swoon readers over plasma most Consumers don't agree and the numbers in Global Sales and the Plasma herd dwindling should make that obvious - RPTV owners and a consumer base desiring HT Sizes are waiting in line for this opportunity to get the size at the price that's finally become a market for many consumers versus the old days of $10K 65" panels that comprised 1% of consumers whereas $3K-$4K makes it a new consumer market segment and we paid those prices for those 52" panels 4 years ago and now we're getting 70% more screen realty and other improvements at those old prices for the 52".

Samsung 65F8000, 60D8000, 40HU6350, Panasonic 50E60 LCD's
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post #280 of 1421 Old 03-25-2011, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suzook View Post

Do you mind telling us where you are located. I wonder if West coast would see them first

HI! I am located in Kentucky. I will have more info on this sunday since i will have a list of what will actually be on the truck for this week.
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post #281 of 1421 Old 03-25-2011, 08:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caneaddict View Post

Anyone have any info on when the Sharp 735 or 935 are going to be released?

At CES they said they had no release date for 935. Hopefully it will come out around the same time as Sony 65HX929 - so I could finally decide which one I want! Or if I want both, in which case I will have to strip on the weekends or something to pay for them
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post #282 of 1421 Old 03-25-2011, 08:45 PM
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"boards flight for Kentucky" ;-)
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post #283 of 1421 Old 03-25-2011, 11:51 PM
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Spoke to a salesman at the store who checked the computer system. I could place the order and it would be shipped to the store and arrive on 04/01. That was here in TX.
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post #284 of 1421 Old 03-26-2011, 02:47 AM
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" I simply don't accept that Panasonic is a Proxy for LCD in any way and the numbers on the wall at B&M's comparatively should make this obvious...."

Until you understand why it has to be a proxy, your point here is lost on me.

The universe of people who want a flat panel TV is U. The subset that wants a big one is U(b).

Today U(b) can choose a 50 a 58 and a 65 from, say, Panasonic. (It can also choose 50 and 52 and 55 from LCD makers). If the person hates Panasonic plasmas, they will opt out so we are less with U(b)doesn't hate plasma = U(b) - U(b) hates plasma.

There is no reason to belie U(b) hates plasma has any preference for larger sizes than the overall U(b). In fact, there is reason to believe that -- if anything -- they prefer smaller screens. If they preferred larger screens, they would effort to overcome their hatred of plasmas, Panasonic, etc. That they don't means they value something else -- daytime viewing, computer-gaming, etc. -- over size.

If we merely look at U(b) doesn't hate, the relative slices of the size pie necessarily represent the relative desire of buyers, with the caveat that cost matters. It matters, but in the case of U(b) no hate, the premium for large size displays is actually quite small. You can already buy the 65 inch Panasonic for $2000 or less.

Unless someone can explain why LCD buyers -- that hate plasma -- would want larger screens on average than plasma buyers do (and that despite their desire for larger screens, they eschew plasmas) then you have a problem with this line of reasoning. I've already demonstrated that people desiring big screens should on average be more likely to gravitate toward plasma -- if you want to go big and especially affordable, you need to go plasma today.

Even if LCDs become less expensive -- a rebuttable presumption -- the notion that desire will shift toward bigger screeens flies in the face of a lot of logic. The only reason that would become truer for LCD than it is now is increased ability to buy them at favorable prices. And let's agree that it will be cheaper and easier to get a very large LCD in 2012 than it was in 2010. Let's just take that on faith. Now, you have to ask yourself why the market share of 65s vs. say 50s would shift in favor of 65s. The answer is: Other than price, there is no answer.

Picture quality of the universe on average is shrinking, not increasing. MPEG-4 compressed to hell on the Uverses of the world is not making for breathtaking television. BluRay -- while somewhat popular -- is not on its way to DVD-like success/longevity in terms of unit sales. Movie watching is gravitating to medium-quality streams.

American homes are finally shrinking slightly as well while Americans' desire to use less electricity is increasing.

It's worth getting real data on the relative sales of 65s vs. 50s in plasma. (Is it 1:10? 1:20?) But it's flat out ridiculous to claim that if it's 1:10 in plasma today it's going to be 1:5 for LCD in 2012. I promise you that no manufacturer is better on any such thing.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #285 of 1421 Old 03-26-2011, 05:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjohns1997SS View Post

I think there is a bit of moores law in automobiles, look at all three segments of the automobile industry and you will see that sports cars have never been faster, trucks more powerful, or economy cars more fuel efficient.

I'm telling you guys we will see 100" screens before we die, haven't you seen the movies

This is missing the point a bit. There is no discussion monster displays will arrive. The point is they will always be niche market, like sports cars. With one exception I can imagine: if displays become wall-paper sold in rolls. People will put them everyhwere on walls so they can watch tv in any place and any size, but also change decoration and even heat the house.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjohns1997SS View Post

I currently have a 52" and am having a hard time even going up to a 63-65" because i know i will want more right away.
I really think i need 75" to be happy for the next 3-5 years.

A pleasure to announce you will become happy this year: According to the rumors from this week Samsung Roadshow in Germany, Samsung representatives confirmed the 75" TV is defnitely coming this year, it will have product introduction at IFA Berlin, Sept.2nd.

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post #286 of 1421 Old 03-26-2011, 05:20 AM
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Product introduction could mean it won't hit the streets until end of year. I am going to bet street price is $8000
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post #287 of 1421 Old 03-26-2011, 05:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Suzook View Post

Product introduction could mean it won't hit the streets until end of year. I am going to bet street price is $8000

They tend to still have sales for the festivity season. Your price level looks reasonable now but it may depend on how Sharp will do with their 70 inchers. If they start selling them in volumes, Samsung will have to go down not to look ridiculous.

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post #288 of 1421 Old 03-26-2011, 08:21 AM
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Samsung is still at 5k retail on the 65C8000

Think they don't care about looking ridiculous
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post #289 of 1421 Old 03-26-2011, 07:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suzook View Post

Samsung is still at 5k retail on the 65C8000

Think they don't care about looking ridiculous

Which is especially true when they can't really deliver the product anyway.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #290 of 1421 Old 03-26-2011, 08:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeanSheen View Post

I've been reading this thread with great interest since my 70XBR2 came up with some issues recently.

I want a large screen but I'm done with projection. I also don't want to be an early adopter so I'm hoping to grab a 70 - 80 inch LCD in the next 3 years as the size and technology at that size become more stable. I don't want a projector as I would prefer to have light in my room and not live in a cave.

A large flat screen frees up some real estate and I have plenty of room on my back wall to go > 70.

I think the real story with large screen demand is that most people are not willing to spend the premium to this point and understandably so. At the same time, many people do not truly appreciate large screen sizes as people on this site may be prone to.

It's a big country with lots of interior space available especially on the walls where large thin panels fit perfectly. I think if price and availability converge they will come. If price, availability, and PQ converge I will buy.

I look forward to seeing my friends new 65" Panny when it comes. I'm intrigued by the LG but I'm worried that the PQ won't be there for my tastes. I'd like to make my next purchase at least a 5 year set and I've been watching this stuff long enough to know that it's probably not going to come from a first gen set.

I was under the impression that the 70 inch is based on existing quattron technology. so while this is the first generation in terms of size, the tech has been out there for a couple of years. I'm not saying there may not be issues, but I would be more concerned if these 70" sets were based on Sharp's brand new "Super-Duper, Mega Octattron" Technology. At least we have an what to expect from existing Quattron technology.

By the way Deansheen, i also have the 70XBR2. I love that set. However, we picked up a couple of Quattrons about a month ago (one being the 60" 3D, the other being the 52").

Needless to say, I haven't spent much time in front of the XBR2 lately.
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post #291 of 1421 Old 03-27-2011, 01:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Traylorc View Post

By the way Deansheen, i also have the 70XBR2. I love that set. However, we picked up a couple of Quattrons about a month ago (one being the 60" 3D, the other being the 52").

Needless to say, I haven't spent much time in front of the XBR2 lately.

In many reviews of those Quattrons with yellow supixel color reproduction were criticized since the sets miss extensive setting tools so it is impossible to correct tendency for overemphasized yellow.

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post #292 of 1421 Old 03-27-2011, 08:33 AM
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Hello,
I too have the 70XBR2 and I guess I have been one of the lucky ones to have enjoyed it with no problems. I still have a new replacement lamp in the box that I have not opened. I also await the 70" flat panels to come out. How does your 60" Quatton compare tho the XBR in PQ quality?
Thx,
Tony
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post #293 of 1421 Old 03-27-2011, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Posted by Traylorc
By the way Deansheen, i also have the 70XBR2. I love that set. However, we picked up a couple of Quattrons about a month ago (one being the 60" 3D, the other being the 52").[/QUOTE

Needless to say, I haven't spent much time in front of the XBR2 lately.
Interesting. I'm on day 2 of having my replacement 60NX810 installed that I purchased at a discount from Sony as a result of the issues with my 70XBR2 which now sits unused in the basement. So I'm in the same boat!

The viewing angle is horrible as evidenced by the link below. Fortunately I do not have that issue as my room setup precludes viewers at the side of the room.

The picture is good enough that it gives me hope for the bigger sets. I did apply settings from the settings thread that a person who owns calibration equipment posted. It still seems a bit blue to me.

I do not miss the fan noise from the XBR which was driving me crazy. Some of the included network functionality is very cool since I have refused to buy a connected Blue Ray player (being burned by HDDVD and not wanting the Netflix surcharge etc.) , Roku, and don't have a gaming system. Being able to hook up my computer as a media server and watch Netflix through the tv is great.

The bad part is that the optical out of the tv to the receiver is a bit more thin in the mids and lows than the optical out of DTV. I would not be thrilled with this set if I had paid full price for it.

But this is a thread about the future of large LCD televisions. I hope they figure this out sooner rather than later but I remain willing to wait awhile till I jump back in to a big ticket purchase on 1st gen tech. Yeah, I'm still a little chapped from my XBR2 going south so soon.

http://www.televisioninfo.com/conten...ng-Effects.htm
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post #294 of 1421 Old 03-28-2011, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by laserline1972 View Post

HI! I am located in Kentucky. I will have more info on this sunday since i will have a list of what will actually be on the truck for this week.

So, what did you find out ? Are your sets going to be on the truck ?
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post #295 of 1421 Old 03-28-2011, 11:00 PM
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Originally Posted by kb4all View Post

Spoke to a salesman at the store who checked the computer system. I could place the order and it would be shipped to the store and arrive on 04/01. That was here in TX.

Yes, but many systems show this, then when the unit does not show, it adds 2 weeks.

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post #296 of 1421 Old 03-29-2011, 07:22 AM
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Good morning to all. I have been waiting for the release of either the Sharp LC-70LE732u or the Samsung UN65D8000. I was under the impression the Sharp was due to hit last week, but I spoke with Sears this morning and they currently have NO INFO. Does anybody have anything to add? Also anything about the relesae date of the D8000 Samsung? My home theatre room is a mess and everything is on hold until a new large screen is on the wall.
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post #297 of 1421 Old 03-29-2011, 07:55 AM
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I am in the same situation. I am looking at the same two TVs and the room is on hold until they come in. I was hoping they'd arrive in time for my vacation next week, so I could tear apart some walls and get rolling on the minor renovations.
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post #298 of 1421 Old 03-29-2011, 07:58 AM
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I'm pretty sure it's been said like a dozen times these are NOT likely to be sold in stores. If you want one, you should head to a local store and order it. Pretty simple really
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post #299 of 1421 Old 03-29-2011, 08:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marky22 View Post

Good morning to all. I have been waiting for the release of either the Sharp LC-70LE732u or the Samsung UN65D8000. I was under the impression the Sharp was due to hit last week, but I spoke with Sears this morning and they currently have NO INFO. Does anybody have anything to add? Also anything about the relesae date of the D8000 Samsung? My home theatre room is a mess and everything is on hold until a new large screen is on the wall.

I think the best info we have on the Sharp is that it began to ship to some retailers last week. So far the only two people that we know of that have ordered the set are myself, and laserline1972. Laserline's is due in on the 31st, and mine on the 1st. The biq question now is, will we actually see it on or even near on-time. Laserline1972 says that he works for Sears, and that he was going to check the system on Sunday for more info. As of now we have yet to hear back from him (or her).

Can't help you with the Samsung.
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post #300 of 1421 Old 03-29-2011, 09:41 AM
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I just got off live chat with an online dealer. They tell me they have the Sharp LC-70LE732U in stock ready to ship. I just am having a hard time pulling the trigger. I really would like to see the set first. At a list price of 3200.00, I am questioning the quality for a set this big at that price. Seems way to good to be true. I'm really hoping that Sears or anybosy will get this tv and put it up for display before making a decision.
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