Official 70"+ LCD thread - Page 9 - AVS Forum
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post #241 of 1421 Old 03-23-2011, 01:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockaway1836 View Post

Be ready to go for your lungs with either of those sets. Checkout Cleavland Plasmas website. Chis has the MSRP for the LG listed. I would expect the Samsung to be even higher.
https://clevelandplasma.com/

Here is the beauty of the market: Sharp will frst flood the market with cheap 70 inchers, others will be pressed to follow.

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post #242 of 1421 Old 03-23-2011, 05:43 AM
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Yes but bigger interest to me is that it will finally answer the question of whether there is a demand for large TVs, which has been debated in numerous threads

IMHO at $3k it's ridiculous and a classical test case for demand flexibility.
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post #243 of 1421 Old 03-23-2011, 07:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by specuvestor View Post

Yes but bigger interest to me is that it will finally answer the question of whether there is a demand for large TVs, which has been debated in numerous threads

IMHO at $3k it's ridiculous and a classical test case for demand flexibility.

I think the market for large sets includes most people that have a buyer profile similar to mine. I bought a 65" Panny in 11/06. I have been ready to buy a new set for the last 2 years due to the tech improvements (e.g black levels) since '06. However, I can't bring myself to spend $3-5K for tech improvements alone. A significant size increase has to be included as well. The Sharp 70 models are the first "main stream" models that may provide both. I think there are many people that bought 63" thru 65" plasmas/LCDs from 2005 thru 2007 that are in the same boat. Sharp, however, (IMO) has to have an effective marketing effort so that the availability of these large sizes become known to a much wider audience that just us "videophiles".
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post #244 of 1421 Old 03-23-2011, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by specuvestor View Post

Yes but bigger interest to me is that it will finally answer the question of whether there is a demand for large TVs, which has been debated in numerous threads

IMHO at $3k it's ridiculous and a classical test case for demand flexibility.

I couldn't agree more as I have been in on that debate many times making the argument that it will not be a matter of aesthetics but a matter of pricing. So we shall see...as long as supply doesn't become the issue. There needs to be enough out there to generate a little "buzz".
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post #245 of 1421 Old 03-23-2011, 08:58 AM
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I have had a couple of my customers who own 70+" DLP's say they would only consider switching to plasma or lcd when they make 70+" sets. They refuse to go down in size. Have seen similar comments in the DLP threads.

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post #246 of 1421 Old 03-23-2011, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by specuvestor View Post

Yes but bigger interest to me is that it will finally answer the question of whether there is a demand for large TVs, which has been debated in numerous threads

IMHO at $3k it's ridiculous and a classical test case for demand flexibility.

You mean a 65 inch panel is not a large TV?

Ummm, if there is a demand for 65 inch panels, there is a demand for 70 inch panels.

I wouldn't overthink this because of one or 2 people who argue that because the general public might not be ready for 70 inches, that enthusiasts certainly are, and as really large panels mature and people start to get used to them in stores, the demand will only rise.
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post #247 of 1421 Old 03-23-2011, 10:21 PM
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There's more than just one or two people's opinion.

The irony is that when this is becoming reality, I don't see Omeletpants or Davyo (except for 1 post in the beginning) on this thread, and they were the most opinionated on this issue

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post19249178

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post19985218

and a poll with >200 replies which I am not one http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post19456075
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post #248 of 1421 Old 03-24-2011, 12:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by specuvestor View Post

There's more than just one or two people's opinion.

The irony is that when this is becoming reality, I don't see Omeletpants or Davyo (except for 1 post in the beginning) on this thread, and they were the most opinionated on this issue

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post19249178

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post19985218

and a poll with >200 replies which I am not one http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post19456075

Did I hear my name mentioned

Sorry I am not up to date on this thread,, I have had some things going on with my business so I have not been on AVS as much as usual.

As far as the debate about the market for 70" panels (if this was the subject that caused my name to be mentioned),,, my opinion has not changed and if anything I think my opinion that there IS a market for bigger screen size's is supported by the fact that some 70+ sizes are soon to be released,,, even in spite of the bad economy we are now in.

Currently I have a 65" Panny plasma, even thou I like the LED look more than plasma, my current 65 incher offered the best bang for buck for screen size at this point in time,,,, but that 70" Sharp does look very tempting at 3K or under.

And my opinion that price is the main reason limiting the purchase of large screen panels is still my opinion.

When the price is do'able for the general buying population bigger screen size's will have no problem selling.

I have more than a few friends these days (that are not A/V nuts) that now have 55" panels in their homes,, a few years ago those same people thought I was nuts for having a 60" Pioneer Kuro.

As time pass's bigger screen size's are no longer viewed as too big by the general public,,, the 55" screen size is a prime example.

In a year from now 60" and 65" sizes will be just as common as todays 55 inchers,,,, and 70" sizes for the general public are not far off in the evolution of screen sizes.

Cheers
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post #249 of 1421 Old 03-24-2011, 02:11 AM
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welcome back

And with the dawn of huge TVs, 4k resolution will be viable and another "feature" for TV manufacturers to increase their selling price

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post20198930
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post #250 of 1421 Old 03-24-2011, 03:54 AM
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The irony of the cost/size discussions is that if you were here 6 years ago and you were buying a 45" Sharp (before the 57"/65" debut at $12/$20K)) it cost me $3800 discounted and all of us early adopters were paying these prices that were members here back then and today we're seeing the prospect of a monster 70" nearing $3K with features and black levels PQ that blow away those early editions.

If only our automobiles could have something similar to a Moores Law scenario. If I go Sharp 70" I want the high end model and hopefully it stays below $4500. The good news I hope is that those of us waiting for the higher end model should have plenty of feedback of the on the basic model to determine if it's worthy or whether we should consider the smaller 65" Sony/Samsung/LG.

Samsung 65F8000, 60D8000, 40HU6350, Panasonic 50E60 LCD's
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post #251 of 1421 Old 03-24-2011, 04:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Realisticating those visions of monsters in every room: 65" plasmas are available from quite a time and not so expensive. What is their penetration
rate as a percentage of all plasma sales? I would guess similar percentage may be valid for 65"LCD sales when they become popular.

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post #252 of 1421 Old 03-24-2011, 04:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irkuck View Post

Realisticating those visions of monsters in every room: 65" plasmas are available from quite a time and not so expensive. What is their penetration
rate as a percentage of all plasma sales? I would guess similar percentage may be valid for 65"LCD sales when they become popular.

Actually I dont think its a fair example,, reason being,, plasma's over the years have been losing popularity in favor of LCD.

Most consumers buy LCD's these days and for the last few years they have been the favorite of the mass'es.

The 65" Panny S2 plasma I own sold for as little as $1700.00 at times, and it has sold very well in spite of the fact that its a plasma.

If there was, or when there is,, a $1700.00 price tag for a 65" LCD they will fly off the shelfs taking into consideration that LCD is far more popular than plasma.

Even using myself as an example,, I did not buy my 65" plasma for a very long time because I prefure LCD over plasma,,, but I just got tired of waiting for a large screen LCD to come down in price.. so in the end I said screw it, and bought a 65" plasma in spite of the fact it was plasma,,, I just wanted a bigger screen size.

With that being said, I must give props to my 65" Panny plasma,,, its got a killer picture and I am not un-happy with it in any way,,,, do I wish I would have been able to get a full backlit LED for the same price I paid for my 65" plasma,,, yes I do, but until the price of large full backlit LED's comes down I will remain very happy with my current 65 incher,,,,,, and of course my 55" LED in the other room still gets my love.

Cheers
Davyo

Cheers
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post #253 of 1421 Old 03-24-2011, 05:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davyo View Post

Actually I dont think its a fair example,, reason being,, plasma's over the years have been losing popularity in favor of LCD.

Most consumers buy LCD's these days and for the last few years they have been the favorite of the mass'es.

The 65" Panny S2 plasma I own sold for as little as $1700.00 at times, and it has sold very well in spite of the fact that its a plasma.

If there was, or when there is,, a $1700.00 price tag for a 65" LCD they will fly off the shelfs taking into consideration that LCD is far more popular than plasma.
.....

Note my thinking had a hidden trick. There is no denial plasma is winding down. But if one takes the segment who buys plasma, they simply face the question what size to buy. Price is not a huge obstacle so those who buy 65" are those who are attracted to the size. Now, and here is the trick, this 65" segment may be a valid statistical sample of general population. So then there will be same percentage of those buying 65" LCD among the LCD population.
LCD population is much bigger but the 65" percentage may become the same.
So in the end when 65" LCD become affordable this does not mean people ae buying only this size.

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post #254 of 1421 Old 03-24-2011, 06:19 AM
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In your extrapolation the price dimension is missing.

50 inchers market share will not stay the same as 2010 as I think most 50" plasma will be below $1000 this Christmas, the default mass market price for US.

Neither should we expect a $3000 TV be 10% market next year. It is the trend that is more important. However if it goes to $1000 and still volume does not spike for eg the 50", then there truly is no market for them.
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post #255 of 1421 Old 03-24-2011, 08:39 AM
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I don't know if it's due to limited supply but my local Costco's can't keep the 65" Vizios in stock...there gone almost as soon as they arrive.
It's not a factor for me but if Panny made a nicer looking display aesthetically I believe they would sell even more...and although power consumption is just a small factor, especially for a 42 or 50", a 65" plasma is a power hog, relatively speaking. All of these reasons make me believe a 65" LCD will have more market penetration as pricing drops and the same can be said for the upcoming larger models.
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post #256 of 1421 Old 03-24-2011, 02:00 PM
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No offense to the "giant screen" proponents, but Irkuck is of course correct and axiomatically so.

The people buying plasmas today in fact are more likely buying them for size/price ratio as a primary consideration. Given that size comes cheaply, there are still relatively few 65-inch plasmas sold.

Why this concept is hard to grasp. I don't know. It's a fact. There is nothing preventing the guy with $2000 to $4000 from buying a 65-inch TV today. And if he wanted size first, he'd of course gravitate to plasma and you can't really even buy a 65-inch LCD right now (maybe Vizio?).

The LCD buyer, contrary to what AVS would have you believe, is not some sort of anti-plasma videophile (well, the AVS LCD buyer on average might be, I am talking actual real people). He / she is also buying a flat panel TV and might have already decided on something like 32 inches (which is certainly the top selling LCD size in the U.S. unless that's 40, which I actually doubt, but haven't seen 2010 numbers). He can already buy a 52-inch (generally) LCD from name brands for a fair price.

Nothing is going to suddenly make these people want to buy bigger TVs. It's not happening. You can type on your little keyboards that it's going to change over and over, but it won't. If it were, all plasma sales would already be 65 inch sets and all LCD sales would be 52-55 inch sets (and some 60s, which admittedly are often less affordable).

It's of course true that lower price can lead to demand increases. It's also true however that we are near the bottom of the price curve. Check out the MSRPs of all the majors' TVs for 2011. They are pretty much where they were in 2010. Not only did prices not fall 30% this year they appear to be headed for ... the same place they were in 2010.

We have speculated whether 60-inch TVs will be $1000 sometime soon. I've suggested "perhaps never" and explained why elsewhere. Regardless, what's "revolutionary" about Sharp selling a 70-inch TV for $3000 is more or less nothing other than that it now has a cost/meter-squared that is akin to smaller TVs.

If you could get your hands on the percentage of plasmas sold only by Panasonic that are 65 inches, you should be able to accurately determine what percentage of LCDs are sold in similar sizes -- once such LCDs become available again. If you want to look into the future, you can conclude that as the price curve compresses a bit (which I don't believe will really happen, but perhaps on the top end it will, certainly for non-Sharp companies), the mix will very slightly move toward larger sizes.

My guess is that Panasonic sells 5% of their plasmas at 65 and above. My guess is that over time, 65 and above will reach or slightly exceed 10% of the market. As someone pointed out (spec maybe?), that's tens of millions of TVs per year and will sustain a robust market. What it won't do is make 65 inch TVs mainstream. They never have been and nothing about price or availability has been the reason. Ten+ years into the HD area and people only want so much TV in their living room. Even I get that, as the notion of for example an 85-inch is patently silly to me (might be great for you, so enjoy if it is).

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #257 of 1421 Old 03-24-2011, 02:33 PM
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I disagree with rogo.
I want a bigger screen, but I don't want plasma - so I never even looked at Panasonics. But this fall I will be getting either Sharp 70 inch or Sony 65HX929.
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post #258 of 1421 Old 03-24-2011, 03:35 PM
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I have already seen 60" displays for under 1200.00 and closer to 1100.00, so a 1000.00 60" display is not out of the realm of possibility. 52" will soon be a thing of the past and in a couple of years 60" will be where a 55" is now...it's been trending that way since they started producing flat screens, why would that change now?
Granted, nobody knows where the size tipping point is (well not me anyway) when it comes to a manufactures point of diminishing returns as it relates to sales. Will a 65"+ display sell like 55" or 46" or a 32"...no, but that has NEVER been the debate, just that there will be a viable market for a large display.
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post #259 of 1421 Old 03-24-2011, 05:48 PM
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The above posts is why I am eagerly waiting for $3000 70" and $1000 50". We will see how much demand flexibility there is. If rogo is right then volume of 50" should not spike in the next 12 months, and $3000 70" will not be out of stock.

NB I said 6 months ago most 50" will be below $1000 this Christmas and I agree most 60" could possibly be reaching that price next Christmas. Why is $1000 so magical in US I don't know as it is anecdotal from sales figure, but I bet it will be magical in Asia too if it happen here $2000 or $3000 JUST doesn't make it but salespeople can use it to guage TREND for acceptance.

PS Give us a break... We're 3rd world countries here so we should get the cheaper stuff!!!
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post #260 of 1421 Old 03-24-2011, 08:01 PM
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I was at the local BB today and overheard the manager talking about the samsung 75" 9500. I asked him if they were going to realese this set and he said the samsung rep was in yesturday and did metion it however did not confirm it but said something was in the works. Just wanted to let people know that are interested in the samsung sets that there is still hope in the 75" and I might very well cancel my 65".
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post #261 of 1421 Old 03-24-2011, 08:43 PM
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I've been reading this thread with great interest since my 70XBR2 came up with some issues recently.

I want a large screen but I'm done with projection. I also don't want to be an early adopter so I'm hoping to grab a 70 - 80 inch LCD in the next 3 years as the size and technology at that size become more stable. I don't want a projector as I would prefer to have light in my room and not live in a cave.

A large flat screen frees up some real estate and I have plenty of room on my back wall to go > 70.

I think the real story with large screen demand is that most people are not willing to spend the premium to this point and understandably so. At the same time, many people do not truly appreciate large screen sizes as people on this site may be prone to.

It's a big country with lots of interior space available especially on the walls where large thin panels fit perfectly. I think if price and availability converge they will come. If price, availability, and PQ converge I will buy.

I look forward to seeing my friends new 65" Panny when it comes. I'm intrigued by the LG but I'm worried that the PQ won't be there for my tastes. I'd like to make my next purchase at least a 5 year set and I've been watching this stuff long enough to know that it's probably not going to come from a first gen set.
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post #262 of 1421 Old 03-24-2011, 08:50 PM
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Off topic but interesting to see with the economy in the tank the last few years we are still throwing big money on purchases. Yes that's the nature of us avs people but I hope we don't soon forget the ills of the last few years and start gluttony all over again. Ok with that out of the way release the supply of 70 inchers damn it!!!
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post #263 of 1421 Old 03-24-2011, 08:58 PM
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I will be able to tell you for sure if these will be out on the 28th. I ordered 2 of these from my local Sears 3 weeks ago, they had them on sale for 2,979.99 plus i am a employee i got a extra 10% off. I prepaid for 2 of them, and they show a in store date of 3/28. I checked the arrival date today if someone where to place another order for one and it shows the 31st for in store arrival.
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post #264 of 1421 Old 03-24-2011, 09:05 PM
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Do you mind telling us where you are located. I wonder if West coast would see them first
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post #265 of 1421 Old 03-25-2011, 12:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vladi123456 View Post

I disagree with rogo.
I want a bigger screen, but I don't want plasma - so I never even looked at Panasonics. But this fall I will be getting either Sharp 70 inch or Sony 65HX929.

Think again: you belong to the LCD crowd and you were not buying monster LCD glass until now since it was not available/to expensive/low quality/whatever. This was not the case for the plasma crowd: there people had choice and some of them bought monsters. Those plasma people who bought monsters must be attracted to them and it is some percentage of the overall plasma population.

The argument is that the percentage of those attracted to monsters is valid for the population as a whole and the plasma crowd is a valid statistical sample of the population. It follows then that the same percentage of attracted to monsters will be for the LCD crowd. And you are a member of this segment.

The size of the LCD population is of course much bigger than plasma. So there will be tremendously more monster LCD units sold than plasma. But in percentages it might be the same.

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post #266 of 1421 Old 03-25-2011, 01:36 AM
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Looks like they are on the way
LL
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post #267 of 1421 Old 03-25-2011, 03:01 AM
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^^Looks like it's no April's Fool joke Do let us know how's the PQ. At a size like this not surprise any imperfection will become very obvious

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockaway1836 View Post

My local store has been told that they won't be getting any in at all. So, I just said to Hell with it and ordered one. They tell me it will be here on the 1st of April. We shall see.

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post #268 of 1421 Old 03-25-2011, 03:27 AM
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Irkuck, again precisely.

Vladi, basically what irkuck says shows your personal preference is not the issue. It's the proxy factor. And while I think all of us agree that size tends to gravity up >a bit< over time, with cost being the main driver, the Panasonic example almost certainly represents a very good proxy for the market as a whole (especially because it automatically excludes people buying 32-inch TVs.)

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #269 of 1421 Old 03-25-2011, 05:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by specuvestor View Post

^^Looks like it's no April's Fool joke Do let us know how's the PQ. At a size like this not surprise any imperfection will become very obvious

Will do. Upon seeing that pic, I think there is a very good chance that I will have the TV on time or even a little early. Fingers crossed. Having it in place for The Yankee opener would be a nice bonus.
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post #270 of 1421 Old 03-25-2011, 05:36 AM
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Rock where was that picture taken?
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Reply LCD Flat Panel Displays

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Lg Lz 9700 72 Inch Led Display , Sharp Lc 70le732u Aquos 70 1080p Led Hdtv , Lcd Hdtv , Displays , Sharp Aquos , Lg , Sharp
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