Official 70"+ LCD thread - Page 14 - AVS Forum
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post #391 of 1421 Old 04-01-2011, 12:15 AM
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The Sharp LC-70LE732U is up on the website with manuals etc

http://www.sharpusa.com/ForHome/Home...C70LE732U.aspx
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post #392 of 1421 Old 04-01-2011, 12:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

This is now fixed !!

Fantastic! In the manual one can see quite a few settings for color.
Now waiting for the calibration and eyeballs PQ report .

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post #393 of 1421 Old 04-01-2011, 08:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by specuvestor View Post

The reason for full array is local dimming. Otherwise it is not worth it to manufacture full array.

Just going off what some that are a little closer to the industry have said, isn't an LED display less costly to build? Now that CCFL is on its way out, is it possible that Sharp said, "we want to build a large display, what's the most cost effective way to do it and still get the performance, without the issues that edge-lit introduces". They already have some experience to draw on...wasn't the 700 from a couple years back a non local dimming full array LED? Maybe as a compromise they are using LED back lighting similar to the 700 and something similar to what Samsung is doing with algorithms on the D8000 to eek out a bit more performance.

EDIT: I have had a chance to read Chad's review....disregard the algorythm theory, I think.
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post #394 of 1421 Old 04-01-2011, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topr View Post

Just going off what some that are a little closer to the industry have said, isn't an LED display less costly to build? Now that CCFL is on its way out, is it possible that Sharp said, "we want to build a large display, what's the most cost effective way to do it and still get the performance, without the issues that edge-lit introduces". They already have some experience to draw on...wasn't the 700 from a couple years back a non local dimming full array LED? Maybe as a compromise they are using LED back lighting similar to the 700 and something similar to what Samsung is doing with algorithms on the D8000 to eek out a bit more performance.

EDIT: I have had a chance to read Chad's review....disregard the algorythm theory, I think.

The R&D baby was the XS-1 @$15K that paved the way for this and the main run smaller 700's.

Many people seemed to have forgotten about the XS1 because they were so friggin expensive.

Samsung 65F8000, 60D8000, 40HU6350, Panasonic 50E60 LCD's
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post #395 of 1421 Old 04-01-2011, 12:38 PM
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I was chatting online with a Sharp rep today and they said the LC-70LE735U will be coming out in Aug or September and is the 3D version of the LC-70LE732U. They said they have no information on the LC-70LE935U

They said the LC-70LE732U should retail for $3299 and the LC-70LE735U should retail for $4499

....just the messenger
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post #396 of 1421 Old 04-01-2011, 03:48 PM
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Looks like we might see the 75" Samsung afterall. There are many more reports from the past couple days and I am hoping that this is no hype. I am preordered the 65 however a 75 would be great. If anyone has any more news I would appreciate the feedback thanks.
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post #397 of 1421 Old 04-01-2011, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RBP View Post

I was chatting online with a Sharp rep today and they said the LC-70LE735U will be coming out in Aug or September and is the 3D version of the LC-70LE732U. They said they have no information on the LC-70LE935U

They said the LC-70LE732U should retail for $3299 and the LC-70LE735U should retail for $4499

....just the messenger

Saw the LC-70LE732U at fry's electonics in dallas today. They said they just took it out of the box. You're correct on the price, because that's exactly what they are selling it for. Black level looked good, plenty bright. There was a 65" samsung next too it that look like it was resolving a little more detail, and I could tell there was a delay in the processing. When a scene would change (they were all getting the same picture feed), the sharp would take a frame or two extra to change. I snuck into the menu, took it off of store dynamic mode, and went through and turned off a lot of the processing, which helped the delay a lot (it changed scenes with the other sets around it more consistently). It appears to have a full blown CMS (hue, sat, and brightness for each color). It also has a film mode setting, as well as a 120 motion setting. I guess this is their answer to addressing 24p de-judder vs LCD deficient motion handling, which yes-they are 2 totally different things.
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post #398 of 1421 Old 04-01-2011, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by RON82ND View Post

Looks like we might see the 75" Samsung afterall. There are many more reports from the past couple days and I am hoping that this is no hype. I am preordered the 65 however a 75 would be great. If anyone has any more news I would appreciate the feedback thanks.


What reports?
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post #399 of 1421 Old 04-01-2011, 05:10 PM
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no removable power cord
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post #400 of 1421 Old 04-01-2011, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RBP View Post

I was chatting online with a Sharp rep today and they said the LC-70LE735U will be coming out in Aug or September and is the 3D version of the LC-70LE732U. They said they have no information on the LC-70LE935U

They said the LC-70LE732U should retail for $3299 and the LC-70LE735U should retail for $4499

....just the messenger

That's bad news for any hope of reasonable 935 pricing if true.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #401 of 1421 Old 04-01-2011, 06:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RON82ND View Post

Looks like we might see the 75" Samsung afterall. There are many more reports from the past couple days and I am hoping that this is no hype. I am preordered the 65 however a 75 would be great. If anyone has any more news I would appreciate the feedback thanks.

Let me make attempt #9102349032589 at this.

First, cite the reports. Actual reports, not other meaningless posts here.

Second, they have yet to announce a 65-inch display for 2011. None has been announced. It strikes me as utterly fantastical to believe there will be a 75 inch when there is a reasonable degree of uncertainty as to whether you'll even be able to buy a 65 inch.

Third, the price of the 75 would almost certainly exceed $10,000 US. Are you still interested?

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #402 of 1421 Old 04-02-2011, 05:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topr View Post


Just going off what some that are a little closer to the industry have said, isn't an LED display less costly to build?

Nope full array was much more expensive to built hence driving sammy to invent edge lit in 2009. number of LEDs in edge lit keep decreasing due to LED shortage and forced advancement in light guide plates.

But come 2011 LED is no longer in shortage but oversupply so the price competitiveness vs CCFL may have changed, but I doubt by that much to say full array is cheaper.
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post #403 of 1421 Old 04-02-2011, 05:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by specuvestor View Post

Nope full array was much more expensive to built hence driving sammy to invent edge lit in 2009. number of LEDs in edge lit keep decreasing due to LED shortage and forced advancement in light guide plates.

But come 2011 LED is no longer in shortage but oversupply so the price competitiveness vs CCFL may have changed, but I doubt by that much to say full array is cheaper.

Edge lit with light guides are a challenging and inefficient design - light guides are typically only 20-30% efficient (light output vs. light input) and getting a uniform pattern out of the light guide in a tight package is why there are comments on flash lighting, clouding etc., - higher lumen LEDs can be used which drive cost and heat plus worsen the effect.

Direct lit (full array) is much more efficient - lower output (cost) LEDs can be used however they are still 'point sources' and optics are required to get a uniform backlight - it this case the more package depth the better. Not only for the components - but to allow more 'mixing' area between the LEDs and the optics. It would also blend the local dimming zones to avoid the banding that seemed to plague very thin local dimming full array packages (like the LG 8500 series)

I think if it wasn't for aesthics - a 6"+ deep full array set with local dimming would be amazing
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post #404 of 1421 Old 04-02-2011, 09:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by GreatGrady View Post
Edge lit with light guides are a challenging and inefficient design - light guides are typically only 20-30% efficient (light output vs. light input) and getting a uniform pattern out of the light guide in a tight package is why there are comments on flash lighting, clouding etc., - higher lumen LEDs can be used which drive cost and heat plus worsen the effect.

Direct lit (full array) is much more efficient - lower output (cost) LEDs can be used however they are still 'point sources' and optics are required to get a uniform backlight - it this case the more package depth the better. Not only for the components - but to allow more 'mixing' area between the LEDs and the optics. It would also blend the local dimming zones to avoid the banding that seemed to plague very thin local dimming full array packages (like the LG 8500 series)

I think if it wasn't for aesthics - a 6"+ deep full array set with local dimming would be amazing
All this is debatable. Lightguides obviously are less efficient than direct backlight but one needs more LEDs in direct and light diffuser with its own loss so no real efficiency gain.

One can make direct backlight thin but this requires sophisticated diffuser - really something equivalent to what Samsung achieved in the D8000.

Problem with LG banding seems to me resulting from placing LEDs in horizontal rows and not checkerboard matrix, true?

With the progress of the D8000 one may expect that full array locdim may be dying within the next 18 months. For now, Sony HX929 is on the watch list as how it will keep in comparison with the D8000. If beats it hands down, full array locdim may survive as high-end solution. If not, it will on a way out. Similar thing to what happened to locdim with RGB LEDs, it was brilliant but not offering so much as to justify it.

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post #405 of 1421 Old 04-02-2011, 10:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post
....Third, the price of the 75 would almost certainly exceed $10,000 US. Are you still interested?
This is impossible with Sharp selling full range of 70" below 5 grands this year. One can think Samsung positioning 2-3 grands above Sharp top model, which might be still saleable under the banner of 'world's biggest TV'. Or, like with the rumor about LG 72", Samsung will indeed defect squezzed by Sharp offensive.

After Katzmaier report, 65" D8000 seems to be certain. At the Samsung roadshow in Germany there were mouthfulls about planned release of 75" at IFA Berlin Sept 2nd. So no official statements but credible rumors.

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post #406 of 1421 Old 04-02-2011, 11:13 PM
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Cost on these Sets to SEARS is $2600



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Thanks Everyone, I am glad I was able to help.

Yeah I am not sure how they are making a profit on these, thats why I jumped at the opportunity. My contact in CA, didn't believe it either. She said nobody on the West Coast has them yet. Knowing that the 72 LG was pulled from U.S. release and that nobody else was making this size will really make this a hard to get item. Last November I was in Korea and got my first look at the LG 72inch pure LED LEX 9. It was for sale in one of those silly electronics stores. They wanted some astronomical amount for it like 18k or something. I took a picture of it, let me see if I can find it I will post it. This is the one slated for release from LG, but not anymore. This info was received from a source close to LG.

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post #407 of 1421 Old 04-03-2011, 01:24 AM
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Originally Posted by irkuck View Post

This is impossible with Sharp selling full range of 70" below 5 grands this year. One can think Samsung positioning 2-3 grands above Sharp top model, which might be still saleable under the banner of 'world's biggest TV'. Or, like with the rumor about LG 72", Samsung will indeed defect squezzed by Sharp offensive.

Samsung's large-screen pricing is delusional now. Not sure why you think it will change from there even with Sharp out.
Quote:


After Katzmaier report, 65" D8000 seems to be certain. At the Samsung roadshow in Germany there were mouthfulls about planned release of 75" at IFA Berlin Sept 2nd. So no official statements but credible rumors.

It seems likely, yes. Certain? Call me when it's actually on sale from Samsung. As for this mythic 75 inch. If it's announced at IFA in Sept., you certainly won't be buying one in the U.S. this year.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #408 of 1421 Old 04-03-2011, 04:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

Samsung's large-screen pricing is delusional now. Not sure why you think it will change from there even with Sharp out. It seems likely, yes. Certain? Call me when it's actually on sale from Samsung. As for this mythic 75 inch. If it's announced at IFA in Sept., you certainly won't be buying one in the U.S. this year.

It is hard to believe 75" will not be shown at IFA. But its launch as product this year is now indeed endangered by the Sharp 70". I tend to be optimistic, it will launch at IFA with price in the 8 grands range and limited edition like the last year 65". Just to keep Samsung as the manuf of the biggest LCD in the Milky Way .

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post #409 of 1421 Old 04-03-2011, 04:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

Samsung's large-screen pricing is delusional now. Not sure why you think it will change from there even with Sharp out.


It seems likely, yes. Certain? Call me when it's actually on sale from Samsung. As for this mythic 75 inch. If it's announced at IFA in Sept., you certainly won't be buying one in the U.S. this year.

Agree totally with their pricing formula being delusional and the feedback on this forum has not been good for it and attribute it to a lack of competition in LCD with 65" in 2010 and so they owned that segment and felt what the hell lets use that. I own a 55" C6400 and I really like it very much for the bargain price I got it for a secondary viewing room but what shocked me when I set it up is how cheap it seems compared to my Sony and Sharps and makes me question longetivity of the panel and of course if anyone has had to deal with Samsung support as I have with my network with several hundred of their LCD Monitors they are horrendous and nothing like my US manufacturers like Planar and HP. My point is that after buying this I could not understand why the huge MSRP and retail for that 65" - it seems ludicrous!

What I find interesting is that IFA last year and another International Trade Show in Summer 2010 Samsung announced a 70" LCD in Asia and where they hell is it? Some seem to think you can just create substrates out of thin air and of course they can do a prototype but where are they going to get motherglass to make cuts like Sharp can? I don't recall any announcement of any factory build that would accomodate that 75" to be produced in volume unless of course the 75" becomes a boutique panel that Hedge fund managers can afford but forget about the rest of us. Samsung has the resources to develop and build this TV but they cannot create substrates that size in volume without having the facility built first. There are larger panels in China but I believe their monster panels from makers like Konka are quite the opposite of the Samsung super slim panels.

If we're proved wrong then Bravo - but it's unlikely Samsung can turn on a dime and pull a volume of these at Sharp prices out of their behinds.

Samsung 65F8000, 60D8000, 40HU6350, Panasonic 50E60 LCD's
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post #410 of 1421 Old 04-03-2011, 06:02 AM
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Originally Posted by westa6969 View Post

If we're proved wrong then Bravo - but it's unlikely Samsung can turn on a dime and pull a volume of these at Sharp prices out of their behinds.

Pretty much my feeling. Sharp is in position to dominate the 70" segment, and the LC-70LE732U is a great step in that direction.

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post #411 of 1421 Old 04-03-2011, 11:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Pretty much my feeling. Sharp is in position to dominate the 70" segment, and the LC-70LE732U is a great step in that direction.
Now wonder Sharp can dominate as it runs the only 10G plant. But what is the economics behind is not that obvious. 10G plant is collosal investment and it is not clear Sharp will get return
on it.

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post #412 of 1421 Old 04-04-2011, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by irkuck View Post

Now wonder Sharp can dominate as it runs the only 10G plant. But what is the economics behind is not that obvious. 10G plant is collosal investment and it is not clear Sharp will get return
on it.

How much return do they need? Interest rates in Japan are very low.

Also I think given the earthquake the Bank of Japan is going to be printing lots of Yen to stimulate the export economy.

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post #413 of 1421 Old 04-04-2011, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by laserline1972 View Post

Cost on these Sets to SEARS is $2600

Having faced the dearth of large flat screen TV's over the years (sorry, $20K to $33K Sony 70" LCD doesn't count) I am finding this pricing info to be amazing, if not incredible. I have not been this interested in an A/V product since my first HDTV in 2001. I may wait to compare one with the full-array sets later this year (I am not interested in 3D), but if these sets are as good as the reviews I have read thus far, I am buying.
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post #414 of 1421 Old 04-04-2011, 05:34 PM
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post #415 of 1421 Old 04-04-2011, 07:26 PM
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Shocking - also available in Canada on Best Buy's site!

http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/product/...772c2f7670en02
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post #416 of 1421 Old 04-04-2011, 08:51 PM
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Cost on these Sets to SEARS is $2600

RETAIL gross margin of 10% on these pioneering sets sounds very low.

I would guess at least 20% for the 935.
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post #417 of 1421 Old 04-04-2011, 11:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ehlarson View Post

How much return do they need? Interest rates in Japan are very low.

They are practically zero. But 10G LCD plant cost many billions so the expense is significant. Nobody else besides Sharp committed to 10G, even Samsung balked. According to recent rumors Sharp wants to built another 10G plant in China.

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Also I think given the earthquake the Bank of Japan is going to be printing lots of Yen to stimulate the export economy.

Actually, with market economy on its head, the yen has strong tendency for strenghtening, printing money is just to keep the economy alive.

Sharp has a chance to improve its fortunes with the 70", the question is how deep is the market for it? With price being no essential barrier this is a problem of how many people want to have monster TVs?

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post #418 of 1421 Old 04-05-2011, 12:03 AM
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Can someone tell me if this set has flashlight and clouding problems like the samsungs and how the black level holds up in dim lighting? Thanks!
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post #419 of 1421 Old 04-05-2011, 01:14 AM
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post #420 of 1421 Old 04-05-2011, 05:03 AM
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Can someone tell me if this set has flashlight and clouding problems like the samsungs and how the black level holds up in dim lighting? Thanks!

No flashlighting, no clouding, blacks look very good. Blacks seem much better than my Samsung 55c7000.
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